Legend of Zelda Skyward Sword SPOILERS Thread (SPOILERS I TELL YA)

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Yes my thoughts exactly. Move the pedestal and the holy sword to a logically safer position. Put a seal on the already strong doors and there you go.

Im starting to suspect that the Sheikahs are master sealers.

 

[MuraRengan]

Just to confirm what spire was talking about, Fi did say that Demise looks different for different people.

But I disagree about him looking like Ganondorf.

Cmon. Demise could never be as handsome ad G-dorf.

Has anyone else noticed that ZeldaWiki has exploded with activity? Takes sooooooo long to get on a webpage.

 

[Spire]

Man, I passed out on the floor for a few hours.

For my zeldawiki needs, I've actually been visiting zelda.wikia.com lately. The other Zelda wiki.

But dude, look at Demise. He may be ugly, but he's got the big schnoz, low brow, round ears (that OoT Gdorf had), and his forehead scar is highly reminiscent of Ganondorf's chest scar from TP. White scars mean suggest one has been pierced by a divine artifact... and broke the punishment.

Seeing as how Demise has a scar on his head, it must be implied that the sealed spike/Master Sword was driven through into his head in the past, thus initially sealing him away.

As Demise writhes in pain after defeat, the shadowy wrappings on his chest begin to recede, revealing a smoother, grey-skinned guy beneath. His grey skin is visible in other places on his body, but that notion seemed to indicate (just as he was saying his hatred would return) a more humanistic formation of the beast. It was a visual cue for Ganondorf, no doubt.

lol, I can't look at Demise for too long. He's just too metal.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

When I started the encounter against Demise my mind already went like
"okay how the f am I going to hit that forehead?"

Note that it was in the past where we see Demise, before the sealing spike. One can assume that Hylia inflicted the forehead wound.

 

[Spire]

I can't remember, but was the spike in the ground during Ghirahim's hexing ritual? Or was Zelda lying in its place?

ajds'paijda'pdkasp it's almost time to play Hero Mode so I can get a better grasp on the story.

Edit: My memory just flashed and showed Zelda lying between Ghirahim and the spike. Hylia sealed Demise away in the past.

 

[Anth0ny]

Alright so guys.

Remember when you had to collect the Tadtones for Faron? Well...


Remember these?

Except those were fun to collect.

 

[Spire]

At least it pretty much confirms where the Zora come from.

 

[etecoon]

I don't see it that way. in MM the zora are sea dwelling creatures but in WW they were forced to evolve into flying creatures presumably because they can't live in salt water, I don't think the world of termina can be used to corroborate anything in hyrule.

the marks of the goddesses appearing in this game are definitely weird because otherwise the dominant faith system is the worship of a single goddess, hylia. this means that these symbols were either originally unrelated, or that eventually the people of hyrule actually revert to an antiquated religion which would be pretty unusual(how many people converting to greek mythology these days?). and then, though the name hylia lives on for all the things named for her, hylia being a goddess herself is lost to the ages(they may have intentionally eliminated this from history in order to protect zelda's descendants, which would explain the need for a new faith to take it's place)

 

[Spire]

The Zora evolved into the Rito, bird people that still somewhat resembled them in form. Aside from the Tadtones, I see absolutely nothing in Skyward Sword that might become the Zora. No, not even the Parella. Considering the Zora were a musical people in Termina, it at least makes sense to be based on the Tadtones, or for even the Zora babies to be Tadtones. Where else do you think the devs got the idea to make musical fish notes? It's by far the only evidence in SS that even so much as hints to the fruition of that people.

Or of course, Faron uses her magic to transform the Parella into Zora and the Kikwi into Kokiri. There's no proof she can do that though—such a theory is assumable at best. The Tadtones at least provide a semblance of evidence.

 

[etecoon]

why does there NEED to be evidence in SS for zora's? there are tons of things in the series that aren't touched on in SS

 

[Spire]

There doesn't need to be evidence. There just seemingly is evidence. You want to rebuke this, but you have no means of doing so. There doesn't need to be evidence for anything in SS, but there is. There's the ruins of an ancient Temple of Time. There's evidence that the grassy Hyrule we've known for years and years was once a desert. There's evidence that Death Mountain only obtains that name after the Hylians settle the land and furthermore, there's evidence that they aren't even referred to as Hylians until after the end of the game and furthermore there's evidence they're dubbed as such because they are led and procured by Zelda, who is Hylia. There's evidence that the Hylian Shield predates SS entirely and as such, the red bird on the shield represents more than just Link's Crimson Loftwing. There's evidence that races like the Gorons predate the Zoras, even though we've always held them on the same level since Ocarina of Time. There's evidence that the Temple of Time from TP most likely uses what we now know to be timeshift stones to transport you into the past. There are connections.

What is your point?

 

[etecoon]

burden of evidence doesn't fall on someone trying to prove a negative. and I'm not trying to rebuke anything to begin with, maybe the tadtones do become zora's, I'm just saying it's hardly evidence of such and certainly not "confirmation"

my point would be that many things in the series are ambiguous and likely to never be revealed, and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't understand the people who look for minuscule hints of things and then get angry when you state that these aren't conclusive evidence of anything. reading between the lines can be fun, but I don't see why so many zelda fans get so defensive about it, it's hard to even go to most zelda fansites at this point because of the way people act over theory

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Edit: My memory just flashed and showed Zelda lying between Ghirahim and the spike. Hylia sealed Demise away in the past.

No it's not there in the past.

 

[MuraRengan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uy5PQfezvSY#t=46s

As you can see from here, there is no Sealing Spike in the past; however, Demise is still sealed away without the spike. The spike must've become necessary at some point to hold the seal.

 

[Spire]

burden of evidence doesn't fall on someone trying to prove a negative. and I'm not trying to rebuke anything to begin with, maybe the tadtones do become zora's, I'm just saying it's hardly evidence of such and certainly not "confirmation"

my point would be that many things in the series are ambiguous and likely to never be revealed, and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't understand the people who look for minuscule hints of things and then get angry when you state that these aren't conclusive evidence of anything. reading between the lines can be fun, but I don't see why so many zelda fans get so defensive about it, it's hard to even go to most zelda fansites at this point because of the way people act over theory

I understand. But theorycrafting is built around the unknown. If SS literally explained how the Tadtones would evolve into Zoras, or just provided an entirely different method by which the race arose, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's just that with the absence of the Zoras entirely from SS (could be because we haven't seen all of Hyrule) coupled with the fact that Tadtones appear in this game (a first, and in a retrospective of the whole series, the only other aspect of the games that resemble them are the Zora babies from MM), then it's fair game to craft a theory around. The whole theorycrafting phenomenon is a push and pull of suggestive evidence found in the games, isn't it? This is suggestive evidence and because there really isn't much else that I've recognized as being plausible—based solely on my interpretation of the series—it's the theory I've settled on.

I have no qualms with you, and I was totally skirting around typing a 10 page art history paper last night at times to talk Zelda; my apologies if I came off brash. I was stressing myself out. However, according to the theorycrafting rules, I'm the only one so far who's posted about the possible Zora origins; I'm honestly not satisfied with the theory as it'd be nice to have more evidence, but we don't. Prove me wrong and I'll be happy to refute my claim.

A lot of our knowledge of the series comes from the assumed. Hell, every timeline out there is based on the unknown, and yet people settle with different interpretations.

 

[Teran]

I remember when Miyamoto or Aonuma basically once said that the reason why some things may seem inconsistent in terms of dialogue and story etc in terms of the timeline is because the point of a legend is that it loses its accuracy over time.

Also funny how Fi basically says at the beginning of the game to the Headmaster that word of mouth is the most inaccurate of all ways of passing information, and if you notice, hardly any of the games have elavorate scriptures, they just have people telling you ****.

Just sayin', they don't necessarily all have to line up perfectly.

\o_o/

 

[etecoon]

yeah that's pretty much my take on the series, only the events of the game itself are 100% solid, the prologue and a lot of what you hear from people are oral traditions.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Meh, most of the theorists know that. Doesn't stop us from theorizing : D

 

[Teran]

No they don't because apprently they keep using what people say contradicting what actually happens as a canonical flaw, because to many, everything HAS TO LINE UP PERFECTLY.

 

[Spire]

Meh, most of the theorists know that. Doesn't stop us from theorizing : D

This exactly. I appreciate the series for the reasons Teran stated, but I sometimes like to take myself out of that scope for the sheer fun of theorizing. It's FUN. I never take any of it seriously, but there are certain logical ramifications contingent on recurring aspects that have no base in the core story of the franchise... such as the origin of the Zoras. The only way to possibly explain such things is by use of the imagination. The theorycrafting of Zelda lore stems from the imagination. Without doing so, the lore of the series is just spoonfed. I enjoy playing the games as much as I enjoy imagining why and how certain aspects shared between titles relate.

I find the transcendence of the puzzle structure of the games into the theorizing social medium a rather remarkable characteristic. It brings the community together in unprecedented ways. I'm not looking for some deep, spiritual, hidden truths. It's more or less a recognition game based upon one's ability to extract, comprehend and abstract information for the sake of creating what is ultimately your individual logic of the series. Where people lose themselves is when their questions go unanswered even as the series progresses. That's evidence of a bizarre, uncatered ego. So long as you can accept the games for what they are without trying to discern some illusory altruism on the behalf of the developers, then theorizing can be fun. There's something enjoyable to, "aww man, they confounded my beliefs even further! Oh well, that game was a blast anyways!"

 

[Problem2]

At last! I can join the ranks of those who can (or just choose) to read the spoilers! So yeah, the ending pretty much should erase any doubt in people's mind that the three main characters (Zelda, Link, Ganon) are constantly reincarnated.

 

[LLDL]

Again with the tear collecting?!

 

[Problem2]

So the one thing that bugs me about Skyward Sword is how it so ALMOST perfectly describes the war foretold in the Minish Cap (http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/War_of_the_Bound_Chest), but one thing completely wrong is that in the Minish Cap story, the sword used to seal the evil is the Picori Blade which in that game becomes the Four Sword, meanwhile in Skyward Sword, we all know that it was the Master Sword that demise was sealed in. The Master Sword also remains the Master Sword through out the history of Zelda (unless you count the upgrade you can get in aLttP).

 

[WindMajor]

I need like 7 more gratitude crystals, but I don't know where else to look. :/ Does the boss battles thing give you gratitude crystals?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Something I wrote up with a friend

Ok, so I was walking around Skyloft when I noticed something very interesting. At the very top of the wooden steps near the Knight Academy, right at that little doorway that leads to the Statue of the Goddess, look up at the ceiling. Three of the six symbols of the Sages from Ocarina of Time are there. Now if you go down to the Sealed Grounds and to the doorway leading into the Sealed Temple, look up again. The other three symbols are there.

Now, at the end of Skyward Sword, the island the Goddess Statue is on falls to the ground and covers up the Sealed Grounds, also connecting itself to the Sealed Temple. The symbols of the Sages also end up connecting together. In Ocarina of Time, it is stated that the Sages created the Temple of Time to protect the Triforce from evil. My theory is that the Sealed Temple is the Temple of Time from Ocarina, because of not only the symbols, but the fact that it is where the Triforce once was. When the Goddess Statue falls back down to the Sealed Grounds, the island it's on is where the Triforce it was hidden.

I believe that this means the Sages originally mentioned in Ocarina actually created the Temple of Time before the events of Skyward Sword. Hylia knew that the Triforce was in danger because of Demise and his followers, so she rose the part of the Temple with the Triforce to the sky.

More proof of this theory is the layout of the Sealed Temple. It is VERY similar to the Temple of Time. Look around, you'll see what I mean. Furthermore, the Master Sword even ends up being left in a pedestal behind a large door, which are obviously the Pedestal of Time and the Door of Time, respectively. Not only that, but this also proves that this place eventually becomes the Sacred Grove, and the resting place of the Master Sword in Twilight Princess. The Temple of Time degraded over the years between Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, leading to the crumbled ruins of the Temple of Time in Twilight Princess.

Also, in Skyward Sword Hylia created the Goddess Sword and left it for the Chosen Hero. In Ocarina of Time, the Sages are said to be the ones who created the Master Sword. We all know that the Goddess Sword becomes the Master Sword, so I believe that the Sages also helped to create the Goddess Sword for Hylia to defend against Demise's army before the events of Skyward Sword.

What do you all think?

 

[Opelucid]

In Skyward Sword in Lanaryu Desert where do you find the nodes for the generator?

Nvm I found them

 

[WindMajor]

*Fights boss battles 1-11*

*is finally happy that I got to the last boss after losing stupidly so many times in the past*

*brother walks in the room wanting me to do stuff for him*

*picks "take 3000 rupees" instead of "fight last boss" accidentally while talking to my brother*

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

 

[Holder of the Heel]

So what did you guys think of the seven dungeons, and about the fact that there were only seven?

Before people think I'm bashing the number, I actually loved that it wasn't stuffed full of them, it makes me think of Twilight Princess which had nine, but the last two (without which would obviously only have seven) were very short, easy, basic, and squished together so there was nothing in between them. The fact that the Twilight Realm was one dungeon disappointed me greatly, I was hoping it was going to be a town with some areas to explore. Anyways, I feel like Skyward Sword avoided that by opting without trying to add two, or even exceeding Twilight Princess.

 

[etecoon]

SS has the best collection of dungeons in the series period.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

SS has the best collection of dungeons in the series period.

I kind of felt that way as well, the last one was spectacular (wish it was bigger, wow that would have been confusing xD). I also noticed a decline of Small Keys... The Sandship only had two and the last one had like a single key. I actually hope next time they remove keys entirely, for it is kind of lazy in design (there are two doors, but one you can't go in unless you go get a chest in this other one, 'kay?) or maybe have on dungeon that has a key theme or something. Just spouting ideas~ Wish I could produce video games. D: I think I'd be good!

 

[MuraRengan]

SS has the best collection of dungeons in the series period.

Disagree. Personally, I thought the dungeons were pretty uninteresting. Ancient Cistern and Sky Keep were the only fun ones. Albeit, Sky Keep was geniusly designed, as far as dungeons go, I wasn't impressed. They were the easiest dungeons in the series yet.

I think TP had the best dungeons by a wide margin.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Disagree. Personally, I thought the dungeons were pretty uninteresting. Ancient Cistern and Sky Keep were the only fun ones. Albeit, Sky Keep was geniusly designed, as far as dungeons go, I wasn't impressed. They were the easiest dungeons in the series yet.

I think TP had the best dungeons by a wide margin.

Mind elaborating? Without elucidation we don't have much to think about.

 

[MuraRengan]

Mind elaborating? Without elucidation we don't have much to think about.

Not sure exactly what you want me to elaborate on.

But in general, SS's dungeons were way more linear and figuring them out was WAY TOO EASY even without Fi coming in and immediately telling you what to do.
Prior to SS, I might only finish 1-2 dungeons per day over the span of about 10-12 hours because they were actually difficult. But in SS, it took me about 8 hours to complete 3 dungeons because every puzzle was so goddamn obvious it didn't take me more than 30 seconds to figure out what to do.

The linearity adds to the ease because there's essentially no chance of ever having to go back to solve something, letting you know that the solution to your problem is pretty much always in the room around you.

As far as design goes, I think TP did it the best thematically and practically. Dungeons with great atmosphere and thought-provoking puzzle solving.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Not sure exactly what you want me to elaborate on.

But in general, SS's dungeons were way more linear and figuring them out was WAY TOO EASY even without Fi coming in and immediately telling you what to do.
Prior to SS, I might only finish 1-2 dungeons per day over the span of about 10-12 hours because they were actually difficult. But in SS, it took me about 8 hours to complete 3 dungeons because every puzzle was so goddamn obvious it didn't take me more than 30 seconds to figure out what to do.

The linearity adds to the ease because there's essentially no chance of ever having to go back to solve something, letting you know that the solution to your problem is pretty much always in the room around you.

As far as design goes, I think TP did it the best thematically and practically. Dungeons with great atmosphere and thought-provoking puzzle solving.

Thank you, that is basically what I meant. What I meant was when someone says they feel a certain way, I am 100% sure there is a reason for it, so I was inquiring into what that reason was. But I do understand where you were coming from, these dungeons were very short in nature, just looking at the maps of dungeons within Twilight Princess they all dwarf the Skyward ones in my fancy special guide that I got because it was pretty. o_o The ones in TP also had many floors to explore, whereas most dungeons in SS were quite flat. And although the backstory of Ancient Cistern was cool and the underworld segment was creepy, compared to the history of difficult and complex water dungeons (TP not so much but had much more complexity) this one was quite plain.

I also did note many reused lazy developing where they just put some enemies in large numbers that you had to defeat, and sometimes reused these throughout the game or even in the same dungeon. The hydra things, Lizalfos, Beamos things, and to boot most enemies were just altered version of previously seen ones. So I agree that in all ways these were far more basic. I think my least favorite was the Fire Sanctuary, the whole water flower droplet mechanic did not interest me in the slightest, the digging thing was okay since it was very new but wasn't capitalized much, thus reduced to simplicity.

All in all I agree with what you are saying, except the Fi thing, she only ever popped out to point out something that was right in front of your face, never forcibly saying anything hidden.

I am also tiring of the bosses, not because of easiness, but simply due to how random and meaningless they are to the story. They always show a name to them and title but they are essentially meaningless and is something Link shouldn't and doesn't know. Not saying each boss needs to be crucial to the main plot, but something you hear about or interact with in some manner, direct or indirect, so it isn't so lazy. Like, "OHHHHH!~ TENTALUS THE ABYSSAL LEVIATHAN!?!?! ... Wait, what the **** is that?" Though Tentalus or whatever was interesting because of the preface to the fight where it attacked the ship, but that was so little and not suspenseful at all, not to mention, the battle was completely random. Had nothing to do with anything. Just more ideas I'm spouting off though.

 

[kinghippo99]

Edit: Doopy doo. I'm ******** nevermind.

 

[Spire]

The Sand Ship and Tentalus were a big joke. He resembled a hybrid of the Cyclops, Medusa, and the Kraken in Monsters Inc. form. They had an opportunity to make a great classically mythological creature, and yet they made the most cartoonish boss the series has seen thus far. Couple that with the fact that it's by far one of the largest bosses and there's absolutely no way to take it seriously. It's a fun fight, but sheesh it felt like a step out of the immersion of everything else the game offered up to that point. Aesthetically everything was sound, but what the hell Tentalus

 

[WindMajor]

I don't really know if you're talking about all Zelda games or just Skyward Sword in that last paragraph.

Edit: Grrr double ninja.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Tentalus' face was the only thing that was wrong.


But overall, I agree that the bosses are irrelevant. That doesn't make them bad though. I thoroughly enjoyed every boss fight. YES, even the scorpion.

 

[etecoon]

did I just read someone calling TP's dungeon design "thought provoking"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35TbGjt-weA

 

[MuraRengan]

Well, it was. Surely, you don't think SS's dungeons provoked more thought. They were a joke entirely.


And Spire I feel the same way about Tentalus. One of my friends who's not a big Zelda fan came in the room while I was fighting it and he made fun of how silly Tentalus looked the whole time. Not one of the best bosses.