Smash 4 Speculation Chart [WE UPDATE NOW]

[Neanderthal]

There is also very strong support for the idea of a Tales character, but they can't agree on who it should be.

Kind of like Fire Emblem here

 

[ChronoBound]

Think honestly to yourself how much of that is actually true. I would say Marth is iconic but I would not give any other character a significantly larger claim to that title when its split between many. Saying Roy is a revolutionary character above others is just biased and untrue.

Roy is still one of the most recognizable faces for Fire Emblem. The only other two characters that compare are Marth and Ike. The popularity of Ike and Roy in the West from Smash Bros. is a reason why the Red vs. Blue arc (the armies of Elibe and Magvel led by Roy and the armies of Tellius led by Ike) got localized as "Smash Brethren".

Also, in a Nintendo Direct (the one in late Feburary/early March), when describing the latest DLC chapter (the one where you get Micaiah), Bill Trinen (the head of localization at NOA) referred to Marth, Roy, and Ike as "legendary characters".

I never said anything about Lucina or Chrom here.
Also I'm not alone in thinking other characters deserve to be in front of Roy. The same could be said that YOU want to put Roy in front of others and that Roy being such a great character is YOUR opinion.

The problem is though more people want Roy than those other FE characters, and the most wanted FE character after Roy is... Chrom. Even Lucina, who is more popular among FE fans than Chrom is, is much less requested than Chrom is (due to her strong similarities to Marth).

My Unit and Anna(and Lucina) have far less interest in them than Roy and Chrom have.

So the problem is among those people who want someone more interesting than Roy/Chrom/Lucina, is that those people absolutely cannot agree on who it should be.

You keep running back to the whole Roy is famous thing despite me trying to explain that new characters will grow to comparable popularities if they're actually in smash.

It does not matter. Roy is already popular and within the context of the FE series, he is definitely the most important lord for the Elibe arc (FE6/FE7) and the most iconic lord for the GBA trilogy overall. It was Roy that made the commader of the GBA trilogy's armies for Red vs. Blue arc for example.

Secondly, you could say the same thing about a lot of other characters already in Smash Bros. If the Ice Climbers were cut, and lots of people wanted them to return, you could easily say, "if any other retro NES character were included in Melee, they would have become popular too".

It does not matter that they became popular from Smash Bros. or they became popular from their game's of origin, popularity is popularity regardless.

This is really the only argument you have for Roy. Hes not the only character people want. He probably wont add anything new to the FE roster. Hes not the best to promote the series.

Roy does not just have popularity going for him. He is the most important lord overall for the Elibe storyline, and most iconic face for the GBA trilogy overall.

Secondly, Roy could very well offer just as much as Chrom and Lucina could (both of whom are lords who primarily use swords). The Sword of Seals with its unique properties such as a long-distance fire attack and healing, could easily make Roy de-cloned solely through the specials point of view, and the fiery blade for the Sword of Seals (with the blade to the Sword of Seals actually being on fire like it is in FE6) would help Roy aesthetically stand out even if he were to get in as a semi-clone (which is the very least that would happen for Roy). Just look at how differently Falco and Toon Link play compared to Fox and Link in Brawl.

Secondly, you say that he is "not the only character people want", but in terms of what most people have observed, the only other FE character with very strong demand (especially internationally) is Chrom. So either way most people want characters that could possibly end up to be semi-clones.

You should take this to a private message with me, because I think this conversation is now ruinning this topic.

 

[Deleted member]

Have you individually looked at each suggested character's popularity on each board? There is a decent amount of people here who've suggested it, but have you actually looked around? Or are you just assuming? You seem to know exactly how popular each character is in each individual region. It doesn't even make sense. So to me there are 2 possibilities:

1. You actually don't.
2. This is your full-time job.

I'm not even sure which I'm more inclined to believe.

And I'd argue there is more than just the Toon Link example. Now I know what you're going to say, Roy wasn't replaced by Ike, and Mewtwo wasn't replaced by Lucario since they were both intended to be in the game, but that if they were planned for Brawl but were cut due to time restraints (which we don't even know!). But even if that's true, the fact remains that Ike and Lucario still got priority during development.

I will say this again; it is only a small minority. Smashboards as a whole is not a collective representation of the wants of the fans; just a part of it.
Aside from that, I get my Japanese information from ChronoBound (the very one who's posting in this thread), who has been following Japanese speculation since the tail end of Brawl's development (though he gets more information about before he started from other users who have been following it longer), and the general consensus there is against removing or replacing characters. I also do not make claims of "exactly how popular each character is" outside Japan; I merely don't overestimate like you do.

And no, Lucario and Ike do not make for examples. You claim "we don't know" Mewtwo and Roy were cut due to time restraints, when we actually do. While Sakurai hasn't outright said "Mewtwo and Roy were cut due to time issues", there is a lot of separate information that shows that was the case if you use your brain to put the pieces together.
-He actually said there were more characters he wanted to include, but couldn't due to time. He refused to give any names, however.
-Brawl's roster was finalized on July 7, 2005 with the notion that late cuts could be made if time would not allow the production of everyone. The only exception is Sonic, who was added early 2007.
-The unfinished characters (sans Dixie Kong, who was scrapped for another reason entirely) were all lower priority characters. What defines a "lower priority character" is anyone that came after R.O.B. and before Snake in the data. (This includes Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf) These characters would be among the first characters to cut if time became an issue for production and would have no role within the SSE other than being "bonus characters".
-Mewtwo and Roy have files for their own victory themes, just like every other character in the game. Notably, Wolf does not have his own file in comparison.


Aside from that, there really is no reason to assume the Trainer would be low priority compared to another Trainer. He's wasn't "modern" then and isn't "modern" now, he's the original protagonist, and he has made multiple non-player appearances (the only player character to do so outside the Generation he came from), INCLUDING the recent Black and White 2 as one of the opponents in the World Tournament. To think he'd be replaced by ANY other Trainer is asinine. If he's going, there will be no "equivalent replacement"; he'll just be gone.
If he's low priority for any reason, it will be because Sakurai will put more priority to a newer Pokémon from B/W and/or X/Y and/or Mewtwo, and most assuredly, Jigglypuff will once again be low priority and Lucario will join the list as well.

 

[ChronoBound]

Kind of like Fire Emblem here

Most people want either Roy or Chrom. Its just a very vocal minority that throws a temper tantrum that they want someone else.

 

[FlareHabanero]

So basically the Fire Emblem situation is that no matter what everyone loses in the end anyway.

I'm a broken record, but there's a reason why Fire Emblem discussions are a fruitless endeavor.

 

[ChronoBound]

So basically the Fire Emblem situation is that no matter what everyone loses in the end anyway.

I'm a broken record, but there's a reason why Fire Emblem discussions are a fruitless endeavor.

90% of people would be happy if we got:

Marth
Roy
Ike
Anna/My Unit

The first three are the most popular FE characters overall, while the last one satisfied the "we need a female/non-sword-user" crowd and reps FE13 too.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

So basically the Fire Emblem situation is that no matter what everyone loses in the end anyway.

I'm a broken record, but there's a reason why Fire Emblem discussions are a fruitless endeavor.

Pretty much a never ending situation

Regardless I have my three I will support (Micaiah, Chrom, & Robin)

 

[Genericmartini]

So this poll posted which has about 134 votes(unless the poll is being deceptive) casted is causing people to consider if Roy is a good or bad contender for Smash 4?(I admit I haven't been paying too much attention but that's what it seems like)

I mean i'm not a giant Roy fanboy but the road this has taken is really astounding me. Unless a bigger poll with a higher margin of voters pops up showing Roy is less popular than I can see this becoming an issue.

 

[SmashShadow]

Chrom and Lucina don't really work well for specific advertisement because their game will be around a year+ old by the time smash comes out. It would only make sense if they were going to be in the next FE game.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Chrom and Lucina don't really work well for specific advertisement because their game will be around a year+ old by the time smash comes out. It would only make sense if they were going to be in the next FE game.

Ike wasn't in another game after Radiant Dawn, which was a year old in Japan when Brawl released

 

[ChronoBound]

So this poll posted which has about 134 votes(unless the poll is being deceptive) casted is causing people to consider if Roy is a good or bad contender for Smash 4?(I admit I haven't been paying too much attention but that's what it seems like)

I mean i'm not a giant Roy fanboy but the road this has taken is really astounding me. Unless a bigger poll with a higher margin of voters pops up showing Roy is less popular than I can see this becoming an issue.

No, its people arguing that Roy should not be in because a segment of the hardcore Western FE fanbase does not like him (they don't like Micaiah and Lyn either which is trully funny when that they bring that up).

 

[Neanderthal]

Most people want either Roy or Chrom. Its just a very vocal minority that throws a temper tantrum that they want someone else.

I think theres a good portion of us just hoping Sakurai managed to get his sneaky hands on a new FE lord from the next game who happens to have a more varied fight style.
Roy and Chrom seem pretty boring to me since we already have Marth and Ike.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think theres a good portion of us just hoping Sakurai managed to get his sneaky hands on a new FE lord from the next game who happens to have a more varied fight style.
Roy and Chrom seem pretty boring to me since we already have Marth and Ike.

Which is why I said that 90% of people would be happy if we got Marth, Roy, Ike, and Anna/My Unit.

Secondly, the roster likely already has been finalized, and even if Sakurai were to get a sneak peak at a future FE, Sakurai would probably have to implement that future lord as a clone due to them being so late an addition.

If there were four slots, there would be no problem at all for FE. However, as it stands Roy is definitely the most wanted FE character for Smash 4.

 

[Neanderthal]

No, its people arguing that Roy should not be in because a segment of the hardcore Western FE fanbase does not like him (they don't like Micaiah and Lyn either which is trully funny when that they bring that up).

I've been following this thread today and no one argued that at all.

 

[Deleted member]

Err, discussion about Roy's popularity is kind of off-topic. It's not like Roy's place on the chart is up for debate.

 

[FlareHabanero]

90% of people would be happy if we got:

Marth
Roy
Ike
Anna/My Unit

The first three are the most popular FE characters overall, while the last one satisfied the "we need a female/non-sword-user" crowd and reps FE13 too.

I suppose that would be the ideal route, but at the same time it's not the decisive route. One thing for sure is that no matter what, the ending result will not be ideal at all. This seems to only be a problem with Fire Emblem, the other franchises are more firm with their characters.

 

[ChronoBound]

I've been following this thread today and no one argued that at all.

That gingerbread guy argued that.

 

[ChronoBound]

Err, discussion about Roy's popularity is kind of off-topic. It's not like Roy's place on the chart is up for debate.

TL:DR version of the Roy popularity "debate":

Pro-Roy: Roy is the most wanted FE character for Smash 4.
Anti-Roy: That's only because he was in Melee.
Pro-Roy: Popularity is still popularity though, and the Japanese FE fanbase that actually received hisa game likes him.
Anti-Roy: There are much more interesting characters to be included over him.
Pro-Roy: The most likely and popular non-Roy FE character to get in is Chrom, and he is just as "bland" as Roy is.
Anti-Roy: Its not fair about Roy's popularity. Any FE character would become popular if they were in Smash Bros.
Pro-Roy: That goes for a lot of other characters in Smash Bros., even Ike (and Marth in the West).
Anti-Roy: Most people want someone else than Roy who is not interesting.
Pro-Roy: The most wanted FE character after Roy is Chrom, and those two are by far the most wanted FE characters in general. So most Smash fans want a "bland" FE newcomer.
Anti-Roy: I still don't think Roy deserves it.

 

[Neanderthal]

I suppose that would be the ideal route, but at the same time it's not the decisive route. One thing for sure is that no matter what, the ending result will not be ideal at all. This seems to only be a problem with Fire Emblem, the other franchises are more firm with their characters.

I'm just praying that Xenoblade doesn't go down that path too.
But in the vein of most Japanese RPG's it will probably have the same complication and the new hero will turn out to be Shulk's descendant or something. Sigh.

Anna/My Unit

Out of curiosity, what is the concept of this Anna/My unit character?

 

[ChronoBound]

Out of curiosity, what is the concept of this Anna/My unit character?

Anna uses a short sword and staves (if she is a trickster), potentially could use any weapon possible in FE if she were a Master Knight.

My Unit uses magic (can use swords too), but is hurt by not having a defined appearance or name (some say Robin, but I would wager most people playing FE13 named My Unit after themselves).

 

[SmashShadow]

That just makes him not advertisement material. He got in from his two protagonist roles which is more than 90% of FE lords have.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I'm just praying that Xenoblade doesn't go down that path too.
But in the vein of most Japanese RPG's it will probably have the same complication and the new hero will turn out to be Shulk's descendant or something. Sigh.

Not really. Xenoblade appears to be a "series" that will only get a game every once in a while in a vein to Pikmin, so there wouldn't be a big issue. Going by what we know, it can easily be Shulk and Protagonist X without a hitch.

Let's just clarify that it's easier to point out characters from only (possibly) two games instead of thirteen like Fire Emblem.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Based off my ventures through Super Smash Bros land, especially here on the SmashBoards, this couldn't be farther from the truth.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Spoiler

Most people want either Roy or Chrom. Its just a very vocal minority that throws a temper tantrum that they want someone else.

Ouch. I didn't need that.

Roy is still one of the most recognizable faces for Fire Emblem. The only other two characters that compare are Marth and Ike. The popularity of Ike and Roy in the West from Smash Bros. is a reason why the Red vs. Blue arc (the armies of Elibe and Magvel led by Roy and the armies of Tellius led by Ike) got localized as "Smash Brethren".

Also, in a Nintendo Direct (the one in late Feburary/early March), when describing the latest DLC chapter (the one where you get Micaiah), Bill Trinen (the head of localization at NOA) referred to Marth, Roy, and Ike as "legendary characters".

What is there to explain here. Most people know about FE through smashbros. Using that is just a smart way to market the game. Most of those people who recognize those character probably have no idea who somebody like Ephraim is. Once again its just riding the wave smash created.

The problem is though more people want Roy than those other FE characters, and the most wanted FE character after Roy is... Chrom. Even Lucina, who is more popular among FE fans than Chrom is, is much less requested than Chrom is (due to her strong similarities to Marth).

My Unit and Anna(and Lucina) have far less interest in them than Roy and Chrom have.

So the problem is among those people who want someone more interesting than Roy/Chrom/Lucina, is that those people absolutely cannot agree on who it should be.

Thankfully, people not being able to agree does not mean their arguments are invalid.

It does not matter. Roy is already popular and within the context of the FE series, he is definitely the most important lord for the Elibe arc (FE6/FE7) and the most iconic lord for the GBA trilogy overall.

That's debate-able. Roy played no part in the plot concerning the black fang or nergal. Hes not necessary for that game to make sense or function. I can possibly believe that hes the most iconic lord of the GBA series in Japan but not in the west. Nearly everyone in the west started with FE7 or FE8 and some never even played FE6.

It was Roy that made the commader of the GBA trilogy's armies for Red vs. Blue arc for example.

Secondly, you could say the same thing about a lot of other characters already in Smash Bros. If the Ice Climbers were cut, and lots of people wanted them to return, you could easily say, "if any other retro NES character were included in Melee, they would have become popular too".

It does not matter that they became popular from Smash Bros. or they became popular from their game's of origin, popularity is popularity regardless.

Most of these character aren't getting in because of popularity. Roy himself didn't get in because of it. What separates roy from the Iceclimbers is that Roy has already been cut once. He NEEDS reasons to be added back in especially since there's competitors for FE slots which there is a limited amount of.

Roy does not just have popularity going for him. He is the most important lord overall for the Elibe storyline, and most iconic face for the GBA trilogy overall.

Secondly, Roy could very well offer just as much as Chrom and Lucina could (both of whom are lords who primarily use swords). The Sword of Seals with its unique properties such as a long-distance fire attack and healing, could easily make Roy de-cloned solely through the specials point of view, and the fiery blade for the Sword of Seals (with the blade to the Sword of Seals actually being on fire like it is in FE6) would help Roy aesthetically stand out even if he were to get in as a semi-clone (which is the very least that would happen for Roy). Just look at how differently Falco and Toon Link play compared to Fox and Link in Brawl.

Secondly, you say that he is "not the only character people want", but in terms of what most people have observed, the only other FE character with very strong demand (especially internationally) is Chrom. So either way most people want characters that could possibly end up to be semi-clones.

You should take this to a private message with me, because I think this conversation is now ruinning this topic.

I think we need reasons why Roy is better than characters like Chrom and Lucina than equal. If we add Roy we're stepping back over 10 years to take an old character out of the box (who was even cut) to eclipse, in the case of a FE13 rep, a very very successful and praised game (more successful than FE6 mind you).
Falchion in FE:A also can heal btw. Plus both characters in this case has a spear. If you compare to Anna, or Robin, I think Roy just loses the battle of giving something new.

 

[ChronoBound]

That just makes him not advertisement material. He got in from his two protagonist roles which is more than 90% of FE lords have.

Ike got in because Sakurai did not know who put in as the FE newcomer for Brawl (there had been six new lords created after Roy), so Sakurai went to Intelligent Systems and asked them for their advice on this. They suggested Ike to him, and Sakurai agreed with them and the rest was history.

 

[ChronoBound]

I don't know about the whole "competition of spots" thing. If Sakurai feels a character is worthy enough to be added in he will add them in regardless of how many spots a series "should" have.

Star Fox and Fire Emblem somehow received two slots over the far more popular DK and and Kirby series in Melee.
Star Fox received three characters in Brawl despite DK and Metroid being more popular.

If Sakurai thinks Roy should return yet also wants to add in someone to rep FE13, he will do it, even if the FE series is regarded as a "smaller series" if he thinks both characters warrant inclusion to begin with. You might mention the problem with "time constraints", but keep in mind this time Sakurai potentially has the option of DLC to finish up whatever characters he wanted/intended to add in while also being able to have Smash 4 hit shelves in time for Q4 2014.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I like how people assume FE can only have 3 slots.

Marth
Ike
Roy
FE13 rep.

There everyone happy?

Oh wait.

This is a FE discussion.

No one is ever happy.

 

[Neanderthal]

Not really. Xenoblade appears to be a "series" that will only get a game every once in a while in a vein to Pikmin, so there wouldn't be a big issue. Going by what we know, it can easily be Shulk and Protagonist X without a hitch.

Let's just clarify that it's easier to point out characters from only (possibly) two games instead of thirteen like Fire Emblem.

Ofcourse. But it's still a pain in the ass choosing one out of two equally deserving characters. And I was more referring to the future titles.

 

[Neanderthal]

I like how people assume FE can only have 3 slots.

Marth
Ike
Roy
FE13 rep.

There everyone happy?

Oh wait.

This is a FE discussion.

No one is ever happy.

As long as the FE13 rep isn't another run of the mill sword user clone then that would be perfect.

But I do find it hard to see FE getting more than 3 slots. Especially with Sakurai suggesting there will be less newcomers than ever.

 

[ssbHex]

I will say this again; it is only a small minority. Smashboards as a whole is not a collective representation of the wants of the fans; just a part of it.
Aside from that, I get my Japanese information from ChronoBound (the very one who's posting in this thread), who has been following Japanese speculation since the tail end of Brawl's development (though he gets more information about before he started from other users who have been following it longer), and the general consensus there is against removing or replacing characters. I also do not make claims of "exactly how popular each character is" outside Japan; I merely don't overestimate like you do.

And no, Lucario and Ike do not make for examples. You claim "we don't know" Mewtwo and Roy were cut due to time restraints, when we actually do. While Sakurai hasn't outright said "Mewtwo and Roy were cut due to time issues", there is a lot of separate information that shows that was the case if you use your brain to put the pieces together.
-He actually said there were more characters he wanted to include, but couldn't due to time. He refused to give any names, however.
-Brawl's roster was finalized on July 7, 2005 with the notion that late cuts could be made if time would not allow the production of everyone. The only exception is Sonic, who was added early 2007.
-The unfinished characters (sans Dixie Kong, who was scrapped for another reason entirely) were all lower priority characters. What defines a "lower priority character" is anyone that came after R.O.B. and before Snake in the data. (This includes Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf) These characters would be among the first characters to cut if time became an issue for production and would have no role within the SSE other than being "bonus characters".
-Mewtwo and Roy have files for their own victory themes, just like every other character in the game. Notably, Wolf does not have his own file in comparison.


Aside from that, there really is no reason to assume the Trainer would be low priority compared to another Trainer. He's wasn't "modern" then and isn't "modern" now, he's the original protagonist, and he has made multiple non-player appearances (the only player character to do so outside the Generation he came from), INCLUDING the recent Black and White 2 as one of the opponents in the World Tournament. To think he'd be replaced by ANY other Trainer is asinine. If he's going, there will be no "equivalent replacement"; he'll just be gone.
If he's low priority for any reason, it will be because Sakurai will put more priority to a newer Pokémon from B/W and/or X/Y and/or Mewtwo, and most assuredly, Jigglypuff will once again be low priority and Lucario will join the list as well.

You missed my point. I didn't overestimate at all. I know very well that Smashboards is but one site, and one set of fans. What I'm criticizing is in a way, you personally. What I don't understand is, whenever someone brings up "X character is more generally more popular than Y character", your counter-argument is some form of "no it isn't". And while that's perfectly valid, I don't know how you can possibly know exactly how popular each potential character is. You get your Japanese info from Chonobound, sure, but apart from that? Your western info? Every other site that isn't Smashboards? It's very easy to say "that character has no support anywhere other than Smashboards", or "Check your bias, bro", but when you do, it's ultimately your word against your opponent's. You've never needed to provide proof for example that X character is more popular than Y character, because, well, all your information is surely correct.

Here's the thing though. It actually may be all correct.

If such is the case, seriously, I'd like to know: do you get paid to do this? For you to make bold claims contrary to what many people here would say generally about a character's popularity and presume yourself to be correct is a level of confidence in the subject that doesn't make sense otherwise.

As for the Forbidden 7 stuff:

I don't agree that Ike and Lucario aren't examples. My point is, if Luca/Ike were higher priority than Mewtwo/Roy, then modernization of the cast matters to some degree. It's rather simple.

 

[Banjodorf]

Ike and Lucario were also extremely popular choices; and it was said there would be cuts. Mewtwo and Roy's character popularity wouldnt have made an impact in the decision because it wasnt being called into question/ You can't claim it was because they were modern, and I can easily reference Diddy Kong and his move set as evidence. "Modernization" matters to a certain degree, but it matters about as much as nostalgic appeal and "classic status" do. It's also more important for stages than it is characters, by far.

Unless there's some part of this discussion I'm missing.

 

[Deleted member]

You missed my point. I didn't overestimate at all. I know very well that Smashboards is but one site, and one set of fans. What I'm criticizing is in a way, you personally. What I don't understand is, whenever someone brings up "X character is more generally more popular than Y character", your counter-argument is some form of "no it isn't". And while that's perfectly valid, I don't know how you can possibly know exactly how popular each potential character is. You get your Japanese info from Chonobound, sure, but apart from that? Your western info? Every other site that isn't Smashboards? It's very easy to say "that character has no support anywhere other than Smashboards", or "Check your bias, bro", but when you do, it's ultimately your word against your opponent's. You've never needed to provide proof for example that X character is more popular than Y character, because, well, all your information is surely correct.

Except that I've never claimed that I know the exact popularity, which I have stated in my previous post and you obviously did not get.
In fact, that really has nothing to do with what you initially called me out for; my statement that the "good/decent" demand for a replacement Trainer is really just a small minority. Which it is. I don't need to know the exact popularity of such an idea is to make a claim like that. The burden of proof instead rests on you to back up your claim other than making further claims such as "it's suggested here a lot", which holds no water in the long run and is a huge overestimation.
You want to talk "good/decent" demand? Talk someone like Geno (as compared to the Brawl days where he had "great" demand). Despite much of his fanbase dying down after Brawl, he still has a reasonable amount of popularity and discussion throughout the internet. Can't say the same for a replacement Trainer. Secondary Trainers? Sure, I see that often. But rarely do I see a replacement seen in a positive light.

Here's the thing though. It actually may be all correct.

If such is the case, seriously, I'd like to know: do you get paid to do this? For you to make bold claims contrary to what many people here would say generally about a character's popularity and presume yourself to be correct is a level of confidence in the subject that doesn't make sense otherwise.

You mean, do I get paid to say things that only a small minority of people would disagree on? No, but I sure as Hell would love it; that'd be easy money for me while ignorant people do all the work by simply being ignorant. I'd be richer than Carlos Slim by now (look him up).

As for the Forbidden 7 stuff:

I don't agree that Ike and Lucario aren't examples. My point is, if Luca/Ike were higher priority than Mewtwo/Roy, then modernization of the cast matters to some degree. It's rather simple.

Quit changing the goal of your argument. Your initial argument was that they served as "modern equivalents/replacements", to which they don't. The only character that can be claimed as such is Toon Link. Now you are trying to argue that modernization as a whole takes effect, which I never argued against. In fact, it's already obvious that it has an effect as a whole when you look at various changes in design characters take from the jump from Melee to Brawl and even newer moves and other changes.
But at the same time, neither Pokémon Trainer Red nor his Pokémon were "modern", and yet had higher priority than any Pokémon character other than Pikachu. So clearly, modernization didn't have THAT strong of an effect when "unmodern" characters such as Red, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard have high priority (even higher than the "modern" Lucario) while equally "unmodern" characters Jigglypuff and Mewtwo had low priority.
It's rather simple when one thinks, really.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I wonder if the 3DS Smash Bros's roster will be nothing but FE characters so they all get their chance...

Anyway, let's leave the list as it is and then you can have the schadenfreude of rubbing it in GY's face if the character you debated for actually does get it.

 

[Neanderthal]

Do you think it would be possible to put little captions of the characters names under each image next time?

It's just that you see all of these names on this board from games you've never played and learn about them but still won't necessarily recognise their face.
You'd have to be one hell of a hardcore gamer to not have at least 5 characters on that list who you don't recognise at first.
I counted 13 who I'm clueless about.

 

[Deleted member]

What I want is proof.
Not random barrel scraping such as how many people post in a thread, the content of what those people are posting, or number of pages of discussion in that thread.

Now, GM's poll, that's legitimate proof. Now, why couldn't you have supplied it and shown me you have any sort of credibility?
But at the same, all the poll does is show that Lyn is more popular than Micaiah on Serenes Forest. Yay, useless trivia.
Still doesn't change the fact that Sakurai really doesn't give a **** about who is more popular in the West.

The support on this forum should be proof enough... If that isn't enough for you? Take a look at Shorie's poll:

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...rrent-results-vote-on-new-poll.324324/page-13

Lyn pulls in a total of 97 votes on this board, that's half as much as Roy. Granted, Micaiah's not on that list.

So, I made a poll and ran it across /feg/ on 4chan and a Smash Bros thread on /v/

http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=51763efee4b0bd1609c69c04

So far, Lyn surprisingly ties for first with Empriam for fave lord.

Micaiah pulls a meek 4%

Roy has 0 votes.

Just goes to show... Anyway, feel free to pass this poll around and vote on it yourselves, I've placed it on my sig. I'm tired of all the bull**** FE debates claiming popularity, but showing little proof. So lets find out who the most popular lord out of all them really is...

Not if you count Japan as well, as that is where majority of Micaiah's fanbase is (and Lyn is not really big over there)

This is the first I've heard of this, Lyn also has decent support in Japan. Care to provide some sources? Not just you, but anyone?

Anyway, I hope this ends the bs FE debate. I'm personally through with it.

Look Yuii, you can add Lyn or not, I don't care anymore. I was just pointing out that she was a character that deserved to be in there among some of the other choices you put in there. As a supporter it certainly rubbed me the wrong way that she's considered less notable than the likes Anna and Boo. Same way you'd be pissed if someone were take unlikely choices and dismiss Doc because "he's doesn't have enough support" when there clearly is.

Beside that, I'm done with this thread. It's clear the qualifications to get recognized are moot.

Later...

 

[ChronoBound]

You come across as incredibly immature in that post. Why do you care so much what Golden thinks, its his topic.

Also, citing /v/ as a source for popularity is incredibly dumb too.

I could pull up a similar poll that shows Lyn is less popular than Hector within FE7 among FE7 fans:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/468480-fire-emblem/65509972

Lyn has half the votes as Hector.

I think you should just edit your post, and just forget about this topic.

 

[Vintage Creep]

The immature one is always Golden, talking like we're all idiots who don't understand him.
Always pisses me off, but he's the one who put me in the ignore list lol.

 

[Deleted member]

You come across as incredibly immature in that post. Why do you care so much what Golden thinks, its his topic.

Also, citing /v/ as a source for popularity is incredibly dumb too.

I could pull up a similar poll that shows Lyn is less popular than Hector within FE7 among FE7 fans:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/468480-fire-emblem/65509972

Lyn has half the votes as Hector.

I think you should just edit your post, and just forget about this topic.

I'm not just citing /v/, in fact, most of the votes come from /feg/. However, I've spread the poll around this place as well to try and garner more votes. And no, I did not post it in the Lyn thread (check yourself), as that would skew results, only in the FE Discussion thread. I don't think I'll post it in other forums as I'm too lazy, but if anyone else feels like spreading it to NeoGAF or Serene's Forest, you're more than free to take it there. Likewise make sure you vote for your favorite lord.

EDIT: I should also mention I was geninely surprised to see Lyn get so many votes from them. I guess Lyn haters are very vocal. I never expected her to get 1st place. Maybe 3rd or 5th, but never 1st.

 

[Neanderthal]

The immature one is always Golden, talking like we're all idiots who don't understand him.
Always pisses me off, but he's the one who put me in the ignore list lol.

I'd have to agree since these big arguments where insults start to get thrown always seem to involve him.

If you look at the argument that got me on his ignore list it's comical.
He aggressively started an argument with me and I defend myself till he got angry. I realise he's getting angry for whatever reason so I try to make the peace with him and even compliment him on his vast video game knowledge. And then bam... I'm on his ignore list for talking back too many times.

I can admire that he has a strong personality with a very wide knowledge on video games which seems to have garnered him some fans. But he just doesn't get on with others who have stronger personalities as well, especially if they have differing opinions to his.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Well, knowledge is nothing without common sense. And some of his arguments well... Let's say they're not particularly "common".
If the strong personality is to put in an ignore list whoever doesn't listen to you, I'd much rather have a weak one.