SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess

[Melomaniacal]

Hate to do this, but I vote Pikachu.
Pretty much the best of those three characters.

 

[Purple]

lol at three way split.

 

[Popertop]

pit and pika are easy, toon link would give lucario the most trouble ( a good toon link, don't say he won't if you think that you've only played trashy ones)

 

[Melomaniacal]

I sat behind Jash while he was playing once, does that count?

 

[phi1ny3]

I add my vote to TL. Pika has the most potential in recent metagame, but a good TL is arguably our hardest of the three.

 

[Aurasmash14]

i vote toon link.

 

[HyperEnergy]

I guess my vote will go to TL as well.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

We're going to see more Pikachu's in tournaments, people figured out how his chain grabs work and people are going to try and play him to get ridiculous damage on Falco, Snake, DDD, MK, and many others.

I vote Pikachu.

 

[Alus]

toon link is sooo boring...

Pikachu.

 

[Purple]

5 - tlink 3-pikachu 1-pit

out of curiosity how long will this vote last?

 

[Mewter]

I give my vote to Pikachu, because he's too cool (not as cool as Lucario, though).

 

[hichez50]

lets go pikachu. We havn't done any of the pokemon yet anyway.

 

[Zucco]

I vote for pikachu

 

[_Nives_]

Toon link give me some trouble so TL

 

[Purple]

I would think it's best to look for tl first considering toon link is much more common than either pit or pikachu.

6- tlink 6-pikachu 1-pit

 

[phi1ny3]

Actually, Pika's becoming more outrageous, considering there's scary Anther as his poster boy and with his metagame only getting better with solid stuff vs. falco, snake, and d3.
Actually, since there's been a recent pika coming into the OR smash scene, I think I'll switch my vote to pika, he's got some annoying stuff.

 

[Mewter]

Actually, Pika's becoming more outrageous, considering there's scary Anther as his poster boy and with his metagame only getting better with solid stuff vs. falco, snake, and d3.
Actually, since there's been a recent pika coming into the OR smash scene, I think I'll switch my vote to pika, he's got some annoying stuff.

Haha. That would make Pika- 7, TL- 5, Pit- 1
Yeah, I would love to discuss ways to get around Pikachu. He/she/it outmaneuvers Lucario far too easily.

 

[Popertop]

*le big sigh*

 

[Alus]

I would think it's best to look for tl first considering toon link is much more common than either pit or pikachu.

6- tlink 6-pikachu 1-pit

Where the hell do you live?

 

[Aurasmash14]

Haha. That would make Pika- 7, TL- 5, Pit- 1
Yeah, I would love to discuss ways to get around Pikachu. He/she/it outmaneuvers Lucario far too easily.

look at the pika's tail mewter. it's a boy. yeah i guess i'll switch my vote to pika as well, considering I got beat by one today.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Psh, I voted for Pikachu before it was cool.

 

[culexus・wau]

I vote Pikachu because it's harder to learn the Pika match-up compared to the TL match-up it seems :<

Also Pikachu has goggles :<

 

[Purple]

Where the hell do you live?

ga. four tlinks, one pika who happens to actually main lucario.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Also Pikachu has goggles :<

This plus bandana makes an awesome Pikachu.

I also think Pika's metagame has advanced more than the other two.

 

[culexus・wau]

This plus bandana makes an awesome Pikachu.

I also think Pika's metagame has advanced more than the other two.

We took bandanna, it's impossible to take the goggles

Pika also has a lot of ******** stuff we have to deal with :<
If we're ever forced to use ES it can get really tough offstage and Pikachu is able to control the momentum of the match better then we can imo <.<

Pikachus are on the rise as well as previously stated, on the off chance MK DOES get banned Pika will skyrocket in usage too which further strengthens why we should discuss him.

 

[D. Disciple]

Discuss Pikachu

 

[Aurasmash14]

that makes 10 for pika.

 

[Rayku]

I remember that a while ago, I simply suggested Falco and we went with it with hardly an opposition. now we need over 15 votes just to get the next one going? Way to get **** done, as said in the title.

I only know stuff about the ROB matchup, and I contributed. I know nothing else. I wing all my matches.

Pikachu has thunderjolt. No Wallcling for us.

 

[Aurasmash14]

come on timbers, he's right lets move along with pika already!

 

[Timbers]

Having you guys vote on characters is just a clever way for me to be lazy for a few more days.

(also I was pretty busy this weekend don't hate)


Pika is a go

 

[Browny]

dont be intimidated by his recovery, its not THAT amazing.

most pikas will simply use an uncharged skull bash -> mid air jump -> quick attack if required to recover. A full charge aura sphere negates the option to skull bash which leaves pika pretty much no option but to use his upb. As long as you keep the dair hitbox over the ledge, you can hit him out of his upb, hes not invincible or anything.

Granted its not easy at all to do this, but I see a lot of talk about how pika has a god-tier recovery and he is ungimpable. well not everyone in the cast has an enormous projectile which KO's on contact and a long lasting, massive hitbox attack you can safely use over the ledge with no risk of falling below the stage etc.

 

[D. Disciple]

Also people saying that pikachu has a god like recovery, don't really know all of Pikachu's exploit.

Also if you time it right, you can knock pikachu out of his up-b to the edge with Lucario's dtilt.

You can harass his recovery a bit as well. If you're fast enough and know when he's going to skull bash to mid jump, you can carry him back with fairs, even a falling/rising bair.

My favorite thing to do, is to get him with uairs. Especially when Lucario is at high percents.

Don't be afraid to get close to Pikachu either. If he goes airborne he's most likely going to spam jolts, or attempt to quack-uair-nair. If you trot up towards him, interfere with him as much as you can. Harass with utilts when he's above you. If he lands and he's right by you, dont' attempt a grab it's going to get spot dodged, start up with jabs, then pop him back up in the air and unleash some aerials on him. Even though Lucario's damage output is ****, so is Pikachu's but he's got speed on his side to rack up damage on you.

I even find using your tilts, and when you can grab him, fthrow/bthrow work wonders as well.

 

[G-Beast]

What moves or tactics should we watch out for? fsmash, jab, QAC. thats all i really worry about. fighting pikachu on the ground is a lot harder then fighting him in the air, most of his ground attacks are faster then ours, but dont be afraid of using Fsmash(which i personally think is awesome in this matchup)

What moves or tactics should we try to enforce in this match up? Aura Sphere is awesome in this matchup, it beats almost all of pikachu's attacks. getting pikachu into the air is what should be aimed for since we beat him there more then on the ground, dthrow and dtilt(at higher %'s). at low %s pikachu is very vulnerable to aerial combo's(as are most, if not all, characters) such as FP->fair->nair etc

Do you feel Lucario has an advantage in any particular scenario of this matchup? i believe that our air and projectile game is far superior to Pikachus, range and power is on our side, and we are not vulnerable to any of his CGs. i personally find approaching pikachu is not that difficult, either.
if you play right, you can easily find yourself living to high %s which means lots o' aura for us.


Do you feel the opponent can shut down aspects of Lucario's game? i think that we beat pikachu's air game. oh yeah, BAS>pika's neutral B and AS>almost all of pika's attacks.

Counterpicks? What to avoid and what to enforce?

i suck for stages... i always pick what i feel like unless i know (insert character here) does bad there/we do better there xD

overall i feel this is a 65:35 advantage for Lucario, 60:40 at worst

 

[SilverSpark]

Ban Brinstar if you're fighting Pikachu since we have excellent mobility on that stage, and since you guys like to live long, the acid will help us take your stock out more easily.

Some Lucarios like to spam aura sphere from afar, so I use QAC to get in their face quickly, or run - shield to approach. I usually spam projectiles until I find an opening, then rush in try and get lucario into the air for some easy %.

 

[Timbers]

Pika's recovery is good, there's no reason to undermine it and it's probably the second best in this game. Whether you agree or not, it's still difficult to do anything to Pika's recovery. It's by no means predictable and with a lagless ending he can uB from pretty much anywhere and make it back safely and untouched. Expecting him to jump to the ledge everytime is naive.

Biggest thing in this match is probably trying to get out of the habit of momentum cancelling as soon as you're knocked into the air. You need to be totally lagless while airborne to avoid thundergimps. Watch Pikachu super closely, always make sure you can hear the TV too lol.

 

[Alus]

I really don't understand why pika would use skull bash when recovering... unless he is very very high in the air...

 

[D. Disciple]

You don't play a lot of Pikachu's in Ohio do you?

 

[phi1ny3]

Pika's recovery is good, there's no reason to undermine it and it's probably the second best in this game. Whether you agree or not, it's still difficult to do anything to Pika's recovery. It's by no means predictable and with a lagless ending he can uB from pretty much anywhere and make it back safely and untouched. Expecting him to jump to the ledge everytime is naive.

Biggest thing in this match is probably trying to get out of the habit of momentum cancelling as soon as you're knocked into the air. You need to be totally lagless while airborne to avoid thundergimps. Watch Pikachu super closely, always make sure you can hear the TV too lol.

I agree, but his QAC is more gimmick than anything truly strong at high levels of play, you just have to watch out for it.
Also imo (and I think a lot of others) say that G&W's is second best. Pika's is pretty good though.

 

[Timbers]

the fact that QAC allows him to cancel all his ending lag on recovery is what makes it good. It's not that amazing if you're using it for offensive purposes I think.

GaW is pretty easy to ledgehog his uB and then punish his vulnerability once he misses sweetspot.

 

[iRJi]

First off Pika's QAC is decent for offense, but not to rush into your opponent. Its more of a good approach just to get close. Also keep in mind that Pika has a animation lag after the QAC. It sends him into a 2nd jump and if he lands you can abuse the little time that he hits the floor. He can't cancel the lag unless he goes into the ledge since he has no moves that auto cancel on landing. And before anyone says anything about it, test it, because I am pretty sure that its a true statement.

Now for some extra stuffs. Pikachu will camp Lucario until there is an opening. If my memory serves correctly **I think** Fair cancels his T jolt's. But that's something you might want to test also. The one thing Pikachu has over Lucario is that he is a faster character. Pikachu can get around you pretty fast, but not that easy. There is no chain grab on Lucario for starters, and that is always a plus, so for the most part pikachu loses a great gimmick and has to fight your straight out. Pikachu's love to chain their Uairs together, for most character's its a free 10 dmg, also luckly for Lucario our dair is better then his U air, if you see a Pikachu approach you close in the air just Dair him. If a Pika player Dsmashes, Hold up and also smash DI up, it is possible to DI out of his Dsmash. The floatier the character the easier it is to do it also, and lucario is an easy person to get out of the Dsmash. Your Fsmash Out range's his, but his is a lot faster then Lucario's. The best way to Punish him if he misses is just to use an AS. One of pikachu's favorite options of of shield is his Nair, and he will attempt it if he gets a perfect shield off, not to mention it kills. That option is unavoidable unless its Fsmash, and it has to be at the tip of Lucarios fsmash to be able to react with shield in order to dodge. If a pikachu player knows that he can easily just grab, so the best option is just to Roll dodge. Upsmash kill Lucario around 120 ish ~, Nair around 130 i believe.

On recover Pikachu will try to Skull bash first if hes near the dead line, and then try to recover with his UP B. Pikachu's fastest attacks is his Uair, so he will be using that for SDI input. Pikachu can live up to decent percents against lucario also, so be cautious of that.

The one thing to remember about this match up is that he has Thunder. Also known as T1 and T2. T1 is the thunder itself and is classified as the first stage, while T2 is the thunder hitting Pikachu, classified as the 2nd stage. It makes a excellent edge guard, and an amazing kill move. You need to remember not to air dodge unnecessarily If a Pikachu sends you up and he sees it, he will punish and it will kill you x_x. His T1 and his T2 have different Frames. T1 is faster and ends faster then T2, but T2 has Invincibility frame's on startup. Just keep that in mind.

Overall the matchup is hmm... 45/55 Lucario's favor?
That seems accurate for this.