smash 64, better than brawl?

[A2ZOMG]

Firstoff, people here are blowing things I'm saying out of proportion.

I came here because this topic happens to ask if Smash 64 is better than Brawl. I happened to have played all three Smash games a lot (Brawl moreso).

Go figure. People may have differing opinions y'know. You ask this in the Brawl forums, you will likely get different answers (hell, last time Gimpyfish compared all three I recall he said it was Melee>Brawl>64, said so somewhere in topic called "Sakurai does not want Smash to be a competitive franchise" or something). Honestly I thought this was a great place to discuss my thoughts on both games, since I'd rather not really repost this topic in the Brawl forums where things get lost. But whatever I should have figured that there are also more people here who like 64 more than Brawl, which is fine with me. I just have posted topics in the Brawl forums, and have gotten them completely overwhelmed by other crap, so eh.

Just to let you know, I completely ignored what I consider more useless advanced techs, LIKE the pivot grab, when I was making my arguments.

The advanced techs I mentioned actually give real mobility options that 64 can't even come close to. Of course, Melee still beats Brawl even then, but that wasn't what I was getting at. But if you really want to tell me that this other technique I mentioned like the QAC or whatnot is somehow useless, you could have told me so and I probably would have listened and if it sounded good then great. But whatever, people either don't know of some of these techniques char specific or not, or they are too lazy (like me sometimes) to really bring up everything they want to. You tell me what's going on then?

Also, I wasn't trying to say Brawl's 1 vs 1 mode was more fun than 64's. Rather I was saying neither was really any better than the other on the basis of technicailties I could recall in both games. Anyone who said that I was saying Brawl's vs system was clearly better than 64 was blowing things out of context. Now I did try to explain why I feel Brawl's extra features are overall better, but that is a completely different story.

And Brawl has quite a few very effective and consistent combos, regardless of what you may think. These combos are actually why some characters are doing extremely well in tourneys, so it's misleading to say that they don't exist.

Also, while I'm doing my best to avoid biases of what I consider more "fun", I can count a number of "arguments" against me that argue this whatnot is more "fun".

Honestly, I was disappointed by the Brawl forums, but these forums aren't acting much more mature. Apparently people here simply expected every absolute right answer to be the one favoring their favorite game (64 predominately in these forums). Maybe I'm just much more tolerant than most people, but I think the rules encourage that by default. <<

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

yes...
WAY better then brawl. imo

 

[Best101]

Also, while I'm doing my best to avoid biases of what I consider more "fun", I can count a number of "arguments" against me that argue this whatnot is more "fun".

What do you consider fun a Smash game? This could be the point that could this whole argument .

What I liked about the series in the first place is the ability to pull of combos that look awesome (both Melee and Smash64 did this very well). I also love the speed of Melee. Before I got that game I was always saying to my friends that I always disliked how slow Smash64 was and how it was limiting my skills (I didn't know about any advance techniques at the time. I was like 9 or 10 lol). Melee brought more speed and freedom to go as fast you like and that's pretty much the reason why I like Melee more than 64. And with advance techniques Melee is just blinding fast. So fast that someone who doesn't know anything about it will have no idea what's really happening on the screen. 3 or 4 months of my time with Melee was playing normally with items, all stages, and 1-player mode, but 5 years was spent in one vs. one matches against friends or just computers honing my skills.

Now Brawl would be awesome if it didn't cater to defensive players, and the campers. 3 stock matches on Brawl lasts up 7 or 8 minutes. Combos are gone and I'm not talking about chain grabbing into two hitters. I never did like chain grabbing even in Melee. An example of one of Brawl's chain grab combos is liike with Falco, you chaingrab someone 3 or 4 times and finish it with a Dash Attack cancel to Usmash. I don't like how in Brawl the only way you can actually combo is with chaingrabbing and I don't like how most or all combos are just 2 hitters. And the sad thing is that there aren't very many of those.
They also slowed the gameplay down significantly, to where Smash64 is a little faster than Brawl. The slowed down gameplay minus the funny sound effects from Smash64 makes comboing or just pulling moves off in Brawl much less impressive. Why were they trying fix something that wasn't broken in the first place, or maybe they were trying to break the awesomeness that was Melee.
And the evening the playing field attitude that was implented in Brawl doesn't make the game any better. Now I'm forced to take Smash Balls off the item list because the one player that sucks balls gets Pity FS everytime he respawns, plus the other Smash Balls that spawns randomly across the stage. It's not evening the playing field, it's unfair and ruins gameplay for me. You don't see the NBA crippling some of the best Basketball teams so that the sorriest teams in the league can have a chance.

Those are only a few reasons why I like the Smash Bros series in general before Brawl. I also added a few other reasons why I dislike Brawl below the others. It's like Brawl had tried to take out all of that out which I liked about Smash Bros. All of is my opinion so you don't have to worry about countering anything

Why is that you like the Smash Bros series? It may explain why we may prefer one game over another.

 

[Superstar]

Well, by more aerial mobility I was just remembering the comment that I believe Sakurai said about Brawl being more aerial, but with the new airdodge and low hitstun most combat is grounded. In 64 and Melee [moreso 64] I tend to take to the skies more often [mostly to attempt a combo]. That's just what I meant.

In Brawl the mobility doesn't really mean much, the new shield makes the ground mobility a moot point [not as influential], and the airdodge means that even though aerial options are greater than 64, you have less reason to attempt an aerial or even go in the air. Melee beats them both flat out in mobility, like you said.

Most combos I see in Brawl are more grounded. Melee and 64 used more launchers to continue a combo, so maybe that's what makes Brawl a bit more boring to watch.

Also, did Gimpyfish ever try 64 competitively? Just wondering.

 

[Zantetsu]

hell, last time Gimpyfish compared all three I recall he said it was Melee>Brawl>64, said so somewhere in topic called "Sakurai does not want Smash to be a competitive franchise" or something

Lol and didn't gimpyfish get last place at FC-Diamond's SSB64 Tournament? People treat him like a god more then they do Isai nowadays.

Don't get me wrong, I think gimpyfish is a cool guy and doesn't afraid of anything but he's still... Anything he says, people agree with it. Imo it's stupid and people need to stop sucking up to him.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Hmm, lemee think here for a minute.
N64 has 12 characters
Brawl has 35 characters

N64 has 8 stages
Brawl has 41 stages + stage builder

N64 has only 1 song per stage
Brawl has tons of songs per stage

I'd rather have the one with the more stuff yea.

 

[Fireblaster]

Hmm, lemee think here for a minute.
N64 has 12 characters
Brawl has 35 characters

N64 has 8 stages
Brawl has 41 stages + stage builder

N64 has only 1 song per stage
Brawl has tons of songs per stage

I'd rather have the one with the more stuff yea.

Hmm Let me think about this

N64 has 11 characters that can combo well
Brawl has like 3 or 4 that can combo sometimes

N64 has 9 stages with very little gimmicks, only one of which kills you without high damage
Brawl?... Not touching that gimmick crap
And Stage Builder sucks ***. There's like no freedom and almost no potential, too many limits

N64: Wide variety of tactics and play styles for each character that can be used at high level of play
Brawl: Snake Ftilt, chaingrabs, ice climbers grab death combos, chaingrabs, Snake Ftilt...

I'll take the one that's not gimmicky and slow and boring and monotonous

 

[A2ZOMG]

What do you consider fun a Smash game? This could be the point that could this whole argument .

You can fight, you can move around a lot more than you can in most fighting games so positioning has much more depth, and even if the game isn't persay balanced, you have many characters. One thing that helps them do things much differently is because they aren't bound into a focused fighting stance (facing the other, extremely limited jumping, yeah. That's your typical fighter). However I don't like Melee as much because my reflexes aren't top notch nor is my practice level. I like 64 more than Melee despite the fewer options since it's a fair bit less demanding, and similarly I like Brawl more than Melee. I know, I'm probably a pretty terrible player.

What I liked about the series in the first place is the ability to pull of combos that look awesome (both Melee and Smash64 did this very well). I also love the speed of Melee. Before I got that game I was always saying to my friends that I always disliked how slow Smash64 was and how it was limiting my skills (I didn't know about any advance techniques at the time. I was like 9 or 10 lol). Melee brought more speed and freedom to go as fast you like and that's pretty much the reason why I like Melee more than 64. And with advance techniques Melee is just blinding fast. So fast that someone who doesn't know anything about it will have no idea what's really happening on the screen. 3 or 4 months of my time with Melee was playing normally with items, all stages, and 1-player mode, but 5 years was spent in one vs. one matches against friends or just computers honing my skills.

Dun get me wrong, combos aren't bad at to have lol. I admit Brawl lacks in combos. And what's sad is that actually didn't help to balance the game. At least the way they were going for. When you look at the combos that do exist, yeah. I myself was never extremely combo oriented, so that's also part of the reason why I actually prefer Brawl over the others. <<

Now Brawl would be awesome if it didn't cater to defensive players, and the campers. 3 stock matches on Brawl lasts up 7 or 8 minutes. Combos are gone and I'm not talking about chain grabbing into two hitters. I never did like chain grabbing even in Melee. An example of one of Brawl's chain grab combos is liike with Falco, you chaingrab someone 3 or 4 times and finish it with a Dash Attack cancel to Usmash. I don't like how in Brawl the only way you can actually combo is with chaingrabbing and I don't like how most or all combos are just 2 hitters. And the sad thing is that there aren't very many of those.

Yeah, camping is kinda lame in Brawl. I'll point out that good combos outside of chaingrabbing exist, since even in Brawl you can still combo from weaker attacks into other things, or occasionally you'll have something ridiculous like an autocancelable meteor smash that induces a lot of hitstun like Falcon's or Ganondorf's. No arguments though that combos are lacking in Brawl though.

They also slowed the gameplay down significantly, to where Smash64 is a little faster than Brawl. The slowed down gameplay minus the funny sound effects from Smash64 makes comboing or just pulling moves off in Brawl much less impressive. Why were they trying fix something that wasn't broken in the first place, or maybe they were trying to break the awesomeness that was Melee.

Well I guess in terms of offense yes, Brawl really can't compare to most other fighting games. The reason everything was "fixed" was because Melee was unbalanced, except that the developers failed miserably at unbalancing the game. Sad huh? Honestly though even though the defense system is a little too overbuffed in Brawl, it's one thing I hold to that 64 doesn't have. 64 you can't powershield = very few counterattacks (also another thing I have mentioned I do not like about 64 is the grab system). Brawl and Melee you can (and you have the three types of dodges to perform), which allows many counterattack options, assuming you have better reflexes than mine though, but for me pulling off a counterattack feels reeeeal good. =P

And the evening the playing field attitude that was implented in Brawl doesn't make the game any better. Now I'm forced to take Smash Balls off the item list because the one player that sucks balls gets Pity FS everytime he respawns, plus the other Smash Balls that spawns randomly across the stage. It's not evening the playing field, it's unfair and ruins gameplay for me. You don't see the NBA crippling some of the best Basketball teams so that the sorriest teams in the league can have a chance.

LMAO. This is why I pick guys like G&W in Brawl. Since he's pretty much the best character in FFAs, but hardly anyone I know really uses him, or knows how to use him well.

Those are only a few reasons why I like the Smash Bros series in general before Brawl. I also added a few other reasons why I dislike Brawl below the others. It's like Brawl had tried to take out all of that out which I liked about Smash Bros. All of is my opinion so you don't have to worry about countering anything

Hey I understand people like you completely, but against all logical reasoning that Melee is obviously the best, my favorite is Brawl. XD

Why is that you like the Smash Bros series? It may explain why we may prefer one game over another.

I'll add here, it's a fun topic to discuss in any of the games since in any one of them there are many small details that you can pick on. You can invite a lot of friends over to play. There's a lot of characters I associate with since I'm a big Nintendo nerd.

I feel like adding, my favorite actual genre of games is platformers if I recall, so that also might explain more why I like Smash.

EDIT:

Hmm Let me think about this

N64 has 11 characters that can combo well
Brawl has like 3 or 4 that can combo sometimes

N64 has 9 stages with very little gimmicks, only one of which kills you without high damage
Brawl?... Not touching that gimmick crap
And Stage Builder sucks ***. There's like no freedom and almost no potential, too many limits

N64: Wide variety of tactics and play styles for each character that can be used at high level of play
Brawl: Snake Ftilt, chaingrabs, ice climbers grab death combos, chaingrabs, Snake Ftilt...

I'll take the one that's not gimmicky and slow and boring and monotonous

Just a heads up, the reason why 64 is unbalanced btw is because actually only 3 characters combo well for the standards of that game. 64 is extremely basic that way. As 5150 said, a character could be easily graded by their moveset alone.

Hmmm...N64 does not have a single stage truly without gimmicks. In Brawl, you have at least three that don't have gimmicks at all.

Yea stage builder sucks though.

In Brawl you actually have more clear cut counterpicks against the top tier since Snake is easily comboed and camped and meteored, but Metaknight (better than Snake overall) loses to Snake's grenade game, and G&W loses to those two slightly and Toon Link but does way better against most other characters. It's because there are clearer character types in Brawl. The main bad thing about Brawl in terms of metagame though is just that the bottom tier characters are significantly worse.

ICs can't get grab combos easily. Ask Hylian. IIRC, he won a tourney with ICs WITHOUT doing that broken CG crap.

Brawl is slow yes, but far from gimmicky and boring. Also Smash has never been montonous, not even in Brawl. Some people even now defy the Brawl tiers as we speak, while the only person famous for defying 64 tiers was Isai.

 

[Ori_bro]

dont care like them all equally

 

[4 Aces]

Melee>Smash64>Brawl. That's the order I like them in. Brawl's a good game, but it's just not nearly as fun as Melee.

 

[Tyser]

Is this a serious thread? Im pretty sure Brawl is on the bottom of the barrel out of every fighting game out there. Only newbs who dont know what skill is like Brawl. End of discussion.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Is this a serious thread? Im pretty sure Brawl is on the bottom of the barrel out of every fighting game out there. Only newbs who dont know what skill is like Brawl. End of discussion.

*points you to Azen*

He likes Brawl competitively more than Melee. XD

I'm a lil too lazy to search his posts right now but he srsly said so somewhere.

And no rly, Brawl is like way better than most really ancient stuff out there since it isn't actually depthless lololololol. Yeah the fact it's worse than Melee is plain pathetic, but it isn't close to outright horrible.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

Just a heads up, the reason why 64 is unbalanced btw is because actually only 3 characters combo well for the standards of that game. 64 is extremely basic that way.

your dumb if you think that.

 

[A2ZOMG]

your dumb if you think that.

I wasn't the one who thought that. I actually read up stuff other people talk about.

Smash bros 64

This game is VERY basic. The entire game can be summarized down to two basic ideas.

#1 The characters are roughly the same in terms of movement (due to same fall speed and near same running speed), but their moves are different.
#2 There is nearly 0 DI, so a character's move-set can be ranked very accurately in terms of worth based on what combos the character possess due to that move-set.

This translated to a tier list that was very polarized. Kirby/Pikachu were quite clearly amazing while characters like link and dk were quite clearly terrible. This is all due to the only major difference being move-set. Although isai was able to make all of the characters amazing with platform cancelling no one else has even come close to what hes able to do.

As you were saying?

 

[SmashThugZ]

Wow, when was that posted? Feels like 2001.
They don't have the same fall speed; some fall faster than others.
And they have different running speeds too.
And there is DI; just cause Mister 5150 can't execute it doesn't mean there isn't DI.
And saying how good a character is due to their "move-set" is pretty meaningless.
Each character has his/her own signature moves, let it be jabbing, smashing, special attacks.

So your excuse for this is "I read up stuff other people talk about". Well, if their "stuff" is wrong, and you're trying to use it, then you're wrong too.
And besides, you're not even putting up much of an argument if you're not even going to use your own words for it.

And earlier in the posts, you mentioned something about Smash 64 having only like 2 advanced techniques such as DJC and dashdancing for movement.
Z canceling is a super good technique so that you can have much faster movement due to the nullifying of aerials.

 

[Fireblaster]

I wasn't the one who thought that. I actually read up stuff other people talk about.

As you were saying?

That guy doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about. DK and Link can combo pretty **** well and their movesets are good. DK can juggle a lot of characters into death pretty **** well with a platform. Link also has one of the best movesets in the game, having huge disjointed hitboxes that last long and spammable projectiles that really annoy the hell out of someone and can even be used in combos, the only reason he's low is because of his bad recovery. 5150 sounds like he thinks he knows everything about ssb64 just because he saw an Isai combo video or something.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Except DK is low tier, and Link is bottom tier.

And honestly I'm pretty sure DK's moveset is really terrible. If he doesn't have a platform to save himself with he can't combo **** and his aerials are fairly easily punished since they lag a lot in the air if he doesn't get a platform to Z-cancel on. The one thing that's truly very good about him is his grab range and throw strength, and that's where it pretty much stops unless you're Isai.

Similar **** with Link and his moveset aside from how he's also much worse at recovering. His projectile game is just ok, but he has a lot of trouble following up into stuff with his projectiles compared to other characters that have better projectiles, like Pikachu and Mario or even Fox who can SHL. Again his moves lag a lot if he doesn't have a platform to save himself with and his aerials rarely ever combo into anything without platforms. Worse, Link doesn't have any aerial spikes, and he actually has a grab that sucks (comes out too slowly, and has too much ending lag. Outweighs benefits of long range).

Also for the most part these two characters generally have a lot of high knockback aerials, and that's a bad thing since that makes it harder to stay in combo range. At least a character like Ness can spam 3 D-airs a second with DJC, but DK can't.

Also, keep in mind there is a difference in being able to do good **** in a game and actually being good. In 64 all the good **** is only better the higher you go up in terms of combo reliability, damage output, and finishing options. It's pretty obvious IMO when you look at the combos Pika, Kirby, and Ness have. It's like Isai takes Kirby, and there are like no platforms nearby on the left side of Hyrule but he can still 0 to death. When he takes Link, he needs to abuse a ****load of platforms on Dream Land and even then you can clearly tell that there are many more frames where the enemy isn't being hit.

 

[Blackshadow]

A2ZOMG, you honestly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Seriously.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Well I'm listening. If you really know something that I should know, say it. I actually listen to good players if THEY know what they are talking about. Seriously.<<

Honestly if I'm that wrong, you should be able to point out something extremely obvious...But really how is the value of a character totally not based on combo options from attacks? I mean sure if you have a platform conveniently in front of you you'll be able to combo whatever since Z-canceling is lagless, but what if that isn't the case?

 

[Surri-Sama]

Well I'm listening. If you really know something that I should know, say it. I actually listen to good players if THEY know what they are talking about. Seriously. <<

You ignore the obvious so why would anyone bother to explain it to you, FireBlaster has a strong way of telling you your wrong, but he is right...yet you ignore him (and don’t say you don’t because every point he brings up you shoot down with something we already fully understand, and realize it has nothing to do with what he said)

I mean sure if you have a platform conveniently in front of you you'll be able to combo whatever since Z-canceling is legless, but what if that isn't the case

Are you talking about Smash64 requiring platforms to do combos?? see this is EXACTLY the reason i only give you smart *** remarks to the stupid **** you say, you have NEVER played SERIOUS Smash64 ...if you ever did you’d know how foolish you sound right now.

I’m not trying to put brawl down, I enjoy the game fully (not on a competitive level but that’s just imo) I play both Smash64 and Melee competitively and have respect for all of them, but you...you need to stop trying to present Bias facts, based off YOUR opinions, seriously STOP!

And btw unlike Fireblaster I wont come back here to argue with you about this, I, and everyone who knows anything about any of the Smash games, knows your a bias troll, go back to the brawl boards!!!

 

[A2ZOMG]

Whut so 5150 is wrong? Blargh.

I dun say I actually am the smartest player and I'll say what I know. I'm really not trying to insult anyone when I go on long winded rants about whatever to say why I think they're wrong (count the number of time's I've called anyone stupid in this thread, I avoid doing that stuff. Seriously). Sorry if any of you feel insulted. I'm out here for the same reason most people are, to discuss the games, and I guess I'll wait for Fireblaster since you say he knows his **** and will talk about it. Too bad from what I get from these forums most people won't go on long winded rants to help a guy out. >>

Since I rarely ever play games as you see I try my best to base my opinions off players that seem to know a thing, but eh, doesn't always work.

 

[Zema]

No. It is not better than Brawl.

 

[chili]

I seem to like all of them equally.

SSB64 is the best for just messing around with friends.
SSBM is the best for serious play.
SSBB is in between.

That's how I feel. Whichever game I like most at a certain time is my favorite at that time.

 

[Zantetsu]

Hmm, lemee think here for a minute.
N64 has 12 characters
Brawl has 35 characters

N64 has 8 stages
Brawl has 41 stages + stage builder

N64 has only 1 song per stage
Brawl has tons of songs per stage

I'd rather have the one with the more stuff yea.

Wow you have to be kidding...

You like brawl more because of how much "stuff" it has? So I'm guessing your favorite game of all time is mugen since all the characters and stages are endless, right?

I seem to like all of them equally.

SSB64 is the best for just messing around with friends.
SSBM is the best for serious play.
SSBB is in between.

That's how I feel. Whichever game I like most at a certain time is my favorite at that time.

What are you on? You got brawl and 64 mixed up badly. Explain how SSBB has serious play and ssb64 doesn't.

No. It is not better than Brawl.

If your just going to browse the index of smashboards, look at the threads that are on top of forums, open them up and just post your reply without even giving a reason then you shouldn't even belong hear. I'm the one posting the shortest responses in this thread but at least I have logical reasons behind things. Back up "why" you think brawl is better because I'm really interested in seeing how you "think" it is.

 

[Mr. Rogu]

definitely. 64 is way better than brawl

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

I would like to explain how I think ssb64 is better, but I'd rather not make an essay about it

 

[cemo]

oh boomer.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I would like to explain how I think ssb64 is better, but I'd rather not make an essay about it

If you're on the computer already, I really don't see what's stopping you from explaining in depth why you think Smash 64 is better than Brawl. After all I'll read that, if anyone. <<

 

[aequitas.veritas]

the first one of the trilogy is always the best.

i own and love brawl, and never got into melee or the wierd wavedashing tactics, but good ol 64 is so classic. everyone knows it, everyone plays it, everyone thinks theyre good so its easy to find people to play, and not everyone is good, so its fun to shut them down haha.

if you asked this in the brawl boards though, people would laugh at you. (i may even join in) some characters are broken and you cant get around that. some characters suck. but i think there is wayyyy more tech skill.

 

[Zantetsu]

If you're on the computer already, I really don't see what's stopping you from explaining in depth why you think Smash 64 is better than Brawl. After all I'll read that, if anyone. <<

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV1XQHi5j8o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA86hxe-vDc

See the difference?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah, you have insane 0 to death combos in 64. You don't in Brawl.

Honestly I'm not a fan of 0 to death combos, and I know I'm not that good, but it's my opinion that a lot of these combos are fairly easy when I can pull off a few of these combos myself occasionally and not much can be done to avoid it since DI is less prominent and air dodging doesn't exist. But eh, I can see why people like the combos of 64.

In 64 apparently Z canceling is a fair bit easier than L-canceling, but unlike L-canceling it cuts ALL attack landing lag as opposed to half, which is sorta ******** and defeats the purpose of landing lag. Melee has it best where you need more precise timing to L-cancel, and it just cuts half the landing lag. Now in Brawl you have varying amounts of landing lag, but a few aerial attacks can be autocanceled, which is harder to perform than L-canceling, but adds to the depth of aerial games better than 64's linear Z-canceling system. I guess yeah you're not pressing a button right before you land on the ground, but it's smarter this way IMO.

 

[aequitas.veritas]

...
" and I know I'm not that good"

"I can see why people like the combos of 64."
...

nicely done. step one. admiting that you suck.

In 64 apparently Z canceling is a fair bit easier than L-canceling,

1. no its not
2. try to stay on topic, its 64 and BRAWL were comparing, and BRAWL has none of these techs.

a few aerial attacks can be autocanceled, which is harder to perform than L-canceling,

1.wrong. try again.
2. wait , youre right. letting an attack end before you hit the ground is much harder than performing a tech to make it end.

but adds to the depth of aerial games better than 64's linear Z-canceling system.

how? ohhhh i see. The way TRIPPING adds depth to the dashing game! you're totally right!

but it's smarter this way IMO.

This, sir is the smartest thing you've said thus far. the "IMO" allows you to keep your own opinion when you cant come up with logical statements to prove your argument fact.

Keep in mind, you can still be flamed for your opinion.

 

[CKaiser]

At least this guy knows something...

The combo indeed technically can't be escaped since the air dodge has lag, and it's the only thing you could have done to attempt to avoid the Knee. There is a lot of other stuff that does count as combo by that principle.

I'm not convincing anyone Brawl is better than 64 btw. I'm explaining why I think its 1 vs 1 gameplay is about even if different. Options in both games are completely different, and in 64 there is combos, and in Brawl there is defense and mobility.

Holy hell... what's the falcon going to do? hang in the air until the air dodge is done and then throw out another one? what about DI to the side? the falcon can't exactly hang in the air for like 3 months. If he tried to throw a knee, missed because of the airdodge, then fell back to the ground, jumped again and tried to knee again, the other person would already be shielded on the ground. Or what about JUMPING? he could just JUMP at the peak, getting out of falcon's range. NOT an inescapable combo.

 

[A2ZOMG]

1. no its not

If I recall it's like a 20 frame gap compared to a 7 frame gap or so? That's a huge difference.

1.wrong. try again.
2. wait , youre right. letting an attack end before you hit the ground is much harder than performing a tech to make it end.

Not all characters in Brawl can SH all aerials without having lag. You take Snake, Falcon, and Ganondorf, you need to press the jump and attack button very quickly to autocancel any aerials.

Melee you have 7 frames to L-cancel anything, but at least it's not super ******** in getting rid of all of the lag, which is kinda lame. 64 you have this whut 20 frame gap to Z-cancel ALL lag? It's kinda stupid but whatever.

how? ohhhh i see. The way TRIPPING adds depth to the dashing game! you're totally right!

Now this statement is completely irrelevant. I cannot understand the point of this at all and what it has to do with my statements on landing lag. Because landing lag is actually an issue in Melee and Brawl, you have to choose aerial attacks carefully and/or execute them in a precise manner to avoid the punishable lag. In 64 the window to make aerials ridiculously low lag is much larger.

This, sir is the smartest thing you've said thus far. the "IMO" allows you to keep your own opinion when you cant come up with logical statements to prove your argument fact.

Keep in mind, you can still be flamed for your opinion.

Actually I'm waiting for you to come up with reasonable logical counters. I have my reasons for thinking what I think, and I do actually listen to people that have good reasons to counter mine.

Which unlike people who have replied to me earlier, you don't have any of in your post.

Holy hell... what's the falcon going to do? hang in the air until the air dodge is done and then throw out another one? what about DI to the side? the falcon can't exactly hang in the air for like 3 months. If he tried to throw a knee, missed because of the airdodge, then fell back to the ground, jumped again and tried to knee again, the other person would already be shielded on the ground. Or what about JUMPING? he could just JUMP at the peak, getting out of falcon's range. NOT an inescapable combo.

You can DI to make things hard for Falcon yes. If Falcon misses the Knee, IIRC he probably might be in range to still U-air. However you CANNOT jump to escape the combo. It has been proven that IASA frames for actions you can perform out of hitstun only apply to air dodging.

 

[Zantetsu]

Yeah, you have insane 0 to death combos in 64. You don't in Brawl.

Honestly I'm not a fan of 0 to death combos, and I know I'm not that good, but it's my opinion that a lot of these combos are fairly easy when I can pull off a few of these combos myself occasionally and not much can be done to avoid it since DI is less prominent and air dodging doesn't exist. But eh, I can see why people like the combos of 64.

Lol

Your not so great at the game, therefor you get comboed and you don't like it because you can't smash di :D

Seriously though. Using smash DI can actually screw someones combo up quite badly if they don't know what there doing.

 

[CKaiser]

Autocanceling is hardly more difficult than L-canceling. Do you even know about hitstun? If you hit a shield you have to adjust your L-cancel timing, therefore you have to be watching whether or not you are connecting with the attack, auto canceling you just hit two buttons in quick succession. also, fine you air dodge then jump, escaped

 

[A2ZOMG]

Lol

Your not so great at the game, therefor you get comboed and you don't like it because you can't smash di :D

Seriously though. Using smash DI can actually screw someones combo up quite badly if they don't know what there doing.

I can Smash DI in 64 and Brawl. So much hitstun unlike in Melee.

I like it more in Melee and Brawl where you can air dodge though.

 

[Zantetsu]

I can Smash DI in 64 and Brawl. So much hitstun unlike in Melee.

I like it more in Melee and Brawl where you can air dodge though.

...Your reasons why?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Because I'm not a fan of games with fairly easy and reliable 0 to death combos. I mean it's funny, I've done stuff like that on an emulator (keyboard and all yes. Not necessarily 0 to death, but seriously combos can get really insane in 64 from what little I've seen and done).

Melee I mean yeah, you can 0 to death but it's a lot harder because of the larger number of things that could happen (and I can barely combo **** in Melee because my technical skill is bad). Brawl the air dodging system is a little too good, but it's closer to what I prefer since it avoids easy and reliable 0 to death combos for the most part (only problem left is rly lame stuff like Marth's CG on Ness which just simply should be banned).

EDIT: And yeah I know about hitstun. I suck and I try to L-cancel stuff and hit someone's shield, and of course it screws me up. XD

Likewise for laggy aerials in Brawl, you have to know exactly how high you are in the air before using some of these aerials over an air dodge since a small difference in spacing can make you pay dearly in lag, or make you w1n.

 

[Zantetsu]

I seriously don't see how you think a game without combos is better then a game with broken combos =\