Sliq is Amazing and so Can You! *Now with Smileypants Bowser Avatar!*

[The_Dyne]

How exactly did you paint you controller?

Because it's awesome.

Illiteracy FTL...

and about both images, I was just a little lazy...

 

[PK-ow!]

Looks like I'll have to get this thread back on track. *cheap kazoo noise*

So how do you execute the "Super sidestep/slidestep"? The technique for Ganon and Pit where you somehow do a sliding pivot out of a sidestep?

I can't get it at all. I mean I read how to do it but is there anything you guys could add?

 

[MiraiGen]

Illiteracy FTL...

and about both images, I was just a little lazy...

Oop. Read that wrong.

I shall make up for it by posting this image:

This is probably going to be my sig eventually.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

****, that is some good ****. I wonder how long it took you t odo all that stuff. I'm oaky with Ganon, but if you have wi-fi hit me up Sliq.

 

[:034:]

Sliq, I think it's time for a rehaul of this thread. I mean, it's awesome and all, but confusing to new Ganon players. If we could make it look like a traditional guide with a moveset overview, killing percentages, approach tips, general playstyle tips etc., it'd look a lot nicer and it'd be easier if you searched for something specific.

Don't be lazy and say 'Shin has a guide like that' because you know it's a bit too old for that.

 

[Blad01]

I've got a few questions about Ganondorf :

- First, when you are in a shield position, what do you do ? I would usually do a Cancelled Dair or a Jab, but... The first one is punishable (by example by a simple UTilt), the second doesn't have anough range sometimes...
Do you roll ?

- Second, when exactly do you use the Flame Choke ? I noticed that it's hard to pull off against great opponents, even after a Down-Throw (by example on Falco, it's pretty hard... And you can't go away / Flame Choke towards opponents, due to his lasers...).

 

[WastingPenguins]

I've got a few questions about Ganondorf :

- First, when you are in a shield position, what do you do ? I would usually do a Cancelled Dair or a Jab, but... The first one is punishable (by example by a simple UTilt), the second doesn't have anough range sometimes...
Do you roll ?

- Second, when exactly do you use the Flame Choke ? I noticed that it's hard to pull off against great opponents, even after a Down-Throw (by example on Falco, it's pretty hard... And you can't go away / Flame Choke towards opponents, due to his lasers...).

Mindgame into flamechokes with a dair or uair (or two) just outside their range. Miss on purpose and start hammering side b.. Works way more often than it should. I almost never, ever flamechoke without a bit of 'setup' like that.

 

[MiraiGen]

I usually attempt to grab but an Uair or Autocancelled Dair works equally as well to set up for a Flame Choke.

Shieldgrab is quick - even if it whiffs it means they're exposed.

 

[Cooper736]

So i've been practicing with the 'dorf a lot lately, and one thing I've found is that I'm starting to lose the ability to Thunderstorm. I can still SH to an autocancel most of the time, but increasingly I'm performing full jumps, which is next to useless when my opponents are at low percents. I use the R button (set to jump) and the c-stick to Thunderstorm, which is the only way I'm able to get the full range of my jumps. Is there any way I can increase my ability to Thunderstorm? If anyone says muscle memory or training I will abuse you verbally, because I've already got that. It just seems like my R button is becoming more sensitive all the time.

I'm not adverse to physical tampering with my controller. Is removing springs good?

 

[MiraiGen]

Yes. Yes yes yes. Removing springs is wonderful. I'm going to mod my controller once I have some time.

Also: How does R-jumping help Thunderstorming? Because I like the concept but it means curbing some bad R-button shielding habits.

 

[Deck Knight]

So i've been practicing with the 'dorf a lot lately, and one thing I've found is that I'm starting to lose the ability to Thunderstorm. I can still SH to an autocancel most of the time, but increasingly I'm performing full jumps, which is next to useless when my opponents are at low percents. I use the R button (set to jump) and the c-stick to Thunderstorm, which is the only way I'm able to get the full range of my jumps. Is there any way I can increase my ability to Thunderstorm? If anyone says muscle memory or training I will abuse you verbally, because I've already got that. It just seems like my R button is becoming more sensitive all the time.

I'm not adverse to physical tampering with my controller. Is removing springs good?

I use Tap Jump simultaneously with C-Stick Down to autocancel Dairs. SH X and Y always fail for some reason, but Tap Jump doesn't. Tap Jump pretty much auto-short hops for you, and then you can follow up with whatever.

 

[Sliq]

If you have problems doing something, then just practice it. Seriously, there isn't any trick to doing **** better besides practicing it. Like, my mind is boggled how you guys can't consistently auto-cancel the dair. It's like easy as ****. The only thing I can think of is that you never played Melee and have no semblance of tech skill.

I'm certain the BEST choice would be to short hop with the control stick and dair with the c stick, since this allows you to DI up in case you get hit during it. The best air control would be jumping with the x or y button and then dairing with the c-stick, allowing the maximun air movement with the control stick.

 

[MiraiGen]

The only problem I have with Autocancelling the Stomp is doing it on the run, because I have Tap To Jump off and when trying to get the timing down I'm trying to avoid Fair on accident or missing the timing up.

I am practicing but it's just a matter of seeing what other options there are out there. Imma go try the Tap Up/C-Down and see if that fixes things.

 

[Magus-Cie]

I dont remember who is was that posted itm but awhile back there was a mini-guide to mindgames on landing the Flame Choke. Since for the last few frames of an upsmash you can cancel into anything, do an upsmash to flamechoke. More often than not if you toss out a few Up smashes every now and then, they will get itchy to punish you and that is when you strike.

A miscellaneous note: People complain that GDorf doesn't use any of his moveset in the game, but they are wrong. He Flame Chokes one of the sages in Twilight Princess...(finally dusted off his copy and is playing for the first time)

 

[Dragmire]

this is usage of iasa frames (interruptaple as soon as) that ganon has in his Up smash and yeah it's a good fakeout move but not sure to abuse it enemies can catch on quick

 

[Sliq]

Sliq, I think it's time for a rehaul of this thread. I mean, it's awesome and all, but confusing to new Ganon players. If we could make it look like a traditional guide with a moveset overview, killing percentages, approach tips, general playstyle tips etc., it'd look a lot nicer and it'd be easier if you searched for something specific.

Don't be lazy and say 'Shin has a guide like that' because you know it's a bit too old for that.

I'll do this when I feel like it, but right now you get what you get. Furthermore, instead of waiting on me to do some more work, why don't you guys test some **** on your own.

 

[Jekyll]

Considering I'm too lazy to look for/post in the Matchup thread...

Ganon's f-tilt breaks through Ike's up+B...I don't know HOW, or WHY...It still doesn't make sense in my head...but it definitely happens.

 

[Sliq]

Considering I'm too lazy to look for/post in the Matchup thread...

Ganon's f-tilt breaks through Ike's up+B...I don't know HOW, or WHY...It still doesn't make sense in my head...but it definitely happens.

Ike doesn't have heavy armor frames once he grabs his sword. From the time you throw the sword until you grab it he has heavy armor. Once he grabs his sword, you can hit him with a well spaced move.

 

[Magus-Cie]

Out of curiosity Sliq, when you tell us to go test something, what do you want us to test exactly?

 

[Jekyll]

Out of curiosity Sliq, when you tell us to go test something, what do you want us to test exactly?

Find something that gives Ganon trouble and find a way to negate it.

Find something that other characters excel through and find a way to negate it.

Find something that Ganon has that's good(ie. murder) and find ways to make it the most broken **** in the game.


On that same note, expect a Murder Choke update later this week.

 

[Levitas]

yo sliq, the murder fist recovery is just a wavebounced or manually bsticked warlock punch, lol. that's where all the momentum comes from.

good stuff dude.

 

[Sliq]

Out of curiosity Sliq, when you tell us to go test something, what do you want us to test exactly?

Well, for one thing, you could test to see if size effects the outcome from the murder choke suicide. Since I posted that video clearly showing the difference in how Ganon holds each character, it is clear that he holds them at different angles and heights, so the results of the Ganoncide could differ dependent on characters.

Also, Jekyll is testing to see if Ganon can instantly dash attack out of the murder choke, which could lead to low percent KO's.

I plan on eventually seeing which characters can be dair chained, and which characters are able to hit Ganon before the second dair. For example, at 0%, Snake can be hit with three dairs to a down tilt, doing 70% (they can escape the down tilt if they tech the third dair). Howeverm MK can nair you before you can land the second dair. So you are better off dairing, then shielding, and punishing MK out of shield.

I've been trying to test ledge canceling aerials, but I have found the Brawl is much less intuitive when it comes to ledge canceling. I was hoping to be able to ledge cancel fair's lag to make it more useable, but so far I have been unsuccessful.

There is a lot of stuff to test.

 

[Dragmire]

I tested murder choke and sadly no it makes no difference in the sucide you both die or if you have disadvantageous controller port only you die

WTF they got rid of the angry smilie

 

[Truthbetold]

One combo I love to abuse is to flame choke then thunder (or murder) punch and finish with a murder kick.
Of course, I haven't tried this on a player yet.
With all the CPU I played against (minus the ones the flame choke to thunder punch doesn't work), the combo either worked beautifully or it brought Ganon in the CPU's face.

Does this work against players?

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet:
If the enemy who can be thunder punched after a flame choke, he can be hit with a crouch and then a kick (is there a simple way for expressing this? ex. dtilt, etc).

 

[Magus-Cie]

Well, for one thing, you could test to see if size effects the outcome from the murder choke suicide. Since I posted that video clearly showing the difference in how Ganon holds each character, it is clear that he holds them at different angles and heights, so the results of the Ganoncide could differ dependent on characters.

Also, Jekyll is testing to see if Ganon can instantly dash attack out of the murder choke, which could lead to low percent KO's.

I plan on eventually seeing which characters can be dair chained, and which characters are able to hit Ganon before the second dair. For example, at 0%, Snake can be hit with three dairs to a down tilt, doing 70% (they can escape the down tilt if they tech the third dair). Howeverm MK can nair you before you can land the second dair. So you are better off dairing, then shielding, and punishing MK out of shield.

I've been trying to test ledge canceling aerials, but I have found the Brawl is much less intuitive when it comes to ledge canceling. I was hoping to be able to ledge cancel fair's lag to make it more useable, but so far I have been unsuccessful.

There is a lot of stuff to test.

Now that is the kind of stuff you should tell us. I personally don't have enough imagination/experience to know what should/should not be tested. If you had a small list of things that you wanted tested, I am sure some of us at least could find the time to do so.

I tested murder choke and sadly no it makes no difference in the sucide you both die or if you have disadvantageous controller port only you die

WTF they got rid of the angry smilie

Ganondorf is the new angry smiley.

 

[Dragmire]

discovering them yourself is what's necessary because it's what no one ever thought of before

but agreed ganondorf is the new angry smilie

 

[Jekyll]

oh ****z...Sliq's got minions to do his bidding...

...I'm moving to canada.

 

[waks]

I just watched some of the vids in the first post Sliq. Mad props to your Gdorf <3

 

[Magus-Cie]

oh ****z...Sliq's got minions to do his bidding...

...I'm moving to canada.

We've always been his minions. He just hasnt been ruling with an Iron Fist like he should have.

 

[Cooper736]

Also, Jekyll is testing to see if Ganon can instantly dash attack out of the murder choke, which could lead to low percent KO's.

After reading this I did some testing, and it is possible to Dashdance (that's what they're calling it now) immediately after dropping your opponent. With proper buffering the DA can come out at roughly the same time as a Dtilt would. However, I'm unable to replicate Ganon's inability to combo the Murder Choke with any of his other moves against other Ganons on my own for some reason, so I can't tell if dash dancing can hit the few characters that 'dorf can't hit otherwise, or if it's just another option. I'll just have to wait for Jekyll's update.

 

[leafgreen386]

They're calling the instant dash attack... dashdancing...? What idiot thought of that genius idea!? So it's not enough to have three pivots, eh? Now we need two dashdances? Great. Where was this, anyway? I cannot believe people are that stupid. Just because it isn't useful in brawl doesn't mean the name isn't already taken. >_>

And yes I'm probably going to c/p the above paragraph with some minor changes once I do find the thread.

 

[Sliq]

No, instant-dash attack will NOT be called dash dancing, and I have yet to hear of anyone refer instant-dash attacking as dash dancing.

 

[MiraiGen]

Dashdancing was in Melee so let's keep it there.

 

[dlen06]

You can still dash-dance with fox. Sorta....

 

[Magus-Cie]

No, instant-dash attack will NOT be called dash dancing, and I have yet to hear of anyone refer instant-dash attacking as dash dancing.

So is it the Murder Dash then Sliq?

 

[Ulevo]

Awesome guide Sliq. I likes. * Subscribes *

 

[PK-ow!]

So I just played a Falcon today and found out that I am absolute moose balls suck with Ganondorf. He was having fun with me. He switched to at least three characters he obviously never uses and still won with a healthy stock, sometimes two.

I've done nothing but read these guides and watch vids - and there's nothing in either I don't know how to do (except the OOS pivot, but no one does that) - and I was just completely limp the whole match.

It didn't help that I Darkly Dove into FD at least once a match, but let's put that aside.

So, then, other than saying "play people more" (because he is my second main and I've been using him thusly frequently), bluh? WTF is wrong with me?

EDIT: It was like. . . I couldn't think. Maybe a nutritional deficiency? (no johns) Because my normal approach to prediction was just... blanking on me. I felt blind to his actions.

Also, how would you guys recommend getting to know characters I haven't seen? If I were to face a Yoshi today it'd be for the first time and I'd probably lose just because I don't know what Yoshi does.

 

[Phazon Warrior]

Its tough to do so without playing against actual people. You could try playing against a computer to get a feel of a certain character's weight, range, and other attributes. However, there is no substitute for a human player.

 

[Jekyll]

Was this your first time playing another player? No, Wi-Fi DOESN'T count... If so, then you've just got a lot of work to do learning how to play the game. I personally don't recommend Ganon as anyone's first smash bros character.

If this isn't your first time around, buck up. Figure out what he was doing that harmed you the most and find a way around it. If you can train yourself to think this way during a match, you'll be fine. If you have to think between matches or between playdates, then you'll probably see slower progress, but it's what has to happen.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

The only time I've truly enjoyed Ganon is because of the absolute dickering you can do with F+B.
On FD when I was ahead by a stock DThrow ->D+B canceled on the edge ->F+B

Amazing.