Silver's Challenge 1.1

[silver0p]

ok this thread is so we can farther increase the sheik tech archives! Seeing all the posts in demodemos thread i decided that, yes there is a lack of people on the sheik thread. Yes we have found alot of techs and we are almost "Running out" or so to say. So i decided that from now on i will give out challenges to everybody on the sheik forum theses challenges could be a verity of things you will never know untill i send the challenge out! So with out farther adue....

Purpose of thread: To get this forum active and develop more techs and combos for sheik.

Why would we do this?
Because what else are you going to do? And everyone needs step it up and help farther sheiks abilitys, and drawing in more people and hopefully raise sheik in the tier lists.
And its a challenge who doenst like challenges? ... Bragging Rights...

.:Rules:.
1.No spaming making comments like "this is dumb"
2. If some one says something thats already been discoverd be nice and dont flam them out for saying somethign thats already known.
3. Be a fair sport if somone already did something dont take credit.
4. Have fun! get your friends together and try to do the challenge!


THE FIRST CHALLENGE

.:CHALLANGES:.

1: find a new tech/combo with sheiks needles
status: not beaten yet


*NEW* CHALLENGE

Ok for this challenge i want everybody to look for a new Arial Discovory including:

1: a new tech
2: new Arial combo
3: glitch
4: other tid bit or even a discovery maybe something we didn't know about it yet

(DONT FORGET TO COMMENT SAYING YOUR ENTERING THE CHALLENGE!)

Ok and now lets say you discover something then please leave a Post explaining it and if you can a picture or a video would help!

But hey you might be asking what do i get if i am the first to discover something?

Well my good gental wo/men and scholar. You win Bragging Rights for a week and if its really good like a new tech you might even get your tech/ combo into a guide. (No promises though) Oh and you also get the title CHAMPION OF CHALLENGES untill the next challenge is released.


Alright now that you guys are all fired up go and tackle this challenge like Falcon Punching Meta Knight!

And remember if someone already discoverd something first dont quit! The challenge last till the next one starts! ok theses challanges last till they are solved but i will continue adding challenges! Happy Findings!

 

[rinoH]

prtty cool idea

 

[-Mars-]

Correct punctuation is a must for the first post of a new thread.........also this is dumb.

 

[silver0p]

hey thats against the rules! at least im trying

thanks for the tip i edited that but there might still be some spelling errors didn't cheek for that

 

[-Mars-]

I don't blame you for trying, but that's the reaction you're going to get from everyone else

 

[silver0p]

well thats ok haha atleast rinoH thought it was cool

 

[Villi]

Forced get ups with single needles/needle storms:

Tristan Win reminded me that get up attacks have fixed knockback. Against light and midweight characters, Sheik's get up attack has enough knockback to knock someone onto the floor. If they miss their tech/air dodge, you can force a get up by throwing a needle at them and go in for a free up smash or shield stopped ftilt/dsmash.

A sweet spotted bair will knock mid-weights down about 40%. A strong bair will knock them down around 50%. A strong nair will knock them down somewhere between those percents. A fair will knock them down around 60%. A weak bair will knock them down at around 100%. A weak nair will knock them down around 120%. You can follow all of these up with a needle to punish a missed tech.

The trajectories send pretty horizontally, so it's difficult to not hit the ground especially at the minimum percents when their only options will be teching (if they don't DI). Good players are in the habit of not falling on their faces, whether they tech, air-dodge/aerial, or jump. If they have decent DI habits, you can forget about it.

If you can surprise someone with a quick short-hopped aerial while their guard is down, though, you can land a painful amount of damage or land a KO move as they stand up.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Depending on your opponent 'having there guard down' and missing a tech is pretty unreliable. I mean, who misses techs that's good any more? It's nice to know incase the situation arises, but it's very situational.

 

[demodemo]

dash attack cancelled needles to grab OMGg I just thought of it but i doubt it works ;_;

 

[SinkingHigher]

This is not well known but I posted it in my guide some time ago, just thought I'd bring some attention to spacing needles.

For some reason using full or single needlestorms can turn a character around (thus far I believe the circumstances required lie in the opponents hypothetical court.)

At close range, needles pull someone behind you. I have been trying to use this to create a trap for a reverse chainlock, but to no avail. It's not a guaranteed trap, but if you do it in the air you can lock them by the time you both fall to the ground.

Anywho, ledgestall until the opponent approaches, at which point either tether cancel or ledge drop, then jump and throw your needles. If you timed it right they will be RIGHT next to you trying to attack (please note the is VERY situational and is in no way 100% guaranteed to work every time. Also note, you can do this while standing at the corner or the stage possibly after a spotdodge) At this point the opponent is thrown behind you into thin air and begin freefalling while you instantly grab the ledge. Congradulations, you have entered the edge-guarding scenario--Sheik's forte.

During the brief "wtf" period, immediately drop down from the ledge and footstool your opponent for an easy kill.

I have done 4 this times, twice at 0%. The timing is rough, but watching some of Gimpyfish's vids helped me understand how to footstool.

Basically, this is Sheik's first 0-death combo iirc. I'll try to get some vids up soon.

(Note: I have been unable to do this on certain characters like kirby and marth. I think it's just some strange coincidence though. Just as a note I seem to get very close on Mario and Pikachu.)

 

[silver0p]

wait so is this new... or arew we brining something up thats old?


UPDATE NEW CHALLENGE!

 

[silver0p]

whooops sorry accedental dubble post sorry!

 

[SinkingHigher]

Okay, silver, this thread is not as useless as the other ones.

Anyhow, I'm working on something that could be cool with needles. Until then, this is a question more than a statement, but I've been practicing what I call "infinite n-air".

I'm sure there is another name for this, but I forget, so...

Basically landing lag on a well timed SHFFn-air or just SHn-air results in practically zero landing lag. If you continuously swipe x>a (while holding forwards or backwards when pressing X) you can have sheik remain in n-air position for as long as you wish. Of course you are not invincible, but what do you guys think of using this as an approach?

On second thought maybe this isn't the thread for the question.

 

[silver0p]

they could be good for like a "wall attack" thats what i call attacks like ikes up b, pikachus and kibys maybe.(wait or i might be interpiting what your saying wrong) or i can imagine it would be good for getting out of gimping or so to say..

keep on it i cant wait to see your results

 

[Sinjihn]

Using Nair as an approach will get you grabbed after a shield, you should use Nair to tip shields or as an anti-air when they are directly above or a bit NE, NW of your head. Using Nair as an approach, like many have said, its situational. If you are going to short hop a Nair, make sure that you jam back if they shield, else you are going to get grabbed, or even UP+B out of shielded.

 

[Conclusively]

Using Nair as an approach will get you grabbed after a shield, you should use Nair to tip shields or as an anti-air when they are directly above or a bit NE, NW of your head. Using Nair as an approach, like many have said, its situational. If you are going to short hop a Nair, make sure that you jam back if they shield, else you are going to get grabbed, or even UP+B out of shielded.

Retreating N-Air isn't safe itself. It would just be better to B-Air, or needle camp to make them approach. N-Air is a terrible move to use against a shield.

 

[Squidster]

Nair isn't an approach, it's
a punisher
a killer
a move to combo with the soft part of it.

Wall of Bair > Wall of Nair. Continuous hitbox isn't useful.

 

[SinkingHigher]

Ahhh yes b-air.

Thanks guys I'll try this out. I never tried the n-air "wall" on anyone but a sandbag.

iirc Chok or Tristan has l33t b-air skills. Must find the videos.

 

[silver0p]

hey any new findings sink? or has all gone down the drain? haha well let us know

 

[Voyeur]

Well I'm not entirely sure this really meets any of the challenges but recently I've been trying to pick up crawl dashing and God-is-my-Rock's pseudo wave dashing but ending up doing something tad different.
I have no way of recording this or taking pictures at the moment unless I sent something via the Wii but I'll do my best to explain it, it really isn't a big deal but it is something I've never seen brought up.


Have Sheik facing right with her back against the left hand side ledge. She can be placed at any part on the floor of the level (FD, Yoshi's Island, Smashville or waiting room for Wifi work well)
Tap left on the Joystick as if to Walk back and then very smoothly & quickly roll the Joystick down so you are in the Crawling position and give it some more push now as you make you're way to the right so you're briefly crawling backwards for a moment. During that you bring the Joystick to the 2nd groove, then should end up with it on the right groove, Sheik should be turned back facing the right side and you should get a slide boost of about 1 1/2 or maybe 2 body counts. (not sure)

Basically you're rolling the Joystick from left to right in a smooth but quick fashion.


__S___s______________
\-----------------------------/
Capital is Sheik's position before and the lower case is after.

If she does an extra walking trot animation you didn't go as far as you could with the slide. Or some times the case is her knees will bend a bit which is fine.
I use it for making up that tiny bit of space to get in and do Dsmash or dodge a hit that would other wise hit me if I wasn't crawling, then come up and perform grab or dtilt to ftilt lock etc.
I can't do it from right to left though for some reason. I have tried it with other crawling characters and I believe Yoshi and Luigi were a bit noticeable but it is really Sheik who shines with the slide.

So that's it in a nutshell. Interjection on perhaps a "new" tech
Reverse crawl dashing or what not.

 

[KRDsonic]

Not that it's new, but I've never heard anyone mention/seen anyone do her up tilt lock. It only works up to two hits, and on a few characters like DK, and only if you're facing away from them, but it is an easy way to leave into a Ftilt lock from 0%

 

[Edu.]

I've been trying some combos with banana peels.
I dont know if any of you guys can find this usefull but here is a video I made in a few minuts:

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=nTvchJHdlpY&fmt=18

Perhaps someone can develop a good (and not situational) combo with any of these ideas?

Edit:
You can start some of these combos jumping over diddy -> throw him a banana peel -> bair.
Or simply when he trips on a peel that is behind him -> nair/fair.

 

[Voyeur]

Not that it's new, but I've never heard anyone mention/seen anyone do her up tilt lock. It only works up to two hits, and on a few characters like DK, and only if you're facing away from them, but it is an easy way to leave into a Ftilt lock from 0%

so on DK, Bowser, and DeeDeeDee as such you turn your back against them and are able to lock for a few hits with Utilt, I usually just do it from in front or as a follow up to Ftilt locking but I'll try this lock.

I've been trying some combos with banana peels.
I dont know if any of you guys can find this usefull but here is a video I made in a few minuts:

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=nTvchJHdlpY

Perhaps someone can develop a good (and not situational) combo with any of these ideas?

The vid has been removed it says. But banana control could be helpful if you gain control over a Diddy Kong match I suppose.
-
Also as to accept a needle challenge; Short Hop Reverse Needle Cancel (SHRNC)
Running forward, perform a short hop, quickly do a Reverse needle and then cancel.
The needle charging will give you a short little extended jump forward and it auto cancels so you're able to perform any action after it.
So i.e. if some one is chasing you, Sheik's speed will more the likely put you ahead you perform the SHRNC and catch them off guard by now being in front of them able to do Usmash, Dsmash, Sheild-Grab, etc.

[SHRNC is said like SHRINK-so you're shrinking your opponent. In other games there is something called KITE'ing but instead of using projectiles to lengthen your distance, you're using your body to lead them behind you and get closer. Hence; shrinking the body count between you and your opponent while they chase after you to quickly deliver a follow up move.]

 

[Edu.]

The vid has been removed it says.

If you watch it in high quality it works (I don't undertand why) but I edited de URL anyway.

 

[silver0p]

edu omg dude that is like really good i can see how that could greatly put us above diddy in matches if we can manage to learn it and be efficent at useing it that means that you dont just have to discardthem! dude excelent find. idk if its a find but something i havnt herd of you use alot of air attacks for that, dude im debating wether you should win this challenge or not, humm we will see


voy thats very intresting maybe later i might add a challenge about soemthign that thats protaining to so like you could win dude nice but try to get a picture or vid it with a phone or camera or something

 

[Voyeur]

Yeah EDU it is working now, and those were some really great combos to tie into Banana's but it's sort of VERY situational I feel. It's not like it doesn't hurt though to try and take a stab at using them when those occasions arise I guess....but still



I'll try to get a vid of both the Reverse crawl dashing and SHRNC'ing, and how I've used them in battle. Works well to dodge Snake's hits and get in to do a Dtilt then start Ftilt locking. To be deadly honest though I'm entirely a noob with Sheik compared to the many others, I need A LOT of work but that's why I'm here. To learn. Perhaps a friend I know has a video capture device she can help me out with.



EDIT: or if anyone has a way they can record it, just add me on Brawl. I know thus far my moves are pretty much added variations to already discovered techniques.

 

[demodemo]

lol someone a few weeks ago mentioned pivoting with needles to approach with a bair, unless you are talking about something else. (not sure what you are trying to say...chasing them? being in front of them? offgaurd? wat)

it was in a topic awhile back..really dont remember who did it but in all honesty it's pretty silly when you can just reverse aerial rush. rar is a lot more practical and faster. this way supposedly cancels your momentum with the needles, but you can eliminate most momentum with rar with good stick control anyway..

 

[Voyeur]

mmm....something else. But when you're dashing, do the short hop then reverse B to pivot with the needles in the air so you're facing the other direction, then you Cancel the needle charge. It gives a little momentum forward I suppose when doing the needle hold.

It is like that idea above there, where I guess if you're dashing at some one you could short hop, reverse B then cancel to do a Bair. But I was thinking of using more for when you can predict some one to dash at you, you just dash away from the area where that attack would take place, then quickly perform the SHRNC to be facing them and punish with w/e.
If that makes any sense.

It could also be used with Needle gliding to where some one is either recovering up the ledge from a jump or their recovery move etc. and while dashing you can short hop off the ledge, reverse B cancel and do a footstool in time then the jump should either land you back on the ledge or to grab it and follow up with what ever edge guard tactic.


Idk, basically: dash-short hop-reverse B-cancel. If there is any use for it or effectiveness, then it's up for others to test with it and try it out.

 

[silver0p]

haha voy even if you say your a noob you talk like an experianced person dude im impressed dude like alot

 

[Voyeur]

haha voy even if you say your a noob you talk like an experianced person dude im impressed dude like alot

I beg to differ, along with others I'm sure >__<
Theory moves and combos are all fine and all well when typed out on paper but it is a different thing for me to get the moves down and apply them with my hands on the controller. But I don't mind trying to discover new moves or even expand on stale ones to heighten Sheik's metagame.

this is the first time I've put effort into this sort of stuff. Usually I sit back and reap the benefits of others. I'll try working more on SHRNC (& its uses) and reverse crawl dash and try to capture both on video and upload them in a separate post :] Other then that I really have nothing, but I'll keep screwing around with stuff and see what happens.

 

[demodemo]

as far as i know, there are no uses for that. i've experimented with it a lot, and i'm sure people like gimpy have too.

anyway, do you know what reverse aerial rush is? it accomplishes what you are saying, only it does not require charging any needles at all. its a lot more practical and effective in both situations (approaching and defending). the only technical difference is that charging needles negate all momentum, but that can be done with rar with stick control anyway.

the only time reverse needles come in handy are when you are offstage and you attack with a bair, then pivot (with needles) and fair.

this is a good tactic since fair hits at a really good angle + fastest cooldown out of all her aerials + you can jump right out of it to recover easier. you should watch gimpy's combo video, he does it a couple of times.

 

[Voyeur]

Alright cool. So just dash-turn around- and Bair. Do you recommend B-sticking for it?
And I've seen Gimpy's fights, I'll have to watch his entire combo video with Sheik. He seems to be able to pull off the pivot with needles really quick.

edit: so after doing RAR more and then looking at SHRNC, I still can see the moments if you react to it where killing the momentum would come in handy and create even better spacing. It also suits to go with one of East's ideas of where you can turn around your opponent with one needle if you hit in the right place,

so look as if you're dashing away, quickly short hop, reverse needle, throw -don't cancel, aim for a hitbox behind your opponent's head or behind their back of the feet (I believe that is what East was saying could work to turn them around) and if successful you have that advantage to follow up with a quick and hopefully nonpunishable situation where they still have to turn around. Since you should Land with lag-cancel, you can do a slide-grab or if the spacing is proper, get your Fsmash to connect

 

[silver0p]

hummmm so have we found somthing for the challange?

 

[Flamingo]

Alright cool. So just dash-turn around- and Bair. Do you recommend B-sticking for it?
And I've seen Gimpy's fights, I'll have to watch his entire combo video with Sheik. He seems to be able to pull off the pivot with needles really quick.

edit: so after doing RAR more and then looking at SHRNC, I still can see the moments if you react to it where killing the momentum would come in handy and create even better spacing. It also suits to go with one of East's ideas of where you can turn around your opponent with one needle if you hit in the right place,

so look as if you're dashing away, quickly short hop, reverse needle, throw -don't cancel, aim for a hitbox behind your opponent's head or behind their back of the feet (I believe that is what East was saying could work to turn them around) and if successful you have that advantage to follow up with a quick and hopefully nonpunishable situation where they still have to turn around. Since you should Land with lag-cancel, you can do a slide-grab or if the spacing is proper, get your Fsmash to connect

I like the Fsmash, it isn't as horrible as people make it out to be.

 

[Voyeur]

who else has seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL2cfGMPY8I

the most manliest move in the game, and we can beat it with but a gust of wind.

 

[East]

You can do that with Pit using his mirror shield if you sheild it at the right time. It turns Falcon around, and it looks like he punches over the entire level. It'd be an amazing way to kill in 2v2's if it worked that is [which I'm fairly certain it doesn't].

 

[Flamingo]

You can do that with Pit using his mirror shield if you sheild it at the right time. It turns Falcon around, and it looks like he punches over the entire level. It'd be an amazing way to kill in 2v2's if it worked that is [which I'm fairly certain it doesn't].

It would be incredible if the hurtbox (or is it hitbox?) actually stayed that entire time.