SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess

[culexus・wau]

my tldr post shall come later

my favorite mu in the entire game, so fun.

as for now on piece of advice for approaching.

Dash in Aurasphere is your best approach.

once you're right in grab/fsmash range from dash, AURASPHERE.

from here its a guessing game.

Shield/Roll/Jump Airdodge/Double Team beats fsmashes

Shoot Sphere [lose this option if pikmin are on you], Sidestep, Roll, Jump Airdodge and Double Team [only when pikmin are you] beat Grab.

Shield beats random ftilt/dtilt/dash attack LOL.

read his other escape options.

if they pivot grab they'll lose space.

any time during the ASC you can shield cancel jump into aerials too [2 frame shield + 6 frame jump so itll be slightly slower].

if jump-in'd late nair is safe on olimar's shield and its a 50/50 between smashes/grabs from olimar's response if he wants to punish.

Jabs **** OLIMAR.

holy **** if you have the option select **** down you can **** him even if he jabs/rolls/jumps away airdodges your held jabs, sooo goood.

Other Misc. Tips:

FCAS and undercharged goes under Yellow Pikmin toss, pay attention to that line~

Fsmash outranges purple fsmash/grab.

Yellow hitboxes are actually super **** and can be bigger then ours sometimes.

Fsmash/Aurasphere/Double Team beats ledge-uairs from olimar. Riverdance dair MIGHT trade but I've never tried it

more to come later.

 

[phi1ny3]

Okay, I finally got some Olimar experience from playing this BC Olimar named asadelta (namesearch sucka), FWK's advice was pretty legit.

Always mix up your approaches, or else you're going to get pivot grab ***** so easily.

It's somewhat easy to make Olimar pinned near the ledge while onstage, use that advantage well.

Make damage when you can, **** when you can.

I have almost never been hit by Olimar's upB in terms of it being used as an attack, and usually when they do that I get some free hits in. Just because AS goes out with one pikmin doesn't mean it's useless. I've especially used it as a purple killer several times because my playstyle naturally makes more purples unfortunately, because of how much I fair off all the others and charge AS while jumping around. Learning to use nair is big here, lots of people forget Olimar needs whiffs/outspacing because his shield's options aren't spectacular. Jabs are really good against Olimar, AS goes under yellows always and most SH pikmin tosses iirc.

Speaking of yellows, they have wacky range, but don't seem to kill well at all lol.

SDI out of nair ASAP, because what comes next is going to hurt... a lot

never underestimate usmash's range. Most importantly, do not roll predictably, dsmash will definitely nail you since it covers tons of area that isn't in the air.

Avoid Halberd, bad bad stage against Olimar.

Olimar's whistle didn't seem to be a large problem for me (maybe I was lucky, idk), although his general camp game and punishes were scary, I kinda worked on avoiding hitting olimar when he whistles near the ground, because that's when he can pull a smash out at times when you hit him.

 

[Steam]

basically everything they covered.

we also have good CP options vs. Olimar. Japes and Frigate can both be amazing. Japes because of the sky high ceiling and water ****** his recovery. Easier for him to run away though. First stage of frigate is pretty amazing. It's cramped which is good plus the right side of the stage ***** his recovery hard. 2nd stage isn't so good, platforms save his recovery but the dip can mess with his carrot tossing.

Brinstar is okay also mainly because it's so cramped and allows you to abuse Oli's blindspots a little better. Though the ceiling is low and lava can save his recovery.

rainbow cruise sounds good on paper but the only good oli I've played is Fino so yeah IDK how good RC is for us. :/

 

[culexus・wau]

Random misc tips (postan from phone)

Generally, don't get greedy for hard reads vs grounded olimar. The **** will come if you wait for it, uptilts and dash attack are to-go punishers for the most part. Dash grabs **** too

Until he's kill %, focus on relaunching him into the air as much as possible

Don't always give chase w/ fair/upairs, clutch dair from olimar (fast and hard to react from the startup)

Learn his smash charge animations, I hear complaints that all his moves look the same, but there are subtle differences.

Nair has a surpringly huge hitbox. Space fairs right.

Sdi falling nair upsmash, we can interupt w/ dair or dodge with footstool airdodge

Learn the angles where he can recover safely and where he needs to jump airdodge or uair or whistle to recover. If you can get to the area he needs to be faster and fair you usually get a gimp

 

[culexus・wau]

Dbl post bcuz char limit.

If you're laaaaaazy, and don't wanna time invulnerable frames on the ledge, hold up vs olimar upb if that's his last option,

You won't get stagespiked, and if you're amazing like me you can walltech jump.

Time your ledge regrabs so you're invulnerable when he throws fsmash out.

Olimar can actually airdodge or attack before the whistle visual effect rainbow thing, disappears. There's still a window to hit him in-between tho.

Sdi nair or dair generally the opposite of where he's moving, if he's movie g right, sdi left. If he's falling, go up etc.

On rising olimar upair, I've been able to sdi it down and hit olimar after ( with a ****ed up wrist). Try it and see.

Sdi up to double team the obvious second oli uair is a good escape option high above.

Risked when closer to the ground because if he whiffs he can land slight Charge upsmash. High above the best he can get is fair/Bair or upb


Coming soon, in depth approaching olimar, in depth juggling olimar and in depth ****** olimar from jab.

Oh and in depth ****** olimar offstage to oro.

Oh and

Rich brown is rich (bait bait bait)

 

[Kitamerby]

FlameWaveK (5:55:29 PM): make a troll post in the MU discussion thread
FlameWaveK (5:55:43 PM): I wanna post again w/out dbl posting

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I've played this match-up dumb in the past when I get pivot grabbed a lot by smarter Olimar's. Like people said, you need to mix-up your approaches or he will punish it with Usmash, grab, Dsmash, or any other nasty surprises.

Getting pikmen off I use Utilt, Nair, or Uair, the last one is a eh but it does cover Lucario's whole body. Once you get up close, like Flamey said, jabs, his options up close rather than when he can space are more limited. If we get him in the air we do better, but it's still not easy, Olimar's whistle can surprise you if your not careful.

His Nair is really homo if you don't SDI it correctly, he has legit follow-ups if you don't, like his Usmash.

Watch the line-up, you can make good responses and reads if you see what is coming and know what pikmen he will use. Pikmen throw is fine if you knock them off, but be careful of purples they will knock you away if they hit, and they also live longer than the other pikmen, they take more % before they die.

Offstage edgehog, but you need to get the timing down with invincibility frames or his UpB will knock you off, might stage spike in some cases.

I'll think of more later.

 

[Steam]

just be ready to tech his upB really... if he hits you with pikmin chain it won't grab the ledge.

 

[Braxton2011]

Ftilt the best you ever had.

 

[culexus・wau]

godamnit guys I told you all you need to do is hold up.

that way you don't die when you get stagespiked.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

godamnit guys I told you all you need to do is hold up.

that way you don't die when you get stagespiked.

I'm going to note this.

 

[Browny]

People should investigate Lucario's GRCG on Ness imo. I tested it a bit last year and it was devastating... so many regrabs across the stage. It was very difficult though, if people can master it and grab Ness regularly enough, that MU is going to switch a bit...

Also, I should be able to get some offline vids vs a good oli main here on wednesday with lots of friendlies so hopefully I can upload good ones

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I do it on Ness and Lucas, Lucario gets a lot of regrabs on them.

 

[culexus・wau]

I do it on ness and lucas but its hard grabbing either of them in the 1st place

its nothing game changing at all but its still noteworthy if we get a grab across the stage at high %

refreshes all of our moves easy though.

don't try to to force the grab however.

that will get you *****.

 

[Steam]

we have that on them?

just GR> Buffer Dash Grab> shake them like a baby?

 

[culexus・wau]

Yu p.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Anything else to add about Olimar?

 

[Ares]

Don't dair his shield..upsmash oos too good

 

[culexus・wau]

Don't dair his shield..upsmash oos too good

^ this

you're allowed to whiff it on top of his shield tho

 

[Steam]

watch his line all the time... refresh moves with fair on thrown carrots... ja

 

[culexus・wau]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1ZZ1-QDh2A

ill break this down set down for you guys later

 

[RT]

Just keep in mind when Pikmin are on you, all moves stay out longer while hitting Pikmin on you, so your fsmash/ftilt stays out FOREVER (Brinstar status). The obvious tradeoff is that you receive damage and have more ending lag.

 

[culexus・wau]

Can someone transcribe for me on skype later?

I can't type/write as fast as I'd like while watching the video

 

[Fogo]

Whats the best move to get pikmin off of you?

And are there any other options on ness/lucas out of grab release?

 

[Steam]

Utilt and uair are probably the best two. Nair isn't bad either.

Uair covers his whole body so it's the best if you know oli can't punish you for it

 

[culexus・wau]

nair or uair


utilt if olimar is NOWHERE near you or itll hit him

 

[G-Beast]

Ahh I hope I am not too late for Olimar...

I've been butting heads with a local olimar main who beats me sometimes...

From what I can tell, the killing of pikmin(or atleast disrupting them, fair is good at this) helps a lot... less pikmin is more time plucking new ones which is punishable. Paying attention to what pikmins he/she has at every given time is also vital.

Fully charged Aura Spheres are awesome, they kill most pikmin at any % and I think the only one that stops it at low %s is the purple one... and Olimar does not appear to have anything to beat it down except Fsmashes with purple; it clanks at low %s.

my personal favorite move to get pikmin off of me is uair; it lacks the lag of nair and can cover you a little bit with it's large hitbox

If Olimar grabs you and Uthrows you, DI away from him and try to jump to not get comboed into ~40% damage

Once you get Olimar offstage, which can be a bit hard to do depending on how campy the player is and how much he abuses his grabs and fmash(which you need to be out of range of unless you are punishing, and I personally find his fmash not that hard to punish), throwing any size aura sphere get's olimar on his toeses... when he's close enough to the stage it can bait the whistle->upB which is easy enough to get in position to *most of the time* to dair for the kill. Bthrow at the edge is awesome for setting up the offstage game I find. Yellow usmash is pretty rough to get hit by, in fact it's generally a bad idea to be above Olimar unless his pikmin is blue or white.

Fighting Olimar in the air can be really hard to do... when he has red or yellow pikmin at the ready his fair and uair, and to a lesser extent bair, start to become hard to fight(impossible if it's fair vs fair although I think bair can get through, I might be wrong on that one though).

Speaking of uair, yellow pikmin uair(although this is known I believe) is awful to be against, don't fight it at all.

All in all if you play your cards patiently and wait, Olimar can have a bit of trouble getting the kill in which is a plus, but on the other hand it can be a pain to get through his near constant pikmin attacks(especially f and dsmash), abusing AS is key.

I give it a 50-50

 

[Browny]

Fully charged Aura Spheres are awesome, they kill most pikmin at any % and I think the only one that stops it at low %s is the purple one... and Olimar does not appear to have anything to beat it down except Fsmashes with purple; it clanks at low %s.

Ok I stopped reading right there. What part of all pikmin (smashes, sideb, grabs, everything) cancel aura sphere at all %'s are you missing?

 

[G-Beast]

Because I've killed countless pikmin with aura sphere...

 

[D Who?]

I think you guys are looking at this all wrong. I have wins on a Oli main named Fearless and I think that if you can keep pikmin on you thats better. It boosts aura and Oli is so light that killing isn't a problem. Once you have the lead, BAS to stop pikmin and dair behind them but keep in mind olis pikmin order and the ranges of the pikmin. Always approach from above. He is use to people not wanting to be above oli, and it's not a bad idea in other MU's but lulus dair *****. Space with fsmash and dont jones for the kill. It works I swear. Just don't **** up or you'll be eating a **** load of damage

And jab options: jab jab buffer dash grab
Jab Jab pivot grab
jab cancel
jab jab -cancel- dsmash
Jab jab fsmash
All good mixups

I'll elaborate later. Can't in school right now

 

[RT]

I will say this...if you're solely focused on killing Pikmin, you're playing the matchup wrong. The Olimar can easily run away and pluck a fresh set of six within a few seconds. Heck, they can pluck and then shield immediately.

 

[culexus・wau]

I think you guys are looking at this all wrong. I have wins on a Oli main named Fearless and I think that if you can keep pikmin on you thats better.

because these two points totally correlate. hurrdurr I beat olimar main that nobody knos and thats why you keep pikmin on you.


It boosts aura and Oli is so light that killing isn't a problem.

Who cares if he's light, olimar is hard to hit with a kill moves at times [especially if we don't have him on the ledge].

If lightness = How easy they got kill metaknight would consistantly die early.

do bad he doesn't because he's gay at avoiding kill moves, and olimar can too with whistle + defensive options.

Once you have the lead, BAS to stop pikmin

Fair is better keep pikmin off, BAS is used to trade chip damage with olimar.

and dair behind them but keep in mind olis pikmin order and the ranges of the pikmin. Always approach from above.

Have fun getting UpB'd and Upsmashed premptively out of your approach, I do agree you need to keep in Olimar's blindspot [90 degrees] during pressure, but for getting in always mix-up approach.


He is use to people not wanting to be above oli, and it's not a bad idea in other MU's but lulus dair *****.


Too bad he can shield -> upsmash it no problem, if you whiff it above shield its good but DO NOT HIT OLIMAR'S SHIELD WITH DAIR.

Space with fsmash and dont jones for the kill. It works I swear. Just don't **** up or you'll be eating a **** load of damage


Olimar's non purple Fsmash/Grab [and even then purple pikmin toss will interupt our fsmash] is the same range and outspeeds our Fsmash, Stutterstep backwards fsmash only works for so long until you run out of space and olimar has you cornered.

And jab options: jab jab buffer dash grab
Jab Jab pivot grab
jab cancel
jab jab -cancel- dsmash
Jab jab fsmash
All good mixups

Jab -> Grab/Pivot grab/Dash Attack/Uptilt/Dtilt is the best when he's not kill % because of juggles.

Double Jab gives them more time to react and the only time it should be used is when using the jab option select or delayed jab 2 or if you REALLY need that extra damage.

All the Smash mix-ups you listed should really be used once he's kill % imo but w.e. piles damage on yo

You should check out my jab option selects thread for luc, interested stuff there if you're doing .

I don't like it when people spread misinformation on my most practiced/theorized/favorite match-up.

wtf does dont jones mean.

And RT, the only pikmin you really should be killing are Purples.. and blues if you don't really like getting grab killed but otherwise yeah I agree.

 

[phi1ny3]

Sometimes I'll fire an AS on a stray purple if I find one lagging behind and I'm not in any danger of getting punished aside from a pikmin toss, it may not be doing anything to Oli, but it's far better than dealing with a dumb purple aerial/usmash, so imo it's worth it.

 

[culexus・wau]

if a stray purple is lagging behind and olimar is coming near you uptilt it or dsmash.

it olimar trys to hit you he might get hit and you deal damage to the purple.

I dunno the purple health off the top of my head but I think its somewhere around 30% HP

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Any ideas for who is next to be discussed?

 

[culexus・wau]

before we move on let me check with D so I can give you my commentary on my matches vs fino

otherwise, ummmmmm...... Peach, Zero Suit Samus, Snake,Falco, or Zeik

I play Peach/ZSS/Snake/Zeik

and I have learned some stuff vs falco and snake.


We should have Match-up Skype discussions

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I'd really like to talk about Weegee because we haven't talked about that MU in forever.

 

[D Who?]

No, fearless is one of the best olis in Fl and it's not hard to hit kill moves on him if you approach properly. If you have his pikmin on you then he doesn't have them so you have a better chance on getting in on him. I watch so many Lucarios try to play it completely safe and avoid his pikmin all together.

Oli doesn't have many options in the air on lucario so deal damage to him in the air. Pressure is also key in the match. Try to keep oli close to the ledge so you cut off some of his escape options. AS comes in handy when you have him cornered. He may out camp our AS so try to pick off what pikmin he may have left with it and look for an opening to ftilt or grab.

Lucario has a good jab range so use it to your advantage. If you approach Oli from above at an angle, he doesn't have many options. Run throw pikmin, usmash, piv grab or jab. Maybe utilt or nair. Maybe. But nothing that anticipation can't handle. Perry any attack and oos nair. Nair will be a great kill move if you keep it fresh.

I think everyone knows Oli gets gimped so try to keep him off throw bas for pressure and space a fsmash or cliffhog

For the first life charge your AS first thing. Throw afew safe fairs as a fake approach to see their reactions. Then keep some pikmin on you that he throws (Get white the **** off you) but everything else is k. Come in from an angle and deal some damage and just stick on his ***. Don't give him room to run around. His short game is jab, dtilt and utilt. Not hard to avoid. Jab is fast so try to PS it and nair if you have the chance. Keep pressure when he builds distance with BAS try to keep him off the ground. He gets juggled pretty easily. Try to get a good read on the whistle and punish. Once the first stock is off, you're good. On second stock oli has to come after you. Make him chase after you and get little damage here and there. Don't throw badly spaced anything. Play Conservatively untill he takes your stock.

I know this seems like it wouldn't work, but it does.

Sorry it took so long to elaborate

 

[D Who?]

if a stray purple is lagging behind and olimar is coming near you uptilt it or dsmash.

it olimar trys to hit you he might get hit and you deal damage to the purple.

I dunno the purple health off the top of my head but I think its somewhere around 30% HP

DP
Purples have 18% but for some reason little damage like 1 or 2 percent don't affect the purple.

Umm IIRC yellows have 12% so do blues, reds have 14 and yellows have 10 and whites have 2-5?

Oli use blue to grab (watch out it will kill us at 130) White for damage or grab (long *** grab range and alot of pummel damage) Yellows go through sheilds reds are **** for areals and smashes. We all know about purple. Oh and Usmash with purple has a ****ing retarted hitbox.

 

[Steam]

No, fearless is one of the best olis in Fl

and Nexus is the best RoB main in Socal.

jussayin never heard of any olis out of florida doing anything.