Smash 4 Speculation Chart [WE UPDATE NOW]

[Scoliosis Jones]

So wait...Nintendo own The Wonderful 101?

 

[Deleted member]

"More obvious"? Lol. Check your bias at the door; only logic allowed.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I swear that if I'll win the lottery or get absurd rich somehow I will make that Banjo-Kazooie rumor real.

I SWEAR IT.

Microsoft sure isn't using them so I guess the only reason they hang onto the IP is because they now someone will pay through the ear for them... and to sell the original 2 on XBOX Live. If I get much cash I'll do so to.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Microsoft sure isn't using them so I guess the only reason they hang onto the IP is because they now someone will pay through the ear for them... and to sell the original 2 on XBOX Live. If I get much cash I'll do so to.

To be honest I think their IP isn't of much value to Microsoft anymore.
I guess that a raise of the fan could easily get the money they want. But that's not gonna happen in a million years.

 

[Deleted member]

"More obvious"? Lol. Check your bias at the door; only logic allowed.

Fair enough.

Tell me why Lyn isn't on there? She was an assist trophy in Brawl, clearly her popularity is recognized by Sakurai. If the other AT characters like Waluigi, Saki and Isaac are in, then so should Lyn.

2nd, why is there no AW character?

What about a trainer replacing Red? That's not completely out the window either.

Bayonetta and Travis have got a slim chance, but bigger than most people around here credit, and certainly bigger than King Boo, Zael, Aeron, Grey Fox, or a 2nd Sonic rep. Hell, we'd get Bayonetta before we got Shadow or Eggman, that much I'd gurarantee.

Lastly, your exclusion of Castlevania and Street Fighter is near-sighted. Sure fans want Mega Man, but does Capcom want Mega Man?

 

[Deleted member]

Lyn: As I stated, Micaiah was a popular Brawl request in Japan that didn't rise until after Brawl's roster finalization (mainly in part to not existing until later). Lyn has no documented rise in popularity anywhere except the West (unless Chrono gave me incorrect information).

2nd Trainer: There is no reason to even speculate that one is going to happen.

Sylux: One of many forgettable characters from an older game in the series. This is like Ove saying to add Adeleine.
At least Anthony has being from the latest game in the series and being the closest thing to a sidekick character to Samus.

Leon: Less popular than Krystal and Slippy, and far less important. Though I will say that he was one I considered adding to the chart.

Advance Wars characters: Not going to happen. The series was clearly seen as one that did not offer a viable character (this is especially considering that the Assist for the game is of the generic soilders and tanks) and there hasn't been a game since Brawl that could possibly change Sakurai's mind. The Days of Ruin characters specifically haven't a shot in Hell, since the game was not released in Japan, and we know how well games not released in Japan get represented.

Prince of Sable/Sheriff/Duck Hunt Dog: The four Retros on the list are there because Sakurai has mentioned them in a positive light.
If Sukapon was seen as too obscure, there is no way the Prince of Sable is going to be seen any different.
Sheriff may be the first Nintendo character to exist, but that honestly does not mean much in the long run when the Game & Watch is credited as Nintendo's first gaming success.
The Duck Hunt Dog, while rather notable, is unlikely to be seen as viable as a character. The Urban Champion "didn't put out enough" to work with, and the Dog puts out even less.

Travis: In context, Suda51's statement is more along the lines of "he'd be cool" than him implying he will actively try to get Travis in Smash like Kojima did for Snake. I don't include non-Namco 3rd Parties on that sort of basis anymore; not after the Meat Boy fiasco.

Bayonetta: Same issue; Kamiya's response to the idea of her in Smash is pretty much "would be cool" and "go ask Sakurai".

KOS-MOS and Klonoa: Only Namco characters with a shot at this point are Pac-Man for being the overall mascot of the company, Tales characters because of Yoshi-to being a co-director and said to have wanted to see one in Smash, and Tekken because of Harada's mention that fans really took off on Tekken characters appearing in Smash with little mention of Namco's other series.

Simon: While Kojima is in charge of the series now, there isn't any notion that he will try to pull the same thing with Simon as he did Snake. Simon is one of those "iffy" characters for now.

Death: There is no way Death would be included; not with Simon Belmont not yet in the game (while the rule over characters that require another character in the game to be on the chart had been lifted, it's still common sense that a main character would be chosen before a villain. And even then, Dracula has a lot more going for him than Death anyway.

Raiden: Inelligible. He has yet to appear on a Nintendo system, one of Sakurai's requirements for a guest character.

Capcom Characters: Capcom's character of choice is Mega Man, as had been stated before, even by Ono. Mega Man also has the most fan demand out of any guest character. If Mega Man is not to be included, Capcom will not get anyone else. Aside from that, main character would get in first, so Ryu would get in over the other two, regardless of how you find Chun-Li less boring.

Banjo-Kazooie: I don't take rumors. If and ONLY if the rumor is true and Nintendo obtains the rights to Banjo-Kazooie from Microsoft, they will be on the chart. Until then, they are inelligible.

 

[ssbHex]

I don't think he was suggesting a 2nd trainer... but rather a trainer from a different region to replace the one from Brawl. For example, a Hoenn trainer using those starters or a Unova trainer, etc. Or even N with Zoroark and some others.

I don't think it's likely because none of these Pokemon can reasonably replace Charizard, but it is possible that he may want to update the roster to a more modern equivalent. I mean, it's not that Farfetch'd.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Not to mention that Kojima specifically had a hand in Raiden being PS AllStar's Metal Gear representative, making me think he wants to keep Snake to Smash. But I'm rambling.

The list is looking good. It'd be cool for Mega Man AND Pac-Man to get in. Then we could have the battle that SFxT promised us but failed to deliver. (Tubby Megaman Vs Mojikin with a Pac-Head is what we got in the end.)

 

[Deleted member]

Lyn: As I stated, Micaiah was a popular Brawl request in Japan that didn't rise until after Brawl's roster finalization (mainly in part to not existing until later). Lyn has no documented rise in popularity anywhere except the West (unless Chrono gave me incorrect information).

I'll admit, as a Lyn supporter this is the one I find the most bothersome.

Lyn's popluarity is clearly higher than Micaiah's. If you're gonna have her and Anna on there, Lyn should be there too. Japan or not, she's popular enough to get an Assist Trophy. In fact, it says a lot when both new FE reps in Brawl were favorites in the West. Ike isn't as popular in Japan either, they hated PoR and RD over there, and generally dislike Ike's character. Yet Ike still got in Brawl.

Dismissing her overall popularity because the Nipponese don't find her interesting is a sore blow for me. Especially considering her western importance. As it stands now, Lyn is still more popular and has more support than Micaiah. Sales talk does it here man, FE7 has sold wayyyy more than FE10. More people have been exposed to Lyn than Micaiah, and the majority of people who played FE10 didn't take to kindly to her as she was a weight to carry for most of the game. Ike stole the spotlight too in that game.

The only reason Micaiah gets any support is because of her diversity, but Robin seems to be filling that spot as of late, and it shouldn't be said that Lyn also offers as much diversity in playstyle as Micaiah. Point in case, if Micaiah and Anna are on there so should Lyn. Next to Roy (who is obviously behind anyone who starred in FE13), she's the most likely choice for a new FE character in Sm4sh. In other words Lyn has a better shot than Micaiah and Anna.

Bayonetta: Same issue; Kamiya's response to the idea of her in Smash is pretty much "would be cool" and "go ask Sakurai".

I never heard of this, you got any links?

Anyway, I've discussed in the Roster thread why Bayo has a shot. She's also got decent support and compared to Shadow or other Sonic reps, she's more likely to get in. Once again, my beef isn't with her overall exclusion. It's with the inclusion of less likely characters over her. I repeat man, we're getting Bayo before we EVER get a 2nd Sonic rep. He'll we might even get Bayo if Sonic gets cut.

Simon: While Kojima is in charge of the series now, there isn't any notion that he will try to pull the same thing with Simon as he did Snake. Simon is one of those "iffy" characters for now.

Death: There is no way Death would be included; not with Simon Belmont not yet in the game (while the rule over characters that require another character in the game to be on the chart had been lifted, it's still common sense that a main character would be chosen before a villain. And even then, Dracula has a lot more going for him than Death anyway.

Castlevania had very strong support in the Brawl days. Now while Simon is a shot in the dark, I'd argue Death would be a great choice. Considering he has appeared in EVERY Castlevania game. Something not true for Simon. In a way, due to his notoriously difficult fights, Death pretty much the icon of the series.

Once again, if you're gonna have Grey Fox, and 2nd Sonic reps, you should at least also add either one.

Capcom Characters: Capcom's character of choice is Mega Man, as had been stated before, even by Ono. Mega Man also has the most fan demand out of any guest character. If Mega Man is not to be included, Capcom will not get anyone else. Aside from that, main character would get in first, so Ryu would get in over the other two, regardless of how you find Chun-Li less boring.

There is no rule saying the MC gets in first. Also, Chun-Li is as much an icon of SF as Ryu. I will argue that to the grave.

As for MegaMan getting in over SF characters. Keep in mind that statement was made before Inafune left Capcom and we got FOUR Megaman game cancellations. There is NOTHING saying a SF can't get in over MegaMan.

Everything else I agree on.

I still think it'd be simpler just to add EVERY possible choice, but I suppose that would make this thread too boring.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think he was suggesting a 2nd trainer... but rather a trainer from a different region to replace the one from Brawl. For example, a Hoenn trainer using those starters or a Unova trainer, etc. Or even N with Zoroark and some others.

I don't think it's likely because none of these Pokemon can reasonably replace Charizard, but it is possible that he may want to update the roster to a more modern equivalent. I mean, it's not that Farfetch'd.

Poképun aside, there is no reason to speculate even a replacement. Especially one that isn't a player Trainer like N or Cynthia.
The Trainer and his Pokémon were added for a reason, and it certainly wasn't to be modern, or we would have a Gen 3 Trainer in Brawl. (Gen 3 was the latest Gen before the finalization and Emerald was the last game released before the roster was finalized as well).

 

[Deleted member]

As for MegaMan getting in over SF characters. Keep in mind that statement was made before Inafune left Capcom and we got FOUR Megaman game cancellations. There is NOTHING saying a SF can't get in over MegaMan.

Ono stated he wanted Mega Man after Kenji Inafune left.

October, 2010 - Inafune announced he's leaving Capcom.
March, 2011 - Ono expresses interest in having Mega Man in Smash over any other Capcom character.

 

[Deleted member]

Ono stated he wanted Mega Man after Kenji Inafune left.

October, 2010 - Inafune announced he's leaving Capcom.
March, 2011 - Ono expresses interest in having Mega Man in Smash over any other Capcom character.

Oh, alright. I always thought the Megaman statement was a little after Brawl's release. I'd still take anything Capcom says these days with a grain of salt, but still. It's good enough for the sake of this thread.

 

[Deleted member]

I'll admit, as a Lyn supporter this is the one I find the most bothersome.

Lyn's popluarity is clearly higher than Micaiah's. If you're gonna have her and Anna on there, Lyn should be there too. Japan or not, she's popular enough to get an Assist Trophy. In fact, it says a lot when both new FE reps in Brawl were favorites in the West. Ike isn't as popular in Japan either, they hated PoR and RD over there, and generally dislike Ike's character. Yet Ike still got in Brawl.

"Clearly higher" just reeks of bias unless you have an actual source to back this up.
I also do not include characters solely for being an Assist Trophy, contrary to what you may believe. Otherwise, Kat and Ana would be on the chart along with the other WarioWare characters.
Aside from that, Ike didn't get in from popularity (literally, the only FE character than can claim this is Marth), so do not use him as a counterpoint. He got in because Intelligent Systems suggested him as a new character for Sakurai to use when he went to them in regards to a more recent character.

Dismissing her overall popularity because the Nipponese don't find her interesting is a sore blow for me. Especially considering her western importance. As it stands now, Lyn is still more popular and has more support than Micaiah. Sales talk does it here man, FE7 has sold wayyyy more than FE10. More people have been exposed to Lyn than Micaiah, and the majority of people who played FE10 didn't take to kindly to her as she was a weight to carry for most of the game. Ike stole the spotlight too in that game.

Again, you're going to need to show proof that Lyn is "much more popular" for me to take you seriously and not as biased. Conversely, I'm not arguing that Micaiah is more popular; just that she had a significant amount of post-finalization support in Japan. I have yet to see such a case with Lyn, though if such a case is shown to have existed, I will add her. But until then, no.
The reason I take more significance from Japan is because generally, Sakurai gets his range of popularity from there.

The only reason Micaiah gets any support is because of her diversity, but Robin seems to be filling that spot as of late, and it shouldn't be said that Lyn also offers as much diversity in playstyle as Micaiah. Point in case, if Micaiah and Anna are on there so should Lyn. Next to Roy (who is obviously behind anyone who starred in FE13), she's the most likely choice for a new FE character in Sm4sh. In other words Lyn has a better shot than Micaiah and Anna.

If we're going to argue about shallow support, then really, it should be said that all arguments I've seen for Lyn are equally shallow and biased.
And honestly, I find BOTH Micaiah and Lyn to have little shot. Micaiah however, at least has the notable post-finalization popularity within Japan that can very well override my personal belief if Sakurai decides to look back at characters he couldn't quite consider due to timing. That is why she is on the chart.
As for Anna, if you're going to argue that Lyn is more likely than the series mascot based off of a inflated sense of Western popularity....

I never heard of this, you got any links?

https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/246589664021065728
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/statuses/247382548844535808
(Note, what he is saying is before the "@*insert user name*". What is after is what he is responding to.)

Anyway, I've discussed in the Roster thread why Bayo has a shot. She's also got decent support and compared to Shadow or other Sonic reps, she's more likely to get in. Once again, my beef isn't with her overall exclusion. It's with the inclusion of less likely characters over her. I repeat man, we're getting Bayo before we EVER get a 2nd Sonic rep. He'll we might even get Bayo if Sonic gets cut.

I advise you to read what has been said before; I have stated repeatedly within the thread that characters are not judged about how "more likely they are" compared to each other; they are being compared within their series. As in, someone like Waluigi isn't being compared to someone like Ridley; he's being compared to various Mario candidates, in which he's one of the few that gets a lot of discussion, yet is no higher than the others that do (they are around equal).
So no, just because you find Bayonetta more likely than say, Tails, Shadow, Eggman, etc. doesn't mean that she will be added to the chart. She's got her own demons to deal with (no pun intended) while they have theirs. Among Sonic characters (a veteran series) the three stand the highest chance of the cast. Bayonetta still has issues getting in in the first place.

Castlevania had very strong support in the Brawl days. Now while Simon is a shot in the dark, I'd argue Death would be a great choice. Considering he has appeared in EVERY Castlevania game. Something not true for Simon. In a way, due to his notoriously difficult fights, Death pretty much the icon of the series.

Death is not in Haunted Castle, Castlevania: The Adventure, Castlevania II: Belmont's Revenge, nor in the rebooted series (the one Kojima holds the reigns for). So that takes away the claim that he was in every Castlevania title.
Aside from that, Simon is pretty much the only Castlevania character fans give a **** about in regards to Smash. If we do get a Castlevania character, it's going to be him.

Once again, if you're gonna have Grey Fox, and 2nd Sonic reps, you should at least also add either one.

Metal Gear/Sonic = Veteran series
Castlevania = Newcoming series
Yeah, I don't have to do jack.

There is no rule saying the MC gets in first. Also, Chun-Li is as much an icon of SF as Ryu. I will argue that to the grave.

Icon, yes. Main representative, no. If you wish to argue that to the grave, you might as well start digging it now.
Ryu is the forefront of any crossover that includes Street Fighter with Chun always being the character after him. To think he wouldn't be the Street Fighter character in Smash Bros. if Street Fighter gets a character at all is idiotic.

As for MegaMan getting in over SF characters. Keep in mind that statement was made before Inafune left Capcom and we got FOUR Megaman game cancellations. There is NOTHING saying a SF can't get in over MegaMan.

Bear in mind that Maverick Hunter was cancelled before Inafune left (and would have been what Bomberman: Act Zero was to Bomberman anyway; no big loss there) and that Rockman Online was cancelled by Neowiz Games (the Korean company making the game) due to restructuring issues, not Capcom.
Aside from that, Ono's statement in regards to Mega Man (and M. Bison, as I'm sure that's why you suggested him in the first place) was in March of 2011, after Inafune left. As well as Capcom USA's statement about being "all for" Mega Man in Smash being on July 1st of 2011, again, after Inafune left. Sven talked to Capcom Japan about it, and they said that it was up to Sakurai as it is his game, not theirs.

Since Mega Man is among the most requested characters (especially being the most requested guest character), who do you think that Sakurai is going to contact Capcom about if he contacts them at all? And what, is Capcom going to say "no, add Chun-Li/M. Bison/Viewtiful Joe/Someone other than Mega Man instead"?
Simple logic here.

I still think it'd be simpler just to add EVERY possible choice, but I suppose that would make this thread too boring.

Every possible choice would mean a minimum of every single Pokémon in existence that isn't already playable and any variations of them, including every Trainer and any possible variation of them as well. That's why it is every possible choice within reason.

 

[Deleted member]

Goddamn Yuii, you sure went all out didn't you?

I'm just gonna bother replying to the Lyn bit since I don't have any energy to deal with the rest.

The only proof I can conjure up atm that Lyn is more popular than Micaiah can be found here actually:

http://www.smashboards.com/threads/緑天龍-green-heavenly-dragon-fire-emblems-green-haired-lethal-beauty-lyndis.329084/

http://www.smashboards.com/threads/micaiah-the-silver-haired-maiden-of-dawn.329142/

The ammount of supporters in the respective threads given by the ammount of discussion and individual posters.

Lyn has 4 pages worth of discussion, Micaiah only has 1. I'm not sure about the views on the Micaiah thread as it kept glitching out on me, but I'm sure it's fair to say there's less views. Also, the Lyn thread keeps getting recent posts for support from newcomers to the forum. And most of the posts on the Lyn thread are people just posting to say they support her, whereas in the Micaiah thread it's just people posting fanart and circlejerking (no offense to the Micaiah supporters, we do our fair share of circlejerking at the Lyn thread as well...). Hell, just go through and count the posts of people saying they support each character in the respective threads. Lyn nearly tripples Micaiah.

There was also a poll on some magazine ages ago that discussed the popularity among FE lords because of FE13, and Lyn ranked in the top 15 (don't ask me for sauce I've been asking for it for MONTHS!!! Saw it on /v/ ages, it was a photo from some Japanese magazine), Micaiah didn't rank. Ike was no.2 I think... But since I have no sauce, it's not valid, so w/e.

I could also go on /v/ and make a poll thread between the two, to see who'd come out on top. Now assuming I don't get ignored (which I likely will), barring all the troll "Hector" "Mai Waifu" or w/e responses, I'm sure Lyn would come out on top. But that'll have to be for some other time.

I mean, I'm not sure what else youn want man? The proof is right in your eyes, at your very doorstep, conjuring further proof would take a great deal of effort that would stem beyond the need for a silly thread. Lyn is more popular than Micaiah, more people played FE7 and FE10 worldwide, that alone says it all. If you don't want to admit it, then hey, w/e, it's your thread man...

 

[Dark Phazon]

Heres a funny yet messed up thought lets say Nintendo get the rights to Banjo & Kazooie how fast do you think they would shoot up the ranks/polls? In east and west? Will they past Megaman?

Megaman is more deserving though he made his fame from Nintendo but so did B&K...

 

[Deleted member]

Heres a funny yet messed up thought lets say Nintendo get the rights to Banjo & Kazooie how fast do you think they would shoot up the ranks/polls? In east and west? Will they past Megaman?

Megaman is more deserving though he made his fame from Nintendo but so did B&K...

I wouldn't be surprised if Banjo-Kazooie became among the Top 5 most wanted if it was announced they were going back to Nintendo.

But let's face it, it's not going to happen (although I'm probably one of the few who never cared about their inclusion anyway).

 

[Deleted member]

Heres a funny yet messed up thought lets say Nintendo get the rights to Banjo & Kazooie how fast do you think they would shoot up the ranks/polls? In east and west? Will they past Megaman?

Megaman is more deserving though he made his fame from Nintendo but so did B&K...

Imo, they would blast past all the competition. But perhaps I'm being biased here.

Still, Banjo-Kazooie is like the one franchise everyone wants to see get a glorious comeback. Even the creators themselves. Hell, B-K even have a strong cult following in Japan.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Why don't we make a Kickstarter to buy the franchise and give it to Nintendo? ç_ç

 

[Deleted member]

Why don't we make a Kickstarter to buy the franchise and give it to Nintendo? ç_ç

Because it would take soooooo much money to bring Banjo back. I wish the franchise could return to Nintendo, but it's not going to.

 

[ChronoBound]

Micaiah was also the second-most wanted character for the third Fire Emblem spot in the West from September 2007 to around late 2009. Lyn's popularity crashed in the West and never recovered after the Assist Trophy confirmation. In general, the most wanted female FE character shifts around a lot.

Secondly, FE9/FE10 were not hated in Japan, they just sold poorly relative to the rest of the series.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Because it would take soooooo much money to bring Banjo back. I wish the franchise could return to Nintendo, but it's not going to.

How much do you think Microsoft would want? Imho not more than 5 millions but I'm not really into these sort of things.

 

[Deleted member]

How much do you think Microsoft would want? Imho not more than 5 millions but I'm not really into these sort of things.

Probably a lot more than we want to think. I'm not exactly someone to talk to in regards to economic, but I do think the Rare purchase was pretty expensive, so I wouldn't be surprised if they put up a lot of money for one franchise (that they seemed to have forgotten).

 

[Dark Phazon]

Good thing we all still dream hey..
Also The Rare move pretty much destroyed and splitted Diddy Kong Racing Series...

 

[FlareHabanero]

In general, the most wanted female FE character shifts around a lot.

That could be said for a lot of Fire Emblem characters in general.

 

[Neanderthal]

Might I suggest that we get names under the characters pics next time?
I have no idea who a third of the characters even are and I'd like to be able to look them up.


Speaking of which, so much fail that they are all considered to have a better chance than Mii.

Especially when Mii was barely even recognised when the Brawl roster was chosen and now with Sakurai's mention of having customisable characters.... it makes Mii an extremely viable choice.

Several times more likely than characters like Professor Layton, Lip, Slippy, and Miyamoto himself which was just a joke they made for gods sake.

And that's just the ones I recognise. I hate to think how obscure the chances are of the ones I don't recognise. But according to Golden they still have a better chance than the modern recognisable characterisation of Nintendo Wii gaming who perfectly fits Sakurai's idea of customisable characters. Give me a break.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Oh look, that idiot is beating a dead horse again. Let's all point and laugh at his fruitless endeavor!

 

[AEMehr]

Several times more likely than characters like Professor Layton, Lip, Slippy, and Miyamoto himself which was just a joke they made for gods sake.

I just want to say that I think that this is the stupidest argument I've ever seen you make. The emoticon just reeks of arrogance and doesn't help your case.

Layton is justified to be placed on this list, much more than a lot of the characters already on the chart. Lip is also fine where she is too, maybe not as much as Layton, but her position is also justified.
Slippy and Miyamoto are kinda eh in my opinion (Although beating up people as Miyamoto would be fun), but considering what has been said in the past, they are a bit more justified than Mii. I'm still perfectly fine with them being on the list though.

I would like to suggest that you look into characters before you make remarks like that, it significantly hurts your appearance and maturity level in the eyes of others.

 

[Neanderthal]

Oh look, that idiot is beating a dead horse again. Let's all point and laugh at his fruitless endeavor!

Especially fruitless since GY can't read my messages.
But I'd prefer if you didn't call me an idiot thanks mate. Bit uncalled for.

 

[AEMehr]

But I'd prefer if you didn't call me an idiot thanks mate. Bit uncalled for.

I can agree with this. It wasn't entirely necessary Habanero.

 

[Neanderthal]

I just want to say that I think that this is the stupidest argument I've ever seen you make. The emoticon just reeks of arrogance and doesn't help your case.

Layton is justified to be placed on this list, much more than a lot of the characters already on the chart. Lip is also fine where she is too, maybe not as much as Layton, but her position is also justified.
Slippy and Miyamoto are kinda eh in my opinion (Although beating up people as Miyamoto would be fun), but considering what has been said in the past, they are a bit more justified than Mii. I'm still perfectly fine with them being on the list though.

I would like to suggest that you look into characters before you make remarks like that, it significantly hurts your appearance and maturity level in the eyes of others.

I agree. You misunderstood, I'm not saying those characters don't deserve admission (aside from Miyamoto who the emoticon was directed at). Just that Mii deserves it more.

And yes I do know these characters well, and I believe Mii's chances to be much higher.

 

[AEMehr]

I agree. You misunderstood, I'm not saying those characters don't deserve admission (aside from Miyamoto who the emoticon was directed at). Just that Mii deserves it more.

Well I do personally think that Layton does deserve the position more than Mii. Maybe Miiyamoto too, since it's Miyamoto and Miis (Technically) after all. The other two are understandable to be placed under Mii in terms of priority (Slippy especially).

Also in regards to the emoticon thing, they tend to annoy the heck out of me. ESPECIALLY that laughing one of all things, I hate it with a passion. So please amend my response to it.
iswearifoneofyouguysquotesmypostandpostsitimgonnagetyou

 

[Neanderthal]

Well I do personally think that Layton does deserve the position more than Mii. Maybe Miiyamoto too, since it's Miyamoto and Miis (Technically) after all. The other two are understandable to be placed under Mii in terms of priority (Slippy especially).

Also in regards to the emoticon thing, they tend to annoy the heck out of me. ESPECIALLY that laughing one of all things, I hate it with a passion. So please amend my response to it.
iswearifoneofyouguysquotesmypostandpostsitimgonnagetyou

Just messing with you

 

[Deleted member]

Micaiah was also the second-most wanted character for the third Fire Emblem spot in the West from September 2007 to around late 2009. Lyn's popularity crashed in the West and never recovered after the Assist Trophy confirmation. In general, the most wanted female FE character shifts around a lot.

Secondly, FE9/FE10 were not hated in Japan, they just sold poorly relative to the rest of the series.

There was still a lot of poor reception for those games over all. Especially considering this is a long running and popular series over there. Low sales is not a sign of positive criticism from the fans (dunno why, FE9 and 10 are among my faves).

Even still, more people worldwide played FE7 than FE10.

Now, while Lyn's popularity has slumped since Brawl, it hasn't died. There is still plenty of support from a number of people, and it's steadily growing as seen from the Lyn support thread. The same can't be said for Micaiah and Anna, the latter of which just seems as a novelty of sorts. You should also note that Micaiah's popularity rose at that time due to bandwagoning. Support is still support, but looking at support from the past like that is absurd. You must look at the big picture. RIGHT NOW, Lyn has more support than Micaiah. You don't even need to look far, a quick look at the respective threads for the characters is all you need. Lyn support outnumbers Anna and Micaiah support combined on here, and all 3 threads were made at around the same time.

Lastly, if anything, Lyn getting an assist trophy is more of a plus than a minus. It means her popularity was recognized to a degree. Something neither Micaiah, not Anna or even Roy can claim. Anna, who's the "Series Mascot" would have made a great AT, but she was forgotten completely for the sake of a Western Favorite.

My point still stands, since it's a comparative list like Yuii said, between the same franchise, if Micaiah's on there, then so should Lyn.

If Lyn isn't imporant enough to him, then he should remove Micaiah and Anna as well.

 

[AEMehr]

Just messing with you

 

[ChronoBound]

Now, while Lyn's popularity has slumped since Brawl, it hasn't died.

It significantly died out. There is a reason why no one bothered to make a Lyn support topic until you started to post a lot at this site. If you were not here, I would not be surprised if the Lyn topic was as inactive as the Micaiah one (Lyn's popularity elsewhere seems to be around the same as Micaiah

There is still plenty of support from a number of people, and it's steadily growing as seen from the Lyn support thread.

If you are using the size of support threads to support your idea that Lyn is widely supported, then Roy absolutely crushes Lyn due how big his support thread is compared to Lyn. Again, look at how long it took for a Lyn support topic to even pop up on this site. I also bet if you left this site, the meager interest in Lyn that is here would evaporate within a few months time.

The same can't be said for Micaiah and Anna, the latter of which just seems as a novelty of sorts.

In an OFFICIAL FE13 poll by NOA, Anna received nearly the same amount of votes as Chrom did. This was a poll done by NOA. Not some fan poll. If there is anyone in any position to feed information about Western popularity to Sakurai its NOA. So to NOA, they know that Anna has practically the same amount of popularity as Chrom has despite being a side character in FE13.

You also are only focusing on SmashBoards when it comes to Lyn (where Roy absolutely crushes her even here). Elsewhere, people want Lucina and Anna more when the topic of a female FE character comes up.

You should also note that Micaiah's popularity rose at that time due to bandwagoning. Support is still support, but looking at support from the past like that is absurd. You must look at the big picture. RIGHT NOW, Lyn has more support than Micaiah.

Right now Lyn is a slightly taller ****** than Micaiah. RIGHT NOW, more people are asking for Lucina and Anna in terms of female characters, and both those characters did well in an official poll done by NOA (and Lucina got first place on the female side for an official Japanese FE13 poll). Lyn by comparison was behind both Eliwood and Hector in the official FE7 poll.

You don't even need to look far, a quick look at the respective threads for the characters is all you need. Lyn support outnumbers Anna and Micaiah support combined on here, and all 3 threads were made at around the same time.

Again. I would say this is mostly due to your own efforts towards pushing Lyn. If there was someone out there that made the same sort of aggressive push for Anna and Micaiah as you do for Lyn, I think at the very least the Anna thread would be much bigger than the Lyn thread.

Lastly, if anything, Lyn getting an assist trophy is more of a plus than a minus. It means her popularity was recognized to a degree. Something neither Micaiah, not Anna or even Roy can claim. Anna, who's the "Series Mascot" would have made a great AT, but she was forgotten completely for the sake of a Western Favorite.

Anna had no combative role up until FE13, that is why the thought of making her an AT probably never came up.

Secondly, Roy being a playable character in Melee and almost making it in Brawl is a hell of a lot better resume than being an Assist Trophy.

My point still stands, since it's a comparative list like Yuii said, between the same franchise, if Micaiah's on there, then so should Lyn.

The point is that Lyn's popularity was at its height during the time when Sakurai was deciding the roster whereas Micaiah's wasn't. Micaiah did not become popular until 2007 when the entire roster was already decided (except Sonic).

If Lyn isn't imporant enough to him, then he should remove Micaiah and Anna as well.

I think Micaiah should be removed too. However, Anna is definitely a dark horse. She has loads of popularity in the West, more than Lyn has right now and her popularity is even competitive with the main lord of that game, Chrom.

 

[Deleted member]

Using number of pages in a Smashboards thread as analytical proof = lost all credibility.

And the fact that you try to use "HURR Lyn is AT, Anna is not DURR" is really pathetic to be blunt. What's pre-Awakening Anna going to do as an AT, huh? Sell you items at discounted prices?

So my point still stands: I'm not going to add Lyn or remove Anna and Micaiah because of your bias.

EDIT: The only reason Micaiah would be cut would be because she is no longer much of a popular request as she was in the past. Midna would go with her for the same reason.
Geno would stay, because he's still somewhat of a popular character in both the West and East for whatever reason. (What do people see in that bugger?)

 

[Gingerbread Man]

The situation changes drastically if your catering to the smashbros fan base or FE fan base.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=38960
This does not match what we see here on the forums AT all. This is the primary reason why I think we should examine more reasons besides how successful your thread.
Quantity of reasons < Quality

 

[ChronoBound]

The situation changes drastically if your catering to the smashbros fan base or FE fan base.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=38960
This does not match what we see here on the forums AT all. This is the primary reason why I think we should examine more reasons besides how successful your thread.
Quantity of reasons < Quality

The problem is that hardcore Western FE fans are a very small demographic overall, and their beliefs are pretty different than even casual FE fans. I would say Western FE fans who have played the Japan-only FE games are less than 10% of the Western FE fanbase.

Another example for fanbase contrast depending on demographics: In Japan, FE fans don't care about strong lords as much as the West does. The official FE6 poll had Roy at the top of it, and an official character poll for the entire GBA FE trilogy also had Roy as their favorite character.

 

[Deleted member]

It significantly died out. There is a reason why no one bothered to make a Lyn support topic until you started to post a lot at this site. If you were not here, I would not be surprised if the Lyn topic was as inactive as the Micaiah one (Lyn's popularity elsewhere seems to be around the same as Micaiah



If you are using the size of support threads to support your idea that Lyn is widely supported, then Roy absolutely crushes Lyn due how big his support thread is compared to Lyn. Again, look at how long it took for a Lyn support topic to even pop up on this site. I also bet if you left this site, the meager interest in Lyn that is here would evaporate within a few months time.



In an OFFICIAL FE13 poll by NOA, Anna received nearly the same amount of votes as Chrom did. This was a poll done by NOA. Not some fan poll. If there is anyone in any position to feed information about Western popularity to Sakurai its NOA. So to NOA, they know that Anna has practically the same amount of popularity as Chrom has despite being a side character in FE13.

You also are only focusing on SmashBoards when it comes to Lyn (where Roy absolutely crushes her even here). Elsewhere, people want Lucina and Anna more when the topic of a female FE character comes up.



Right now Lyn is a slightly taller ****** than Micaiah. RIGHT NOW, more people are asking for Lucina and Anna in terms of female characters, and both those characters did well in an official poll done by NOA (and Lucina got first place on the female side for an official Japanese FE13 poll). Lyn by comparison was behind both Eliwood and Hector in the official FE7 poll.



Again. I would say this is mostly due to your own efforts towards pushing Lyn. If there was someone out there that made the same sort of aggressive push for Anna and Micaiah as you do for Lyn, I think at the very least the Anna thread would be much bigger than the Lyn thread.



Anna had no combative role up until FE13, that is why the thought of making her an AT probably never came up.

Secondly, Roy being a playable character in Melee and almost making it in Brawl is a hell of a lot better resume than being an Assist Trophy.




The point is that Lyn's popularity was at its height during the time when Sakurai was deciding the roster whereas Micaiah's wasn't. Micaiah did not become popular until 2007 when the entire roster was already decided (except Sonic).



I think Micaiah should be removed too. However, Anna is definitely a dark horse. She has loads of popularity in the West, more than Lyn has right now and her popularity is even competitive with the main lord of that game, Chrom.

It should be fair to note that Anna is a novely of sorts, because it's the first time she's got a combative role in a FE game. I think if anything, we'll be seeing her as an AT in Smash. What will happen to her popularity as the series goes on is up in the air as it's mostly dependant on how IS handles it. Still, if Anna were as big as you say, she'd have stolen the AT spot from Lyn, which as we saw, it didn't happen. Anna is once again, only poplular due to recent events, not because she's this big icon for the series.

As for Lucina and the other FE13 protags. They hog the spotlight atm because of their recentness, same way Zoroark and Ghirahim managed to garner so much popularity despite being very meh. However, once a new face shows up I can guarantee they'll likely be forgotten for being too generic.

As for me managing to create support for a dead character. For one considering there is no Roy support thread on this board, I dunno how you can make that claim. However, I won't deny that Roy DOES have more support than Lyn as that much is obvious. Still, I really haven't done anything for Lyn outside of make a thread, create a concept to express my ideas and shut up the naysayers, and mention her occasionally when I deem it necessary. If anything, I'm a lot less vocal about my support than a lot of other people around here, at least I try to be. If I was as aggressive as you say, I'd have the Lyn support thread on my sig and I'd be mentioning at every opportunity to get as many supporters as I can. However, since I realize (unlike a lot of people), that Smash Bros. isn't a goddman popularity contest, I don't bother.

On the thread sizes. I repeat a lot of the people coming to the Lyn thread and voicing support are people that don't go to any of the threads I ever post in. They simply pop in, say they support the character and are glad that there is a thread for her, and leave. Check the thread out yourself. It's not, like there is some massive campaign to get a character to regain a spotlight or anything. I simply voiced what should have been voiced ages ago as it's what people always say and murmur, but never took action in. Outside of this place, Lyn also gets plenty of support.

One final thing, I repeat, looking a Micaiah's previous popularity as a reason for her inclusion, but refusing to accept Lyn's current popularity is THE definition of bias, this goes for both you and Yuii.

Using number of pages in a Smashboards thread as analytical proof = lost all credibility.

And the fact that you try to use "HURR Lyn is AT, Anna is not DURR" is really pathetic to be blunt. What's pre-Awakening Anna going to do as an AT, huh? Sell you items at discounted prices?

So my point still stands: I'm not going to add Lyn or remove Anna and Micaiah because of your bias.

EDIT: The only reason Micaiah would be cut would be because she is no longer much of a popular request as she was in the past. Midna would go with her for the same reason.
Geno would stay, because he's still somewhat of a popular character in both the West and East for whatever reason.

>asks for proof
>proof is provided
No I don't want THAT proof.
I'm sorry, then what DO you want? I wasn't talking about post count in the respective threads. I was talking about individual posters coming to the threads to voice support. Lyn's still gets posts and there are more random people who come in and voice support for her than in Anna and Micaiah combined.
Do whatever you like, it's your thread. I at least voiced what I had to say and have my reasons.

You didn't specify what sort of proof you wanted, I simply went for what was most readily available. Regardless, support within the Smash community should be enough. Or shall we wait for Shortie's new poll which will include both of them? Will you eat your words then?

If anyone is being biased, it's you really. Check out the results on GM's post:

The situation changes drastically if your catering to the smashbros fan base or FE fan base.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=38960
This does not match what we see here on the forums AT all. This is the primary reason why I think we should examine more reasons besides how successful your thread.
Quantity of reasons < Quality

Favorite Lord:
Lyn 4.48%
Roy 1.49%
Micaiah 4.48%


Lyn and Micaiah are tied, Roy on the other hand is much less popular.

Least Favorite Lord:

Lyn 13%
Roy 26%
Micaiah 20%

Here Lyn comes out as the least hated of the 3.

Going by this, you should remove Roy and defo add Lyn.

Anyway, I'm done with this topic. I gotta get some shut eye, and there really is nothing left to discuss, as your excuse seemed to carry personal grudge for some reason. I'm not gonna sway you, nor will I try any further. I'll just wait for Shorties new poll so I can laugh silently to myself in success of knowing I was right all along.

 

[Neanderthal]

The situation changes drastically if your catering to the smashbros fan base or FE fan base.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=38960
This does not match what we see here on the forums AT all. This is the primary reason why I think we should examine more reasons besides how successful your thread.
Quantity of reasons < Quality

Great post.

Interesting that Roy appears to be by far the most hated FE character in that crowd with only Micaiah coming anywhere near.