Sliq is Amazing and so Can You! *Now with Smileypants Bowser Avatar!*

[PK-ow!]

Was this your first time playing another player? No, Wi-Fi DOESN'T count... If so, then you've just got a lot of work to do learning how to play the game. I personally don't recommend Ganon as anyone's first smash bros character.

If this isn't your first time around, buck up. Figure out what he was doing that harmed you the most and find a way around it. If you can train yourself to think this way during a match, you'll be fine. If you have to think between matches or between playdates, then you'll probably see slower progress, but it's what has to happen.

I only play on Wi-fi, and this match was on Wi-fi.

My regional area has converted entirely to Melee tournaments so I can't practice there.

It wasn't so much what he was doing as what I wasn't. I clearly was not threatening him - and it wasn't because he was predicting me either (I think I could tell, from the way he responded to my actions; they weren't exactly perfect). I was a sack of weights.

Thunderstorming didn't seem to be helping.

 

[dlen06]

it just takes practice and time to get used to his weight, learn spacing and ranges, and how to better control them. use practice mode. Wi-fi is usually a little laggy and has a bit of a delay between the time you press a button and the time the moves happen. It's a very short delay but use practice mode so you're used to reacting without the lag.

 

[BlueYoshiPinkShoes]

God Sliq, you're a lifesaver.
My Ganon game is not quite fantastic yet, but it's evolving.
I'd Love a ditto match with you.

 

[PK-ow!]

Okay here's something that's definitely stopping me.

How does Ganon threaten someone, when, after everything you do, there's always enough time for the opponent to just. . . hit you? There's no need for them to shield or dodge, since your jab is slower then some of their tilts, and they aren't gonna grab you except when it's perfect.

Ganon's grab is so short ranged you can't shield grab, and that would only work against some kind of short character's punching jab that didn't have multiple hits anyway. How many of those are there?

So at close range they just poke me around and/or get behind me, and I can't move fast enough to counter what they're doing, even if I know exactly what it is. And I can't do anything except try and get close to them from long range, for which anything that I threaten, is just as risky for me, since a miss equals terrible pain and probably combos.

In other words, there's no tradeoff with risk and reward, because if the opponent just stays calm, there is no risk for him. You can't bait or predict, because he's just going to take whatever time he needs to set you up, unafraid of any moves you could do which would put you into his ****.

So, what I don't understand is, how does, say, Sliq, get his opponent to do anything which allows the exchange of threats to occur? I say Sliq only because he's the best of three Ganon players I've seen in vids since April.

 

[Dragmire]

that's cause he's sliq

but honestly it's shouldn't be a coincidence that people get hit by an attack although nice when it happens. you need to force the strike upon your foe and make great use of your iasa attacks like Usmash Ftilt and Dtilt also Bforward becuase it's great

 

[Jekyll]

Okay here's something that's definitely stopping me.

How does Ganon threaten someone, when, after everything you do, there's always enough time for the opponent to just. . . hit you?

You're probably just doing the wrong things. dair and uair and bair can autocancel. Jab, Dtilt and FTilt punish anyone who tries to punish you for an attack that has no lag(see previous), and if you space Dtilt and Ftilt properly, their range makes up for the small lag afterwards.

There's no need for them to shield or dodge, since your jab is slower then some of their tilts, and they aren't gonna grab you except when it's perfect.

Not sure I understand this one...if they're not shielding or dodging then why aren't you sending them rag-dolling into the blast zone? The worst thing they could do, I think, IS dodge an attack since even Ganon's laggier moves push them out of shieldgrab range(even though they might be able to run from shield and still grab), and Ganon's trademark move connects even when they shield.

Ganon's grab is so short ranged you can't shield grab, and that would only work against some kind of short character's punching jab that didn't have multiple hits anyway. How many of those are there?

Shieldgrabbing? What is this "shield grabbing" you speak of?! If you're constantly unable to connect with shieldgrabs, you should be doing tilts and jabs out of shield. Even >+B from shield isn't bad against SOME characters. If you REALLY want to shieldgrab, you should UP+B out of shield and DI down and towards your opponent, but ONLY if you're sure you're going to connect.

So at close range they just poke me around and/or get behind me, and I can't move fast enough to counter what they're doing, even if I know exactly what it is. And I can't do anything except try and get close to them from long range, for which anything that I threaten, is just as risky for me, since a miss equals terrible pain and probably combos.

Is there any character in specific that's doing this to you? Unlike some characters, Ganon doesn't have a simple solution to this(SideStep->Downsmash ). You've got to control your spacing, punish your opponent's actions and when you can't punish(or you're getting wailed on) get out of harm's way.

In other words, there's no tradeoff with risk and reward, because if the opponent just stays calm, there is no risk for him. You can't bait or predict, because he's just going to take whatever time he needs to set you up, unafraid of any moves you could do which would put you into his ****.

If you KNOW that he's just going to take his time, then you practically know what his actions are going to be. If that's the case you should be planning ahead and connecting with attacks. as for Ganon not being able to bait and predict, perhaps you just need to shift that mentality around. Because of Ganon's poor approach game with most characters and his defensive nature, that's pretty much all Ganon CAN do at times.

So, what I don't understand is, how does, say, [Jekyll ], get his opponent to do anything which allows the exchange of threats to occur? I say [Jekyll ] only because he's the best of many Ganon players I've (never) seen in vids since [Chalupa].

Firstly, I'm flattered that you would ask me personally. Secondly, when I play someone who just tries to run away and camp me, I try to limit the space they have to work with by forcing them near the edge. Then I either poke away at them with dtilts, plan on them trying to escape and punish, or try and time a Murder Choke(if you space it right, and they dodge it, you should be able to just grab the ledge). I mean...there's obviously more to it than that, but that's how I started approaching the situation. As you gain more experience, you'll get better at it and discover new things to do.

 

[Sliq]

If you play Ganon correctly, he can counter everything anyone can do. Up air eats through aerials, over b goes through shielding., well placed tilts can't be punished and can be baited, spot dodging can be punished by predicting and forward smashing or thunderstorming.

Ganon, however, can not really approach effectively. The only time he can and go unpunished is when they are near the edge. Ganon's moves have a lot of knockback when they hit someone's shield, so you can basically do any aerial and push them off of the ledge, preferably dair (since it hits everyone and can AC) or fair, because it hits big and because it should be fresh.

It's really all about being extremely patient and observant when playing Ganon. All you need is one good read and a well place move to end someone's stock. By playing patiently, you control the flow of battle and can force opens to **** up by making them play at your pace. The key is to remember that even when you are behind to remain patient and control the match. You lose if you panic or try to force it. Certain characters allow you to do this, but Ganon does not.

If you are playing someone who spaces all of the time with WOP tactics, or spams projectiles, you just need to get inside their comfort zone. Once you are close enough, they won't be able to Wop because they have no more room, and they won't be able to projectile spam without you being able to punish. Once you get them in this position, you have effectively limited their options. Furthermore, people will be more likely to panic when near the ledge, letting you punish their roll.

Brawl is less about deception and manipulation (Melee Attributes), and more about reducing options and reading your opponents or guessing and appropriately punishing.

 

[Jekyll]

Question I've been meaning to ask Sliq or anyone with experience in the matchup:

How the HELL do you deal with metaknight?
Feel free to be as broad or as specific as you like...All I know is that Metaknights tend to **** up my Christmas.

kthxbai

 

[Sliq]

Question I've been meaning to ask Sliq or anyone with experience in the matchup:

How the HELL do you deal with metaknight?
Feel free to be as broad or as specific as you like...All I know is that Metaknights tend to **** up my Christmas.

kthxbai

Well, GOOD MK's are annoying. Right now, I don't foresee any good strat to counter the gayness that is the Whorenado or shuttle loop glide attack shuttle loop. Against good MK's I plan on going Ike and just countering the predictable ******** semi-broken bull**** he does.

If you are set on going Ganon against MK, the best option for dealing with the Whorenado is to be in the air a lot, because the Whorenado has no priority above it, so you can dair through it, or down b through it. For the shuttle loop, glide attack, shuttle loop, after the shuttle loop, just roll towards MK, and he won't be able to glide attack and hit you, he'll have to glide away and find a place to land safely.

Down smash out of shield can be shielded after you auto-cancel a dair, or depending on their timing, you can dair again, dodging the down smash by jumping and counter with dair. But your best option would be just shielding if you hit their shield. This takes care of down smash and shuttle loop, and sets you up to punish it simply by rolling towards MK, and f tilt or d tilt out of shield after the down smash.

Your best bet is to stay on the stage for edgeguarding MK, and simply dair to the left or right of the shuttle loop and expect the MK to try and hit you with the shuttle loop and not sweet spot the ledge. or Just up tilt and force them to avoid it.

Spam over b against MK, as it leads into everything. Near the ledge and at low percent, use f tilt. Save d tilt for around 130% as it will kill him even with good DI. Or you can always guess their roll and try to score an early KO with an f smash or dair.

MK is ********, and this matchup is tantamount to Bowser vs. Sheik in Melee.

 

[Swoops]

For Meta save DA so you can get the free kill after Gerudo at like 85% on his light ***. I'm not exactly sure, but depending on how the MK is handling his tornado you might be able to get gerudo after they finish. They'll probably be able to spot dodge but you can always mix it up with wizkick.

Against a good MK, getting edgeguarded is probably the biggest pain in my ***. Once I gain control of the pace on the stage I'm fine, but if you get knocked off the ledge you're very close to ****ed. Ganon's recovery is so terrible, so you beter time your airdodging perfectly

 

[MiraiGen]

Christ, my EYES

Reported.

 

[Sliq]

Christ, my EYES

Reported.

lol wut

10lolwuts

 

[Anomilus]

Just dropping in another morsel of info...

Ganon's Dash A CAN go through DDD's Gordos. Happened while I was playing a Lv.9 DDD match. It doesn't cause it to vanish. It just goes through Ganondorf, and Ganondorf doesn't take any damage. I'm assuming the timing is more strict that other projectiles though, but Dash A WILL clash successfully.

 

[Sliq]

I'm a magician, Spencer. A furious magician.

 

[PK-ow!]

Well I treasure the tips. Controlling the pace is something I 'get', but am not really sure how to implement.
EDIT: Yeah why don't you just go ahead and define that for me. Examples, pretty please?

At least I am patient. I pretty much cannot become frustrated. (It's the only valuable physical trait I possess :embarrass). So the 'frustration' which might be coming through in the text is just me transcribing my feelings of placated helplessness. e.g., "Huh. I am getting owned. I wonder how I should change my approach. *BAWWWW* That didn't work. *BAWWW* That didn't work. *BAWWW* that didn't work.
Hmm. I think I should get some help."



I was able to get some improvement by using sidestepping in a new way (also more).
I wish I could play offline. They say Wifi screws fast characters and is okay to slow ones. I'd say is an exception.

Oh hey I don't expect there to be a good answer to this, but I was wondering if there's a counter to the Kirby chain grab against us? fthrow, uair, fthrow, uair - goes 0 to ~32? It's not a big deal, but I seem to be able to DI... just not by enough.

In the Wifi matches where it was done to me, there was also some weird lag that allowed him to get a few more in even when I had enough time to nair or dodge to safety 'cause I couldn't time it.

 

[Sliq]

Well I treasure the tips. Controlling the pace is something I 'get', but am not really sure how to implement.
EDIT: Yeah why don't you just go ahead and define that for me. Examples, pretty please?

At least I am patient. I pretty much cannot become frustrated. (It's the only valuable physical trait I possess :embarrass). So the 'frustration' which might be coming through in the text is just me transcribing my feelings of placated helplessness. e.g., "Huh. I am getting owned. I wonder how I should change my approach. *BAWWWW* That didn't work. *BAWWW* That didn't work. *BAWWW* that didn't work.
Hmm. I think I should get some help."



I was able to get some improvement by using sidestepping in a new way (also more).
I wish I could play offline. They say Wifi screws fast characters and is okay to slow ones. I'd say is an exception.

Oh hey I don't expect there to be a good answer to this, but I was wondering if there's a counter to the Kirby chain grab against us? fthrow, uair, fthrow, uair - goes 0 to ~32? It's not a big deal, but I seem to be able to DI... just not by enough.

In the Wifi matches where it was done to me, there was also some weird lag that allowed him to get a few more in even when I had enough time to nair or dodge to safety 'cause I couldn't time it.

Just get inside his personal space will put you in an uncomfortable zone.

With Ganon, you shouldn't really be approaching so much as standing inside his comfort zone but outside his range. Then, wait for him to make a mistake. Just keep pushing them back until they have no more room.

 

[echos]

Why don't you come up to Critical Hit 4 Sliq i'd like to match Ganons...

 

[Sliq]

Why don't you come up to Critical Hit 4 Sliq i'd like to match Ganons...

Unless it is after August 28th I won't be able to go. I'm in college taking summer classes. With a generous amount of homework.

 

[echos]

it's in September man

EDIT: you play with g-reg? i got a few ganon dittos in with him at CH3 good stuff

 

[Ayaz18]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwMhR_XkxMs

try this tech with Ganon, I found this out this out with Falcon so it may be useful for Ganon also

 

[Dragmire]

no he can't jump that high from the ledge but at least we got muder punch recoveries

 

[Dopey]

sliq is made of secks.

murder kick LOLLLLL ganon is just a murderer

 

[echos]

sliq is made of secks.

murder kick LOLLLLL ganon is just a murderer

Ganon ***** my mother and killed my father....

 

[Omni]

*this is g-reg

i played sliq a few times online back in the day. i still play ganon now and then to keep him somewhat sharp. what a beast!!!

 

[echos]

*this is g-reg

i played sliq a few times online back in the day. i still play ganon now and then to keep him somewhat sharp. what a beast!!!

my ganny is much better then my snake now g-reg i wanna get some dittos in at CH4 sound good?

 

[Omni]

sounds good

 

[Sliq]

I have NEW videos of my Ganon up. Check the Ganon video thread, as well as youtube.com/sliq111

 

[echos]

I have NEW videos of my Ganon up. Check the Ganon video thread, as well as youtube.com/sliq111

I'll do that

 

[Griffard]

Excellent thread, I learned a lot of things I certainly didn't know. I finally got the 360 murder fist recovery down, but it took a lil bit. Keep it up Sliq, you're doing great work!

 

[Zenjamin]

I do hope this wasnt answered in the past 11 threads.

But out of curisoity, why did you make the transfer from Jiggs to Ganon?
They seen about as far apart as you can get. What provoked the transfer?

 

[Sliq]

I do hope this wasnt answered in the past 11 threads.

But out of curisoity, why did you make the transfer from Jiggs to Ganon?
They seen about as far apart as you can get. What provoked the transfer?

Jigglypuff sucks in Brawl, and I liked Ganon. Recently I have been drifting away from Ganon in favor of Bowser, simply because I like playing as Bowser, and he is infinitely better than Ganon.

I dislike Brawl's longer gameplay, so I like a character that can kill.

 

[:034:]

Jiggs in Brawl > Ganon in Brawl.

No johns

 

[Griffard]

Jiggs in Brawl > Ganon in Brawl.

No johns

:0
no wai
10c

 

[:034:]

wai

Spoiler

you lose the game

 

[Devilution]

Today I faced someone with Ganon and **** in their ****.

 

[Griffard]

wai

Spoiler

you lose the game

shiz i just lost the game

Today I faced someone with Ganon and **** in their ****.

very nice. that is, depending on what **** and **** are. Who did they play as?

 

[eyestrain92]

****. Thank you. I always felt like Ganon's footcar would fly right over the bannanas, but wasn't gonna' risk it.

This actually makes me want to pick up Ganon. This thread, not this single discovery.

 

[Griffard]

silly sliq and his turtle fetish. he doesn't even play as the real king of evil anymore

 

[A2ZOMG]

Okay, reeeealy minor discovery.

You might already know that you can autocancel the F-air from a ledge jump, right? Or you didn't, but that isn't the point.

The point is if you do it perfectly, you can IMMEDIATELY get the first hit of the N-air before you hit the ground.

Uses? Well, Just because it looks awesome, and they won't expect it perhaps lol.

 

[TechnoMonster]

Can I throw in that you can stomp a lot of edge wakeups and it will spike the !@#$ out of them?

Mexican Truck (down B) also goes right over landminezes, I dunno if that's in there already.