Smash 4 Speculation Chart [WE UPDATE NOW]

[---]

Victory of Trolling.
.....it feels shallow......

And yet somehow I win in the end.

Better stop these quick responses, we're getting off topic, even if this is better than the flame war that was going on.

 

[Deleted member]

Good idea.
I'm already discussing changes with AEM for the chart that are to be made.
It's going to be shortened just a tad.

 

[Muhti]

Blaziken perhaps?

 

[Frostwraith]

Blaziken perhaps?

I don't think Blaziken is likely as of now...

 

[FlareHabanero]

For Pokemon, picking what is recent is a safe bet for now unless stated otherwise.

For your information, Pra_Mai will not be considered anything in particular until we know exactly what the hell that is. It could be Plusle and Minun or something entirely unrelated.

 

[FalKoopa]

Does Jimmy T. really have a chance?

 

[Deleted member]

Does Jimmy T. really have a chance?

He's one of the more prominent WarioWare characters along with Mona. If Sakurai goes with prominence, it will be one of the two.
If he goes by popularity, however, Ashley would be the one.

 

[Shorts]

I still think there are some reasonable choices you haven't put on here yet, but, meh. I'm not going to push Medusa, Tom Nook, Black Mage, or Geno on you.

 

[Ove]

Nintendo All-Stars!
Mario! Link! Kirby! Pikachu! ...Adeleine? ...The Goron Merchant?

Smash Brothers is a game about Nintendo's HISTORY. Have you forgotten that? What does Adeleine and "Link" the Goron have anything to do with Nintendo's or their own franchises' history?

That was the thought with the series initially. However, new times have come and if the roster is to expand, some unlikely characters could be added (now when the most popular ones already has made it). Also, I'd rather see Adeleine before, let's say Bowser Jr., if it means having a better character in the game.

Kirby and King Dedede perfectly represent Kirby 64. A Masked Link can represent Zelda Races much better than a Goron can, and even then Skull Kid is a much preferred and better rep to represent Majora's Mask.

Kirby and Dedede are already in Smash. I agree that Skull Kid would be a better representative.

Unless you can come up with a solid argument that is related to having said character being important to their franchise and Nintendo as a whole. We're done here.

Like I said earlier, they don't necessarily need to be of big importance in order to contribute to a better Smash game.

 

[AEMehr]

That was the thought with the series initially. However, new times have come and if the roster is to expand, some unlikely characters could be added (now when the most popular ones already has made it).

This is nothing more than an assumption on your part. So relevance still plays an incredibly important factor be considered as a Smash rep.

Also, I'd rather see Adeleine before, let's say Bowser Jr., if it means having a better character in the game.

Even though Bowser Jr. has done more for the Mario franchise then Adeleine has. He even has major fan support too. I find it funny how you mention Bowser Jr. too, after all his Paintbrush can allow him to do pretty much everything Adeleine can do. But again, you are entitled to your own opinion.

Kirby and Dedede are already in Smash.

This is exactly why Adeleine is not needed at all. She doesn't represent anything new for Kirby's franchise.

Like I said earlier, they don't necessarily need to be of big importance in order to contribute to a better Smash game.

Objection!

 

[Ove]

This is nothing more than an assumption on your part. So relevance still plays an incredibly important factor be considered as a Smash rep.

That is true, it is only assumptions. Relevance is indeed important to be a rep, I don't think Sakurai will add any character he can come across, even though the character in question could enhance the experience better, thus making Smash 4 a better game. But he should. And Adeleine would be a good choice.

Even though Bowser Jr. has done more for the Mario franchise then Adeleine has. He even has major fan support too. I find it funny how you mention Bowser Jr. too, after all his Paintbrush can allow him to do pretty much everything Adeleine can do. But again, you are entitled to your own opinion.

Yes, he has done more than Adeleine, but that's not the point. The point is who will be the character best suited for Smash. I'd rather have a good character that is balanced and can contribute with a bit variety in the moveset than a character that is horribly unbalanced and doesn't add anything to the already existing roster and might as well have been excluded in the first place.

As you can guess, this has nothing with popularity, chances due to prominence, importance or other similar factors to do. It's just a matter of speculation.

This is exactly why Adeleine is not needed at all. She doesn't represent anything new for Kirby's franchise.

We don't have a painter in Smash, and certainly not with a personality as Adeleine. The Kirby franchise could have done with only Kirby, neither King Dedede nor Meta Knight hasn't really added anything from the Kirby series to Smash that Kirby hasn't. Therefore, your argument is irrelevant.

Objection!

If you think that a good fighting game is only about the popularity of the characters in it, I am afraid you have to be penalized for that Objection.

 

[fogbadge]

ive been meaning to ask: who's that chap between chrom and palutena?

 

[FlareHabanero]

ive been meaning to ask: who's that chap between chrom and palutena?

Robin/My Unit. One of the main characters from Fire Emblem: Awakening.

 

[Kensho]

I ignored too... too tiring.

About another character from Wario Ware, does anyone know something about Wii U Wario Ware or his main characters? I guess that will be where Sakurai choose either Jimmy or Ashley (I really don't fir/like the idea of mona before those two at all)

But I don't actually think another Wario Ware character will make it. I don't see them with the "Nintendo All-Stars" having more better choices to go for.

 

[AEMehr]

That is true, it is only assumptions. Relevance is indeed important to be a rep, I don't think Sakurai will add any character he can come across, even though the character in question could enhance the experience better, thus making Smash 4 a better game. But he should. And Adeleine would be a good choice.

You are aware of how biased you are of this character, right?

Yes, he has done more than Adeleine, but that's not the point. The point is who will be the character best suited for Smash.

Which in this case, would be Bowser Jr.

I'd rather have a good character that is balanced and can contribute with a bit variety in the moveset than a character that is horribly unbalanced and doesn't add anything to the already existing roster and might as well have been excluded in the first place.

This is nothing more than an assumption. What are you working with Namco Bandai in balancing the characters or something? That isn't up to anyone other than the people making the game.
Also, that "bit of variety" can easily go to Bowser Jr. who could EASILY use his Paintbrush from Sunshine and pretty much take all of what Adeleine has going for her in terms of moveset.

As you can guess, this has nothing with popularity, chances due to prominence, importance or other similar factors to do. It's just a matter of speculation.

Our speculation should be based on what is popular and relevant right now. Because the characters that are popular and relevant now are the ones that will end up being playable.

We don't have a painter in Smash, and certainly not with a personality as Adeleine.

In terms of a Painter, what's wrong with Bowser Jr.? He has a Paintbrush and he has shown that he knows how to utilize it in battle. Your painter argument is shot down.
In terms of personality, what personality are you even talking about? All Adeleine has ever really done is smile and paint. She doesn't really have much of a personality with the one game she's been in. Not to mention personality is not even a key factor to becoming a playable character in smash brothers. Why would you even bring something as pointless as that into an argument for a fighting game character?

The Kirby franchise could have done with only Kirby, neither King Dedede nor Meta Knight hasn't really added anything from the Kirby series to Smash that Kirby hasn't. Therefore, your argument is irrelevant.

Again, Smash Brothers was made and has been made to represent Nintendo's HISTORY. Who are King Dedede and Meta Knight in terms of Nintendo's History?
King Dedede = Main Antagonist / Anti-Hero of the franchise.
Meta Knight = Fan Favorite Anti-Hero
I don't know how much I have to state it to you. It's a game about the company's HISTORY.

If you think that a good fighting game is only about the popularity of the characters in it, I am afraid you have to be penalized for that Objection.

In a game like Smash Brothers, the Popular characters are the ones that get chosen. They don't pick characters because of how unique they'd be, they pick them because of what they've done in their games to make them worthy of being playable in the game. Moveset and Uniqueness comes second. Also, what is even more important are characters that would make people want to buy the game. Adeleine is not somebody with this quality.
_________________________________________

I ignored too... too tiring.

About another character from Wario Ware, does anyone know something about Wii U Wario Ware or his main characters? I guess that will be where Sakurai choose either Jimmy or Ashley (I really don't fir/like the idea of mona before those two at all)

But I don't actually think another Wario Ware character will make it. I don't see them with the "Nintendo All-Stars" having more better choices to go for.

I know that Game & Wario has Mona and Jimmy T. in it for sure. I don't remember seeing any bit of Ashley yet though. She'll probably still make an appearance due to her overwhelming popularity in Japan.

 

[Ove]

I ignored too... too tiring.

About another character from Wario Ware, does anyone know something about Wii U Wario Ware or his main characters? I guess that will be where Sakurai choose either Jimmy or Ashley (I really don't fir/like the idea of mona before those two at all)

But I don't actually think another Wario Ware character will make it. I don't see them with the "Nintendo All-Stars" having more better choices to go for.

There are six Wario Ware games and they have been made to Game Boy Advance, Nintendo Gamecube, Nintendo DS, DSi Ware and Wii. The seventh installment, Game and Wario (Wii U) will soon be released in Japan, iirc. The series is currently essential for Nintendo, so a character from Wario Ware isn't unlikely.

I don't think they have revealed that much from Game and Wario. I know that Wario, 9-Volt and Jimmy T are in it, and I am assuming that we will se more characters, like Mona and Ashley.

I wouldn't mind if Mona and/or Ashley were included in Smash 4. I think Smash would benefit from more female characters.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ove. Give it a rest.

You're making yourself look bad. Saying that as nicely as I can.

 

[Frostwraith]

Unbelievable. Already 5 pages with this pointless arguing over Adeleine.

Seriously, Ove, just stop. We already get that you like Adeleine. No need to continue to shove your fanboyism down our throats.

And I thought Diddy Kong with Impa was bad enough... >_>

 

[Ove]

Ove. Give it a rest.

You're making yourself look bad. Saying that as nicely as I can.

Can you please be more precise of what I am doing wrong? I want to know. Also, I don't see the problem with my last post. It was some facts about Wario Ware, describing why I think a Wario Ware character has great chances being in Smash 4, and then my humble opinion of which characters I would like to see that isn't even controversial.

....

You are aware of how biased you are of this character, right?

Yes, that is correct.

Which in this case, would be Bowser Jr.

Possibly. We don't know that fo sure, just as we don't know if Adeleine would be better suited. I don't think we will ever know.

This is nothing more than an assumption. What are you working with Namco Bandai in balancing the characters or something? That isn't up to anyone other than the people making the game.
Also, that "bit of variety" can easily go to Bowser Jr. who could EASILY use his Paintbrush from Sunshine and pretty much take all of what Adeleine has going for her in terms of moveset.

Bowser Jr. isn't an aesthete.

Our speculation should be based on what is popular and relevant right now. Because the characters that are popular and relevant now are the ones that will end up being playable.

Yes, that is more relevant speculations than those I have brought up. Your (/GoldenYuiitusin's) chart pretty much covers most of the characters that most likely will end up being in the final product. However, I like to speculate which characters that would be optimal having in the game, independently of popularity and relevance.

So yes, before you point that out, my speculations don't necessarily belong in this thread... But I have other opinions too, and I think you all have judged me a bit too rough just because I think Adeleine is a good character. I am not a troublemaker, I just like talking about Smash...

In terms of a Painter, what's wrong with Bowser Jr.? He has a Paintbrush and he has shown that he knows how to utilize it in battle. Your painter argument is shot down.
In terms of personality, what personality are you even talking about? All Adeleine has ever really done is smile and paint. She doesn't really have much of a personality with the one game she's been in. Not to mention personality is not even a key factor to becoming a playable character in smash brothers. Why would you even bring something as pointless as that into an argument for a fighting game character?

There is nothing wrong with Bowser Jr. In fact, he is one of my favourite characters.

Personality isn't important, I agree with you. But, as I have stated earlier, it is advantageous when constructing a good single-player. And I think Smash 4 will have a story mode. It's just a neat detail.

Again, Smash Brothers was made and has been made to represent Nintendo's HISTORY. Who are King Dedede and Meta Knight in terms of Nintendo's History?
King Dedede = Main Antagonist / Anti-Hero of the franchise.
Meta Knight = Fan Favorite Anti-Hero
I don't know how much I have to state it to you. It's a game about the company's HISTORY.

Adeleine is a part of Nintendo history.

In a game like Smash Brothers, the Popular characters are the ones that get chosen. They don't pick characters because of how unique they'd be, they pick them because of what they've done in their games to make them worthy of being playable in the game. Moveset and Uniqueness comes second. Also, what is even more important are characters that would make people want to buy the game. Adeleine is not somebody with this quality.

With the characters Smash already has, I doubt people won't buy the game. And how many people would seriously consider not buying Smash 4 just because Adeleine is in it? "Screw Mario, Link, Kirby, Pikachu and all other great characters from the other Smash games, I don't want Adeleine."

Ironically, we are talking about a minority here...

I am aware of that Moveset and uniqueness comes second. However, my opinion still stands; Smash has already the most important characters. Now is the chance to focus on including more obscure characters that can contribute with new aspects.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Can you please be more precise of what I am doing wrong? I want to know. Also, I don't see the problem with my last post. It was some facts about Wario Ware, describing why I think a Wario Ware character has great chances being in Smash 4, and then my humble opinion of which characters I would like to see that isn't even controversial.

I think you know.

 

[Frostwraith]

Ove, stop.

There are also characters I want and like that aren't in the chart (Anna, for example) and you don't see me whining about it!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I have no other character that I desire to be added onto the chart. It is obvious that a lot of people like thier favorite characters and such, but because we LIKE those characters does not mean that they are at all likely.

It is highly improbable that a character like Adeleine would get in over the two characters listed, and even more unlikely that Kirby gets a character anyway.

I think at this point, obscure characters that:
A) Haven't appeared in a few years in a minor role
B) Only appeared once in an older one shot game
C) Has no significant place in their series

Are not going to show up in Smash Bros. They just aren't. Simple as that.

Characters such as an F-Zero rep can bypass this as the series hasn't had an entry and may need Smash to revive the series. Obscure characters that haven't shown up in years do not fit that mold. It would appear that any obscure character that would have to compete with: Ridley, k.Rool, Palutena, Roy/Chrom, Mewtwo, Shulk, etc... has little chance to appear.

While this is merely my opinion, it may change depending on who shows up in the trailer at E3. But as I said, characters that would be a long shot are actually SUPER long shots in the grand scheme of things. Besides retros and 3rd parties, the characters are pretty much to be expected.

 

[Deleted member]

I know that Game & Wario has Mona and Jimmy T. in it for sure. I don't remember seeing any bit of Ashley yet though. She'll probably still make an appearance due to her overwhelming popularity in Japan.

She's in it.
Pretty much, most of the characters seen in the series already are in it.
Including Fronk and Pyoro.
Ashley's game simply has not been revealed officially yet.

 

[Ove]

I think you know.

This doesn't mean anything. I don't know what you are talking about, and honestly, I don't think you have even read my posts.

Ove, stop.

There are also characters I want and like that aren't in the chart (Anna, for example) and you don't see me whining about it!

Next person that obviously hasn't read my posts. You have no idea how many characters I want for Smash 4 and that I haven't promoted just because I think Adeleine would do the job better.

Guys, with all respect, can you please explain the problem to me? I am sure that you haven't read my posts, because there are no signs of whining, aggression or similar in my messages. I like Adeleine, that's all. I have admitted several times that I respect that she won't be on the chart, and I have admitted several times that I don't think she will be in Smash 4 and I have clearly stated that I am fine with that.

My guess is that you are afraid of my long posts and simply confuse long messages with anger. That is certainly not the case.

 

[N3ON]

I think it's safe to assume, like Golden said, most of the WarioWare characters will be returning in some form. Especially given this image:

Spoiler

The majority of the characters are hinted at on there, including Jimmy T., Ashley, 9-Volt, Kat & Ana, etc. (though I think those four have already been confirmed)

I hope Mr. G&W shows up somewhere in the game though, considering they pretty much stole his name for this...


EDIT: Yeah, this one confirms all the ones that were pretty much obvious anyway:

Spoiler

 

[ChronoBound]

Okay, in case anyone does not know Adeline has only made one appearance in the Kirby series (64), and that was released all the way back in 2000. Even if you are generous and say Ado is somehow Adeline as well, that's only two series appearances.

Since then, Adeline has not been mentioned or referenced at all in the Kirby series, not even in Smash Bros.

If there is going to be a fourth Kirby character at this point, its going to be Bandana Dee due to Return to Dream Land, as well as the historical supporting role Waddle Dees have had in the Kirby series.

I have no idea how this topic basically got hijacked.

 

[FalKoopa]

Guys, with all respect, can you please explain the problem to me? I am sure that you haven't read my posts, because there are no signs of whining, aggression or similar in my messages. I like Adeleine, that's all. I have admitted several times that I respect that she won't be on the chart, and I have admitted several times that I don't think she will be in Smash 4 and I have clearly stated that I am fine with that.

My guess is that you are afraid of my long posts and simply confuse long messages with anger. That is certainly not the case.

The problem is that we don't understand why do you continue to post here, despite agreeing to all that.

We know that you are not angry.

 

[Deleted member]

The website image is a bit outdated.
Young Cricket, Kat & Ana, 9-Volt, and Captain Wario (the one underneath Mona) had been revealed on it already.

Captain Wario for Smash.

 

[AEMehr]

Can you please be more precise of what I am doing wrong? I want to know. Also, I don't see the problem with my last post. It was some facts about Wario Ware, describing why I think a Wario Ware character has great chances being in Smash 4, and then my humble opinion of which characters I would like to see that isn't even controversial.

He was talking about your posts regarding Adeleine.

Possibly. We don't know that fo sure, just as we don't know if Adeleine would be better suited. I don't think we will ever know.

We do know that Adeleine wouldn't be considered over Bowser Jr. though.

Bowser Jr. isn't an aesthete.

But he has a paintbrush and he can use to beat things up. Which is essentially what Adeleine would do in the end. (Whether intentional or not ala Phoenix Wright)

Yes, that is more relevant speculations than those I have brought up. Your (/GoldenYuiitusin's) chart pretty much covers most of the characters that most likely will end up being in the final product. However, I like to speculate which characters that would be optimal having in the game, independently of popularity and relevance.

You probably should have stated that earlier. I was assuming you were using Golden's logic as a means to support Adeleine. Otherwise there is no problem in doing that, but that isn't what this topic is about.

So yes, before you point that out, my speculations don't necessarily belong in this thread... But I have other opinions too, and I think you all have judged me a bit too rough just because I think Adeleine is a good character. I am not a troublemaker, I just like talking about Smash...

I think Adeleine would be a cool character too, but the topic was created to discuss a bunch of realistic character inclusions. Adeleine just doesn't fit the ball.

Personality isn't important, I agree with you. But, as I have stated earlier, it is advantageous when constructing a good single-player. And I think Smash 4 will have a story mode. It's just a neat detail.

I'll give you that.

Adeleine is a part of Nintendo history.

A pretty small part. But yeah, she is one.

With the characters Smash already has, I doubt people won't buy the game. And how many people would seriously consider not buying Smash 4 just because Adeleine is in it? "Screw Mario, Link, Kirby, Pikachu and all other great characters from the other Smash games, I don't want Adeleine."

Well that might be too far, but it's still pretty important to have characters that people will want to play as. Adeleine doesn't really fit that part of the bill, at least for the majority of consumers.

I am aware of that Moveset and uniqueness comes second. However, my opinion still stands; Smash has already the most important characters. Now is the chance to focus on including more obscure characters that can contribute with new aspects.

That's still argumental. Many characters that can still be considered important are still yet to be playable in the game.

_________________________________________________

Ove, stop.

There are also characters I want and like that aren't in the chart (Anna, for example) and you don't see me whining about it!

There is a new variation of the chart coming soon. So she might appear on the list. Maybe.

 

[N3ON]

The website image is a bit outdated.
Young Cricket, Kat & Ana, 9-Volt, and Captain Wario (the one underneath Mona) had been revealed on it already.

Captain Wario for Smash.

My bad, I haven't really been following Game & Wario too closely. Just used the image to show how many previous characters will still be appearing. Also excited to see possible new characters (that aren't just Wario in a new costume ).

 

[Ove]

That was a nice reply from you, Ariand/AEM and I agree with you on all points. I have nothing more to add. And my point regarding Adeleine has come through, so I am satisfied.

Too bad GoldenYuiitusin has ignored me (I am assuming he was telling the truth). This basically means that I can't bring new suggestions to the table, right?

 

[Frostwraith]

Next person that obviously hasn't read my posts. You have no idea how many characters I want for Smash 4 and that I haven't promoted just because I think Adeleine would do the job better.

Now you claim as I don't read your posts. If I hadn't read your posts, I wouldn't respond to them. I am what? Illiterate?

Guys, with all respect, can you please explain the problem to me? I am sure that you haven't read my posts, because there are no signs of whining, aggression or similar in my messages. I like Adeleine, that's all. I have admitted several times that I respect that she won't be on the chart, and I have admitted several times that I don't think she will be in Smash 4 and I have clearly stated that I am fine with that.

The problem is damn obvious. You just don't shut up about Adeleine and keep shoving her down our throats despite the fact SHE'S NOT AN IMPORTANT CHARACTER!

My guess is that you are afraid of my long posts and simply confuse long messages with anger. That is certainly not the case.

You clearly are crazy with your nonsensical assumptions.

Responses in bold...

 

[FalKoopa]

This basically means that I can't bring new suggestions to the table, right?

You can, as long as it is reasonable enough.

EDIT: Captain Wario as a palette swap would be cool.

 

[Deleted member]

My bad, I haven't really been following Game & Wario too closely. Just used the image to show how many previous characters will still be appearing. Also excited to see possible new characters (that aren't just Wario in a new costume ).

Well, every game had to have the token "alternate Wario" game. It was usually Wario-Man, then was Tiny Wario once. Now, they are doing Captain Wario for whatever reason.
One would think Wario would be against pirates in general, due to the likes of Captain Syrup and Shake King...

 

[Frostwraith]

Well, every game had to have the token "alternate Wario" game. It was usually Wario-Man, then was Tiny Wario once. Now, they are doing Captain Wario for whatever reason.
One would think Wario would be against pirates in general, due to the likes of Captain Syrup and Shake King...

Don't you remember that in Mario Kart 7, the Wario themed course is called Wario's Galleon?

His greed is taking him far enough to become a pirate.

 

[FalKoopa]

Nintendo missed two perfect chances to flesh out Waluigi.

EDIT:

Looking at his face, is he actually Waluigi in disguise?

Hmm, it seems Captain Wario had his debut in Wario: Master of Disguise

 

[Ove]

Responses in bold...

If you had read my posts, then you wouldn't have a reason to complain.

 

[Frostwraith]

If you had read my posts, then you wouldn't have a reason to complain.

What's the part of "I read your posts" you didn't understand?

 

[FalKoopa]

If you had read my posts, then you wouldn't have a reason to complain.

Lolwut?

What's the part of "I read your posts" you didn't understand?

I guess the entire part.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If you had read my posts, then you wouldn't have a reason to complain.

Ove. Man up. Don't fall on this "if you read my posts, you would understand" excuse. We have read all of your posts. We understand your points. We just don't agree with them.