Simple facts that you may not know...

breakthrough

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not sure if this matters or not, but on DL, as falcon vs DK, if you upb DK right under the middle plat, you end up landing exactly on the middle plat, as if you just z-canceled.
Seems like it works for other characters as well, it happened in some Falcon vs Kirby matches I played earlier today when I upb'd him and landed perfectly on the middle platform.

Not sure if this has been posted or not in 15 pages but, when in Kirby ditto's and you suicide fgrab with Kirby off the edge of DL, if the Kirby you grabbed jumps at the exact moment that you die (or perhaps right after you die but before they have gone down as well), they'll survive with all jumps and can make it back to the stage. I just did this in Kirby ditto's earlier and the guy I was playing against said "wat .__." and I reacted accordingly. Didn't know you could survive that as I had.
 

mixa

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Do you really survive with all jumps?

I tested with Mario and could only get his second jump, which was enough to get at the ledge, btw.


Even though Ness has enough vertical recover to survive, he can't. Because Ness sucks.
 

B Link

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Save an offstage teammate/opponent as Kirby: Jump towards them, suck them in and then spit them out immediately

Fancy falcon edgeguard: run to ledge - dash away from edge - pivot-slide off aerial

Link dittos **** tent follow up: After utilting link towards the middle platform (such that the opponent link will land on the middle platform after your utilt), do a quick double jump up to the middle platform and Bair, it will hit regardless of whether they tech or not. Follow up with fair-boomerang-fair to kill.
 

mixa

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Vertical kill resistance, or how easy it is to kill each character vertically:

Character %
Jigglypuff 52 :jigglypuff64:
Kirby 63 :kirby64:
Pikachu 67 :pikachu64:
Ness 72 :ness64:
Luigi 74 :luigi64:
Mario 76 :mario64:
Samus 82 :samus64:
Fox 85 :fox64:
Link 90 :link64:
Yoshi 90 :yoshi64:
Falcon 91 :falcon64:
DK 102 :dk64:


I used Fox's u-smash from the main platform (ground) of DL, so these values are the minimum % to kill each character.
This table doesn't match weight.
I have more stuff (this was ready long time ago lol) but I'll save it for the stage thread.



fixed the goddamn table
 
Last edited:

Timotheus

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Was on a smashfest yesterday. Found out that PAL Link recovery is better than US version. UP-B goes higher. Maybe doublejump too. Not sure about that. Vids are comiiiiiing
 

Madao

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Was on a smashfest yesterday. Found out that PAL Link recovery is better than US version. UP-B goes higher. Maybe doublejump too. Not sure about that. Vids are comiiiiiing
Pal Link has a heavier weight, higher max X-Air speed, faster X-Air Acceleration, and faster fast fall speed, but I didn't look at his Up B specs.
 
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Vertical kill resistance, or how easy it is to kill each character vertically:
Jigglypuff .. 52
Kirby .......... 63
Pikachu ....67
Ness ..........72
Luigi ...........74
Mario .........76
Samus ...... 82
Fox ............ 85
Link ........... 90
Yoshi ........ 90
Falcon ...... 91
DK ............. 102

I used Fox's upsmash on the main platform of DL, so these values are the minimum % to kill.
This table doesn't match weight.
I have more stuff (this was ready long time ago lol) but I'll save it for the stage thread.

some of these make no sense in relation to the character's weight (which you mentioned). what determines their vertical kill resistance?


I want to knoooowww
 

Madao

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Haha ya, I didn't know how bad it would turn out if I just pasted it. I forgot all about google docs ._.

Can you guys see my table now though?

I forgot to explain some of the stuff here.
Small Combo Connection is the max # of frames between the first jab and second jab.
For jumping, i'll have to explain that one later, since I did not write down/ memorize the exact formulas.
Starting X-Air Velocity Multiplier is a number you multiply by 80. This is your starting
X velocity if you are moving before you jump.
Walking Speed multiplier is multiplied by usually 80, to get your max walking speed.
Shield Radius is a multiplier (I didn't write that formula down).
 

Madao

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Are you sure this isn't a straight radius?

And you appear to be missing a few (mostly minor) things, such as what I believe is shield bounce velocity (the value right after shield size).
Ya, I know that I'm missing a few things.
From what I saw when looking at shield radius, it multiplies your shield radius with your current shield value then divides by 55. I know there's more because at the same shield value, Link's shield is a bit bigger than Fox's. I'm guessing it also multiplies with the character's body size. I'll have to do some more tracing.

If you know any more variables that I missed, let me know. I'd appreciate your help.
 

Toomai

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From what I saw when looking at shield radius, it multiplies your shield radius with your current shield value then divides by 55. I know there's more because at the same shield value, Link's shield is a bit bigger than Fox's. I'm guessing it also multiplies with the character's body size. I'll have to do some more tracing.
Body size is 8 floats before walk speed; Link-NTSC is 1.24 while Fox-NTSC is 1.0, so that explains it.

The (times shield health / 55) makes sense because max shield health is 55, so it's basically sized on a straight percentage based on shield power.

There's a whole ton of numbers after shield bounce velocity, such as skin type and hurtbox data, but I don't know what exactly they are (and a lot of them are half-ints).
 

Madao

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Body size is 8 floats before walk speed; Link-NTSC is 1.24 while Fox-NTSC is 1.0, so that explains it.

The (times shield health / 55) makes sense because max shield health is 55, so it's basically sized on a straight percentage based on shield power.

There's a whole ton of numbers after shield bounce velocity, such as skin type and hurtbox data, but I don't know what exactly they are (and a lot of them are half-ints).
I went and looked at http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/M_AbilityAll.html for some more clues. I found the shield bounce velocity you were talking about, then I found shadow radius, range (when I raised this number, it made me push against other players who were far away while standing on the same platform), judgement coordinate, and some variable that does something to Up B.

I'll go ahead and look at the body size data. I finally found the mechanics for Z canceling. It turns out that it's a 11 frame window, not 6. Now I just need to find out how to show hitboxes.
 

Madao

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Hitbox mode makes you use less cpu (at least in emulator). It makes a noticable difference in a 4 player match.
 

Madao

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Only problem would be that sometimes it's hard to distinguish who's who LOL. So I had to make a code so that the player icon is always above your head.


Lol what color should I make the default hurtbox?
 

Madao

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Hitbox mode... it's beautiful :love: . Thanks Madao.

I don't know. But I do like that lemon green one from the screenshot. How easy is it to change colors?
It just requires you to freeze 2 values if you use cheat engine, or 2 gameshark codes. These type of codes only work if you turn it on before loading the stage or save state.

Here's the gameshark code
810F2786 ????
810F279E ????

These are the default colors, D0D000FF = Yellow, 00D000FF = Green, 0000D0FF = Blue, 00000000 = Black
You can use any numbers you want, but it takes a while to find the colors you want. It's just a hassle to test colors since you have to leave the match and come back or reload savestate to see the changes. Someone should make a gameshark thread. I guess nemu would be ideal for testing since debugging will update the game code.

I might as well throw in the player icon always shows code.
810E7284 0000
810E7286 0000
8013E237 0001

Also guys, let me know if the hitbox code reduces your cpu usage in a 4 player match. I'm wondering if it's just my computer / video plugin or if it actually does work universally. Should I use a custom colors for frame display recording or just stick with default lol?
 

KnitePhox

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Thanks meng, time to setup win98 pc and connect to my console...CODE TIME.

i have a question about ????'s in the previous post, what kind of values do you place there? just anything 0000-FFFF ?
 

Madao

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Yes anything from 0000-FFFF
What can you do with your n64 while it's connected to pc? Sounds interesting. I put the codes in order so if you do
810F2786 F000
810F279E 0000
You will get the color red.

810F2786 D0D0
810F279E F0FF
You will get grey.

As far as emulators go, the fastest way to test colors is to quickly set a read breakpoint on the color and then turn off the breakpoint.
 

KnitePhox

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thanks much for the info

i can do a lot but am still limited

i can dump the cart outside of the game, in gameshark menu. dump current RAM while in game, in GS menu can add codes roughly 1000000x faster than manual input via text doc, and save/backup codelists for each game or the whole gs cart itself.

outside of using a PC, with a n64 memory card, i can save and upload codelists for 1 game at a time to another gameshark, VERY nice for spreading all my codes quickly to my ***5*** gamesharks

i think there is also a way to upload ROMs to carts, have not tried it yet
 
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