Berserker.
:^)
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- Jun 8, 2009
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Thanks. Sorry for pestering you about it, haha.Updating soon
Alright, so just replace 1213 with 2123? I honestly don't think that decisive lends itself well to being paiered with AAS, but I suppose we may as well just have it.@ Berserker.
Air slash customs its a game changing decision unlike backslash customs, and for that reason only all combinations should be represented with every art.
For all of the above, 1213 or 1223 should be replaced by 2123.
I wholeheartedly second this.I don't think Decisive deserves more sets. It significantly hurts Shulk's playstyle by not being able to switch arts and can really hurt you if you mess up while in an art. Most players are going to want Standard or Hyper (I sense Hyper will become more and more popular among professionals as time goes on). You really hurt what Shulk can do with decisive arts. If it fits your play style, then by all means use it; that's why we have the sets it has. But, we should give more sets to a theoretically worse move on the basis that people might want to use it. If anything, we should be giving another set to Hyper arts, although I think having more sets with default arts early is better because it's not as, you know, extreme.
Although I don't think we don't need that much decisive sets, there are some free slots because I think we should strike out any set with a non-default back slash being used@ Berserker.
We have 1113 and 1123,so why do we have 1213 and 1223 too? backslash customs shouldnt deserve a set just because. Nobody has given true reasons to include leap bs outside of hyper monado arts on battlefield, and even that its streching it. Those sets are no game changing and therefore a waste of a set.
We have 5 sets for regular monado arts including niche, 3 for hyper and 2 for decisive. IMO decisive deserves the same representation of hyper, 3 sets also. Im happy with 2113 and 2133 making the cut, buy also believe that leaving out 2123 while keeping 1213 AND 1223 its a mistake. Even if 2123 its the worst combination for decisive arts( as i believe), you never know when someone over the world could surprise you. By recovering earlier and playing smart you can overcome the loss of vertical height of AAS and it could be even better while in decisive shield if you know what you are doing.
what if decisive eventualy becomes the norm for it being the better art (as i believe)? people only would have 2 sets to play it and that its just. wrong. Modifing all tourney wiius around the world just for shulk? its not going to happen, so if we make a mistake now we are screwed for good.
Air slash customs its a game changing decision unlike backslash customs, and for that reason only all combinations should be represented with every art.
For all of the above, 1213 or 1223 should be replaced by 2123.
I can actually agree with thisI'd rather see a 3122 for people that prefer hyper arts that want to deal with zone breakers rather than a 3rd set for decisive arts, especially if advancing airs lash isn't even good with decisive.
Beyond that, I think this list is pretty solid. I'm definitely curious to see how much Dash Vision will actually help against zoners.
I agree with the amount of normal air slashes now (too many MAS earlier)
Dont get me wrong, I know it sucks lolWell, whatever works. I'm somewhat indifferent to customs so do what you want. I guess. I'm fine with anything. Just saying that back slash blows.
Whatever is final, I'll go with it. You guys decide
Your sets look okay to me. Most of them are sets I actually would maybe use.Dont get me wrong, I know it sucks lol
and there's gotta be a gif for that
So, do we think we should use My list or Berserker's list?
I'd rather see a 3122 for people that prefer hyper arts that want to deal with zoners rather than a 3rd set for decisive arts, especially if advancing air slash isn't even good with decisive.
Edit: Fixed some words.
How so? Is it the poor low edgeguarding (especially while in Monado Speed)? Is it that AAS is worse at Monado Jump recovery than the others? Otherwise, AAS is the best for decisive arts.I can actually agree with this
Yeah. Advancing air slash doesn't seem to be that useful with decisive. I'm willing to add 3122
There aren't any sets specifically tailored to a backslash variant, with the exception of 3213. The only reason for that is that 3213 actually has a good niche:BSL with HBuster does tremendous shield damage and can even break well preserved shields when sweetspotted. I got this set off of a reccomendation from an actual Shulk player in this thread, not a general statement. There are currently no other sets that are there solely for a Backslash variant, and I even removed one which was like that to your suggestion, so saying that this list is "Wasting slots" for Backslash is an incorrect statement.@ Splash Damage backslash blows period, no custom can fix that. It hasnt become part of anything, if you can show any video were a backslash custom has been useful please do it.I cant accept wasting sets just for backslash variants, just cant-
If recovering right the end lag wouldn't be that punishable, it's also great mix up approach against projectile users, I do feel this set is completely viable and should be included, as many people utilize this set including me.We do have a dash counter set though?
I don't personally think having a Charge set just for the sake of an extra recovery mixup is worth it, since the end lag of the move might just get you punished anyways. It may be situationally handy for decisive Shulk if he gets stuck in Shield off stage, but even then I'd call it iffy since Charge has almost no worth as an attack.
Also I find it odd that you seem to not like Decisive Arts while recommending a set using Decisive Arts.
We do have a dash counter set though?
I don't personally think having a Charge set just for the sake of an extra recovery mixup is wor
Any issue for recovering whilr in decisive is fixed by MAS. BSC its unneeded.We do have a dash counter set though?
I don't personally think having a Charge set just for the sake of an extra recovery mixup is worth it, since the end lag of the move might just get you punished anyways. It may be situationally handy for decisive Shulk if he gets stuck in Shield off stage, but even then I'd call it iffy since Charge has almost no worth as an attack.
Also I find it odd that you seem to not like Decisive Arts while recommending a set using Decisive Arts.
1213 doesn't exist, the only reason it's still there is because the list on the front page is outdated. Though, after testing, a sweetspotted BSL using normal Buster can still come very close to breaking a shield, and if you're using Buster chances are their shield is already in a bad spot anyway, making shield breaks still possible@ Splash Damage
im against 1213 and 1223 because 1113 and 1123 already exist. Those are sets oriented just because of backslash leap.
i have nothing against 3213. If hyper buster can break shields when sweetspotted im ok with it. But regular monado art cant, so there is no reason for 1213 and 1223 to exist.
Can we please discuss the inclusion of 2313, I made points regarding it's inclusion and it's a set that's extremely important to me and many other Shulk users.1213 doesn't exist, the only reason it's still there is because the list on the front page is outdated. Though, after testing, a sweetspotted BSL using normal Buster can still come very close to breaking a shield, and if you're using Buster chances are their shield is already in a bad spot anyway, making shield breaks still possible
and likely if you know what you're doing. That, and we need another AS set to for the preferentials just to give it some exposure, as it only has 3 sets outside of niches. So, I'll get rid of 1223, really not a spectacular set.
Critical sets
1113
3113
2113
Preferential sets
1123
1213
3213
2133
3123
Niche
1122
2122/XXX2
2313 has power counter, not Dash Counter. 2312 is what you're thinking of, and I don't think many other Shulks will be using that set. X3XX is alright for covering landings and getting a not-too-spectacular attack off, but it really doesn't bring much to warrant.Can we please discuss the inclusion of 2313, I made points regarding it's inclusion and it's a set that's extremely important to me and many other Shulk users.
@ Splash Damage I don't want Dash counter, I'm talking about Decisive with Advancing Back Slash. You can ignore my dash counter point, I realize what 2313 is and would like to discuss it's inclusion please.2313 has power counter, not Dash Counter. 2312 is what you're thinking of, and I don't think many other Shulks will be using that set. X3XX is alright for covering landings and getting a not-too-spectacular attack off, but it really doesn't bring much to warrant.
Okay, what do you think the second niche should take the place of 2122 should be?Why would I ever want to use Decisive monado arts against a zoner? It basically nulls buster since if I ever get in a position where I can be zoned and I'm in buster than I'm in an awful position, speed isn't nearly as useful when getting in because of the methodicalness of the projectiles, and decisive shield and smash are always risky. Pretty much only decisive jump is good, and I think standard jump works just fine.
May I ask how many people ruled it out? There are so many different play styles and to eliminate a good majority of them because you find it lackluster isn't quite cutting it, my voice should be heard as well, I mentioned my points regarding it's inclusion and why it's important to me and many other Shulk users that you haven't addressed yet.We've come to the conclusion that we don't want to include a custom set for the sole purpose of a backslash variant, and especially not Charging, as it is very lackluster compared to the others. We recently ruled out 1313 for the same reason.
How about you stick with Speed and Jump as decisive arts against Zoners, those are really good considering the low trade offs, I don't even use buster in the situation you mention and I manage to come out very successful. Like I said there's many different play styles and you aren't quite covering my and many other's as this project is supposed to be doing!Why would I ever want to use Decisive monado arts against a zoner? It basically nulls buster since if I ever get in a position where I can be zoned and I'm in buster than I'm in an awful position, speed isn't nearly as useful when getting in because of the methodicalness of the projectiles, and decisive shield and smash are always risky. Pretty much only decisive jump is good, and I think standard jump works just fine.
I didn't find it lackluster, it was my preffered set for a long time. All you have to do is look through this thread, all the info you want about the backslashes and how we discussed why to remove certain sets is already right here.May I ask how many people ruled it out? There are so many different play styles and to eliminate a good majority of them because you find it lackluster isn't quite cutting it, my voice should be heard as well, I mentioned my points regarding it's inclusion and why it's important to me and many other Shulk users that you haven't addressed yet.
3122 or some other set thats made for a tough matchup.Okay, what do you think the second niche should take the place of 2122 should be?
My points haven't been specifically addressed, this is a set that a lot of people utilize , and we need to discuss it fairly before the deadline, as it's really important to me and many other Shulk players.I didn't find it lackluster, it was my preffered set for a long time. All you have to do is look through this thread, all the info you want about the backslashes and how we discussed why to remove certain sets is already right here.
I can see that working very smoothly.3122 or some other set thats made for a tough matchup.
I haven't seejn any shulks use this, and iu haven't even heard any suggest it before you. 2113 already exists, and the Shulks here have agreed to not make a whole full new set for the sole purpose of having Backslash variants present.My points haven't been specifically addressed, this is a set that a lot of people utilize , and we need to discuss it fairly before the deadline, as it's really important to me and many other Shulk players.