Smash Wii U [Sm4sh Mods] (Unofficial) Patch 1.1.7: The Fan Patch [Discontinued. See Updated Thread for details]

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I did spend some time messing around with the fighter attributes. I don't know about moveset editing, but I can modify each fighter's speed, weight, gravity, and traction attributes.

Anyway, the spoiler box below shows the changes that I've been experimenting on, using the 1.1.6 update attributes.

If you don't like the contents that are in the spoiler box, you don't have to implement them. Some of the changes do make certain fighters operate better though.

Note: I do not have Lucas, Ryu, or Bayonetta, so I'm not able to test any changes that I make to them. Also, some Final Smash fighters do have their attributes modified.

Spoiler

• Mii Brawler
  • No changes
• Mii Swordfighter
  • No changes
• Mii Gunner
  • No changes
• Mario
  • No changes
• Donkey Kong
  • Run speed: 1.7031 -> 1.705
  • Weight: 122 -> 124
• Link
  • Run speed: 1.3944 -> 1.4
• Samus
  • Walk speed: 1.0615 -> 1.062
  • Run speed: 1.504 -> 1.51
  • Gravity: 0.077 -> 0.075
  • Falling speed: 1.3 -> 1.25
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.08 -> 2
  • Weight: 108 -> 112
• Yoshi
  • Falling speed: 1.29 -> 1.28
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.064 -> 2.048
  • Weight: 104 -> 102
• Kirby
  • Air speed: 0.8 -> 1.04
  • Weight: 79 -> 77
• Fox
  • Run speed: 2.184 -> 2.2
  • Weight: 79 -> 80
• Pikachu
  • Run speed: 1.85325 -> 1.855
  • Air speed: 0.9118 -> 0.92
  • Weight: 79 -> 78
• Luigi
  • Air speed: 0.7341766 -> 0.92
• Captain Falcon
  • Air speed: 1.1 -> 1.18
  • Falling speed: 1.837 -> 1.85
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.9392 -> 2.96
• Ness
  • Walk speed: 0.8635 -> 0.875
  • Run speed: 1.46265 -> 1.465
  • Air acceleration: 0.09 -> 0.1
  • Air speed: 0.9588 -> 0.96
  • Weight: 94 -> 97
• Peach
  • Run speed: 1.4175 -> 1.45
  • Air speed: 0.95 -> 1.19
  • Weight: 89 -> 85
• Bowser
  • Falling speed: 1.39 -> 1.4
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.224 -> 2.24
  • Weight: 130 -> 132
• Zelda
  • Air speed: 1.04 -> 1.08
  • Falling speed: 1.35 -> 1.22
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.16 -> 1.952
• Sheik
  • Run speed: 2.016 -> 2.02
  • Air speed: 1.1 -> 0.88
  • Weight: 81 -> 85
• Marth
  • No changes
• Mr. Game & Watch
  • Walk speed: 1.1242 -> 1.125
  • Run speed: 1.5264 -> 1.55
  • Air speed: 1.12 -> 1.15
• Ganondorf
  • Run speed: 1.218 -> 1.2
  • Air speed: 0.79 -> 0.8
  • Gravity: 0.107835 -> 0.10784
  • Weight: 113 -> 115
• Falco
  • Run speed: 1.472 -> 1.92
• Wario
  • Weight: 107 -> 108
• Meta Knight
  • Walk speed: 1.18 -> 1.19
  • Air speed: 0.99 -> 0.8
  • Falling speed: 1.66 -> 1.56
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.656 -> 2.496
• Pit
  • Walk speed: 1.199 -> 1.2
  • Run speed: 1.66215 -> 1.663
  • Air speed: 0.89 -> 0.9
• Zero Suit Samus
  • No changes
• Olimar
  • Falling speed: 1.35 -> 1.3
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.16 -> 2.08
  • Weight: 79 -> 78
• Diddy Kong
  • No changes
• King Dedede
  • Air speed: 0.63 -> 0.7
  • Weight: 119 -> 120
• Ike
  • Walk speed: 0.869 -> 0.87
  • Weight: 107 -> 108
• Lucario
  • Air speed: 1.09 -> 1.1
  • Falling speed: 1.68 -> 1.56
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.688 -> 2.496
  • Weight: 99 -> 100
• R.O.B.
  • No changes
• Toon Link
  • Walk speed: 1.2265 -> 1.23
  • Run speed: 1.7325 -> 1.75
  • Air speed: 0.94 -> 1.14
• Charizard
  • Walk speed: 1.2 -> 1.21
  • Traction: 0.04 -> 0.06
  • Air speed: 0.92 -> 1.09
  • Weight: 116 -> 118
• Sonic
  • Walk speed: 1.375 -> 1.4
  • Weight: 94 -> 95
• Jigglypuff
  • Run speed: 1.155 -> 1.1
  • Air speed: 1.269 -> 1.35
  • Gravity: 0.053088 -> 0.05309
  • Falling speed: 0.98 -> 0.95
  • Fast-falling speed: 1.568 -> 1.52
  • Weight: 68 -> 70
• Dr. Mario
  • Walk speed: 1.1 -> 1.1671 (1.1671 * 0.82 -> 0.957022)
  • Run speed: 1.6 -> 1.6976 (1.6976 * 0.82 -> 1.392032)
  • Air acceleration: 0.07 -> 0.07427 (0.07427 * 0.82 -> 0.0609014)
  • Air speed: 1.15 -> 1.22015 (1.22015 * 0.82 -> 1.000523)
• Lucina
  • No changes
• Dark Pit
  • Walk speed: 1.199 -> 1.2
  • Run speed: 1.66215 -> 1.663
  • Air speed: 0.89 -> 0.9
• Rosalina
  • Walk speed: 1.0835 -> 1.09
  • Run speed: 1.632 -> 1.65
  • Air speed: 1 -> 1.25
  • Weight: 77 -> 85
• Wii Fit Trainer
  • Run speed: 1.696 -> 1.7
• Little Mac
  • Walk speed: 1.32 -> 1.35
• Villager
  • No changes
• Palutena
  • Walk speed: 1.21 -> 1.23
  • Run speed: 1.888 -> 1.9
  • Air speed: 0.91 -> 1.14
  • Weight: 91 -> 95
• Robin
  • Weight: 95 -> 98
• Duck Hunt
  • Walk speed: 1.155 -> 1.16
  • Falling speed: 1.65 -> 1.55
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.64 -> 2.48
  • Weight: 91 -> 90
• Bowser Jr.
  • No changes
• Shulk
  • No changes
• Greninja
  • No changes
• PAC-MAN
  • No changes
• Mega Man
  • No changes
• Mewtwo
  • Walk speed: 1.2 -> 1.21
  • Falling speed: 1.5 -> 1.68
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.4 -> 2.688
  • Weight: 74 -> 85
• Ryu
  • Weight: 103 -> 104
• Lucas
  • Air acceleration: 0.085 -> 0.09
  • Air speed: 1.1 -> 1.05
• Roy
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.9 -> 2.88
  • Weight: 95 -> 100
• Cloud
  • Weight: 100 -> 104
• Bayonetta
  • Weight: 84 -> 78
• Corrin
  • Walk speed: 1.15 -> 1.2
  • Run speed: 1.45 -> 1.5
  • Air speed: 0.97 -> 1.15
• Giga Bowser
  • No changes
• Wario-Man
  • Weight: 107 -> 108
• Giga Mac
  • No changes
• Mega Lucario
  • Walk speed: 1 -> 1.05
  • Run speed: 1.4847 -> 1.55
  • Air speed: 1.04 -> 1.1
  • Weight: 99 -> 100
• Mii Brawler (Fighting Mii Team)
  • No changes
• Mii Swordfighter (Fighting Mii Team)
  • No changes
• Mii Gunner (Fighting Mii Team)
  • No changes

 

[Yoshister]

Luigi
Air speed: 0.7341766 -> 0.92

Rosalina
Walk speed: 1.0835 -> 1.09
Run speed: 1.632 -> 1.65
Air speed: 1 -> 1.25
Weight: 77 -> 85

Mewtwo
Walk speed: 1.2 -> 1.21
Falling speed: 1.5 -> 1.68
Fast-falling speed: 2.4 -> 2.688
Weight: 74 -> 85

Bayonetta
Weight: 84 -> 78

Please explain why you think these are good ideas.

 

[Frihetsanka]

What's your reasoning behind changing the weight of some characters by 1-2?

And why are you buffing Fox and Sonic? Both are top tier already.

 

[Grandpoobah]

I am now the most happy stick of butter that ever existed.

Could you also increase Game and Watches weight and decrease lag for the opening of Peach's parasol?

 

[Spark31]

Could you also increase Game and Watches weight and decrease lag for the opening of Peach's parasol?

Plz don't double post. Just edit the previous one.

 

[Bombchu Link]

Dsmash SDI multiplier > 0.000000001 (also sucks opponents in once they are hit)
Dsmash FAF: 55 > 52
Dtilt Startup; frame 13 > 9 (Change value of tumble state of hit opponent so they cannot tech the move [like footstools])
Turnip pluck FAF: frame 43 > 35
Dash attack hit 1 BKB; 30 (treat everyone's weight as 100)


Reasons: People can SDI Dsmash, half the time making the move unreliable. Also 28 frames of end lag is to much, tone it down a little

Dtilt is almost useless at 13 frames; I know it goes into a 50/50 kill setup but please make is useful actually

Turnip plucking takes really long, taking 5 frames off it won't make the move too fast but will help it out quite a bit.

Dash attack's first hit-box doesn't properly combo into itself with high rage and on light characters so adding set knock-back so it always work or having all the opponent treated as the same weight would be very helpful in make in more reliable.


These buffs aren't game breaking; but they remove the little stupid things peach has and would really imao make her a perfect character without going overboard on buffs.

 

[Spark31]

Dsmash SDI multiplier > 0.000000001 (also sucks opponents in once they are hit)
Dsmash FAF: 55 > 52
Dtilt Startup; frame 13 > 9 (Change value of tumble state of hit opponent so they cannot tech the move [like footstools])
Turnip pluck FAF: frame 43 > 35
Dash attack hit 1 BKB; 30 (treat everyone's weight as 100)


Reasons: People can SDI Dsmash, half the time making the move unreliable. Also 28 frames of end lag is to much, tone it down a little

Dtilt is almost useless at 13 frames; I know it goes into a 50/50 kill setup but please make is useful actually

Turnip plucking takes really long, taking 5 frames off it won't make the move too fast but will help it out quite a bit.

Dash attack's first hit-box doesn't properly combo into itself with high rage and on light characters so adding set knock-back so it always work or having all the opponent treated as the same weight would be very helpful in make in more reliable.


These buffs aren't game breaking; but they remove the little stupid things peach has and would really imao make her a perfect character without going overboard on buffs.

Don't take my word on it, but I think you can't make a move untechable. At the very least it would be difficult. Are any moves untechable already? If so you could use those for reference.

EDIT: Couldn't you make down tilt go up without the spiking hitbox at all as well?

 

[Smashifer]

Don't take my word on it, but I think you can't make a move untechable. At the very least it would be difficult. Are any moves untechable already? If so you could use those for reference.

EDIT: Couldn't you make down tilt go up without the spiking hitbox at all as well?

Ganondorf and Falco's down airs are untechable if they hit an opponent while standing on the ground.

 

[Furret24]

I did spend some time messing around with the fighter attributes. I don't know about moveset editing, but I can modify each fighter's speed, weight, gravity, and traction attributes.

Anyway, the spoiler box below shows the changes that I've been experimenting on, using the 1.1.6 update attributes.

If you don't like the contents that are in the spoiler box, you don't have to implement them. Some of the changes do make certain fighters operate better though.

Note: I do not have Lucas, Ryu, or Bayonetta, so I'm not able to test any changes that I make to them. Also, some Final Smash fighters do have their attributes modified.

Spoiler

• Mii Brawler
  • No changes
• Mii Swordfighter
  • No changes
• Mii Gunner
  • No changes
• Mario
  • No changes
• Donkey Kong
  • Run speed: 1.7031 -> 1.705
  • Weight: 122 -> 124
• Link
  • Run speed: 1.3944 -> 1.4
• Samus
  • Walk speed: 1.0615 -> 1.062
  • Run speed: 1.504 -> 1.51
  • Gravity: 0.077 -> 0.075
  • Falling speed: 1.3 -> 1.25
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.08 -> 2
  • Weight: 108 -> 112
• Yoshi
  • Falling speed: 1.29 -> 1.28
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.064 -> 2.048
  • Weight: 104 -> 102
• Kirby
  • Air speed: 0.8 -> 1.04
  • Weight: 79 -> 77
• Fox
  • Run speed: 2.184 -> 2.2
  • Weight: 79 -> 80
• Pikachu
  • Run speed: 1.85325 -> 1.855
  • Air speed: 0.9118 -> 0.92
  • Weight: 79 -> 78
• Luigi
  • Air speed: 0.7341766 -> 0.92
• Captain Falcon
  • Air speed: 1.1 -> 1.18
  • Falling speed: 1.837 -> 1.85
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.9392 -> 2.96
• Ness
  • Walk speed: 0.8635 -> 0.875
  • Run speed: 1.46265 -> 1.465
  • Air acceleration: 0.09 -> 0.1
  • Air speed: 0.9588 -> 0.96
  • Weight: 94 -> 97
• Peach
  • Run speed: 1.4175 -> 1.45
  • Air speed: 0.95 -> 1.19
  • Weight: 89 -> 85
• Bowser
  • Falling speed: 1.39 -> 1.4
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.224 -> 2.24
  • Weight: 130 -> 132
• Zelda
  • Air speed: 1.04 -> 1.08
  • Falling speed: 1.35 -> 1.22
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.16 -> 1.952
• Sheik
  • Run speed: 2.016 -> 2.02
  • Air speed: 1.1 -> 0.88
  • Weight: 81 -> 85
• Marth
  • No changes
• Mr. Game & Watch
  • Walk speed: 1.1242 -> 1.125
  • Run speed: 1.5264 -> 1.55
  • Air speed: 1.12 -> 1.15
• Ganondorf
  • Run speed: 1.218 -> 1.2
  • Air speed: 0.79 -> 0.8
  • Gravity: 0.107835 -> 0.10784
  • Weight: 113 -> 115
• Falco
  • Run speed: 1.472 -> 1.92
• Wario
  • Weight: 107 -> 108
• Meta Knight
  • Walk speed: 1.18 -> 1.19
  • Air speed: 0.99 -> 0.8
  • Falling speed: 1.66 -> 1.56
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.656 -> 2.496
• Pit
  • Walk speed: 1.199 -> 1.2
  • Run speed: 1.66215 -> 1.663
  • Air speed: 0.89 -> 0.9
• Zero Suit Samus
  • No changes
• Olimar
  • Falling speed: 1.35 -> 1.3
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.16 -> 2.08
  • Weight: 79 -> 78
• Diddy Kong
  • No changes
• King Dedede
  • Air speed: 0.63 -> 0.7
  • Weight: 119 -> 120
• Ike
  • Walk speed: 0.869 -> 0.87
  • Weight: 107 -> 108
• Lucario
  • Air speed: 1.09 -> 1.1
  • Falling speed: 1.68 -> 1.56
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.688 -> 2.496
  • Weight: 99 -> 100
• R.O.B.
  • No changes
• Toon Link
  • Walk speed: 1.2265 -> 1.23
  • Run speed: 1.7325 -> 1.75
  • Air speed: 0.94 -> 1.14
• Charizard
  • Walk speed: 1.2 -> 1.21
  • Traction: 0.04 -> 0.06
  • Air speed: 0.92 -> 1.09
  • Weight: 116 -> 118
• Sonic
  • Walk speed: 1.375 -> 1.4
  • Weight: 94 -> 95
• Jigglypuff
  • Run speed: 1.155 -> 1.1
  • Air speed: 1.269 -> 1.35
  • Gravity: 0.053088 -> 0.05309
  • Falling speed: 0.98 -> 0.95
  • Fast-falling speed: 1.568 -> 1.52
  • Weight: 68 -> 70
• Dr. Mario
  • Walk speed: 1.1 -> 1.1671 (1.1671 * 0.82 -> 0.957022)
  • Run speed: 1.6 -> 1.6976 (1.6976 * 0.82 -> 1.392032)
  • Air acceleration: 0.07 -> 0.07427 (0.07427 * 0.82 -> 0.0609014)
  • Air speed: 1.15 -> 1.22015 (1.22015 * 0.82 -> 1.000523)
• Lucina
  • No changes
• Dark Pit
  • Walk speed: 1.199 -> 1.2
  • Run speed: 1.66215 -> 1.663
  • Air speed: 0.89 -> 0.9
• Rosalina
  • Walk speed: 1.0835 -> 1.09
  • Run speed: 1.632 -> 1.65
  • Air speed: 1 -> 1.25
  • Weight: 77 -> 85
• Wii Fit Trainer
  • Run speed: 1.696 -> 1.7
• Little Mac
  • Walk speed: 1.32 -> 1.35
• Villager
  • No changes
• Palutena
  • Walk speed: 1.21 -> 1.23
  • Run speed: 1.888 -> 1.9
  • Air speed: 0.91 -> 1.14
  • Weight: 91 -> 95
• Robin
  • Weight: 95 -> 98
• Duck Hunt
  • Walk speed: 1.155 -> 1.16
  • Falling speed: 1.65 -> 1.55
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.64 -> 2.48
  • Weight: 91 -> 90
• Bowser Jr.
  • No changes
• Shulk
  • No changes
• Greninja
  • No changes
• PAC-MAN
  • No changes
• Mega Man
  • No changes
• Mewtwo
  • Walk speed: 1.2 -> 1.21
  • Falling speed: 1.5 -> 1.68
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.4 -> 2.688
  • Weight: 74 -> 85
• Ryu
  • Weight: 103 -> 104
• Lucas
  • Air acceleration: 0.085 -> 0.09
  • Air speed: 1.1 -> 1.05
• Roy
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.9 -> 2.88
  • Weight: 95 -> 100
• Cloud
  • Weight: 100 -> 104
• Bayonetta
  • Weight: 84 -> 78
• Corrin
  • Walk speed: 1.15 -> 1.2
  • Run speed: 1.45 -> 1.5
  • Air speed: 0.97 -> 1.15
• Giga Bowser
  • No changes
• Wario-Man
  • Weight: 107 -> 108
• Giga Mac
  • No changes
• Mega Lucario
  • Walk speed: 1 -> 1.05
  • Run speed: 1.4847 -> 1.55
  • Air speed: 1.04 -> 1.1
  • Weight: 99 -> 100
• Mii Brawler (Fighting Mii Team)
  • No changes
• Mii Swordfighter (Fighting Mii Team)
  • No changes
• Mii Gunner (Fighting Mii Team)
  • No changes

A lot changes here are really insignificant (you changed a lot of speed attributes by less than 0.1, why?). Why make those changes if they don't mean anything?

 

[Spark31]

Ganondorf and Falco's down airs are untechable if they hit an opponent while standing on the ground.

I don't think falco's actually spikes then on the ground. I'm fairly certain it does a check to see if your opponent is on the ground and they are it uses a different hitbox. Also could be wrong there though.

 

[Smashifer]

I don't think falco's actually spikes then on the ground. I'm fairly certain it does a check to see if your opponent is on the ground and they are it uses a different hitbox. Also could be wrong there though.

That could be a possibility

 

[Smoutebollen]

-snip-

-snip-

I'll reply to both of you at once here as I'm slightly lazy.

Some kind of quality enforcement is required when retrieving improvement suggestions off of dated posts, though. People may have figured out new ways to use her tools in their current, unmodified state, and since established a new perception on which changes she should be subjected to.
Shaving off 10 frames off of most of her ground solutions is a little very strong for the aerial options she can lead them into, and may result in unintended, game-breaking combo potential.
Reducing her up air's landing lag to the same amount of frames as her forward air while not touching any of her other aerial options is, in my opinion, a questionable approach at best.
I would definitely discuss these changes with people who happen to be more experienced with Palutena, as well as a small testing group which tests said changes extensively and provides feedback. My comparatively less drastic changes I personally tested often ended up far too strong and saw a good many revisions until I got them to a comfortable point.

Shaving off four or six frames - as well as a tiny bit of knockback - off her up tilt is more than enough for Palutena to follow up to that with a neutral air. If you were to reduce her neutral air's FAF by two, maybe even three frames, and restore her neutral air's original knockback while maybe buffing her multi hits by 0.1% (+0.5% if all hit), maybe even 0.2% (+1% if all hit), she'd be able to link those into one another at low percentages.
You could have a simple "bread and butter" combo which allows her to quickly rack up damage off an up tilt or a down throw like that which isn't as extremely lenient as what these current ground move buffs allow for (no offence intended).

Speaking of her neutral air - her hitboxes should be slightly closer to the centre of the staff, with their size being increased a tiny bit to compensate for their shift, to make it hit more consistently. Just moving them by 0.2 units and increasing the hitboxes by that amount should suffice.

As for the specials glitches, have you tested performing a special which spawns projectiles as you land? As in, doing a short hop and immediately performing a special of that kind?
That's where I often and frequently experienced said issues. I can unfortunately not record it right now, as I've since removed that change and am too lazy to implement it again, but I'm pretty sure that it may result in odd behaviour.
It all might depend on how you plan to implement said startup modifications, however. If you could elaborate on that part, I'd be grateful.

Improving a character's limitations is easily done, but it all depends on what needs changing and what doesn't need changing, as well as how these changes synergise with one another.
I don't feel a lot of synergy throughout all these adjustments, and many of them feel as though they're directed towards a crowd which'd generally prefer reduced endlag, which isn't inherently wrong - I agree with this, even - but requires tuning and a clear, set direction throughout, to maximise the amount of utility she gains out of it.

 

[KingJigglypuff]

-snip

Thanks for the explanations, it'll help me out in the long run if/when I get to Peach.

-snip

I get what you mean, and I agree. I'm considering joining the Palutena Discord and asking about what they would like changed and what could be agreed upon, but I'm not sure if they'd be willing to talk with a modder about a fan mod. Same goes for any other character Discord.

For startup modifications, I insert the command at the beginning, then I set it back to 1 when the hitboxes come out. I understand what you mean when you mention the landing stuff, as that was an issue in Brawl, too. I could see what happens if the command is set in a loop though.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Please explain why you think these are good ideas.

For Luigi, the air speed increase is mostly for recovery reasons. By increasing Luigi's air speed, it would make him less reliant on Green Missile for his horizontal recovery.

As for Rosalina and Mewtwo, their weight buffs try to help them survive a bit longer, with Mewtwo getting a falling speed increase as well. Also, while a personal reason, I pretty much felt that the three lightest fighters should've remained being Jigglypuff, Mr. Game & Watch, and Kirby; I did increase Jigglypuff's weight to 70, but it's still the lightest of all fighters.

Lastly, the weight nerf on Bayonetta is just to add more risk to her combat style; it was something that I wanted to give to her anyway. It's basically the final nail in the coffin to go with the nerfs that update 1.1.6 gave to her.

A lot changes here are really insignificant (you changed a lot of speed attributes by less than 0.1, why?). Why make those changes if they don't mean anything?

I mostly did it to round certain decimal values to the nearest thousandth or hundredth. Dr. Mario is an exception, due to how the game handles his attributes.

Pointless perhaps, but I just didn't like to see long decimal values for the speed attributes.

 

[Furret24]

For Luigi, the air speed increase is mostly for recovery reasons. By increasing Luigi's air speed, it would make him less reliant on Green Missile for his horizontal recovery.

As for Rosalina and Mewtwo, their weight buffs try to help them survive a bit longer, with Mewtwo getting a falling speed increase as well. Also, while a personal reason, I pretty much felt that the three lightest fighters should've remained being Jigglypuff, Mr. Game & Watch, and Kirby; I did increase Jigglypuff's weight to 70, but it's still the lightest of all fighters.

Lastly, the weight nerf on Bayonetta is just to add more risk to her combat style; it was something that I wanted to give to her anyway. It's basically the final nail in the coffin to go with the nerfs that update 1.1.6 gave to her.

It would also make Luigi's aerial combo strings even more ridiculous. :V

As for Mewtwo and Rosalina, they don't need to live longer. Dying early is their core issue for their archetype, it's what keeps them in check. They're glass cannons.

 

[VPTurnip]

I like the direction you're going with this.
For a fan patch like this, it looks like it's being handled cautiously and carefully.
I'd offer Wii Fit advice, as I've played them for over a year now as a secondary, mostly on Smash Ladder, however I am not a notable player and I wouldn't take my own words as any sort of expertise in any case. Not to mention I rather feel Wii Fit is not in a bad way as it is.

But keep up the dedication. And good work so far.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It would also make Luigi's aerial combo strings even more ridiculous. :V

As for Mewtwo and Rosalina, they don't need to live longer. Dying early is their core issue for their archetype, it's what keeps them in check. They're glass cannons.

I wouldn't really know about Luigi's overall air game, since I'm not a competitive player. My main concern was just helping him with his recovery.

In regards to Rosalina and Mewtwo, at least I didn't set their weight values to above average levels (something that I've done before).

On a side note, for the fighters that I made air speed nerfs to, I did test to make sure that they can still pull off long-ranged recoveries; not too hard for Meta Knight to do, thanks to his versatile recovery options.

 

[Eugene Wang]

Smoutebollen A combo that can be started by some of the laggiest tilts in the game sounds like appropriate reward for the risk. Fair point about the aerials, though.

 

[Sardonyx]

Question. Am I allowed to just post changes I would make to Zelda from base Zelda without the changes you guys have already done?

 

[Doomis]

How can I actually try this mod? I'm completely new to this and I have no idea how to make it work. I have downloaded the files so what's next?

 

[Silent Hell]

I highly doubt Bayonetta needs the weight nerf. God, at least make her divekick combo into other moves please. Making it completely useless is painful. That SDI multiplier could use rebalancing. Being able to DI UNDER Bayonetta is ridiculous. Getting punished for successfully starting combos shouldn't be a thing.

 

[KingJigglypuff]

Question. Am I allowed to just post changes I would make to Zelda from base Zelda without the changes you guys have already done?

You're free to suggest changes in whatever way you like.

-snip

It's against the rules to discuss how to mod your system in a thread, so I'll let you know via PM.

I highly doubt Bayonetta needs the weight nerf. God, at least make her divekick combo into other moves please. Making it completely useless is painful. That SDI multiplier could use rebalancing. Being able to DI UNDER Bayonetta is ridiculous. Getting punished for successfully starting combos shouldn't be a thing.

I really don't want to touch Bayonetta of all characters right now. I could consider toying around with it, but I don't want to touch such a controversial character in positive ways. At least not yet.

 

[TeddyBearYoshi]

I like the dedede changes but I have one big issue; the dash attack. I know the idea was to make it go farther, but the slide at the end just makes it really jank and a lot of times makes it do something completely different than it's intended, if you get shielded you slide away to the other side of the stage, and it can be actually disadvantageous to Dedede. Is there any way you could make it go farther without the weird and seemingly broken slide?

EDIT: Also, Wario seems to freeze the Wii U when picking up his bike sometimes.

I did spend some time messing around with the fighter attributes. I don't know about moveset editing, but I can modify each fighter's speed, weight, gravity, and traction attributes.

Anyway, the spoiler box below shows the changes that I've been experimenting on, using the 1.1.6 update attributes.

If you don't like the contents that are in the spoiler box, you don't have to implement them. Some of the changes do make certain fighters operate better though.

Note: I do not have Lucas, Ryu, or Bayonetta, so I'm not able to test any changes that I make to them. Also, some Final Smash fighters do have their attributes modified.

Spoiler

• Mii Brawler
  • No changes
• Mii Swordfighter
  • No changes
• Mii Gunner
  • No changes
• Mario
  • No changes
• Donkey Kong
  • Run speed: 1.7031 -> 1.705
  • Weight: 122 -> 124
• Link
  • Run speed: 1.3944 -> 1.4
• Samus
  • Walk speed: 1.0615 -> 1.062
  • Run speed: 1.504 -> 1.51
  • Gravity: 0.077 -> 0.075
  • Falling speed: 1.3 -> 1.25
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.08 -> 2
  • Weight: 108 -> 112
• Yoshi
  • Falling speed: 1.29 -> 1.28
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.064 -> 2.048
  • Weight: 104 -> 102
• Kirby
  • Air speed: 0.8 -> 1.04
  • Weight: 79 -> 77
• Fox
  • Run speed: 2.184 -> 2.2
  • Weight: 79 -> 80
• Pikachu
  • Run speed: 1.85325 -> 1.855
  • Air speed: 0.9118 -> 0.92
  • Weight: 79 -> 78
• Luigi
  • Air speed: 0.7341766 -> 0.92
• Captain Falcon
  • Air speed: 1.1 -> 1.18
  • Falling speed: 1.837 -> 1.85
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.9392 -> 2.96
• Ness
  • Walk speed: 0.8635 -> 0.875
  • Run speed: 1.46265 -> 1.465
  • Air acceleration: 0.09 -> 0.1
  • Air speed: 0.9588 -> 0.96
  • Weight: 94 -> 97
• Peach
  • Run speed: 1.4175 -> 1.45
  • Air speed: 0.95 -> 1.19
  • Weight: 89 -> 85
• Bowser
  • Falling speed: 1.39 -> 1.4
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.224 -> 2.24
  • Weight: 130 -> 132
• Zelda
  • Air speed: 1.04 -> 1.08
  • Falling speed: 1.35 -> 1.22
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.16 -> 1.952
• Sheik
  • Run speed: 2.016 -> 2.02
  • Air speed: 1.1 -> 0.88
  • Weight: 81 -> 85
• Marth
  • No changes
• Mr. Game & Watch
  • Walk speed: 1.1242 -> 1.125
  • Run speed: 1.5264 -> 1.55
  • Air speed: 1.12 -> 1.15
• Ganondorf
  • Run speed: 1.218 -> 1.2
  • Air speed: 0.79 -> 0.8
  • Gravity: 0.107835 -> 0.10784
  • Weight: 113 -> 115
• Falco
  • Run speed: 1.472 -> 1.92
• Wario
  • Weight: 107 -> 108
• Meta Knight
  • Walk speed: 1.18 -> 1.19
  • Air speed: 0.99 -> 0.8
  • Falling speed: 1.66 -> 1.56
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.656 -> 2.496
• Pit
  • Walk speed: 1.199 -> 1.2
  • Run speed: 1.66215 -> 1.663
  • Air speed: 0.89 -> 0.9
• Zero Suit Samus
  • No changes
• Olimar
  • Falling speed: 1.35 -> 1.3
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.16 -> 2.08
  • Weight: 79 -> 78
• Diddy Kong
  • No changes
• King Dedede
  • Air speed: 0.63 -> 0.7
  • Weight: 119 -> 120
• Ike
  • Walk speed: 0.869 -> 0.87
  • Weight: 107 -> 108
• Lucario
  • Air speed: 1.09 -> 1.1
  • Falling speed: 1.68 -> 1.56
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.688 -> 2.496
  • Weight: 99 -> 100
• R.O.B.
  • No changes
• Toon Link
  • Walk speed: 1.2265 -> 1.23
  • Run speed: 1.7325 -> 1.75
  • Air speed: 0.94 -> 1.14
• Charizard
  • Walk speed: 1.2 -> 1.21
  • Traction: 0.04 -> 0.06
  • Air speed: 0.92 -> 1.09
  • Weight: 116 -> 118
• Sonic
  • Walk speed: 1.375 -> 1.4
  • Weight: 94 -> 95
• Jigglypuff
  • Run speed: 1.155 -> 1.1
  • Air speed: 1.269 -> 1.35
  • Gravity: 0.053088 -> 0.05309
  • Falling speed: 0.98 -> 0.95
  • Fast-falling speed: 1.568 -> 1.52
  • Weight: 68 -> 70
• Dr. Mario
  • Walk speed: 1.1 -> 1.1671 (1.1671 * 0.82 -> 0.957022)
  • Run speed: 1.6 -> 1.6976 (1.6976 * 0.82 -> 1.392032)
  • Air acceleration: 0.07 -> 0.07427 (0.07427 * 0.82 -> 0.0609014)
  • Air speed: 1.15 -> 1.22015 (1.22015 * 0.82 -> 1.000523)
• Lucina
  • No changes
• Dark Pit
  • Walk speed: 1.199 -> 1.2
  • Run speed: 1.66215 -> 1.663
  • Air speed: 0.89 -> 0.9
• Rosalina
  • Walk speed: 1.0835 -> 1.09
  • Run speed: 1.632 -> 1.65
  • Air speed: 1 -> 1.25
  • Weight: 77 -> 85
• Wii Fit Trainer
  • Run speed: 1.696 -> 1.7
• Little Mac
  • Walk speed: 1.32 -> 1.35
• Villager
  • No changes
• Palutena
  • Walk speed: 1.21 -> 1.23
  • Run speed: 1.888 -> 1.9
  • Air speed: 0.91 -> 1.14
  • Weight: 91 -> 95
• Robin
  • Weight: 95 -> 98
• Duck Hunt
  • Walk speed: 1.155 -> 1.16
  • Falling speed: 1.65 -> 1.55
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.64 -> 2.48
  • Weight: 91 -> 90
• Bowser Jr.
  • No changes
• Shulk
  • No changes
• Greninja
  • No changes
• PAC-MAN
  • No changes
• Mega Man
  • No changes
• Mewtwo
  • Walk speed: 1.2 -> 1.21
  • Falling speed: 1.5 -> 1.68
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.4 -> 2.688
  • Weight: 74 -> 85
• Ryu
  • Weight: 103 -> 104
• Lucas
  • Air acceleration: 0.085 -> 0.09
  • Air speed: 1.1 -> 1.05
• Roy
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.9 -> 2.88
  • Weight: 95 -> 100
• Cloud
  • Weight: 100 -> 104
• Bayonetta
  • Weight: 84 -> 78
• Corrin
  • Walk speed: 1.15 -> 1.2
  • Run speed: 1.45 -> 1.5
  • Air speed: 0.97 -> 1.15
• Giga Bowser
  • No changes
• Wario-Man
  • Weight: 107 -> 108
• Giga Mac
  • No changes
• Mega Lucario
  • Walk speed: 1 -> 1.05
  • Run speed: 1.4847 -> 1.55
  • Air speed: 1.04 -> 1.1
  • Weight: 99 -> 100
• Mii Brawler (Fighting Mii Team)
  • No changes
• Mii Swordfighter (Fighting Mii Team)
  • No changes
• Mii Gunner (Fighting Mii Team)
  • No changes

Er... why? Why any of these? Why would you want Bayonetta to be nerfed AGAIN? Buffing Cloud? Wha? No changes to any of the Miis? No offense but these are pretty bad changes. :|

 

[SM Mystic]

I did spend some time messing around with the fighter attributes. I don't know about moveset editing, but I can modify each fighter's speed, weight, gravity, and traction attributes.

Anyway, the spoiler box below shows the changes that I've been experimenting on, using the 1.1.6 update attributes.

If you don't like the contents that are in the spoiler box, you don't have to implement them. Some of the changes do make certain fighters operate better though.

Note: I do not have Lucas, Ryu, or Bayonetta, so I'm not able to test any changes that I make to them. Also, some Final Smash fighters do have their attributes modified.

Spoiler

• Mii Brawler
  • No changes
• Mii Swordfighter
  • No changes
• Mii Gunner
  • No changes
• Mario
  • No changes
• Donkey Kong
  • Run speed: 1.7031 -> 1.705
  • Weight: 122 -> 124
• Link
  • Run speed: 1.3944 -> 1.4
• Samus
  • Walk speed: 1.0615 -> 1.062
  • Run speed: 1.504 -> 1.51
  • Gravity: 0.077 -> 0.075
  • Falling speed: 1.3 -> 1.25
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.08 -> 2
  • Weight: 108 -> 112
• Yoshi
  • Falling speed: 1.29 -> 1.28
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.064 -> 2.048
  • Weight: 104 -> 102
• Kirby
  • Air speed: 0.8 -> 1.04
  • Weight: 79 -> 77
• Fox
  • Run speed: 2.184 -> 2.2
  • Weight: 79 -> 80
• Pikachu
  • Run speed: 1.85325 -> 1.855
  • Air speed: 0.9118 -> 0.92
  • Weight: 79 -> 78
• Luigi
  • Air speed: 0.7341766 -> 0.92
• Captain Falcon
  • Air speed: 1.1 -> 1.18
  • Falling speed: 1.837 -> 1.85
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.9392 -> 2.96
• Ness
  • Walk speed: 0.8635 -> 0.875
  • Run speed: 1.46265 -> 1.465
  • Air acceleration: 0.09 -> 0.1
  • Air speed: 0.9588 -> 0.96
  • Weight: 94 -> 97
• Peach
  • Run speed: 1.4175 -> 1.45
  • Air speed: 0.95 -> 1.19
  • Weight: 89 -> 85
• Bowser
  • Falling speed: 1.39 -> 1.4
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.224 -> 2.24
  • Weight: 130 -> 132
• Zelda
  • Air speed: 1.04 -> 1.08
  • Falling speed: 1.35 -> 1.22
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.16 -> 1.952
• Sheik
  • Run speed: 2.016 -> 2.02
  • Air speed: 1.1 -> 0.88
  • Weight: 81 -> 85
• Marth
  • No changes
• Mr. Game & Watch
  • Walk speed: 1.1242 -> 1.125
  • Run speed: 1.5264 -> 1.55
  • Air speed: 1.12 -> 1.15
• Ganondorf
  • Run speed: 1.218 -> 1.2
  • Air speed: 0.79 -> 0.8
  • Gravity: 0.107835 -> 0.10784
  • Weight: 113 -> 115
• Falco
  • Run speed: 1.472 -> 1.92
• Wario
  • Weight: 107 -> 108
• Meta Knight
  • Walk speed: 1.18 -> 1.19
  • Air speed: 0.99 -> 0.8
  • Falling speed: 1.66 -> 1.56
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.656 -> 2.496
• Pit
  • Walk speed: 1.199 -> 1.2
  • Run speed: 1.66215 -> 1.663
  • Air speed: 0.89 -> 0.9
• Zero Suit Samus
  • No changes
• Olimar
  • Falling speed: 1.35 -> 1.3
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.16 -> 2.08
  • Weight: 79 -> 78
• Diddy Kong
  • No changes
• King Dedede
  • Air speed: 0.63 -> 0.7
  • Weight: 119 -> 120
• Ike
  • Walk speed: 0.869 -> 0.87
  • Weight: 107 -> 108
• Lucario
  • Air speed: 1.09 -> 1.1
  • Falling speed: 1.68 -> 1.56
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.688 -> 2.496
  • Weight: 99 -> 100
• R.O.B.
  • No changes
• Toon Link
  • Walk speed: 1.2265 -> 1.23
  • Run speed: 1.7325 -> 1.75
  • Air speed: 0.94 -> 1.14
• Charizard
  • Walk speed: 1.2 -> 1.21
  • Traction: 0.04 -> 0.06
  • Air speed: 0.92 -> 1.09
  • Weight: 116 -> 118
• Sonic
  • Walk speed: 1.375 -> 1.4
  • Weight: 94 -> 95
• Jigglypuff
  • Run speed: 1.155 -> 1.1
  • Air speed: 1.269 -> 1.35
  • Gravity: 0.053088 -> 0.05309
  • Falling speed: 0.98 -> 0.95
  • Fast-falling speed: 1.568 -> 1.52
  • Weight: 68 -> 70
• Dr. Mario
  • Walk speed: 1.1 -> 1.1671 (1.1671 * 0.82 -> 0.957022)
  • Run speed: 1.6 -> 1.6976 (1.6976 * 0.82 -> 1.392032)
  • Air acceleration: 0.07 -> 0.07427 (0.07427 * 0.82 -> 0.0609014)
  • Air speed: 1.15 -> 1.22015 (1.22015 * 0.82 -> 1.000523)
• Lucina
  • No changes
• Dark Pit
  • Walk speed: 1.199 -> 1.2
  • Run speed: 1.66215 -> 1.663
  • Air speed: 0.89 -> 0.9
• Rosalina
  • Walk speed: 1.0835 -> 1.09
  • Run speed: 1.632 -> 1.65
  • Air speed: 1 -> 1.25
  • Weight: 77 -> 85
• Wii Fit Trainer
  • Run speed: 1.696 -> 1.7
• Little Mac
  • Walk speed: 1.32 -> 1.35
• Villager
  • No changes
• Palutena
  • Walk speed: 1.21 -> 1.23
  • Run speed: 1.888 -> 1.9
  • Air speed: 0.91 -> 1.14
  • Weight: 91 -> 95
• Robin
  • Weight: 95 -> 98
• Duck Hunt
  • Walk speed: 1.155 -> 1.16
  • Falling speed: 1.65 -> 1.55
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.64 -> 2.48
  • Weight: 91 -> 90
• Bowser Jr.
  • No changes
• Shulk
  • No changes
• Greninja
  • No changes
• PAC-MAN
  • No changes
• Mega Man
  • No changes
• Mewtwo
  • Walk speed: 1.2 -> 1.21
  • Falling speed: 1.5 -> 1.68
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.4 -> 2.688
  • Weight: 74 -> 85
• Ryu
  • Weight: 103 -> 104
• Lucas
  • Air acceleration: 0.085 -> 0.09
  • Air speed: 1.1 -> 1.05
• Roy
  • Fast-falling speed: 2.9 -> 2.88
  • Weight: 95 -> 100
• Cloud
  • Weight: 100 -> 104
• Bayonetta
  • Weight: 84 -> 78
• Corrin
  • Walk speed: 1.15 -> 1.2
  • Run speed: 1.45 -> 1.5
  • Air speed: 0.97 -> 1.15
• Giga Bowser
  • No changes
• Wario-Man
  • Weight: 107 -> 108
• Giga Mac
  • No changes
• Mega Lucario
  • Walk speed: 1 -> 1.05
  • Run speed: 1.4847 -> 1.55
  • Air speed: 1.04 -> 1.1
  • Weight: 99 -> 100
• Mii Brawler (Fighting Mii Team)
  • No changes
• Mii Swordfighter (Fighting Mii Team)
  • No changes
• Mii Gunner (Fighting Mii Team)
  • No changes

Please give Zelda at least a few more units of weight. If you're gonna buff Sheik's weight again, buff Zelda's too. Zelda's in a dress which is much heavier than Sheik in ninja's clothes (hence why Sakurai nerfed her weight in the first place).

 

[Sardonyx]

There was way too much to copy, but this is my ideal zelda

 

[Eugene Wang]

As for Falco, my personal suggestions:

• Increase air speed. My personal got says to put it at 1.02, but I don't have a Wii U to mod, so go with what works. This gives Falco more flexibility and reduces his movement polarization.
• Everyone and their mother suggests reducing laser endlag to allow him to actually play a long-range projectile game. My personal gut says to put it at 48/42 frames for grounded/aerial, but as always, whatever works. No autocancels or fire rate increases, though, since the cast isn't built to deal with projectile camping.
• The sour hits of Dair and phantasm should be weak meteor smashes, not upward hits.
• Reflector should always trip if it connects.
• As always, double check to make sure everything within a move true combos. I heard that jab 2 => jab 3 could be interrupted, so that should be first.

 

[L9999]

For Luigi, the air speed increase is mostly for recovery reasons. By increasing Luigi's air speed, it would make him less reliant on Green Missile for his horizontal recovery.

As for Rosalina and Mewtwo, their weight buffs try to help them survive a bit longer, with Mewtwo getting a falling speed increase as well. Also, while a personal reason, I pretty much felt that the three lightest fighters should've remained being Jigglypuff, Mr. Game & Watch, and Kirby; I did increase Jigglypuff's weight to 70, but it's still the lightest of all fighters.

Lastly, the weight nerf on Bayonetta is just to add more risk to her combat style; it was something that I wanted to give to her anyway. It's basically the final nail in the coffin to go with the nerfs that update 1.1.6 gave to her.

Rosalina is already annoying to approach and touch thanks to her twinkie evil star, now you want her hard to kill too?! Mewtwo has too much ridiculous moves to weight what you propose. Bayo doesn't need further butchering.

KingJigglypuff What about this for Swordfighter? This is considering Guest 1111.

Gale Strike- FAF 78-> 70. Less endlag for more bait potential and overall utility.
Airborne Assault- Something to make it less gimpable. Either charge speed, travel speed, maybe bigger hitboxes?
Stone Scabbard- Let this thing grab the ledge backwards, so it is easier to edgeguard with it, to make up for the fact that the ascent of the move has no hitbox (EZ gimp).
Jab 1- startup frame 6->5.
Foward Tilt- startup frame 11->8.
Up Tilt- FAF 33 -> 30.
Up Smash- Bigger horizontal range matching animation.
Neutral Air: startup frame 11->9.
Foward Air: ^
Bair: Active hitbox frames 8-9 -> 8-10. KBG 100->110.
Grab- Size slightly increased.
Foward Throw/Back Throw- More disfavorable angle to set up for edgeguards or bad situations.

(I know I'm beating up the deadest horse in the graveyard, but bear with me).
Walk acceleration: (0->0.5).
Air speed: (1.02->1.04).
Dolphin Slash: Hitbox increased to match animation.
Foward Tilt: KBG 77->80.
Dash Attack: Startup frame 13->9.
Down Tilt: FAF (frame 24->22) Hitbox active frames: (7-8 -> 7-9).
Nair/Uair: Give them autocancels.
Dair: More active frames of the sweetspot.
Up Throw: Much stronger.
Pummel: 1% more damage
All throws except Down Throw: 1% more damage.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Rosalina is already annoying to approach and touch thanks to her twinkie evil star, now you want her hard to kill too?! Mewtwo has too much ridiculous moves to weight what you propose. Bayo doesn't need further butchering.

If I recall, 85 isn't exactly a heavy weight value, and I do know that that was Mewtwo's weight value in Melee.

Still, I did say that you don't have to utilize the attribute changes that I composed.

 

[L9999]

If I recall, 85 isn't exactly a heavy weight value, and I do know that that was Mewtwo's weight value in Melee.

Still, I did say that you don't have to utilize the attribute changes that I composed.

I know, I know, But my case in that post was: if a character is light but has ridiculous tools to fight the weight won't matter. has been losing weight a lot but it is still hard to kill her because she can get away and pressure you in return. Yes, if you read her with something strong of course she might die early, but good luck touching her at all. Same with . Luma prevents you from touching her, and Rosalina has total liberty of never engaging in combat because of it. Once again, if you land something strong she might die early, but good luck touching her at all. Same with . "But L, if lightweight isn't a weakness in the long run, why do suck because they are light?" That's because they don't have something ridiculous to make up for it. is the perfect example for this case. Lightweight used to be one of M2's weaknesses because his mobility wasn't amazing and he had a lot of malfunctioning moves. Fix that, now he is high tier and still featherweight.

 

[Deleted member]

As long as Jigglypuff gets some kind of buff I'm on board. Looks great so far

BuffPuff

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Er... why? Why any of these? Why would you want Bayonetta to be nerfed AGAIN? Buffing Cloud? Wha? No changes to any of the Miis? No offense but these are pretty bad changes. :|

So you basically hate all the changes that I made? That's rather sad, considering that I did buff a few fighters who actually needed the buffs; .

Still, I can probably see why people despise the idea of seeing Rosalina and Mewtwo get their weight buffed, while Bayonetta gets the weight nerf. I personally found it awkward for Rosalina and Mewtwo to weigh less than Pikachu (and even Kirby); of course, I did set Bayonetta's weight to be tied with Pikachu.

I guess if Bayonetta maintained her 1.1.5 stuff, then the weight nerf would more than likely be valid. But the only way to get back 1.1.5 Bayonetta is to download the 1.1.5 update contents.

 

[Bigbomb2]

I hope this mod is handled very carefully. Should keep a big ol' spreadsheet on what everyone is saying. I also agree with barely touching those in high+ tiers.
Also I can provide some feedback on Link and Bowser if needed

 

[TeddyBearYoshi]

So you basically hate all the changes that I made? That's rather sad, considering that I did buff a few fighters who actually needed the buffs; .

Still, I can probably see why people despise the idea of seeing Rosalina and Mewtwo get their weight buffed, while Bayonetta gets the weight nerf. I personally found it awkward for Rosalina and Mewtwo to weigh less than Pikachu (and even Kirby); of course, I did set Bayonetta's weight to be tied with Pikachu.

I guess if Bayonetta maintained her 1.1.5 stuff, then the weight nerf would more than likely be valid. But the only way to get back 1.1.5 Bayonetta is to download the 1.1.5 update contents.

It's not that I do not think these characters don't deserved to be buffed, it's that the specific changes you had would create a very skewed and overall pretty unstable balancing and a lot of the fighters changed didn't even need to be changed. Mewtwo and Rosalina are fine, Bayonetta is (arguably) fine but there's no point in changing her after 1.1.5 unless it turns out something is actually wrong with her.

The buffs to dedede are basically non-existant and do nothing for him, and Jigglypuff does have a slightly better time at not dying but it doesn't help her at all other than that, she'd still be probably the worst. Yoshi doesn't need any nerfs, he's already gotten some of his best techs removed in patches.. Cloud sure as heck doesn't need a buff, and there's almost no benefit to changing the weight and speed of every character slightly when they're for the most part fine, it doesn't really do anything for anyone.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

T TeddyBearYoshi : Negligible changes have been made by the Nintendo staff itself though; remember the 1-point weight nerf that Rosalina and Sonic received.

 

[KingJigglypuff]

-snip

Yeah, I can look into that for Dedede. For Wario's Bike crashing occasionally, I don't see how that could happen, as I've never edited his bike. I only edited his Forward Smash. Did you manually inject or use the Plug and Play variant?

-snip

I should be able to do everything except remove the helpless state on Mii Sword Fighter's Side Special and give Lucina the Melee hop on Side Special 1. Like with most suggested changes, I'll talk to my council about it.

I hope this mod is handled very carefully. Should keep a big ol' spreadsheet on what everyone is saying. I also agree with barely touching those in high+ tiers.
Also I can provide some feedback on Link and Bowser if needed

I'm trying my best to make sure this mod doesn't end in disaster.

For suggestions, I need to make sure not to just accept everyone's suggestions, but I don't want to be turning down anyone eiter.

You're free to suggest whatever you like, but please be realistic about it.

 

[Bigbomb2]

I'm trying my best to make sure this mod doesn't end in disaster.

For suggestions, I need to make sure not to just accept everyone's suggestions, but I don't want to be turning down anyone eiter.

You're free to suggest whatever you like, but please be realistic about it.

Sure I can message you about it. I'm pretty curious on how this'll go down and excited too.

 

[L9999]

I should be able to do everything except remove the helpless state on Mii Sword Fighter's Side Special and give Lucina the Melee hop on Side Special 1. Like with most suggested changes, I'll talk to my council about it.

So, following this example you cannot remove helpless from nonsense like PK Flash/Din's Fire or give momentum to Cape/Pound?

 

[KingJigglypuff]

So, following this example you cannot remove helpless from nonsense like PK Flash/Din's Fire or give momentum to Cape/Pound?

We believe Action states are handled by MSC, which is something we can't edit yet, but once we can, I'll be sure to look into it, but while it can be applied technically, the animations would also have to be edited for it to look right, which we have yet to achieve (animation editing).

 

[SM Mystic]

There was way too much to copy, but this is my ideal zelda

I feel like Zelda needs a weight buff. If this mod patch buffs Sheik's weight again, they should at least buff Zelda's weight. So it can bring her to midweight.

 

[DPKdebator]

Here's a post I made on a thread about the then-hypothetical 1.1.6 update for my Dr. Mario suggestions.

I don't think the Doc has any changes suggested, so...

• Dashing speed: 1.312 -> 1.5
• Megavitamins IASA on frame 40
• Super Sheet does more damage: 7.84% -> 12%
• Super Jump Punch has increased distance
• Dr. Tornado deals more damage: 8% -> 18%
• Dr. Tornado travels higher and takes less button presses to gain height
• Neutral attack deals more damage: 8.96% -> 13%
• Down aerial autocancels in a short hop, and has less landing lag: 21 -> 16
• Back throw has increased knockback: 70 base/60 growth -> 82 base/72 growth
  
• Megavitamins deal more damage: 5.6% -> 7%
• Neutral aerial does more damage: 5.6% clean/8.96% late -> 7% clean/10% late
• Pummel does more damage: 3.64% -> 4%
• Back aerial does more damage: 13.44% clean/7.84% late -> 15% clean/8.5% late

I kind of stole most of these from the Unofficial Balance Committee... but they have some very nice ideas for how to make Doc a little better. I changed a few things and added some things of my own to give him a larger buff...

For plain old Mario, he's high/top-tier, but it would be nice to have a 1% damage increase in fireballs and a little bit of horizontal distance on the cape. I don't have any good ideas for the name of the patch/mod, but a good name should be simple and capture the essence of what you're doing (in this case, balancing the game).