SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess

[Alus]

^^^

Is it just me or is this guy amazing?


never noticed him until now...

You don't play a lot of Pikachu's in Ohio do you?

No I have not....

And just about a hour after posting that i now have a guess why...

 

[Aurasmash14]

really long and informative post.
.

*applauds* great post.

 

[HyperEnergy]

Well, I don't have much to contribute to this matchup, but I will say stage strike/avoid Smashville if possible. Aside from obviously making it easier for Pika to camp, it helps his recovery; especially at higher percents.

If Pika DIs our kill moves correctly, he can start charging a skull bash from up high and release it below the stage. This gets him far enough to be able to grab either ledge of Smashville.

Smashville makes Pika live longer basically.

 

[phi1ny3]

RJ does shine in his moments.

 

[iRJi]

=]. Lol. ^_^

 

[Timbers]

^^^

Is it just me or is this guy amazing?


never noticed him until now...

RJ has always been a respectful poster.

Well, I don't have much to contribute to this matchup, but I will say stage strike/avoid Smashville if possible. Aside from obviously making it easier for Pika to camp, it helps his recovery; especially at higher percents.

I don't think smashville gives Pika anything special to work with. Final D gives him more opportunity to thundercamp against characters with weak longrange games and encourages thundergimps, and battlefield increases his combo potential and recovery options a lot. Also lower ceiling doesn't hurt. Smashville pretty much gives Luc a much needed platform to avoid the thunderjolts until reaching higher percents. Pika definitely isn't bad here, but it's definitely one stage I'd like to play Pika on when starting a match.

 

[phi1ny3]

I think around in the 50% area is when our AS starts to eat up t-jolt instead of being cancelled.

 

[Timbers]

depends on size, but a good rule of thumb I keep is to basically wait until 70-80% before I try camping.

 

[Aurasmash14]

does YI work against pika?

 

[Alus]

YI = yoshi's island?

I wouldnt imagine that it would work any more well vs pika...

 

[hough123]

From reading Pikachu's match-up thread, I was able to pull out some helpful tidbits:

Pikachu has to do lots of damage before he can kill at all. Our aura boost abuses this immensely.

To avoid our AS, Pikachus will Pshield, if we throw another one, they jump. We could abuse this by throwing an AS ABOVE him, then punish him if he is smart enough to stay under it.

Keep Pikachu in the air whenever possible, our air game>his. We beat Pikachu in everything but our Uair, which he will punish us with Fair or Dair.

Pikachu’s ground game>our’s. They WILL use their Tjolt, so be prepared. DO NOT ROLL BEHIND PIKACHU, his Dsmash will rip you apart. Both of these will be used to attemt to aggravate you, which is not good for Lucarios as we cannot lose our cool for even a second.

To kill us, Pikachus will use either thunder or nair in the air, fsmash is added to this list when on the ground.

When using your fair, there are two different scenarios. On the ground and in the air. Now lucario beat pika in the air. So, fighting in the air is going to take some conditioning and some mind games. In the air, shieldpoke with the fair. Now, this is where the conditioning comes in. Start out with doing a FJ fair. Do not use your second jump until you have conditioned your opponent into thinking that you always use your first jump to shield poke at him. Then, when you are absolutely sure that you have conditioned your opponent, FH at them then DI away and use your double jump>fair after your opponent has either used an attack or landed.

^This is a common strategy taken from Pikachu’s match-up thread.

 

[hough123]

YI = yoshi's island?

I wouldnt imagine that it would work any more well vs pika...

It does provide an exellent platform for Luc's aerial game, our main strat against Pikachu. You could also break the mid-section of the stage to break up his Tjolt spamming. He'd have to either wait (and let us charge an AS), approach, or get on the platform on either side and risk us starting a fight in the air by attacking from under him.

I believe that Weegee's Mansion and Rainbow Cruise would work well against Pika. Weegee's for no thunder, and a potential opportunity to start an air battle from the platform in the middle. When the mansion breaks down, Pikachu can freely thunder and Tjolt spam, and his ground game becomes easier to initiate.

Rainbow Cruise is great, it destroys the potential of a ground game 3/4 of the time. Also, there are many platforms to absorb thunder (and possibly tjolt), so killing becomes tough for Pikachu. The area above the ship, and the ship both alow for a grounded fight, so be weary.


EDIT: After some battles as Pika against a Lv.7 Lucario, I won due to CPU retartedness. In the match, I found that I wanted to jump away from Lucario in the rare times the CPU decided he would own me. He should have followed with fair to nair to whatever, but CPUs are just awesome like that. :D But I digress. YI allows yo to avoid Tjolt spam by getting on the platform. (We have nothing to fear due to the epicness that is Dair ^.^) Overall a good stage for Luc IMO.

 

[G-Beast]

i just remembered something.... fully charged AS>QAC

 

[iRJi]

To Hough123: Don't double post, its impolite =].

Also stage counters are Lylat, Yoshi's, Castle siege. Normally I counter on Castle.

 

[hough123]

To Hough123: Don't double post, its impolite =].

Also stage counters are Lylat, Yoshi's, Castle siege. Normally I counter on Castle.

I know, but two seperate subjects needed two different posts =)

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

If you get caught in Pikachu's Dsmash try DIing out and punish.

The main thing that makes Pikachu's ground game good is his speed. We outrange him, but he can get in on us very easily.

In the air we have a much easier time, he lacks the range and mobility to fight us with much up there.

His Tjolt is a nice projectile, if you try going into a camp war with him, it's just make the fight spammy until you hit higher percentages when Lucario's Aura sphere beat out his Tjolt.

If your above him and hear that terrifying, "PIKA!" then move fast and avoid the incoming thunder from above. Lucario is floaty enough to avoid it in the air.

On a positive note, Pikachu can't Dthrow or Fthrow chain grab us, or at least enough to make it matter. So there's another ******** chain grab we avoid.

RJ is right on the stages, go to Lylat, Yoshi's, Castle siege.

I'm saying 50:50, we may be good in the air and we won't die for a while, but Pikachu is still fast as hell and has a good ground game.

 

[phi1ny3]

Lots of nice little things that pika has are shut down by lucario, that's why I'd give it 55:45 lucario's advantage. Still, he's got a really nice ground game that's been aforementioned, and some nice edgeguarding capabilities.
Is it just me, or has pika's fsmash seemed less and less useful/used as the months have gone, and it just seems so laggy?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Lots of nice little things that pika has are shut down by lucario, that's why I'd give it 55:45 lucario's advantage. Still, he's got a really nice ground game that's been aforementioned, and some nice edgeguarding capabilities.
Is it just me, or has pika's fsmash seemed less and less useful/used as the months have gone, and it just seems so laggy?

Kind of like how our Fsmash is less useful than what it appeared to be at first.

 

[phi1ny3]

Yes, except I mean like I see it hit very, very rarely (at least we have IASA frames so that when they rush we can usually go Kapow! with a jab or something). Yeah, our pokemon friend has been rising while we've been kind of lol'd.

 

[Timbers]

To Hough123: Don't double post, its impolite =].

Also stage counters are Lylat, Yoshi's, Castle siege. Normally I counter on Castle.

Yoshi's sucks a lot of **** lol. Pikachu is so hard to hit if he's in the lower parts of the slants.

I don't really know any good counterpicks on Pika. He does well on Final D and Battlefield though.

 

[Browny]

japes seems like a good idea... lol
almost completely negate the chance of a thunder KO, since the thundercloud doesnt even reach near the top of the screen, you would have to be above about 120 for it to KO, once you get higher, a usmash/utilt/dsmash would send you above the cloud, where it might take like 170 to outright KO

 

[Timbers]

does it really send you above the thundercloud before Pika can thunder?

If so that's pretty impressive. Luc gets pretty harassed with being floaty and having mediocre movement. If Japes does what you say it does I might consider it, even though it promotes thunderjolt camping a lot.

 

[Browny]

well, assuming you DI the attack, pika is going to have to chase you and thunder. with no di i would expect pika can thunder you immediately. either way it should help in not dying to that combo lol, but idk how pika fares for the remainder of the match on japes :/

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Yoshi's sucks a lot of **** lol. Pikachu is so hard to hit if he's in the lower parts of the slants.

I haven't had this problem, oddly enough.

In the air, as long as you are careful of how you dedicate your movement you should be able to avoid a thunder if he tries to edge guard with it.

 

[Aurasmash14]

Kind of like how our Fsmash is less useful than what it appeared to be at first.

our fsmash still has the range and IASA frames. pika's fsmash on the other hand is just for spacing.

 

[Alus]

Lylat

Lylat

Lylat

Wait...
what?
huh...?
how?
why?
I dont even...
WTF!?

EDIT: nevermind...figured it out...

 

[G-Beast]

it would appear that i am the only one who thinks it's either 60:40 or 65:35 for Lucario =/
shame...

 

[Timbers]

I haven't had this problem, oddly enough.

In the air, as long as you are careful of how you dedicate your movement you should be able to avoid a thunder if he tries to edge guard with it.

Thunder edgeguard is never a problem for Lucario. Just dair stall accordingly and pass through when it's safe (don't get naired while stalling)

it would appear that i am the only one who thinks it's either 60:40 or 65:35 for Lucario =/
shame...

I think it's Lucs favor, but I'm not sure what numbers to put on it. It's not 65:35 but 60:40 or 55:45 is accurate.

 

[phi1ny3]

60:40 or 55:45 seem accurate.

 

[iRJi]

55:45 is the accurate number in my opinion.

 

[hough123]

55:45 is the accurate number in my opinion.

Or we could be weird like the Olimar boards and make it 57:43.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Or we could be weird like the Olimar boards and make it 57:43.

I have enough problems with setting between 5 point differences, we don't need weird stuff like that.

 

[FatJackieChan]

Put the percents on the front page, that way we don't have to constantly scan through pages for info.

 

[Aurasmash14]

the pikas agree its 55-45.

 

[G-Beast]

a specs Aura Sphere from a Modest Lucario OHKOs max HP and max sp def pikachu with a + nature.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

:flame:
Let the Records show that Pikachu can be hit hanging from the edge of Final Destination using Aura Sphere, depending on the percents and situation. We already know that the little rat edgehogs better than us, can chaingrab a bit, feels a little easier to kill from the top of the screen than the sides, and it feels like stages with taller cellings are better to have a better chance of surviving Thunder. Atleast this is how I feel about the situation.

But Pikachu is the least of Lucario's problems. 55-45 Lucario. I'd much rather talk about someone like Wolf, who's an actual threat. Can we do him some time after this match up gets taken care of? This match up might not have ended yet, but I still hate how much of a danger Wolf is, and am surprized no one made an attempt at bring him up yet.
:flame:

 

[D. Disciple]

let him fall with fairs once he's off the stage and there you go.

 

[Degyn Sefer]

but about how far out is the question cause you still want to send him out rather low and far but you also don't want to die in the process

 

[G-Beast]

pika is KOed by our bthrow and a pleasently low %, being a light weight

 

[iRJi]

pika is KOed by our bthrow and a pleasently low %, being a light weight

Bthrow should never really kill. If someone gets killed by it at early %'s thats because someone is not DI'ing in the right direction.