MSmariosonic
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2013
- Messages
- 5,856
- Location
- Heaven, as of december 7th
- NNID
- kidtendo1996
- 3DS FC
- 3566-1932-7732
- Switch FC
- SW 0383 4539 4118
Last one...
![](https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/10259816_603920319706571_7894119783574326327_n.png)
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Bowser is also not the main villain of many Mario games too. Mario Party especially. Where he's just there in some cases. The real villain is the guy who "created" the mini-games and boards. He's not the main villain of some of the RPG's as well, just showing up or even being a hero. This is why I consider them no different in the end. Being a villain slightly more often doesn't much make him really "different". You seem to be misunderstanding the comparison. The only difference between the two is Bowser is the main villain more often. They're otherwise extremely similar overall. Shows up in the most games, generally a villain, rarely does good stuff, both notable in and unique additions to Smash.It's a huge exaggeration because Wolf wasn't even the main villain in Star Fox 64, Andross was, and, again, the fight with him is technically optional. Again, Bowser has been a major character in almost every major Mario game since the beginning which means that he has well over 100 appearances in the franchise while Wolf's appearance sit at three games and 60% of the overall franchise. It's not even comparable. Saying Wolf is on the same level as Bowser is like saying Kamek or Birdo are too.
No. Wolf is still far too different to even be close to being like Ganondorf. He's way closer to comparing Jigglypuff and Kirby at best(in Melee/Brawl, that is). Kind of similar, but highly different in the end. Wolf barely is a clone. Two moves in common are all he has. Down B and Final Smash. Everything else is different.Falco isn't near Luigi's status but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. Both Falco and Wolf are semiclones of Fox but Falco's similarities with Fox make a whole lot more sense than Wolf's. In Smash, as I pointed out, Wolf is essentially inverted Fox kind of like how Captain Falcon and Ganondorf were made to be opposites of each other. The situation, however, is not the same because 1. Ganondorf is basically Nintendo's second most important villain and significantly more important than the person he rips off in Smash and 2. they're from two completely different franchises. If Ganondorf had wound up as Black Shadow, we'd have the same issue as Fox and Wolf: two characters from the same franchise made to basically be opposites of each other but that is not the case. It's not as ostentatious as Link to Dark Link or Sonic to Shadow but it's still far from subtle.
And also why calling him even a semi-clone is a large exaggeration. Two moves in common don't make him a clone at this point.Again, it's not totally original. He's basically Fox's opposite in almost every regard, right down to how he moves.
That only explains why he got added late, but it has nothing to do with why he was added in the first place. He was always going to be in the game. And for what was likely last minute programming, Sakurai actually bothered to make him a very unique character, putting far more care into his actual gameplay than Falco's. Cutscenes don't mean much, especially when they're going to be gone in 4, the only thing Falco had going for him in Brawl of note at all.Animation takes a long, long time to make. Even things that are a few minutes long can take months to make, even when done by professionals. Considering Falco was in 10 cutscenes compared to Wolf's 1, that means a lot more planning went into Falco's inclusion in Brawl than Wolf. It also doesn't help Wolf's case that it's estimated that the SSE took up roughly 3/5ths of the overall development time with him winding up as an after story side quest.
She was added fairly late because of the SSE, not because she was an afterthought. Same as everybody except Sonic(not even planned at first) and the Forbidden 7(who didn't get in). No, he was not even close to highly relevant over Jigglypuff. They were much closer to being in the same boat entirely. Everything that made Mewtwo relevant(the movies) were done with. He was just another Gen 1 guy. No more, no less. He was not important in FR/LG whatsoever. He just existed. Jigglypuff had the original 12 status, which immediately made her the more important choice. People overrate Mewtwo's importance, which is not that high to anything beyond the Anime and its Movies at best. Popularity-wise, Jigglypuff was already a full contender against Mewtwo, and part of why she got in 64 over him, the other was programming.Mewtwo was a whole lot more relevant, important, and popular than Jigglypuff at the time, especially with Gen One being remade only a few years before Brawl was announced. Even with Jigglypuff being part of the original 12, there's a lot that shows that, like Wolf, she sat on the razor's edge too and was added fairly late.
You didn't read the part where only Pichu was going to be cut entirely. Because it was Pikachu but more, and didn't star as a protagonist in his own game or a key antagonist. Roy wasn't finished due to Sonic's inclusion, same with Dr. Mario.As you said earlier, Roy and Ganondorf were clones too despite being major characters so it was hardly as damning of a factor as you make it out to be. The fact that Falco was one of the two clones that was spared from being outright cut from Brawl adds to this too.
Wolf is almost entirely different from Fox, so I barely even count him as a semi-clone, and the rest were still highly similar to the original. Toon Link still had most of the same animations as Link, just didn't properties.Brawl had no true clones, only semiclones: Lucas, Ganondorf, Luigi, Falco, Wolf, and Toon Link. It doesn't matter that Falco was more cloneish in Melee because 1. they bothered to keep him in Brawl unlike Pichu, Doc, Roy, and Young Link and 2. they adjusted him to be even less like Fox, just like Ganondorf was made to be less like Captain Falcon and Toon Link less than Young Link and thus in turn like Link.
I didn't say he was a major one. I said he was one period. And if a series can have a villain? It should well before a secondary hero(especially a fairly unimportant one, who didn't even get a notable role till after Melee, his first appearance as a clone, where he was simply Fox remade). Wolf > Falco in overall notability. Falco is hardly memorable beyond being in Melee, which is where his real popularity came from. Wolf was popular even before that, which is a major reason he got into Brawl in the first place.Also, on the topic of Wolf's overall antagonist roles:
"Just what I needed to see. Star Wolf..."- Fox, Star Fox 64.
Even in game Fox sees Team Star Wolf as more of an annoyance than a serious threat so it's still a bit of stretch to call Wolf a major villain.
Wolf having two of the same moves(no different from most characters anyway) is a pretty bad reason to say he's not an original addition. He's no clone, or comes very close to one at all. Lucas is also not a good example as he's far more similar to Ness than Wolf is to Fox. Lucas is pretty much closer to what Ganondorf is to Falcon, a near clone in Brawl, but still fairly distinct.Neither Falco or Wolf are completely original but Falco has history both in Smash and Star Fox and has rolled off the chopping block once already. With Lucas and Wolf being the only not completely original new additions in Brawl, using your argument, they would be more likely to be cut but, even compared to Lucas, Wolf still has significantly less going for him. Lucas was in the starting roster while Wolf was unlockable. Lucas stars in his own game, Wolf doesn't. Being a reincarnation of Ness, his similarities with Ness make more sense than Wolf's similarities with Fox. Lucas was a big character in the SSE and arguably the only character that had any real character development while Wolf was an after the credits secret. The list goes on so, aside from Snake whose inclusion relies entirely on Konami's cooperation, I'd argue that Wolf is the weakest candidate to make a comeback if the 4 character cut rumor ends up being true.
Apparently, he "stole the design" and reworked it to be his own.Literally, the only move deviated from Fox Wolf has that doesn't make sense is the Landmaster since it's a Star Fox only vehicle.
Nintendo just won E3 for Michael Vick.![]()
Sorry for small image, but possible leak, the list of games:
*NintendogsUnleashed "A console Nintendogs?" (Nintendogs in combat?)
Ridley, Anna, Ghirahim, "Marth", Paper Mario, Mach Rider.Hey, you guys dig my new sig? I am certainly a fan of it.
It was simple to make, yet it works really well.
Also from left to right, can you guess the characters in my sig?
Ridley, Anna, Ghirahim, "Marth", Paper Mario, Mach Rider.
You have impeccable taste, imo.
Well there was no Black Shadow or Hades... or Ganon. So his taste is substandard, imo.Ridley, Anna, Ghirahim, "Marth", Paper Mario, Mach Rider.
You have impeccable taste, imo.
We already have Ganon.Well there was no Black Shadow or Hades... or Ganon. So his taste is substandard, imo.
HOLY **** IS THIS RIGHT.
This is the trophy description for Wolf's Landmaster:"Being a reincarnation of Ness"
Source or it's bull****.
And really, Lucas' similarities make less sense.
Neither character are using their own PSI abilities aside from Ness' PK Flash, which Lucas can also use but doesn't for the sake of variety.
Lucas has access to abilities Ness doesn't:
PSI Shield
PSI Counter
Offense Up
Defense Up
Refresh
PK Love
And yet, Sakurai made him Ness 2.0 by having him borrow all of his PSI abilities from Kumatora. With PK Freeze being the only different one from Ness, yet functioning near the exact same.
Going by the "their friends taught them their techniques for Smash" logic Sakurai goes by, there's even PK Ground, exclusive to Mother 3.
But no, Sakurai literally added Lucas to be an "upgraded Ness". (His words)
Yeah, Wolf is similar to Fox. But that's not by choice.
Fox's Specials were designed after the actions of piloting an Arwing.
Wolf, being a pilot as well, was given Specials to match Fox while still having significant changes.
Literally, the only move deviated from Fox Wolf has that doesn't make sense is the Landmaster since it's a Star Fox only vehicle.
It makes me want to regurgitate. It is repugnant... disgusting. This makes me sick with anger!We already have Ganon.
![]()
![]()
Really? It fills my heart with rainbows.It makes me want to regurgitate. It is repugnant... disgusting. This makes me sick with anger!
Well, it's very sensual, which is probably the most important factor to consider when making your own signature banner.Hey, you guys dig my new sig? I am certainly a fan of it.
It was simple to make, yet it works really well.
Also from left to right, can you guess the characters in my sig?
Sooooo, you don't like it?It makes me want to regurgitate. It is repugnant... disgusting. This makes me sick with anger!
Why wouldn't the move tutor be in the next Pokemon game?Sooooo, you don't like it?
Anyways, who else is hoping for a Move Tutor in the next Pokemon games? I'm itching to have a Blaziken with Thunder Punch.
Well there isn't one in Pokemon Y. And I don't know if they were in the other remakes, so I'm just unsure.Why wouldn't the move tutor be in the next Pokemon game?
Isn't that even more of a reason to have the move tutor return though? Don't mind me, I just don't think he is going to be removed. Haha.Well there isn't one in Pokemon Y. And I don't know if they were in the other remakes, so I'm just unsure.
Heartgold+SoulSilver had move tutors and the second game in a generation generally gets move tutors these days so I wouldn't worry too much about that.Well there isn't one in Pokemon Y. And I don't know if they were in the other remakes, so I'm just unsure.
That so? Well that's good. I wonder what some of the Gen 6 Pokemon will be able to learn now. Either way, if I get Alpha or Omega, I'm making sure my Blaziken on Pokemon Y gets Thunder Punch. Not sure what I'd teach Blastoise though.Heartgold+SoulSilver had move tutors and the second game in a generation generally gets move tutors these days so I wouldn't worry too much about that.
Thunder Punch would be a really cool move for Blaziken, I suppose I might give it a shot on my Blaziken from Omega Ruby.That so? Well that's good. I wonder what some of the Gen 6 Pokemon will be able to learn now. Either way, if I get Alpha or Omega, I'm making sure my Blaziken on Pokemon Y gets Thunder Punch. Not sure what I'd teach Blastoise though.
That's not Ganon that's Man-Bear-PigWe already have Ganon.
![]()
![]()
Thank you very much, at least someone understands!That's not Ganon that's Man-Bear-Pig
Most of the older games had Thunder Punch as a tutor move, it should be back this time around. It's a ****ing awesome coverage attack for guys like Blaziken, Infernape and others. Though it'd be even better if a Thunder version of Blaze Kick was in the game. Did you ever try Ice Punch on Nidoking? It worked pretty well for me on Pokemon Silver.Thunder Punch would be a really cool move for Blaziken, I suppose I might give it a shot on my Blaziken from Omega Ruby.
No, I don't really put Nidoking on my team, I should probably try it though. It sounds interesting.Most of the older games had Thunder Punch as a tutor move, it should be back this time around. It's a ****ing awesome coverage attack for guys like Blaziken, Infernape and others. Though it'd be even better if a Thunder version of Blaze Kick was in the game. Did you ever try Ice Punch on Nidoking? It worked pretty well for me on Pokemon Silver.
Why so disturbed? It's just an adorable little piggie.It makes me want to regurgitate. It is repugnant... disgusting. This makes me sick with anger!
Many shows could be made much more interesting if Dio Brando was the main villain. Just think of the possibilities.![]()
In an alternate reality Shinji Ikari was killed off after two episodes. Neon Genesis became an infinitely better show after that.
Oh, and the Angels won.
Dio Brando killing off terrible protagonists and making shows better.Many shows could be made much more interesting if Dio Brando was the main villain. Just think of the possibilities.
@soviet prince we demand to know.So Nintendo posted a huge apology on Facebook about not including the option for gay marriage.
All the comments were nice and heartfelt but there was this one guy who said:
"If you're going to apologise for this you better apologise for not making Ridley a playable character in the new Super Smash Bros.'
10/10
Dio for Smash? God I wish ;_;![]()
In an alternate reality Shinji Ikari was killed off after two episodes. Neon Genesis became an infinitely better show after that.
Oh, and the Angels won.