Social Smash 4 Social Topic 2.0

[MSmariosonic]

Last one...

 

[Kenith]

Hey, you guys dig my new sig? I am certainly a fan of it.

It was simple to make, yet it works really well.

Also from left to right, can you guess the characters in my sig?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's a huge exaggeration because Wolf wasn't even the main villain in Star Fox 64, Andross was, and, again, the fight with him is technically optional. Again, Bowser has been a major character in almost every major Mario game since the beginning which means that he has well over 100 appearances in the franchise while Wolf's appearance sit at three games and 60% of the overall franchise. It's not even comparable. Saying Wolf is on the same level as Bowser is like saying Kamek or Birdo are too.

Bowser is also not the main villain of many Mario games too. Mario Party especially. Where he's just there in some cases. The real villain is the guy who "created" the mini-games and boards. He's not the main villain of some of the RPG's as well, just showing up or even being a hero. This is why I consider them no different in the end. Being a villain slightly more often doesn't much make him really "different". You seem to be misunderstanding the comparison. The only difference between the two is Bowser is the main villain more often. They're otherwise extremely similar overall. Shows up in the most games, generally a villain, rarely does good stuff, both notable in and unique additions to Smash.

Falco isn't near Luigi's status but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. Both Falco and Wolf are semiclones of Fox but Falco's similarities with Fox make a whole lot more sense than Wolf's. In Smash, as I pointed out, Wolf is essentially inverted Fox kind of like how Captain Falcon and Ganondorf were made to be opposites of each other. The situation, however, is not the same because 1. Ganondorf is basically Nintendo's second most important villain and significantly more important than the person he rips off in Smash and 2. they're from two completely different franchises. If Ganondorf had wound up as Black Shadow, we'd have the same issue as Fox and Wolf: two characters from the same franchise made to basically be opposites of each other but that is not the case. It's not as ostentatious as Link to Dark Link or Sonic to Shadow but it's still far from subtle.

No. Wolf is still far too different to even be close to being like Ganondorf. He's way closer to comparing Jigglypuff and Kirby at best(in Melee/Brawl, that is). Kind of similar, but highly different in the end. Wolf barely is a clone. Two moves in common are all he has. Down B and Final Smash. Everything else is different.

Again, it's not totally original. He's basically Fox's opposite in almost every regard, right down to how he moves.

And also why calling him even a semi-clone is a large exaggeration. Two moves in common don't make him a clone at this point.

Animation takes a long, long time to make. Even things that are a few minutes long can take months to make, even when done by professionals. Considering Falco was in 10 cutscenes compared to Wolf's 1, that means a lot more planning went into Falco's inclusion in Brawl than Wolf. It also doesn't help Wolf's case that it's estimated that the SSE took up roughly 3/5ths of the overall development time with him winding up as an after story side quest.

That only explains why he got added late, but it has nothing to do with why he was added in the first place. He was always going to be in the game. And for what was likely last minute programming, Sakurai actually bothered to make him a very unique character, putting far more care into his actual gameplay than Falco's. Cutscenes don't mean much, especially when they're going to be gone in 4, the only thing Falco had going for him in Brawl of note at all.

Mewtwo was a whole lot more relevant, important, and popular than Jigglypuff at the time, especially with Gen One being remade only a few years before Brawl was announced. Even with Jigglypuff being part of the original 12, there's a lot that shows that, like Wolf, she sat on the razor's edge too and was added fairly late.

She was added fairly late because of the SSE, not because she was an afterthought. Same as everybody except Sonic(not even planned at first) and the Forbidden 7(who didn't get in). No, he was not even close to highly relevant over Jigglypuff. They were much closer to being in the same boat entirely. Everything that made Mewtwo relevant(the movies) were done with. He was just another Gen 1 guy. No more, no less. He was not important in FR/LG whatsoever. He just existed. Jigglypuff had the original 12 status, which immediately made her the more important choice. People overrate Mewtwo's importance, which is not that high to anything beyond the Anime and its Movies at best. Popularity-wise, Jigglypuff was already a full contender against Mewtwo, and part of why she got in 64 over him, the other was programming.

As you said earlier, Roy and Ganondorf were clones too despite being major characters so it was hardly as damning of a factor as you make it out to be. The fact that Falco was one of the two clones that was spared from being outright cut from Brawl adds to this too.

You didn't read the part where only Pichu was going to be cut entirely. Because it was Pikachu but more, and didn't star as a protagonist in his own game or a key antagonist. Roy wasn't finished due to Sonic's inclusion, same with Dr. Mario.

Brawl had no true clones, only semiclones: Lucas, Ganondorf, Luigi, Falco, Wolf, and Toon Link. It doesn't matter that Falco was more cloneish in Melee because 1. they bothered to keep him in Brawl unlike Pichu, Doc, Roy, and Young Link and 2. they adjusted him to be even less like Fox, just like Ganondorf was made to be less like Captain Falcon and Toon Link less than Young Link and thus in turn like Link.

Wolf is almost entirely different from Fox, so I barely even count him as a semi-clone, and the rest were still highly similar to the original. Toon Link still had most of the same animations as Link, just didn't properties.

Also, on the topic of Wolf's overall antagonist roles:

"Just what I needed to see. Star Wolf..."- Fox, Star Fox 64.

Even in game Fox sees Team Star Wolf as more of an annoyance than a serious threat so it's still a bit of stretch to call Wolf a major villain.

I didn't say he was a major one. I said he was one period. And if a series can have a villain? It should well before a secondary hero(especially a fairly unimportant one, who didn't even get a notable role till after Melee, his first appearance as a clone, where he was simply Fox remade). Wolf > Falco in overall notability. Falco is hardly memorable beyond being in Melee, which is where his real popularity came from. Wolf was popular even before that, which is a major reason he got into Brawl in the first place.

Neither Falco or Wolf are completely original but Falco has history both in Smash and Star Fox and has rolled off the chopping block once already. With Lucas and Wolf being the only not completely original new additions in Brawl, using your argument, they would be more likely to be cut but, even compared to Lucas, Wolf still has significantly less going for him. Lucas was in the starting roster while Wolf was unlockable. Lucas stars in his own game, Wolf doesn't. Being a reincarnation of Ness, his similarities with Ness make more sense than Wolf's similarities with Fox. Lucas was a big character in the SSE and arguably the only character that had any real character development while Wolf was an after the credits secret. The list goes on so, aside from Snake whose inclusion relies entirely on Konami's cooperation, I'd argue that Wolf is the weakest candidate to make a comeback if the 4 character cut rumor ends up being true.

Wolf having two of the same moves(no different from most characters anyway) is a pretty bad reason to say he's not an original addition. He's no clone, or comes very close to one at all. Lucas is also not a good example as he's far more similar to Ness than Wolf is to Fox. Lucas is pretty much closer to what Ganondorf is to Falcon, a near clone in Brawl, but still fairly distinct.

Wolf is the least clone-like of any of the characters with the same B moves, something he started off as. Not even Luigi got that far, actually still being fairly similar to Mario overall. They have their differences, but still have similar moves, and some near identical ones.

I'd like to note that Meta Knight and King Dedede have the same jumping ability as Kirby, and King DDD has a near identical Neutral B to Kirby. To note, the latter is actually just as much of a semi-clone to Kirby as Wolf is to Fox. Anything else is an exaggeration of how much of a clone he is.

And I do not believe Wolf will be considered to be cut before Falco, not being an original character. You are still forgetting clones were thrown quite quickly onto the chopping block. Falco came from a barely represented series, where Pichu, Mewtwo, and Dr. Mario(and technically Young Link, but was upgraded) were all highly repped before them. They had at least 2. Roy was from a series that almost didn't get repped outside of Japan, so he had less importance in comparison. You keep saying Mewtwo is "important", but if he was anywhere near that, he would've definitely been in Brawl. He's not clearly that important, and Jigglypuff was definitely more. It's why she's in, and he's not. Pichu wasn't at all, obviously. Just a fun clone. StarFox itself was a very big series and very popular, so there was no reason to cut anyone from it. Ganondorf is the main villain, enough said. Young Link was the main protagonist along with Link. That's why he got the upgrade to the newest version of the Child Link, one of the main protagonists. The only reason Falco has anything is because he had some cool cutscenes in Brawl. Beyond that, he has no real importance to Smash, and very little to the SF series in the long run. Two games is not "much". Not out of six. Wolf plays a notable bad guy or anti-hero role in everything but the first game. He was always in the overall story to a degree.

 

[Deleted member]

"Being a reincarnation of Ness"

Source or it's bull****.

And really, Lucas' similarities make less sense.
Neither character are using their own PSI abilities aside from Ness' PK Flash, which Lucas can also use but doesn't for the sake of variety.
Lucas has access to abilities Ness doesn't:
PSI Shield
PSI Counter
Offense Up
Defense Up
Refresh
PK Love

And yet, Sakurai made him Ness 2.0 by having him borrow all of his PSI abilities from Kumatora. With PK Freeze being the only different one from Ness, yet functioning near the exact same.
Going by the "their friends taught them their techniques for Smash" logic Sakurai goes by, there's even PK Ground, exclusive to Mother 3.
But no, Sakurai literally added Lucas to be an "upgraded Ness". (His words)

Yeah, Wolf is similar to Fox. But that's not by choice.
Fox's Specials were designed after the actions of piloting an Arwing.
Wolf, being a pilot as well, was given Specials to match Fox while still having significant changes.
Literally, the only move deviated from Fox Wolf has that doesn't make sense is the Landmaster since it's a Star Fox only vehicle.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Literally, the only move deviated from Fox Wolf has that doesn't make sense is the Landmaster since it's a Star Fox only vehicle.

Apparently, he "stole the design" and reworked it to be his own.

I think that was the actual SSB reason. But yeah, the rest make sense. I still think he could use a variant of the Reflector to be different. Albeit, his actual gameplay in regular StarFox games is barely different from Fox's, but still overall more different from Falco. Assault is cool like that.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Sorry for small image, but possible leak, the list of games:
*NintendogsUnleashed "A console Nintendogs?" (Nintendogs in combat? )

Nintendo just won E3 for Michael Vick.

If this is really Nintendo's Wii U E3 unveiling I'll be underwhelmed.
But i'll assume this screencap (if legit) is missing some titles as Bayonetta 2 and X are both slated to be released this year.

 

[Kenith]

Hey guys, I made this chart last night for you all.

Enjoy.

 

[The Original Robot boy]

started watching a classic again known as wallace and gromit grand day out

 

[Second Power]

Hey, you guys dig my new sig? I am certainly a fan of it.

It was simple to make, yet it works really well.

Also from left to right, can you guess the characters in my sig?

Ridley, Anna, Ghirahim, "Marth", Paper Mario, Mach Rider.

You have impeccable taste, imo.

 

[Kenith]

Ridley, Anna, Ghirahim, "Marth", Paper Mario, Mach Rider.

You have impeccable taste, imo.

....Um, it's "Meta" Ridley.

You think you're sooooo smart

Wow, you guessed that really fast.

 

[Morbi]

Ridley, Anna, Ghirahim, "Marth", Paper Mario, Mach Rider.

You have impeccable taste, imo.

Well there was no Black Shadow or Hades... or Ganon. So his taste is substandard, imo.

 

[Kenith]

Well there was no Black Shadow or Hades... or Ganon. So his taste is substandard, imo.

We already have Ganon.

 

[Deleted member]

I'll just leave this here...

HOLY **** IS THIS RIGHT.

So...Gilbert Gottfridley could possibly be a real thing?

 

[Arcadenik]

"Being a reincarnation of Ness"

Source or it's bull****.

And really, Lucas' similarities make less sense.
Neither character are using their own PSI abilities aside from Ness' PK Flash, which Lucas can also use but doesn't for the sake of variety.
Lucas has access to abilities Ness doesn't:
PSI Shield
PSI Counter
Offense Up
Defense Up
Refresh
PK Love

And yet, Sakurai made him Ness 2.0 by having him borrow all of his PSI abilities from Kumatora. With PK Freeze being the only different one from Ness, yet functioning near the exact same.
Going by the "their friends taught them their techniques for Smash" logic Sakurai goes by, there's even PK Ground, exclusive to Mother 3.
But no, Sakurai literally added Lucas to be an "upgraded Ness". (His words)

Yeah, Wolf is similar to Fox. But that's not by choice.
Fox's Specials were designed after the actions of piloting an Arwing.
Wolf, being a pilot as well, was given Specials to match Fox while still having significant changes.
Literally, the only move deviated from Fox Wolf has that doesn't make sense is the Landmaster since it's a Star Fox only vehicle.

This is the trophy description for Wolf's Landmaster:

"Wolf analyzed Fox's Landmaster and built his own improved version, which he now calls out and boards. He's increased the output of the onboard generators and upped the vehicles firepower. However, this has substantially decreased the time the Landmaster can appear on the screen. It sports the same colors as Wolf's Wolfen."

See? This is Sakurai's headcanon.

 

[Morbi]

We already have Ganon.

It makes me want to regurgitate. It is repugnant... disgusting. This makes me sick with anger!

 

[Kenith]

It makes me want to regurgitate. It is repugnant... disgusting. This makes me sick with anger!

Really? It fills my heart with rainbows.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Hey, you guys dig my new sig? I am certainly a fan of it.

It was simple to make, yet it works really well.

Also from left to right, can you guess the characters in my sig?

Well, it's very sensual, which is probably the most important factor to consider when making your own signature banner.

 

[Knight Dude]

It makes me want to regurgitate. It is repugnant... disgusting. This makes me sick with anger!

Sooooo, you don't like it?

Anyways, who else is hoping for a Move Tutor in the next Pokemon games? I'm itching to have a Blaziken with Thunder Punch.

 

[Kenith]

So, speaking of Fire Emblem, I screwed up my own plan.

Make Chrom marry Olivia, then marry their overpowered Lucina.

Said screw it, married Anna instead.

I regret nothing.

 

[Morbi]

Sooooo, you don't like it?

Anyways, who else is hoping for a Move Tutor in the next Pokemon games? I'm itching to have a Blaziken with Thunder Punch.

Why wouldn't the move tutor be in the next Pokemon game?

 

[Knight Dude]

Why wouldn't the move tutor be in the next Pokemon game?

Well there isn't one in Pokemon Y. And I don't know if they were in the other remakes, so I'm just unsure.

 

[Morbi]

Well there isn't one in Pokemon Y. And I don't know if they were in the other remakes, so I'm just unsure.

Isn't that even more of a reason to have the move tutor return though? Don't mind me, I just don't think he is going to be removed. Haha.

 

[MargnetMan23]

Well there isn't one in Pokemon Y. And I don't know if they were in the other remakes, so I'm just unsure.

Heartgold+SoulSilver had move tutors and the second game in a generation generally gets move tutors these days so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

 

[Knight Dude]

Heartgold+SoulSilver had move tutors and the second game in a generation generally gets move tutors these days so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

That so? Well that's good. I wonder what some of the Gen 6 Pokemon will be able to learn now. Either way, if I get Alpha or Omega, I'm making sure my Blaziken on Pokemon Y gets Thunder Punch. Not sure what I'd teach Blastoise though.

 

[Morbi]

That so? Well that's good. I wonder what some of the Gen 6 Pokemon will be able to learn now. Either way, if I get Alpha or Omega, I'm making sure my Blaziken on Pokemon Y gets Thunder Punch. Not sure what I'd teach Blastoise though.

Thunder Punch would be a really cool move for Blaziken, I suppose I might give it a shot on my Blaziken from Omega Ruby.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

We already have Ganon.

That's not Ganon that's Man-Bear-Pig

 

[Morbi]

That's not Ganon that's Man-Bear-Pig

Thank you very much, at least someone understands!

 

[Substitution]

So, what happened?

 

[mimgrim]

So I was out tonight.

Went and got sea food, ordered shrimp ofc;

Also stopped by Gamestop and got Shin Megami Tensei 4 so as to get a feel for the SMT series and see how it is, while hoping SMT X FE doesn't fall into oblivion.

 

[Knight Dude]

Thunder Punch would be a really cool move for Blaziken, I suppose I might give it a shot on my Blaziken from Omega Ruby.

Most of the older games had Thunder Punch as a tutor move, it should be back this time around. It's a ****ing awesome coverage attack for guys like Blaziken, Infernape and others. Though it'd be even better if a Thunder version of Blaze Kick was in the game. Did you ever try Ice Punch on Nidoking? It worked pretty well for me on Pokemon Silver.

 

[Morbi]

Most of the older games had Thunder Punch as a tutor move, it should be back this time around. It's a ****ing awesome coverage attack for guys like Blaziken, Infernape and others. Though it'd be even better if a Thunder version of Blaze Kick was in the game. Did you ever try Ice Punch on Nidoking? It worked pretty well for me on Pokemon Silver.

No, I don't really put Nidoking on my team, I should probably try it though. It sounds interesting.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

It makes me want to regurgitate. It is repugnant... disgusting. This makes me sick with anger!

Why so disturbed? It's just an adorable little piggie.

 

[Z25]

That e3 game leak sounds interesting but there must be more then that. And a nintendogs fighting game would be a day one buy!

 

[8-peacock-8]

In an alternate reality Shinji Ikari was killed off after two episodes. Neon Genesis became an infinitely better show after that.

Oh, and the Angels won.

 

[Knight Dude]

In an alternate reality Shinji Ikari was killed off after two episodes. Neon Genesis became an infinitely better show after that.

Oh, and the Angels won.

Many shows could be made much more interesting if Dio Brando was the main villain. Just think of the possibilities.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Many shows could be made much more interesting if Dio Brando was the main villain. Just think of the possibilities.

Dio Brando killing off terrible protagonists and making shows better.

 

[Radical Bones]

So Nintendo posted a huge apology on Facebook about not including the option for gay marriage in Tomodachi Life.

All the comments were nice and heartfelt but there was this one guy who said:

"If you're going to apologise for this you better apologise for not making Ridley a playable character in the new Super Smash Bros.'

10/10

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

So Nintendo posted a huge apology on Facebook about not including the option for gay marriage.

All the comments were nice and heartfelt but there was this one guy who said:

"If you're going to apologise for this you better apologise for not making Ridley a playable character in the new Super Smash Bros.'

10/10

@soviet prince we demand to know.

 

[PKNinja95]

In an alternate reality Shinji Ikari was killed off after two episodes. Neon Genesis became an infinitely better show after that.

Oh, and the Angels won.

Dio for Smash? God I wish ;_;
Dio is such a badass

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

For once I actually agree with Michael Pachter on something...

http://wiiudaily.com/2014/05/pachter-on-mk8-and-ssb/