Social Smash 4 Social Topic 2.0

[Deleted member]

Now, so that no one goes "ERMAGHERD GOKU IN SMASH NAO", here's where the image comes from:

A commercial for the Korean console Super Comboy from Hyundai. Yes, that Hyundai.
Back when Japanese goods were banned in South Korea; Nintendo struck a deal with Hyundai to release their systems under the Hyundai label. And since no one can do anything about it in South Korea.....we get Mario singing and dancing with Goku, the Ninja Turtles, Ryu and Chun-Li, Buster Bunny, etc.

So dang weird. But then again, we see it as that because we're from the West and don't expect these types of commercial.

 

[Knight Dude]

So dang weird. But then again, we see it as that because we're from the West and don't expect these types of commercial.

It's strange, that's for sure. But it's also awesome in a weird way.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Down right corner...you'll see Diddy Kong.

What... Is this... HOPE I'm feeling!?

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

So now around the net people be abuzz about Sony and Microsoft's E3 supposedly leaking. I'm skeptical myself, since those are some pretty big leaks plus it's right around that time for fake leaks to crop up.

For your reading pleasure/pre-e3 amusement:
Microsoft: http://thecutanddry.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/leaked-microsoft-e3-2014.html

Sony: http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/05...guerrilla-games-media-molecule-and-much-more/

Hypothetically speaking... how exactly do you guys feel about a third person Perfect Dark reboot?

If these are true, then I think Nintendo actually has a shot at winning E3 this year.

 

[Wario Bros.]

Down right corner...you'll see Diddy Kong.

Hate to break it to ya but it's been confirmed to be a printing error.

Also, just for fun, I'm trying to gather up all the cameo references of Super Smash Bros. series in other games. Here is what I've gathered so far (in chronological order):

- Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes (GCN) - Psycho Mantis will mention that Snake played Super Smash Bros. if you have a saved file of SSBM on the memory card
- Kirby & The Amazing Mirror (GBA) - Master Hand & Crazy Hand make an appearance as well as a Smash ability for Kirby
- Donkey Konga (GCN) - Multi-Man Melee 2 (called Super Smash Bros. Melee Opening in this game) is a selectable song (European release only)
- Donkey Konga 3: All You Can Eat! 50 Freshly-Picked Springtime Songs (GCN) - Multi-Man Melee 2 (called Super Smash Bros. Melee Opening in this game) is a selectable song
- Metroid Prime 3: Corruption (Wii) - Have a save file of SSBB and a Smash sticker can be unlockable
- Metroid Prime Trilogy (Wii) - Have a save file of SSBB and a Super Smash Bros. sticker can be unlockable (Metroid Prime 3: Corruption)
- Kid Icarus: Uprising (3DS) - Pit & Palutena mentions Super Smash Bros. in the tutoriols (Palutena mistakenly calls is "Super Bash Sisters")
- Kirby's Dream Collection (Wii) - Smash ability is in the game and Super Smash Bros. symbol can be seen

Have I missed any?

 

[The Original Robot boy]

The Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire Announcement came at a reall bad time for me.

I haven't played XY yet, and now I'm torn.

if you wasn't expecting gamefreak to do this then you really haven't gotten in with the times man they pull this everytime and seeing this on a 3ds i'm not surprised

 

[Wario Bros.]

I'll just leave this here...

 

[The Original Robot boy]

I'll just leave this here...

Oh god I've fallen in love

 

[relaxedexcorcist]

Hate to break it to ya but it's been confirmed to be a printing error.

Also, just for fun, I'm trying to gather up all the cameo references of Super Smash Bros. series in other games. Here is what I've gathered so far (in chronological order):

- Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes (GCN) - Psycho Mantis will mention that Snake played Super Smash Bros. if you have a saved file of SSBM on the memory card
- Kirby & The Amazing Mirror (GBA) - Master Hand & Crazy Hand make an appearance as well as a Smash ability for Kirby
- Donkey Konga (GCN) - Multi-Man Melee 2 (called Super Smash Bros. Melee Opening in this game) is a selectable song (European release only)
- Donkey Konga 3: All You Can Eat! 50 Freshly-Picked Springtime Songs (GCN) - Multi-Man Melee 2 (called Super Smash Bros. Melee Opening in this game) is a selectable song
- Metroid Prime 3: Corruption (Wii) - Have a save file of SSBB and a Smash sticker can be unlockable
- Metroid Prime Trilogy (Wii) - Have a save file of SSBB and a Super Smash Bros. sticker can be unlockable (Metroid Prime 3: Corruption)
- Kid Icarus: Uprising (3DS) - Pit & Palutena mentions Super Smash Bros. in the tutoriols (Palutena mistakenly calls is "Super Bash Sisters")
- Kirby's Dream Collection (Wii) - Smash ability is in the game and Super Smash Bros. symbol can be seen

Have I missed any?

There's a second one in Kid Icarus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6***nboMhg

EDIT: lol smashborads is censoring the URL. Here's the vid

EDIT 2: Well that didn't work either. Uhhhh.

There.

 

[Wario Bros.]

There's a second one in Kid Icarus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6***nboMhg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6***nboMhg

I think SmashBoard's language filter is messing up the YouTube link (just add a space or something and I'll change it to watch it).

EDIT: I see you got it now, nvmd

 

[BluePikmin11]

Sorry for small image, but possible leak, the list of games:
*Pokemon Art Academy
*Wii Play U
*LEGO Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles The Video Game
*WatchDogs
*NintendogsUnleashed "A console Nintendogs?" (Nintendogs in combat? )
*Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS.
*Skylanders Trap Team
*Sonic Boom

 

[Wario Bros.]

Sorry for small image, but possible leak, the list of games:
*Pokemon Art Academy
*Wii Play U
*LEGO Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles The Video Game
*WatchDogs
*NintendogsUnleashed "A console Nintendogs?" (Nintendogs in combat? )
*Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS.
*Skylanders Trap Team
*Sonic Boom

Source?

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think this is the source:
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/a-few-nintendo-e3-2014-games-leaked.453968887/

 

[mimgrim]

I think this is the source:
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/a-few-nintendo-e3-2014-games-leaked.453968887/

Can I get a screenshot of it?

It requires a IGN account to view and I don't feel like making one. :L

 

[relaxedexcorcist]

What's the Zelda game? Also hope thats not true. Most of the games on that list don't interest me.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Don't have access to gaming websites right now, using cache, so i can't view it with my account.

What's the Zelda game? Also hope thats not true. Most of the games on that list don't interest me.

Might be Hyrule Warriors.

 

[Wario Bros.]

Don't have access to gaming websites right now, using cache, so i can't view it with my account.


Might be Hyrule Warriors.

Hyrule Warriors isn't the only Wii U Zelda game in the works. There's still The Legend of Zelda XVIII, which has been confirmed for E3.

 

[mimgrim]

Lack of Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem saddens me.

As a result I hope it is false. We haven't had news on the game for over a ****ing year.

 

[relaxedexcorcist]

@ mimgrim
Well SMT x FE isn't dead yet if that helps.

Might be Hyrule Warriors.

Meh. Hopefully that they show there actual Zelda game too.

 

[Morbi]

Don't have access to gaming websites right now, using cache, so i can't view it with my account.


Might be Hyrule Warriors.

Seriously, we have to make an account?! WHY?!

 

[mimgrim]

@ mimgrim
Well SMT x FE isn't dead yet if that helps.

Lack of news though. We literally don't know anything about the game other then; It is a SMT-FE crossover, FE and SMT will probably have at least the characters shown in the trailer, and that it will be an RPG (but not what kind of RPG). That's it. ;-;.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Doraemon will localized to America for the first time (specifically being on Disney XD) and I can tell they will "go 4Kids on it." Those of you who've seen what they did to One Piece and Yugioh in the past should know what I'm talking about. >.>

 

[Morbi]

Doraemon will localized to America for the first time (specifically being on Disney XD) and I can tell they will "go 4Kids on it." Those of you who've seen what they did to One Piece and Yugioh in the past should know what I'm talking about. >.>

That was so long ago, is "4Kids" even the same? I don't even know what Doraemon is though.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

That was so long ago, is "4Kids" even the same? I don't even know what Doraemon is though.

4Kids did get banked and replaced with someone else around a few years ago. But that's different story.

Doraemon is a comedy about a robotic cat from the future and his daily life with a boy named Nobita. It's a children's anime, but is notorious for its usage of comical nudity involving the protagonists. Either way, I've heard that it's Japan's equivalent of Mickey Mouse and ran for a while.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

My final score in Mario golf was 144 BTW

It's the most it would let me get

My character was still disappointed though

 

[FalKoopa]

You're telling me Doraemon isn't broadcast in America already?

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

http://rebellioustreecko.deviantart.com/art/Omega-Ruby-and-Alpha-Sapphire-wishlist-453066429

Um, yeah. Do you think OR/AS will be referenced in Smash?
Maybe in a trophy, since it's still in development.

----

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

You're telling me Doraemon isn't broadcast in America already?

Yeah, we haven't had it in years because many companies did not want the challenge of dubbing a hundred episodes. Disney's taking the opportunity for money and marketing him to the West.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Just had a thought.

Imagine if Nintendo had shown off OR/AS during E3, along with trailers for Ridley and Mewtwo in SSB4.

In front of a live audience.

Try to imagine the reaction.

-----

 

[Fatmanonice]

He's just another random ally and didn't bring anything of note to the overall series in the end. He has a nice personality(so to speak), but that's it. He didn't give notable advice(Peppy), play a major role in the story(Krystal when she appears), adds gameplay choices via vehicles(Slippy), or is an actual villain/anti-hero(Wolf). He's just there among the "main cast" and that's it. I don't see any true notability among the series whatsoever. He's just pretty much the Toad at this point.

StarFox just had enough appeal to get 3 characters. Falco's only reason for addition was because he was a clone, not having the potential to be highly unique from the start. Wolf was still on there while being unique from the start. He didn't remove any clones that were distinct to a degree anyway(except Roy). Falco is a different person from Fox. Ganondorf, Young Link(updated to Toon Link) were completely different people and had potential for interesting movesets. Dr. Mario was still another version of Mario and a fairly easy choice to cut, while Pichu was not terribly different from Pikachu except hurting itself. Mewtwo was worked on, but had to go against 4 new characters and 2 of the original 12. Not exactly easy to deal with(he also was irrelevant anyway, having zero movies, anime, or game importance anymore. Not that he was important game-wise either. He was just there like the rest of the Gen 1 Legendaries).

There's only one worth cutting if any, and it's still Falco. Wolf also fills out the more needed villain slot as well. It'd be as ridiculous as getting rid of Bowser or Ganondorf at this point. And no, I do not consider being in multiple games alone to matter. Falco wasn't there from the start, he was just a quick clone addition like the rest. His real importance in the StarFox series is "just there for the ride". Even Jigglypuff has the original 12 status. I can't see Sakurai looking towards StarFox or Mother for cuts anyway. Pokemon, Fire Emblem, and 3rd Party are really the only ones that make a bit of sense overall. He's done it before. Mario too, but he already returned all of the Brawl guys, and Dr. Mario has no reason to come back at this point(and custom movesets should allow you to remake his Melee moveset, making a costume fine now. The reason it wasn't a costume was because of the differences between the two, namely the Megavitamins, something regular Mario just can't do, till possibly 4 anyway). One thing to also keep in mind is that Pichu itself starred as basically a protagonist of a movie(as the Pichu Bros.), Ganondorf is another main villain, Roy is a main character, Dr. Mario is a main character(of his own series), and Young Link is also the star of his own set of games, especially according to Sakurai. Falco is not a main protagonist, stars in anything besides a secondary player, or is a main villain. His importance is vastly overstated. Also doesn't have the original 12 status, another kicker. I don't see him staying between him and Wolf at all. He literally has nothing over Wolf at this point.

First off, Wolf isn't even a real villain. He's the equivalent of a boss character in all three games he's in. He's an assassin for hire in Star Fox 64 and the fights with him in Assault and Command are basically "misunderstandings" and side tracks of the main plot. Dark Link is more of a villain than Wolf and that says a lot. Saying he's on par with Bowser and Ganondorf is a gross exaggeration of the character's credentials. Bowser and Ganon/Ganondorf are the final bosses of a vast majority of the games in their respective franchises and are the ones that are behind the main conflict of the plot. Wolf is someone you bump into once or twice or can even completely avoid if you take the right paths in 64 and Command. His only real moment of significance was the ending of Assault with his "sacrifice" winding up being little more than a fake out.

I also think you give way too much credit to the originality of Wolf's character. Fox McCloud. Wolf O'Donnell. Fox. Wolf. Wolf is basically just Wafox but at least Wario has an extensive history that sets him well apart from Mario. Hell, even Waluigi has more differences between himself and Luigi than Wolf does with Fox. His personality is basically just the opposite and that's how they set up his moveset too. Fox's lazer is fast and weak. Wolf's is slow and strong. Where Fox usually uses his feet, Wolf uses his hands (or rather claws). Fox is fast and with a lot of quick, weak attacks. Wolf is slow and has a lot of attacks that show brute force. It's hardly creative. At least the similarities between Falco and Fox make sense because they trained at the same military academy and have been on the same team for years. I'll even be bold enough to say that, because of this, the similarities between Fox and Falco make just as much sense as the similarities between Mario and Luigi.

Going more off the discussion of Wolf's "originality", let's talk about his appearances in Smash. In the Melee intro, he's merely a recolor of Fox with an eye patch because that's how Sakurai originally envisioned the character. They ended up going with Falco because, from a distance, Fox and Wolf were hard to tell apart because of just how similar they were. They dealt with this in Brawl by giving Wolf an exaggerated stance and giving him an awkward limp when he runs but, again, they pretty much did that not because there was never any indication in the games that Wolf is like this (in fact, he's actually significantly more level headed than Fox so his "wild and savage" attack style doesn't even fit his personality) but to make sure that nobody confused the two from a distance. Again, this is how they made Wolf's moveset: going out of their way to make his movements the opposite of Fox.

Then there's the matter that Wolf was much more of an after thought than Falco as an addition to Brawl. Falco's entrance to the storyline of the SSE is even before the halfway point, Wolf wasn't even included. Looking at the Brawl disc data, it even suggests that Wolf was the final character fully implemented into the game, even after Sonic who we know wasn't even finalized until July/August 2007. Seeing how Falco got retooled complete with new animations and significant changes made to some of his attacks to further set him apart from Fox, Falco was hardly a +1 compared to Wolf. Keep in mind that Falco was chosen over Mewtwo, one of the most popular Pokemon still to this day and a character with a completely original moveset, so it goes to show that the character was hardly seen as readily expendable.

As said in my last post, Falco has been in every single game and was crucial to the plots of Adventures and Command. The events in Adventures pretty much started because Falco left Star Fox and in Command, Falco plays a major role in 4 of the 9 available paths with Wolf only having a major role in about 2 of them with Krystal's switch to team Star Wolf being a significantly bigger focus than Wolf himself. It doesn't really matter that he doesn't do all that much in the first two games because there's still a strong emphasis on the survival of the whole team. Fox is the leader but Slippy, Falco, and Peppy are still important to the overall mission of the games and you can't even win medals if any of them are shot down.

Finally, the question begs to be asked: which do you think Smash fans would be more upset about? Cutting a character whose been with the Smash Bros franchise for 11 years, one of the more notable characters in the competitive scene for the last two games, and one who has spawned several memes over the years that are significant to the Smash community (Pizza cake, hands off my bread, "dat ain't Falco", etc) or one that's been around for six with an overall lukewarm reception? I think the answer speaks for itself. Putting both Star Fox and Smash into consideration, Falco's overall significance runs circles around Wolf.

 

[Eight Melodies]

Hate to break it to ya but it's been confirmed to be a printing error.

Also, just for fun, I'm trying to gather up all the cameo references of Super Smash Bros. series in other games. Here is what I've gathered so far (in chronological order):

- Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes (GCN) - Psycho Mantis will mention that Snake played Super Smash Bros. if you have a saved file of SSBM on the memory card
- Kirby & The Amazing Mirror (GBA) - Master Hand & Crazy Hand make an appearance as well as a Smash ability for Kirby
- Donkey Konga (GCN) - Multi-Man Melee 2 (called Super Smash Bros. Melee Opening in this game) is a selectable song (European release only)
- Donkey Konga 3: All You Can Eat! 50 Freshly-Picked Springtime Songs (GCN) - Multi-Man Melee 2 (called Super Smash Bros. Melee Opening in this game) is a selectable song
- Metroid Prime 3: Corruption (Wii) - Have a save file of SSBB and a Smash sticker can be unlockable
- Metroid Prime Trilogy (Wii) - Have a save file of SSBB and a Super Smash Bros. sticker can be unlockable (Metroid Prime 3: Corruption)
- Kid Icarus: Uprising (3DS) - Pit & Palutena mentions Super Smash Bros. in the tutoriols (Palutena mistakenly calls is "Super Bash Sisters")
- Kirby's Dream Collection (Wii) - Smash ability is in the game and Super Smash Bros. symbol can be seen

Have I missed any?

I believe there's DLC in Fire Emblem: Awakening called Smash Brethren where you fight Roy and Ike.

 

[FalKoopa]

Yeah, we haven't had it in years because many companies did not want the challenge of dubbing a hundred episodes. Disney's taking the opportunity for money and marketing him to the West.

I see. Well, it was a runaway success here, so I'd expect the same there too. The effort will be worth it.

 

[Wario Bros.]

I believe there's DLC in Fire Emblem: Awakening called Smash Brethren where you fight Roy and Ike.

Ah, forgot about that. Thanx!

 

[Morbi]

Just had a thought.

Imagine if Nintendo had shown off OR/AS during E3, along with trailers for Ridley and Mewtwo in SSB4.

In front of a live audience.

Try to imagine the reaction.

-----

I miss the reactions at E3, it really added to the experience.

 

[Morbi]

First off, Wolf isn't even a real villain. He's the equivalent of a boss character in all three games he's in. He's an assassin for hire in Star Fox 64 and the fights with him in Assault and Command are basically "misunderstandings" and side tracks of the main plot. Dark Link is more of a villain than Wolf and that says a lot. Saying he's on par with Bowser and Ganondorf is a gross exaggeration of the character's credentials. Bowser and Ganon/Ganondorf are the final bosses of a vast majority of the games in their respective franchises and are the ones that are behind the main conflict of the plot. Wolf is someone you bump into once or twice or can even completely avoid if you take the right paths in 64 and Command. His only real moment of significance was the ending of Assault with his "sacrifice" winding up being little more than a fake out.

I also think you give way too much credit to the originality of Wolf's character. Fox McCloud. Wolf O'Donnell. Fox. Wolf. Wolf is basically just Wafox but at least Wario has an extensive history that sets him well apart from Mario. Hell, even Waluigi has more differences between himself and Luigi than Wolf does with Fox. His personality is basically just the opposite and that's how they set up his moveset too. Fox's lazer is fast and weak. Wolf's is slow and strong. Where Fox usually uses his feet, Wolf uses his hands (or rather claws). Fox is fast and with a lot of quick, weak attacks. Wolf is slow and has a lot of attacks that show brute force. It's hardly creative. At least the similarities between Falco and Fox make sense because they trained at the same military academy and have been on the same team for years. I'll even be bold enough to say that, because of this, the similarities between Fox and Falco make just as much sense as the similarities between Mario and Luigi.

Going more off the discussion of Wolf's "originality", let's talk about his appearances in Smash. In the Melee intro, he's merely a recolor of Fox with an eye patch because that's how Sakurai originally envisioned the character. They ended up going with Falco because, from a distance, Fox and Wolf were hard to tell apart because of just how similar they were. They dealt with this in Brawl by giving Wolf an exaggerated stance and giving him an awkward limp when he runs but, again, they pretty much did that not because there was never any indication in the games that Wolf is like this (in fact, he's actually significantly more level headed than Fox so his "wild and savage" attack style doesn't even fit his personality) but to make sure that nobody confused the two from a distance. Again, this is how they made Wolf's moveset: going out of their way to make his movements the opposite of Fox.

Then there's the matter that Wolf was much more of an after thought than Falco as an addition to Brawl. Falco's entrance to the storyline of the SSE is even before the halfway point, Wolf wasn't even included. Looking at the Brawl disc data, it even suggests that Wolf was the final character fully implemented into the game, even after Sonic who we know wasn't even finalized until July/August 2007. Seeing how Falco got retooled complete with new animations and significant changes made to some of his attacks to further set him apart from Fox, Falco was hardly a +1 compared to Wolf. Keep in mind that Falco was chosen over Mewtwo, one of the most popular Pokemon still to this day and a character with a completely original moveset, so it goes to show that the character was hardly seen as readily expendable.

As said in my last post, Falco has been in every single game and was crucial to the plots of Adventures and Command. The events in Adventures pretty much started because Falco left Star Fox and in Command, Falco plays a major role in 4 of the 9 available paths with Wolf only having a major role in about 2 of them with Krystal's switch to team Star Wolf being a significantly bigger focus than Wolf himself. It doesn't really matter that he doesn't do all that much in the first two games because there's still a strong emphasis on the survival of the whole team. Fox is the leader but Slippy, Falco, and Peppy are still important to the overall mission of the games and you can't even win medals if any of them are shot down.

Finally, the question begs to be asked: which do you think Smash fans would be more upset about? Cutting a character whose been with the Smash Bros franchise for 11 years, one of the more notable characters in the competitive scene for the last two games, and one who has spawned several memes over the years that are significant to the Smash community (Pizza cake, hands off my bread, "dat ain't Falco", etc) or one that's been around for six with an overall lukewarm reception? I think the answer speaks for itself. Putting both Star Fox and Smash into consideration, Falco's overall significance runs circles around Wolf.

The one with the completely unique move-set and different play-style.

Edit- I apologize for the double post, I got all into reading your dissertation on Wolf. Haha.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

First off, Wolf isn't even a real villain. He's the equivalent of a boss character in all three games he's in. He's an assassin for hire in Star Fox 64 and the fights with him in Assault and Command are basically "misunderstandings" and side tracks of the main plot. Dark Link is more of a villain than Wolf and that says a lot. Saying he's on par with Bowser and Ganondorf is a gross exaggeration of the character's credentials. Bowser and Ganon/Ganondorf are the final bosses of a vast majority of the games in their respective franchises and are the ones that are behind the main conflict of the plot. Wolf is someone you bump into once or twice or can even completely avoid if you take the right paths in 64 and Command. His only real moment of significance was the ending of Assault with his "sacrifice" winding up being little more than a fake out.

Wolf is still a villain in his first appearance, and only goes anti-hero in later games. Not much different from Bowser. And yes, he's on par with them in Smash entirely. No exaggeration whatsoever.

I also think you give way too much credit to the originality of Wolf's character. Fox McCloud. Wolf O'Donnell. Fox. Wolf. Wolf is basically just Wafox but at least Wario has an extensive history that sets him well apart from Mario. Hell, even Waluigi has more differences between himself and Luigi than Wolf does with Fox. His personality is basically just the opposite and that's how they set up his moveset too. Fox's lazer is fast and weak. Wolf's is slow and strong. Where Fox usually uses his feet, Wolf uses his hands (or rather claws). Fox is fast and with a lot of quick, weak attacks. Wolf is slow and has a lot of attacks that show brute force. It's hardly creative. At least the similarities between Falco and Fox make sense because they trained at the same military academy and have been on the same team for years. I'll even be bold enough to say that, because of this, the similarities between Fox and Falco make just as much sense as the similarities between Mario and Luigi.

No. Falco is nowhere near Luigi's status. He'd have to have his own game to be close to that. He's just another guy. Wolf is far more creative in his moveset than Falco ever was. He's an original character.

Going more off the discussion of Wolf's "originality", let's talk about his appearances in Smash. In the Melee intro, he's merely a recolor of Fox with an eye patch because that's how Sakurai originally envisioned the character. They ended up going with Falco because, from a distance, Fox and Wolf were hard to tell apart because of just how similar they were. They dealt with this in Brawl by giving Wolf an exaggerated stance and giving him an awkward limp when he runs but, again, they pretty much did that not because there was never any indication in the games that Wolf is like this (in fact, he's actually significantly more level headed than Fox so his "wild and savage" attack style doesn't even fit his personality) but to make sure that nobody confused the two from a distance. Again, this is how they made Wolf's moveset: going out of their way to make his movements the opposite of Fox.

They gave him an original moveset. Plain and simple. And that "eyepatch" and such is his original design anyway. It has nothing to do with Sakurai at that point. He just went with what was available at the time. Wolf literally had very little original design before Melee, so he had little choice.

Then there's the matter that Wolf was much more of an after thought than Falco as an addition to Brawl. Falco's entrance to the storyline of the SSE is even before the halfway point, Wolf wasn't even included. Looking at the Brawl disc data, it even suggests that Wolf was the final character fully implemented into the game, even after Sonic who we know wasn't even finalized until July/August 2007. Seeing how Falco got retooled complete with new animations and significant changes made to some of his attacks to further set him apart from Fox, Falco was hardly a +1 compared to Wolf. Keep in mind that Falco was chosen over Mewtwo, one of the most popular Pokemon still to this day and a character with a completely original moveset, so it goes to show that the character was hardly seen as readily expendable.

I call bull**** on Wolf being an afterthought. I don't buy in any way he wasn't planned for the game. Not for the SSE, obviously, but the game itself, I highly doubt he wasn't there already. I don't believe at all the order of the data has any relevance whatsoever and never have and never will. It's completely irrelevant to me.

The only reason Falco was chosen over Mewtwo is because we had 6 Pokemon without Mewtwo. We'd have only half that for StarFox. Sakurai cutting any SF characters over Pokemon characters(which already has twice as much as SF in Melee too) makes no sense. Mewtwo had nothing going for it whatsoever to return. It had to face off against the Original 12's two Pokemon, who had seniority and 4 new Pokemon. Fact of the matter is, there's tons of Pokemon. Some being left out was expected, and Pichu and Mewtwo just weren't that relevant or important. Also, Falco was still currently a regular playable character in the SF games during Brawl's development. It made sense he came back after Mewtwo, who only had Gen 1 and the remakes going for it. It didn't have a single recent movie. Being popular alone wasn't going to help Mewtwo at all, as it brought nothing new to the table compared to Lucario, Pokemon Trainer(and all 3 Pokemon), and wasn't in 64 either, something that is quite important that we can tell.

As said in my last post, Falco has been in every single game and was crucial to the plots of Adventures and Command. The events in Adventures pretty much started because Falco left Star Fox and in Command, Falco plays a major role in 4 of the 9 available paths with Wolf only having a major role in about 2 of them with Krystal's switch to team Star Wolf being a significantly bigger focus than Wolf himself. It doesn't really matter that he doesn't do all that much in the first two games because there's still a strong emphasis on the survival of the whole team. Fox is the leader but Slippy, Falco, and Peppy are still important to the overall mission of the games and you can't even win medals if any of them are shot down.

Command is also the least popular. Adventures is nice and all, and why he easily got back into Brawl. Also, the medals thing really doesn't make Falco anything special at all, since Peppy and Slippy still did way more overall(especially before Brawl). The only thing Falco could bring by the time of Melee was just being a clone. He wasn't good enough to be an original character or even a partial clone. Only Wolf got that, and that's because he isn't just like Fox in the games either. He has a different ship, different stats in Assault as well. There's a reason for that; Other than their looks, they weren't meant to be alike much at all.

Finally, the question begs to be asked: which do you think Smash fans would be more upset about? Cutting a character whose been with the Smash Bros franchise for 11 years, one of the more notable characters in the competitive scene for the last two games, and one who has spawned several memes over the years that are significant to the Smash community (Pizza cake, hands off my bread, "dat ain't Falco", etc) or one that's been around for six with an overall lukewarm reception? I think the answer speaks for itself. Putting both Star Fox and Smash into consideration, Falco's overall significance runs circles around Wolf.

Easily with Wolf gone. Clones have been whined about for ages, and Wolf managed to not be a carbon copy of Fox from the start in Smash. Falco is not even close to nearly as significant until after Melee itself, notably. And in only two of the many games he appears in. Wolf was always a notable enemy of Fox(since his debut, of course), and was even meant to appear in the first game itself, not just 64.

I expect both Falco and Wolf to appear, but I still completely doubt Falco would stay if one had to be cut. With the exception of Mewtwo, and possibly Squirtle, and Ivysaur(and notably this only applies to Pokemon), Sakurai has thrown out clones over originals every time. No matter their significance.

 

[Frostwraith]

Doraemon? I used to watch that as a child. lol (Watched it dubbed in Spanish with Portuguese subs, so... subdubception? Whatever.)

Only now is America getting it? Odd. I knew for a long time that anime was a big thing in Japan.

(I don't give a **** if I'm late on this, by the way.)

 

[MSmariosonic]

 

[Kamikazek]

A lot of Stuff about Wolf and Falco

I usually think you're a pretty reasonable debater but you're being WAY fallacy...ish in this argument. You're ignoring or misinterpreting points, speaking in absolutes emphasized multiple times over about things that are in no sense absolute and trying to make them absolutes and over emphasizing it only weakens your argument, declaring points irrelevant to the argument on the grounds that you don't agree with them even when whether true or not they are clearly relevant and do have supporting evidence, making up rules out of patterns that are quite possibly coincidence then bringing up exceptions to those rules yourself but saying they don't matter, making all kinds of assumptions about the reasoning of the developers that there is no way of knowing about and passing it off as fact but discrediting competing assumptions as if they're clearly wrong, using incredibly roundabout and tangential arguments to support your point. I mean not like any of those things are uncommon in Smash debates but...

Like I'm sorry, and I think there's arguments that can be put in favor of Falco or Wolf, but I don't think you're doing your side of the argument many favors.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Wolf is still a villain in his first appearance, and only goes anti-hero in later games. Not much different from Bowser. And yes, he's on par with them in Smash entirely. No exaggeration whatsoever.

It's a huge exaggeration because Wolf wasn't even the main villain in Star Fox 64, Andross was, and, again, the fight with him is technically optional. Again, Bowser has been a major character in almost every major Mario game since the beginning which means that he has well over 100 appearances in the franchise while Wolf's appearance sit at three games and 60% of the overall franchise. It's not even comparable. Saying Wolf is on the same level as Bowser is like saying Kamek or Birdo are too.

No. Falco is nowhere near Luigi's status. He'd have to have his own game to be close to that. He's just another guy. Wolf is far more creative in his moveset than Falco ever was. He's an original character.

Falco isn't near Luigi's status but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. Both Falco and Wolf are semiclones of Fox but Falco's similarities with Fox make a whole lot more sense than Wolf's. In Smash, as I pointed out, Wolf is essentially inverted Fox kind of like how Captain Falcon and Ganondorf were made to be opposites of each other. The situation, however, is not the same because 1. Ganondorf is basically Nintendo's second most important villain and significantly more important than the person he rips off in Smash and 2. they're from two completely different franchises. If Ganondorf had wound up as Black Shadow, we'd have the same issue as Fox and Wolf: two characters from the same franchise made to basically be opposites of each other but that is not the case. It's not as ostentatious as Link to Dark Link or Sonic to Shadow but it's still far from subtle.

They gave him an original moveset. Plain and simple. And that "eyepatch" and such is his original design anyway. It has nothing to do with Sakurai at that point. He just went with what was available at the time. Wolf literally had very little original design before Melee, so he had little choice.

Again, it's not totally original. He's basically Fox's opposite in almost every regard, right down to how he moves.

I call bull**** on Wolf being an afterthought. I don't buy in any way he wasn't planned for the game. Not for the SSE, obviously, but the game itself, I highly doubt he wasn't there already. I don't believe at all the order of the data has any relevance whatsoever and never have and never will. It's completely irrelevant to me.

Animation takes a long, long time to make. Even things that are a few minutes long can take months to make, even when done by professionals. Considering Falco was in 10 cutscenes compared to Wolf's 1, that means a lot more planning went into Falco's inclusion in Brawl than Wolf. It also doesn't help Wolf's case that it's estimated that the SSE took up roughly 3/5ths of the overall development time with him winding up as an after story side quest.

The only reason Falco was chosen over Mewtwo is because we had 6 Pokemon without Mewtwo. We'd have only half that for StarFox. Sakurai cutting any SF characters over Pokemon characters(which already has twice as much as SF in Melee too) makes no sense. Mewtwo had nothing going for it whatsoever to return. It had to face off against the Original 12's two Pokemon, who had seniority and 4 new Pokemon. Fact of the matter is, there's tons of Pokemon. Some being left out was expected, and Pichu and Mewtwo just weren't that relevant or important. Also, Falco was still currently a regular playable character in the SF games during Brawl's development. It made sense he came back after Mewtwo, who only had Gen 1 and the remakes going for it. It didn't have a single recent movie. Being popular alone wasn't going to help Mewtwo at all, as it brought nothing new to the table compared to Lucario, Pokemon Trainer(and all 3 Pokemon), and wasn't in 64 either, something that is quite important that we can tell.

Mewtwo was a whole lot more relevant, important, and popular than Jigglypuff at the time, especially with Gen One being remade only a few years before Brawl was announced. Even with Jigglypuff being part of the original 12, there's a lot that shows that, like Wolf, she sat on the razor's edge too and was added fairly late.

Command is also the least popular. Adventures is nice and all, and why he easily got back into Brawl. Also, the medals thing really doesn't make Falco anything special at all, since Peppy and Slippy still did way more overall(especially before Brawl). The only thing Falco could bring by the time of Melee was just being a clone. He wasn't good enough to be an original character or even a partial clone. Only Wolf got that, and that's because he isn't just like Fox in the games either. He has a different ship, different stats in Assault as well. There's a reason for that; Other than their looks, they weren't meant to be alike much at all.

As you said earlier, Roy and Ganondorf were clones too despite being major characters so it was hardly as damning of a factor as you make it out to be. The fact that Falco was one of the two clones that was spared from being outright cut from Brawl adds to this too.

Easily with Wolf gone. Clones have been whined about for ages, and Wolf managed to not be a carbon copy of Fox from the start in Smash. Falco is not even close to nearly as significant until after Melee itself, notably. And in only two of the many games he appears in. Wolf was always a notable enemy of Fox(since his debut, of course), and was even meant to appear in the first game itself, not just 64.

Brawl had no true clones, only semiclones: Lucas, Ganondorf, Luigi, Falco, Wolf, and Toon Link. It doesn't matter that Falco was more cloneish in Melee because 1. they bothered to keep him in Brawl unlike Pichu, Doc, Roy, and Young Link and 2. they adjusted him to be even less like Fox, just like Ganondorf was made to be less like Captain Falcon and Toon Link less than Young Link and thus in turn like Link.

Also, on the topic of Wolf's overall antagonist roles:

"Just what I needed to see. Star Wolf..."- Fox, Star Fox 64.

Even in game Fox sees Team Star Wolf as more of an annoyance than a serious threat so it's still a bit of stretch to call Wolf a major villain.

I expect both Falco and Wolf to appear, but I still completely doubt Falco would stay if one had to be cut. With the exception of Mewtwo, and possibly Squirtle, and Ivysaur(and notably this only applies to Pokemon), Sakurai has thrown out clones over originals every time. No matter their significance.

Neither Falco or Wolf are completely original but Falco has history both in Smash and Star Fox and has rolled off the chopping block once already. With Lucas and Wolf being the only not completely original new additions in Brawl, using your argument, they would be more likely to be cut but, even compared to Lucas, Wolf still has significantly less going for him. Lucas was in the starting roster while Wolf was unlockable. Lucas stars in his own game, Wolf doesn't. Being a reincarnation of Ness, his similarities with Ness make more sense than Wolf's similarities with Fox. Lucas was a big character in the SSE and arguably the only character that had any real character development while Wolf was an after the credits secret. The list goes on so, aside from Snake whose inclusion relies entirely on Konami's cooperation, I'd argue that Wolf is the weakest candidate to make a comeback if the 4 character cut rumor ends up being true.