Smash Wii U [Sm4sh Mods] (Unofficial) Patch 1.1.7: The Fan Patch [Discontinued. See Updated Thread for details]

[MrGameguycolor]

This is a pleasant surprise.
I must say that I'm quiet impressed with the changes you've made towards characters known for their signifent weakness from what I've read.
The highlights for me being Roy, King Dedede, Mii Gunner, and Shulk.


If this isn't asking too much, would it be possible if someone could post a video example of these changes in action?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

DPKdebator : Dr. Mario has some sort of property that multiplies his walk speed, run speed, air speed, and air acceleration attributes by 0.82. As a result, it's not possible to make his run speed attribute be "exactly" 1.5.

In other words, you'd have to refer to the information below, and even then, with the decimal being quite large, it will automatically be made smaller.

1.5 / 0.82 = 1.8292682926829268292682926829268

 

[KingJigglypuff]

If this isn't asking too much, would it be possible if someone could post a video example of these changes in action?

So far, I have a video showcasing Shulk, Roy, and Charizard right now.

 

[Green L]

My suggestions will be about luigi.
BUFFS
Lower down throw knockback growth to 35
Lower the hit lag back to 1 on luigi cyclone
Increase the knockback growth on luigi cyclone. (Somewhere between 120 and 130 like 128)
Reduce mashing on luigi cyclone
NERFS
Add more startup and endlag to down smash as well as lower damage by 2 percent.
Lower knockback on forward smash
Lower traction. (Including shield push)
Add more hitlag to dash attack.
Add more lag to down tilt.
Remove trip on down tilt
Add more lag to forward tilt.
Why?
Luigi's grab game has always been important, even after his nerfs. Since the nerfs, Luigi became a second rate mario to me. Mario can do almost anything luigi can but better. Mario has the better combos, smashes, ground speed, airspeed, and better traction. Competitively, there's no reason to play luigi when mario exists. The buffs I suggested will separate him from mario from a gameplay perspective. The nerfs will offset his strong grab game than Vanilla Sm4sh.
By the way, please don't buff luigi's airspeed. In my opinion, his trash airspeed is supposed to be one of luigi's weaknesses. Any more airspeed, Luigi would be as ridiculous as pre 1.1.6 Bayo

 

[MrGameguycolor]

So far, I have a video showcasing Shulk, Roy, and Charizard right now.

Well I have to say it's strange to Shulk move at Ike's speed, and to see that the air version of Roy's Blazer can now kill.
I'm heavily impressed, good job man.




I personally would like to help suggest some for different balance characters, however I don't want just but in and start asking for buffs/nerfs without much reason to.

So I wish the best of luck to you and this mod.

Edit: Never mind, I'll post what I would like to see.

 

[KingJigglypuff]

Dr. Mario edits have been added to the OP with thanks from Yoshister , but the release build will not be updated just yet.

 

[Yoshister]

Dr. Mario edits have been added to the OP with thanks from Yoshister , but the release build will not be updated just yet.

Keep in mind that the values listed are the ones in his GAME.bin, NOT IN-GAME.

In-game, Doc's damage and speed values are multiplied by 1.2 and 0.82 respectively.

 

[KingJigglypuff]

Keep in mind that the values listed are the ones in his GAME.bin, NOT IN-GAME.

In-game, Doc's damage and speed values are multiplied by 1.2 and 0.82 respectively.

Thanks for explaining. I was so confused when you first mentioned the multipliers for everything.

 

[Revolution6 aka alterego]

This looks interesting

 

[KingJigglypuff]

i-snip

It's against the rules to ask about this in public.

 

[Revolution6 aka alterego]

It's against the rules to ask about this in public.[/
Sorry

 

[MrGameguycolor]

I personally would like to help suggest some for different balance characters, however I don't want just but in and start asking for buffs/nerfs without much reason to.

You know, why the hell not...

Sure I'll post some changes for Doc I'd like to see:

Spoiler: Change List

-The following changes below boost Doc's damage output and surprisingly lacking kill power to help identify him as the stronger Mario to make up for his lack of mobility:

• Jab 1: Base Dmg 2.8 < 3.5

• Jab 2: Base Dmg 1.68 < 2.5

• Utilt: Knockback Growth 130 < 145

• Dsmash (1st/Front Hit): Base Dmg 11.2 < 13.4

• Dsmash (2nd/Back Hit): Base Dmg 13.44 < 16.2

• Dair: Hits 1-4 Base Dmg 1.904 < 2.25

• Dair: 5th/Final Hit Base Dmg 3.36 < 3.8

-These following changes improve Doc's grab game and combo ability for his defense bait and punish playstyle, as well as giving the player options to be creative with their combos and tricking their opponent into using the wrong DI:

• Utilt: Base Knockback: 28 < 25

• Fthrow: Base Knockback 60 < 45

• Fthrow: Knockback Growth 60 < 65

• Uthrow: Base Dmg 7.84 < 5.84

• Uthrow: Base Knockback 65 < 50

• Dthrow: Base Dmg 5.6 < 5

• Dthrow: Base Knockback 75 < 60

• Dthrow: Knockback Growth 45 < 50

-And finally independent changes that don't really fit into a specific category

• Fsmash: Replaces sour spot hit-boxes with new sweet spot hit-boxes

• Fair: Replaces sour spot hit-boxes with new sweet spot hit-boxes (These two moves suffer from high start up, long end lag and little range, making them hard to hit and very punishable. The sour spots give less reward off these diffcult to land attacks, which can be very disappointing and could potentially cost you the match.)

• Super Jump Punch: Add Heavy Base Armor on frames 3-8 (This is to fix the multiple repeated Up-B bug on Ness's PK Fire and varices other rapid-hit jabs. Example)

 

[CaP_Omega]

I'm going to be making a laundry list of changes I would like to see in a patch. While I might just post the whole thing on a different thread, I can name a small amount of them off the top of my head.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Increased run speed
- Increased air speed
- Decreased landing lag on F-air
- Totally repurposed U-tilt! Decreased startup to around 20 frames, decreased end lag, stronger and more horizontally spread windboxes added, decreased damage to about 15%, decreased BKB by a ton, and reduced KBG


- Increased run speed
- Decreased landing lag on B-air
- Decreased end lag on F-tilt and D-tilt
- Decreased end lag on F-smash and D-smash
- Add more vertical hitboxes to U-smash
- Act out of Up-B


- replace aerial jump with two shorter aerial jumps
- Increased run speed
- Increase BKB on all F-tilt hitboxes
- Decreased landing lag on F-air
- Bigger hitboxes on Z-air


- give her that groovy Melee aerial movement
- make so when shield breaks, everyone else falls through the stage

 

[Fish-Stix]

Here are just some ideas for Dedede:

-Slightly increased grab range
-Back throw kills earlier (Let's say it kills Mario in training mode at the ledge of FD at around 160-170%)
-Opponents get sucked in and enter helplessness sooner when standing in front of Dedede, while he's using Inhale, this is justified by the endlag of the move.
-Up-smash sourspot gets removed and the move becomes strong throughout entirely.
-Fix the Down-tilt hitbox

Spoiler: 16 patches in and this is still a thing

-Fair has a bit more knockback and a longer lasting hitbox
-Jab hits come out faster. I've had situations, where opponents were hit by Jab 2, could land on the ground and would roll behind me, before Jab 3 comes out and then punished me.

That's all I've got.
I don't want him to get a kill confirm, to be honest. He shouldn't be one of those "I grab at 80-90% and kill you with an Up air" characters.
Gordows being reflected with at least 2% is actually fine too, since I don't want him to rely on spam.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I did test out my attribute changes further, and here's something that I looked at in regards to Charizard.

If Charizard's air speed is set to 1.09, it becomes less likely to self-destruct itself if it ends up going off-stage while using Flare Blitz. However, be careful not to Flare Blitz off the stage while near the stage ledge, or else self-destruction will pretty much be certain, even with the air speed increase.

If you replace Flare Blitz with Dragon Rush, however, then the self-destruct risk would decrease even further, since Dragon Rush does not travel as far as Flare Blitz.

Now, I'm not sure if Charizard can avoid self-destructs with whiffed Flare Blitzes if its air speed is lower than 1.09, but its current 0.92 air speed value probably needs an additional buff, just to help avoid those kinds of incidents.

 

[wedl!!]

Lastly, the weight nerf on Bayonetta is just to add more risk to her combat style; it was something that I wanted to give to her anyway. It's basically the final nail in the coffin to go with the nerfs that update 1.1.6 gave to her.

Oh so basically further kill the character.

Good.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Oh so basically further kill the character.

Good.

I don't know anything about moveset hacking, but if one were to bring back Bayonetta's pre-1.1.6 update elements (which can probably be done by downloading the 1.1.5 update contents), then the weight nerf would become more understandable.

 

[Bowserboy3]

The Diddy Kong changes make me feel physically sick. Why is arguably the best character in the game getting a buff akin to what made him broken before hand?

I'd also like to mention that out of all of Cloud's kit, his Up Air by far warrants a nerf the most. At the very least, it should come out on frame 8 (for example, remove one of it's frames, from 7-9 to 8-9), as this would decrease the chances of it hitting a grounded opponent (similar to how Diddy's Uair was nerfed). It's AC frames being increased would also balance the move out more (from something like 26> to 29>).

Doc's Back Throw looks absurdly powerful now though. Pretty sure that aught to be looked at.

Though the rest of the changes look pretty solid overall, nice stuff.

(PS: Still waiting on dem Marth buffs )

 

[KingJigglypuff]

For anyone posting change suggestions, don't worry, I'm not ignoring you. I just don't want to repeat the same statement over and over to the majority of change suggestions. So just know that while I may not reply to your suggestions, you should know that I have seen them. When the character to be edited is relevant, I will bring up your change suggestions.

The Diddy Kong changes make me feel physically sick. Why is arguably the best character in the game getting a buff akin to what made him broken before hand?

To be honest, bringing back the Hoo Hah was just for the sake of memes, but I made it kill at around the 140 - 150 range, rather than the 80 - 90 range like it once did. If the council finds too much of an issue with it, then the changes will be reverted.

(PS: Still waiting on dem Marth buffs )

We're doing one character at a time, so we'll get to Marth eventually.

 

[Frihetsanka]

My suggestions will be about luigi.

...
NERFS
Add more startup and endlag to down smash as well as lower damage by 2 percent.
Lower knockback on forward smash
Lower traction. (Including shield push)
Add more hitlag to dash attack.
Add more lag to down tilt.
Remove trip on down tilt
Add more lag to forward tilt.

I'm strongly opposed to nerfs at all, and these nerfs seem extra annoying. Let's say, for the sake of the argument, that you're trying to convince one of your Smash friends who is a Luigi main that playing with this changes in casuals could be fun. Changes like these might make your friend dislike the mod, especially if your friend's playstyle revolves around the nerfed moves, such as dash spamming and frequent down-smashes. Just give Luigi a few small buffs (if needed) and leave it at that.

 

[wedl!!]

Diddy already has enough kill confirms that work for three hundred years. :/

 

[Bowserboy3]

KingJigglypuff - What does that link on the OP contain? I'm thinking of giving these mods a go. Is it stuff ready to go on the SD Card? Or is it stuff that needs to go into Sm4shExplorer?

I can already run mods on my Wii U, just as a disclaimer.

 

[KingJigglypuff]

KingJigglypuff - What does that link on the OP contain? I'm thinking of giving these mods a go.

The mod in the OP contains all the changes listed in the changelist, except for Dr. Mario. In the download, there's two versions. Plug and Play, in which you just need to get mods working, and Manual Injection, in which you can manually inject into your own build.

 

[TeddyBearYoshi]

Bringing back the hoo-hah in any sort could be a mistake, it's not like Diddy struggles in the slightest in Smash 4, lol.

 

[Bowserboy3]

The mod in the OP contains all the changes listed in the changelist, except for Dr. Mario. In the download, there's two versions. Plug and Play, in which you just need to get mods working, and Manual Injection, in which you can manually inject into your own build.

I can already play mods on my Wii U. So I could try the Plug and Play one?

Also, I'll be using a European version of the game. Will that cause any problems?

 

[KingJigglypuff]

Diddy already has enough kill confirms that work for three hundred years. :/

Bringing back the hoo-hah in any sort could be a mistake, it's not like Diddy struggles in the slightest in Smash 4, lol.

This will be brought up for sure if/when we get to actually editing Diddy Kong.

-snip

I'll have to let you know about this via PM, as I'm not sure if discussing install directories is against the rules.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ike seems to already be roughly around where you're aiming to put characters (Outside of some obvious top/high tiers getting buffs? That... shouldn't really be happening at all beyond some kind of minor one to balance out a major nerf, mainly talking about Diddy and Mewtwo here). However, there are at least a few QoL level fixes I think would be reasonable to consider.

1) Aether has this weird spot in the back where you can be inside of Ike while he's spinning with his sword and take zero damage. The amount it hits in front of him is fine, but that blank spot in the back is just kinda weird. Expanding and then adjusting the hitbox so it hits the same area in front of him, but properly surrounds him would be a good thing to fix.

2) Usmash's sour spot. Why does it exist? His smashes are already very iffy in use at best. They fixed Fsmash's sour spot but never touched Usmash's. Just... change the final hit of Usmash to have the same power as the rest of the move.

For an actual buff... there's one in particular I think should be considered and another one that's half way between a buff and a QoL change:

1) Quickdraw. It does too low of damage for the amount of start up and cooldown it has on hit. Its actually punishable on hit at low percents + low charge. Its borderline useless beyond being a recovery move, its not even a good chase option. It should either hit faster and have a lot less cooldown, or it should have more base damage to make it at least safe on hit. Either option works.

Making it like Fox and Falco's Side B where you can always act after using it in the air instead of only if Ike swings the sword is optional.

2) Let Eruption always have super armour upon release instead of only when at least 3/4s charged. Very minor change, doesn't change the use of the move significantly, but its just... something that shouldn't have been changed from Brawl.

 

[Yoshister]

Doc's Back Throw looks absurdly powerful now though. Pretty sure that aught to be looked at.

With these changes it kills at around 120% near the ledge.

 

[Spark31]

I still dont understand how you're going to make manual injection work, given how character attributes work... Out of curiosity, who this counsel you refer to, as in member-wise .

Since I'm on mobile I don't know quite how to quote, but for the one suggestions you can't remove freefall.

 

[KingJigglypuff]

I still dont understand how you're going to make manual injection work, given how character attributes work... Out of curiosity, who this counsel you refer to, as in member-wise.

It's currently a small group of people who know what they're talking about in terms of balance.

For the manual injection, you're right about the parameters, so I might have to put a disclaimer about having people learn how to edit the param file, but I'm not sure if it's against the rules.

 

[DPKdebator]

How exactly are the changes for Dr. Mario going to work in game? Is it the stats listed plus the .82 motion/1.2 damage multiplier, the damages listed rounded, or has the multiplier been removed?

 

[Gigan X3]

So we can't remove special fall triggers yet huh? It's worth noting that Robin's nosferatu shouldn't put him into special fall either.

 

[KingJigglypuff]

How exactly are the changes for Dr. Mario going to work in game? Is it the stats listed plus the .82 motion/1.2 damage multiplier, the damages listed rounded, or has the multiplier been removed?

I'll need to test in-game to be sure.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

How exactly are the changes for Dr. Mario going to work in game? Is it the stats listed plus the .82 motion/1.2 damage multiplier, the damages listed rounded, or has the multiplier been removed?

I was never able to figure out what causes Dr. Mario's speed to be reduced to 0.82x the set value. As a result, I had to improvise by increasing the values that are in the fighter parameter file.

It's all good though, since I've been able to get Dr. Mario's air speed to be around the same level as Little Mac's air speed, and he outruns Dedede as well.

On a side note, the 0.82x multiplier does NOT apply to Dr. Mario's falling speed and fast-falling speed, so he still falls at the same speed as Mario.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Some more meta-thoughts about modding. Tiers.

I use the community tier list as a reference: http://smashboards.com/threads/swf-community-voted-tier-list-phase-2-20th-may.379736/

Tier 1 and tier 2 should not be touched at all, in my opinion. They are already strong enough, no need to buff them even more.

Tier 3 should probably not be touched either. Captain Falcon, Toon Link, and Corrin are all fairly strong as it is. Any buffs should be minor. I probably won't implement them personally anyway.

Tier 4 characters should probably barely be touched. Perhaps a few quality of life changes here and there and some small buffs in general. The strongest ones in tier 4 probably should get smaller buffs than the weakest one (note: This tier used to be called tier 3 before Cpt Falcon, Toon Link, and Corrin went and made a tier of their own).

Tier 5 characters could get some small buffs as well, slightly bigger than the ones for tier 4.

Tier 6-8 characters could get some moderate to large buffs. Don't go too far though.

That's what I think based on what I perceive would be the ideal outcome for this mode (out of the realistic alternatives).

 

[KingJigglypuff]

-snip

I personally used the Sm4sh Back Room Tier List as a reference.

 

[Spark31]

I've been working on Robin, just in case you've wanted to edit him. I now know how to edit tome data after some testing. Here it is, if you need it.

Robin's Tome Data

fighter_param_vl_reflet.bin

(All in Group[16])

Levin Sword:
*Respawn Frames - Entry 2, Name 12
*Uses - Entry 2, Name 10

Thunder:
*Respawn Frames - Entry 3, Name 0
*Uses - ???

Fire:
*Respawn Frames - Entry 3, Name 1
*Uses - Entry 2, Name 16

Wind:
*Respawn Frames - ???
*Uses - Entry 2, Name 17

Nosferatu
*Respawn Frames - Entry 3, Name 3
*Uses - Entry 2, Name 18

 

[Frihetsanka]

I personally used the Sm4sh Back Room Tier List as a reference.

Okay. Keep in mind that it's somewhat old (1.1.3, we have 1.1.6 now) and some of the placements are really strange given 1.1.6 (Roy rated higher than Marth, for instance. Please don't overbuff Marth, the 1.1.4 buffs were quite significant)

Also, note that a lot of people think that Greninja is high tier, or at the very least high-mid tier (the buffs helped). Also notice that Samus is regarded a lot higher now, partly thanks to the buffs. Kirby also got buffed and you probably shouldn't overbuff him. I would consider switching to the community tier, this one is somewhat outdated. Also, some of the choices are really strange (Pikachu higher than Diddy Kong and Cloud? Wii Fit Trainer in low tier?)

 

[KingJigglypuff]

-snip

Thanks, this will be really useful!

-snip

Yeah, I get what you mean. I'll be sure to keep all of this in mind.

 

[L9999]

snip

The community one has it's problems too. It doesn't follow its own rules (1111 and 1111 totally earned those positions) and shows a lot of false hype/misinformation, like getting pissed on like always despite not being bottom tier trash, the unholy disasters that are tier 4 and 5, etc.

On the discrepancies:
is facing Pikachu syndrome. He is debate inducing due to controversy with istudying, those who criticize the character, the results, the theory, and the Greninja playerbase.
is better than she used to, but she could still see some more love.
's buffs are mostly insignificant, and currently the best he can aspire is to be a secondary.

Not attacking you or defending the official tier list, which was outdated by the weekend, but I think both are good resources to see how the meta went and how it compares to current results, and my criticism is not to dump on the community one, but to keep in mind it is a little unreliable. Smash 4 has a lot of character, so inconsistency will last a long time. I was there when people said was "mid tier" because his recovery was "terrible", then that he was broken and best in the game, then that he was overrated, the same with , who is now having an identity crisis. Either she is still good and we will go back to lick her feet, or she will remain in limbo like . As always, just my humble opinion.