Shuffle V - February 22nd & 23rd, 2014 - Columbus, OH - MLG supported event

[SoulPech]

I'm interested, but not confirmed.
If I bus down to columbus, could anyone pick me up/house me?

(Housing may not be an issue, actually, but just in case)

i will put you on the backburner w/ housing for now.

 

[Zinoto]

1. Me and LOE1 are taking teams at this. We will finally get to team
2. Sam, I will be available for seeding help and stuff again. I'm glad you guys are going at it again, we need more TOs especially with Smash 4 coming around the corner.
3. What does it mean to be sponsored by MLG? I came into the smash scene before the MLG days so I have no idea what that means lol.

EDIT: Just noticed this is a two day event. Time is more than likely not gonna be an issue. We in there.

 

[DBSammy]

1. Me and LOE1 are taking teams at this. We will finally get to team
2. Sam, I will be available for seeding help and stuff again. I'm glad you guys are going at it again, we need more TOs especially with Smash 4 coming around the corner.
3. What does it mean to be sponsored by MLG? I came into the smash scene before the MLG days so I have no idea what that means lol.

EDIT: Just noticed this is a two day event. Time is more than likely not gonna be an issue. We in there.

This tournament may be used for MLG seeding.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

Something something ill be there
something something ill help if needed (TO help, graphic design stuff, etc)
something something we better play chronophantasma at your house sam ya dingbat

o ^ o /

PS i will probably bring prints to this. mostly league.
maybe ill design some new buttons for smash/league :D
yaaay buttons!

 

[Avion]

something something we better play chronophantasma at your house sam ya dingbat

I will Hakumen your face off

2. Sam, I will be available for seeding help and stuff again. I'm glad you guys are going at it again, we need more TOs especially with Smash 4 coming around the corner.

We can for sure use help with seeding, thank you! In fact, I'd say seeding is really the only thing we definitely need help from the community with. As for most logistical stuff we are far more on top of things this time around. And we have a better idea of what to expect in terms of turnout.

 

[Carls493]

I think this time, you SHOULD request the days off for this.

I'll do that sometime next week during work. That should give me a lot of leeway to build up on by the time this goes down.

 

[DerfMidWest]

PS i will probably bring prints to this. mostly league.
maybe ill design some new buttons for smash/league :D
yaaay buttons!

Lokiiiiiii make me an ICs pin and I'll love you forever!! :DDDDDD

 

[Doctor X]

PLEASE NOTE: Due to issues last year, something needs to be done about people entering into all competitions and bottle necking progress (i.e. if one player who is good at Brawl 1v1 and 2v2 as well as Melee 1v1 and 2v2 gets to the top 16 for both side of the bracket, 4 tournaments will be hinged on one player. A possible suggestion is to still allow people to register for as many as they want, but if they make it far enough they will have to select only two tourneys to continue on in.

This issue arose last time so we're defnitely aware of it; no worries, we are working on an ideal solution to prevent bottlenecking while not punishing skilled players.

I think you guys are great and your heart is definitely in the right place here, but I need to stress this, like, a bunch.

You're talking about a two day event, with more space, more preparation for signups, a designated TO station, a microphone, and several experienced volunteers willing to lend a hand with organizational duties. You've understood and addressed all the real reasons why things were so drawn out last time. The "anti-Chudat" measure you're talking about here is not only unnecessary, it is also likely to seriously rub the community the wrong way. Apex has never had such a rule, and it boasts singles and doubles, with pools, for both Melee and Brawl, and now PM, and while they do have preregistration and make their pools beforehand, it's also a national level tournament with attendance capping 300 in every event (now in the 400 and 500 range). Shuffle IV had like, a tenth of that number.

We know that nothing "needs to be done" about people entering multiple events. What "needs to be done" is planning, preparation, and coordinated effort from designated staff and volunteers, which I'm absolutely certain you guys have now. So, relax. Save the draconian measures for when you actually need them. :\

 

[Markus E-bear]

You're talking about a two day event

The event is kinda more like 1.5 days, as the venue has to be cleared out on Sunday at 5:00. I agree with you though, I don't think the "Chudat problem" will be much of an issue as everything will be a lot more orderly and more planned. We are trying our hardest to make this 10 times (or more) better than any event we have ever had.

 

[LOE1]

lets go zinoto
lokii you already know what I want
carls, I will get my revenge!
shoutouts to chu dat in the above post lol

 

[SoulPech]

Juu and I had the opportunity to check out the venue and discuss plans, ideas, recommendations, etc. I will say that everything we were thinking that should happen is happening and also the members went above and beyond our expectations. I am confident that this won't be another Shuffle IV issue. I have nothing but good things to say about this event.

 

[Carls493]

carls, I will get my revenge!

Is that a threat!? Bring it on!

 

[.Ðempt]

A lot of the respective Melee scene is looking to come to this. Granted, if I'm able to, I'll be there.

 

[Get Low]

I hate the thought of going to a two day tourney, but I might not be able to resist this. *sigh*

 

[Ori_bro]

As long as enough is done day 1 to get people who travel out of state back home on sunday at a reasonable hour 2 day events are amazing.

 

[Mister Eric]

Money Match?

 

[DBSammy]

Money Match?

In what?

 

[Shadow the Past]

Also, anyone interested in teaming at this for Brawl? <3

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Anybody have space to house 3-4 guys?

 

[Rizner]

I'm also not fond of the anti-progression in multiple events measure. I feel like it would not benefit the tournament and might discourage a lot of high level players from coming -- not something you would want to do when also there's a possibility for seeding events for mlg. Imagine if two people made it to top 5 in melee and brawl, but then dropped out of one to continue with the other. Then they'd get lower seeding going forward into mlg if seeded.

Also it might discourage people from entering at all, and if someone dropped after knocking a ton of people out of the tournament it would kinda suck or open the door to people purposely losing because they aren't going to play further in the tournament anyways (which is not something that you want to give any incentive to do). And what would you do with the payouts? Give them their money back? Tell them they got third and they're out of extra money if they had continued to go towards first? It raises a lot of issues which could be avoided by saving time in other places.

With regards to that, I'd point towards other places shuffle 4 could have saved time -- registration, coordination between the two event TOs, and a more organized layout overall. I know these things have already been mentioned, but with pre-registration or just multiple registration setups starting on time, we would have had an extra 2 hours or so. When it comes to the TO coordination, both the PM and Brawl TO did what they could to finish their tournaments asap. It's something where they should have looked at which tournament was further from finishing and prioritized players there, and possibly delayed the other one as it didn't have as many rounds to finish. With the layout, a different venue that it seems you've already planned should be good. Pretty much having enough space for all the players to sit and a crowd to watch, plus room for people to move around is needed for things to go. Otherwise just walking around takes a while and becomes a pain, so people won't go out of their way to check the bracket and who they're playing a lot.


With those things I think you're saving plenty of time and able to not have that rule, and it's something which should be decided soon so it doesn't detract from possible attendance.

 

[OreoKirby]

Will all 6 events start the first day and end the 2nd day, or will like 3 of the events be Saturday while the final 3 are Sunday? I haven't been to a 2 day tournament yet and I'm just curious. Like if someone couldn't make it Saturday, if they could still compete Sunday.

 

[Avion]

I'm also not fond of the anti-progression in multiple events measure. I feel like it would not benefit the tournament and might discourage a lot of high level players from coming -- not something you would want to do when also there's a possibility for seeding events for mlg. Imagine if two people made it to top 5 in melee and brawl, but then dropped out of one to continue with the other. Then they'd get lower seeding going forward into mlg if seeded.

Also it might discourage people from entering at all, and if someone dropped after knocking a ton of people out of the tournament it would kinda suck or open the door to people purposely losing because they aren't going to play further in the tournament anyways (which is not something that you want to give any incentive to do). And what would you do with the payouts? Give them their money back? Tell them they got third and they're out of extra money if they had continued to go towards first? It raises a lot of issues which could be avoided by saving time in other places.

With regards to that, I'd point towards other places shuffle 4 could have saved time -- registration, coordination between the two event TOs, and a more organized layout overall. I know these things have already been mentioned, but with pre-registration or just multiple registration setups starting on time, we would have had an extra 2 hours or so. When it comes to the TO coordination, both the PM and Brawl TO did what they could to finish their tournaments asap. It's something where they should have looked at which tournament was further from finishing and prioritized players there, and possibly delayed the other one as it didn't have as many rounds to finish. With the layout, a different venue that it seems you've already planned should be good. Pretty much having enough space for all the players to sit and a crowd to watch, plus room for people to move around is needed for things to go. Otherwise just walking around takes a while and becomes a pain, so people won't go out of their way to check the bracket and who they're playing a lot.


With those things I think you're saving plenty of time and able to not have that rule, and it's something which should be decided soon so it doesn't detract from possible attendance.

I think you guys are great and your heart is definitely in the right place here, but I need to stress this, like, a bunch.

You're talking about a two day event, with more space, more preparation for signups, a designated TO station, a microphone, and several experienced volunteers willing to lend a hand with organizational duties. You've understood and addressed all the real reasons why things were so drawn out last time. The "anti-Chudat" measure you're talking about here is not only unnecessary, it is also likely to seriously rub the community the wrong way. Apex has never had such a rule, and it boasts singles and doubles, with pools, for both Melee and Brawl, and now PM, and while they do have preregistration and make their pools beforehand, it's also a national level tournament with attendance capping 300 in every event (now in the 400 and 500 range). Shuffle IV had like, a tenth of that number.

We know that nothing "needs to be done" about people entering multiple events. What "needs to be done" is planning, preparation, and coordinated effort from designated staff and volunteers, which I'm absolutely certain you guys have now. So, relax. Save the draconian measures for when you actually need them. :\

I think there is some misunderstanding/miscommunication going on. Don't worry about 'draconian measures' or take any of this to mean that people aren't allowed to enter multiple events. Of course people can play in multiple tournaments; we want everyone to have the best time possible. What I said exactly was this, and I meant it:

This issue arose last time so we're defnitely aware of it; no worries, we are working on an ideal solution to prevent bottlenecking while not punishing skilled players.

No measures are in place yet. People are not barred from entering multiple events. We are certainly not going to punish players who have the skill to make it far enough for this to even become an issue. We are simply working on figuring out how to best handle two groups of three concurrent tournaments and prevent the whole Chudat situation from arising again (by the way, I'd like to apologize to Chudat if it seems like we are blaming you - we aren't - you just happen to be a great example of the bottlenecking issue in the last tournament). We all know there were a lot of inefficiencies present in Shuffle IV that led to wasted time (registration, match calling) and those have been or are being addressed. That being said, bottlenecking isn't just about finishing on time. Nobody likes waiting for an hour before they actually get to play another match because of a bottleneck. For example, perhaps players participating in multiple events shouldn't play consecutive matches in a single tournament when other tournaments have matches available to them as well, to balance things out. This happened at Shuffle IV, with some key players playing 2-3 consecutive matches in a single tournament before playing their matches in the others, and leaving the other brackets at a standstill for for ~30 minutes. Maybe we will simply direct players better so they know which matches to play and in which order, instead of calling out all their matches and letting them pick.

Like I said, nothing is set in stone, we are just discussing ideas. There is no need to worry. We have the interest of the community at the forefront of our planning and are not going to do anything that will upset a lot of people. Nobody is being forced to drop out of tournaments or being prevented from entering multiple tournaments. We are just trying to make sure things run smoothly and efficiently and are discussing possible solutions.

 

[Avion]

Will all 6 events start the first day and end the 2nd day, or will like 3 of the events be Saturday while the final 3 are Sunday? I haven't been to a 2 day tournament yet and I'm just curious. Like if someone couldn't make it Saturday, if they could still compete Sunday.

Sunday we only have the building until 5 PM, so it will be more of a continuation and wrap-up of everything that began Saturday. You can still come out Sunday to play some friendlies and such, but if all goes as planned, we will wrap up doubles and begin singles on Saturday, and finish singles on Sunday.

 

[Rizner]

I think there is some misunderstanding/miscommunication going on. Don't worry about 'draconian measures' or take any of this to mean that people aren't allowed to enter multiple events. Of course people can play in multiple tournaments; we want everyone to have the best time possible. What I said exactly was this, and I meant it:



No measures are in place yet. People are not barred from entering multiple events. We are certainly not going to punish players who have the skill to make it far enough for this to even become an issue. We are simply working on figuring out how to best handle two groups of three concurrent tournaments and prevent the whole Chudat situation from arising again (by the way, I'd like to apologize to Chudat if it seems like we are blaming you - we aren't - you just happen to be a great example of the bottlenecking issue in the last tournament). We all know there were a lot of inefficiencies present in Shuffle IV that led to wasted time (registration, match calling) and those have been or are being addressed. That being said, bottlenecking isn't just about finishing on time. Nobody likes waiting for an hour before they actually get to play another match because of a bottleneck. For example, perhaps players participating in multiple events shouldn't play consecutive matches in a single tournament when other tournaments have matches available to them as well, to balance things out. This happened at Shuffle IV, with some key players playing 2-3 consecutive matches in a single tournament before playing their matches in the others, and leaving the other brackets at a standstill for for ~30 minutes. Maybe we will simply direct players better so they know which matches to play and in which order, instead of calling out all their matches and letting them pick.

Like I said, nothing is set in stone, we are just discussing ideas. There is no need to worry. We have the interest of the community at the forefront of our planning and are not going to do anything that will upset a lot of people. Nobody is being forced to drop out of tournaments or being prevented from entering multiple tournaments. We are just trying to make sure things run smoothly and efficiently and are discussing possible solutions.

That makes sense and I apologize if I came off rough. I was mostly responding to:

PLEASE NOTE: Due to issues last year, something needs to be done about people entering into all competitions and bottle necking progress (i.e. if one player who is good at Brawl 1v1 and 2v2 as well as Melee 1v1 and 2v2 gets to the top 16 for both side of the bracket, 4 tournaments will be hinged on one player. A possible suggestion is to still allow people to register for as many as they want, but if they make it far enough they will have to select only two tourneys to continue on in.

I just wanted to give my input on that suggestion and vote against it, with the reasons I had stated. Thank you for the more detailed response.

 

[gg NoMeow]

Will all 6 events start the first day and end the 2nd day, or will like 3 of the events be Saturday while the final 3 are Sunday? I haven't been to a 2 day tournament yet and I'm just curious. Like if someone couldn't make it Saturday, if they could still compete Sunday.

All 6 events will start Saturday, with Melee singles and Brawl singles concluding on sunday (we are planning to tear down some stations and turn the venue into a big stage with projector to watch the finals, hypeee).*

*All subject to change.

 

[Drephen]

ESI is a pretty cool group

 

[Esports Initiative]

I think I'm still owed $40-something from the last tournament.......If it makes it easier i could just do free entry for this one

Hey Drephen,

Shoot me a message to my personal email and I will get it sorted out for you by tonight.

Amar.karamali@gmail.com

 

[SoulPech]

Hey Drephen,

Shoot me a message to my personal email and I will get it sorted out for you by tonight.

Amar.karamali@gmail.com

I know you guys have a facebook page. I cant seem to find it with my horrible search skills. Can you please link your ESI Facebook Page?

 

[sneakytako]

Dr. X and Rizner have pretty much laid out most of the concerns, so I'm just going to list some suggestions to make the tournament run smoother:

1.) Registration - This took way too much time, even for an event with multiple events excluding smash. First and foremost the venue registration and the events registration should be segregated so that when venue registration is complete, the staff can move to assist registration for events smoothly. Also pre-registration helps a lot.

2.) TO's and Brackets - Another thing about Shuffle IV that slowed it down was how the TO/Bracket for melee and brawl was being handled in one area. It was very difficult to report matches, and then find out who you were playing next. Separate melee and brawl TOs into different areas of the venue. Treat these games as two totally different events, do not consolidate them as smash.

3.) Space - I'm not going to belittle any of the other events, but it running two 30+ man brackets in the space that was available last time was too little space. You can't move through to get to your station, you can't move through to report your matches, or to look at the bracket. We need more space to run this tournament, IE run less games or put the other games in a different room (LOL, P4, etc.)

4.) Calling Out Matches - As I explained above it was very difficult to find out what matches were happening. Have several TO's be in charge of making sure people are playing matches and know who they are playing next. Delegating people who are familiar with each scene will help identity players and assist them on finding their next opponent. Also label your setups so that you can designate who plays where so the TO's have an easier time find out who is playing and who isn't.

5.) Scheduling - Obviously running 3 concurrent events with people entering all 3 events is difficult. I would consider changing the order of tournaments to not run both doubles tournaments at the same time. The reason is two fold;

a.) Doubles requires 4 people to be available to play to start a match

b.) Doubles requires half the number of setups to run a tournament.

By running one singles event and one doubles event (EX Melee doubles/Brawl Singles) first, you allow for less people overlapping as opposed to running two simultaneous doubles tournaments, and use your setups more efficiently. The downside of doing this is that the singles event will complain that they didn't get to warm up, but w/e.

Also, you should never start two events at the same time. You should stagger your events so that you an complete a few rounds of one event before starting the next event. That way you can complete the first 2 rounds of a tournament with little hassle (1R winners, 1R losers), which is the part of the tournament that takes the most time. If you prioritize the first 2 rounds of each event, the only bottleneck that will occur will be in the later rounds of the tournament were less people will be playing, at the same time starting a new event with more people.

I'll probably think of more stuff, but this is what came to mind.

EDIT: AZ THIS NEW FORUM LAYOUT SUCKS! EVEN I'M TL:DR TO PROOFREAD MY OWN POST!

 

[jerry121212]

I live about an hour from Columbus so my friends and I willl probably be able to attend this. This'll be my first tournament though so I have some questions

What kind of attendance are you expecting? Shuffle IV was 100 (according to the website), so will this be about the same? More?

I have no expectations of doing well, but are we going to get crushed? We have no experience playing competitively so I'm not sure how far playing at home with buddies is going to take us.

If I bring a Gamecube, a copy of melee, but no tv, will I still get the $5 off?

Thanks

 

[SoulPech]

oh hey. You're the guy that made the Reddit post. I responded to it

 

[Avion]

Dr. X and Rizner have pretty much laid out most of the concerns, so I'm just going to list some suggestions to make the tournament run smoother:

1.) Registration - This took way too much time, even for an event with multiple events excluding smash. First and foremost the venue registration and the events registration should be segregated so that when venue registration is complete, the staff can move to assist registration for events smoothly. Also pre-registration helps a lot.

2.) TO's and Brackets - Another thing about Shuffle IV that slowed it down was how the TO/Bracket for melee and brawl was being handled in one area. It was very difficult to report matches, and then find out who you were playing next. Separate melee and brawl TOs into different areas of the venue. Treat these games as two totally different events, do not consolidate them as smash.

3.) Space - I'm not going to belittle any of the other events, but it running two 30+ man brackets in the space that was available last time was too little space. You can't move through to get to your station, you can't move through to report your matches, or to look at the bracket. We need more space to run this tournament, IE run less games or put the other games in a different room (LOL, P4, etc.)

4.) Calling Out Matches - As I explained above it was very difficult to find out what matches were happening. Have several TO's be in charge of making sure people are playing matches and know who they are playing next. Delegating people who are familiar with each scene will help identity players and assist them on finding their next opponent. Also label your setups so that you can designate who plays where so the TO's have an easier time find out who is playing and who isn't.

5.) Scheduling - Obviously running 3 concurrent events with people entering all 3 events is difficult. I would consider changing the order of tournaments to not run both doubles tournaments at the same time. The reason is two fold;

a.) Doubles requires 4 people to be available to play to start a match

b.) Doubles requires half the number of setups to run a tournament.

By running one singles event and one doubles event (EX Melee doubles/Brawl Singles) first, you allow for less people overlapping as opposed to running two simultaneous doubles tournaments, and use your setups more efficiently. The downside of doing this is that the singles event will complain that they didn't get to warm up, but w/e.

Also, you should never start two events at the same time. You should stagger your events so that you an complete a few rounds of one event before starting the next event. That way you can complete the first 2 rounds of a tournament with little hassle (1R winners, 1R losers), which is the part of the tournament that takes the most time. If you prioritize the first 2 rounds of each event, the only bottleneck that will occur will be in the later rounds of the tournament were less people will be playing, at the same time starting a new event with more people.

I'll probably think of more stuff, but this is what came to mind.

EDIT: AZ THIS NEW FORUM LAYOUT SUCKS! EVEN I'M TL:DR TO PROOFREAD MY OWN POST!

1-4: Already taken care of.

5: Noted and will be discussed next meeting. Thanks for the advice!

I live about an hour from Columbus so my friends and I willl probably be able to attend this. This'll be my first tournament though so I have some questions

What kind of attendance are you expecting? Shuffle IV was 100 (according to the website), so will this be about the same? More?

I have no expectations of doing well, but are we going to get crushed? We have no experience playing competitively so I'm not sure how far playing at home with buddies is going to take us.

If I bring a Gamecube, a copy of melee, but no tv, will I still get the $5 off?

Thanks

In order:

We are expecting about that or more. We are certainly preparing for more. But it definitely won't be small.

If it's your first tourney, you will probably not get far. There are special cases, but the first-timers or generally inexperienced are generally like 30% of entrants by my estimates. HOWEVER we are doing pools, so for you entry you are still going to be able to play ~5 full matches against other players, guaranteed - more if you make it into the bracket. Plus, people are always playing friendlies, money matches, and more. There are plenty of opportunities to play and have a good time. Even the pros are (generally) really nice and will give you pointers

Yes, you will still get the $5 off. Please bring a memory card with the save as well!

Thanks for your interest and hope to see you there!

 

[Jiano]

I keel j00

 

[TheKiest]

Dr. X and Rizner have pretty much laid out most of the concerns, so I'm just going to list some suggestions to make the tournament run smoother:

1.) Registration - This took way too much time, even for an event with multiple events excluding smash. First and foremost the venue registration and the events registration should be segregated so that when venue registration is complete, the staff can move to assist registration for events smoothly. Also pre-registration helps a lot.

2.) TO's and Brackets - Another thing about Shuffle IV that slowed it down was how the TO/Bracket for melee and brawl was being handled in one area. It was very difficult to report matches, and then find out who you were playing next. Separate melee and brawl TOs into different areas of the venue. Treat these games as two totally different events, do not consolidate them as smash.

3.) Space - I'm not going to belittle any of the other events, but it running two 30+ man brackets in the space that was available last time was too little space. You can't move through to get to your station, you can't move through to report your matches, or to look at the bracket. We need more space to run this tournament, IE run less games or put the other games in a different room (LOL, P4, etc.)

4.) Calling Out Matches - As I explained above it was very difficult to find out what matches were happening. Have several TO's be in charge of making sure people are playing matches and know who they are playing next. Delegating people who are familiar with each scene will help identity players and assist them on finding their next opponent. Also label your setups so that you can designate who plays where so the TO's have an easier time find out who is playing and who isn't.

5.) Scheduling - Obviously running 3 concurrent events with people entering all 3 events is difficult. I would consider changing the order of tournaments to not run both doubles tournaments at the same time. The reason is two fold;

a.) Doubles requires 4 people to be available to play to start a match

b.) Doubles requires half the number of setups to run a tournament.

By running one singles event and one doubles event (EX Melee doubles/Brawl Singles) first, you allow for less people overlapping as opposed to running two simultaneous doubles tournaments, and use your setups more efficiently. The downside of doing this is that the singles event will complain that they didn't get to warm up, but w/e.

Also, you should never start two events at the same time. You should stagger your events so that you an complete a few rounds of one event before starting the next event. That way you can complete the first 2 rounds of a tournament with little hassle (1R winners, 1R losers), which is the part of the tournament that takes the most time. If you prioritize the first 2 rounds of each event, the only bottleneck that will occur will be in the later rounds of the tournament were less people will be playing, at the same time starting a new event with more people.

I'll probably think of more stuff, but this is what came to mind.

EDIT: AZ THIS NEW FORUM LAYOUT SUCKS! EVEN I'M TL:DR TO PROOFREAD MY OWN POST!

 

[TheKiest]

Sigh... so as "Commander TO" I guess I'll give my "insight". Which I expect will be ignored. The following quotes will have my responses in BOLD in the following quotes

I think there is some misunderstanding/miscommunication going on. Don't worry about 'draconian measures' or take any of this to mean that people aren't allowed to enter multiple events. Of course people can play in multiple tournaments; we want everyone to have the best time possible. What I said exactly was this, and I meant it:



No measures are in place yet. People are not barred from entering multiple events. We are certainly not going to punish players who have the skill to make it far enough for this to even become an issue. We are simply working on figuring out how to best handle two groups of three concurrent tournaments and prevent the whole Chudat situation from arising again (by the way, I'd like to apologize to Chudat if it seems like we are blaming you - we aren't - you just happen to be a great example of the bottlenecking issue in the last tournament). We all know there were a lot of inefficiencies present in Shuffle IV that led to wasted time (registration, match calling) and those have been or are being addressed. That being said, bottlenecking isn't just about finishing on time. Nobody likes waiting for an hour before they actually get to play another match because of a bottleneck. For example, perhaps players participating in multiple events shouldn't play consecutive matches in a single tournament when other tournaments have matches available to them as well, to balance things out. This happened at Shuffle IV, with some key players playing 2-3 consecutive matches in a single tournament before playing their matches in the others, and leaving the other brackets at a standstill for for ~30 minutes. Maybe we will simply direct players better so they know which matches to play and in which order, instead of calling out all their matches and letting them pick.
Honestly, the best solution to this is too... give two stations to the player most likely to bottleneck. So in Chudat's case... he would be by three TVs: One for Brawl, One for Melee, and One for ProjM. Since he wants in all three events, he is responsible for NEVER LEAVING THIS AREA. Then the TOs can just send players his way. This also solves the issue if "multiple Chudats" enter the event.

Like I said, nothing is set in stone, we are just discussing ideas. There is no need to worry. We have the interest of the community at the forefront of our planning and are not going to do anything that will upset a lot of people. Nobody is being forced to drop out of tournaments or being prevented from entering multiple tournaments. We are just trying to make sure things run smoothly and efficiently and are discussing possible solutions.

Saying things like this is good and all.... but you need to respond with HOW you plan on doing this. Otherwise, these words are empty and meaningless.

Dr. X and Rizner have pretty much laid out most of the concerns, so I'm just going to list some suggestions to make the tournament run smoother:

1.) Registration - This took way too much time, even for an event with multiple events excluding smash. First and foremost the venue registration and the events registration should be segregated so that when venue registration is complete, the staff can move to assist registration for events smoothly. Also pre-registration helps a lot.
@Sneaky: You must remember that as an "official club", they have to take in more info than usual.
@ESI TOs: You also have to TRAIN YOUR PEOPLE!!!! Before I ran my first OU tourne back in 2004, I had 2 people learn the bracket maker. The biggest (and most important issue) is that NO ONE ON YOUR STAFF KNEW WHAT TO DO!!! I constantly heard the response of "Ask Sam ." This is unexcusable. This can be easily solved by doing a practice run. Just do a tournament among your club, even if it's 5 memebers. The point is to just practice run the tourne progress. Think about it... if good players are good from praticing then how are good TOs good? Again the same method.
LoL has spoiled you because the game is designed around Esports. But running the best LoL event does not make you the best TO! The best TO can make an event out of ANYTHING!

2.) TO's and Brackets - Another thing about Shuffle IV that slowed it down was how the TO/Bracket for melee and brawl was being handled in one area. It was very difficult to report matches, and then find out who you were playing next. Separate melee and brawl TOs into different areas of the venue. Treat these games as two totally different events, do not consolidate them as smash.
Yes and no... from my experience. If the tourne is ran by one individual... that person is unaware of other events. If the all events are ran by a group, then there is mis-communication. I blame TIO for this lack of feature, but TIO is terrible when it comes to multiple events. To solve this problem... yes multiple TOs are required. Yes multiple Computers are required. What is needed for sure... is a way to merge the results (whether it is manual or through a "merge bracket program"... whcih currently does not exist.)


3.) Space - I'm not going to belittle any of the other events, but it running two 30+ man brackets in the space that was available last time was too little space. You can't move through to get to your station, you can't move through to report your matches, or to look at the bracket. We need more space to run this tournament, IE run less games or put the other games in a different room (LOL, P4, etc.)
Space is irrelevant as long as the matches being played are at each station. This can be enforced if need be. However, it sounds like this next event won't be merged with a different event.


4.) Calling Out Matches - As I explained above it was very difficult to find out what matches were happening. Have several TO's be in charge of making sure people are playing matches and know who they are playing next. Delegating people who are familiar with each scene will help identity players and assist them on finding their next opponent. Also label your setups so that you can designate who plays where so the TO's have an easier time find out who is playing and who isn't.
I agree with this but must add TheKiest's technique: call matches on deck as seriously as the matches to be played. This saves minute of time.

5.) Scheduling - Obviously running 3 concurrent events with people entering all 3 events is difficult. I would consider changing the order of tournaments to not run both doubles tournaments at the same time. The reason is two fold;

a.) Doubles requires 4 people to be available to play to start a match

b.) Doubles requires half the number of setups to run a tournament.

By running one singles event and one doubles event (EX Melee doubles/Brawl Singles) first, you allow for less people overlapping as opposed to running two simultaneous doubles tournaments, and use your setups more efficiently. The downside of doing this is that the singles event will complain that they didn't get to warm up, but w/e.

Also, you should never start two events at the same time. You should stagger your events so that you an complete a few rounds of one event before starting the next event. That way you can complete the first 2 rounds of a tournament with little hassle (1R winners, 1R losers), which is the part of the tournament that takes the most time. If you prioritize the first 2 rounds of each event, the only bottleneck that will occur will be in the later rounds of the tournament were less people will be playing, at the same time starting a new event with more people.

I'll probably think of more stuff, but this is what came to mind.
I agree with the stagger, it's important. The only problem with doubles with singles in a diff event is streaming purposes. Like any tournament, you need to decide before hand "What is the focus of my tournament?" If it is Brawl, never show Melee on stream. And vice versa. It's a difficuly choice, but one you must make for events this large.

EDIT: AZ THIS NEW FORUM LAYOUT SUCKS! EVEN I'M TL:DR TO PROOFREAD MY OWN POST!
I agree, not a fan of the new format.

With all of this said... it is all meaningless because the one thing I can't see is this organization's "soul".
This is important because a good group will show its strengths so well, that the weakness ARE IGNORED. Look at OUGA or Smahsfield or the Ohio God Kais or the MI scene. Yes there are flaws, but one has to nitpick in order to find them, and that's because the essence of those groups are showed very clearly and strongly.

So to ESI I ask of you: What do you want to be for the smash scene? Does everyone in your organization agree with this? How are you conveying this image to the FGC? What do your events give that other events don't? (Besides free drinks/"MLG" sponsorship?)

The thing about "soul" is that once you;ve established it.. you can just mention YOUR name and people will come.

If I hosted an "OUGA" event, I would have people from several states away willing to come. And it's not because of the competition, and it's now because of the people there, it's because of that "soul"/"atmosphere."

If ESI can prove this to me and everyone else, then they will never have a "bad" tournament again.



Then again... I'm a washed up ex TO.

 

[Esports Initiative]

This event will be preregistration only.

Click here to register. PRE-REGISTRATION ONLY.

Click here for the Facebook event page.

 

[Esports Initiative]

1. Me and LOE1 are taking teams at this. We will finally get to team
2. Sam, I will be available for seeding help and stuff again. I'm glad you guys are going at it again, we need more TOs especially with Smash 4 coming around the corner.
3. What does it mean to be sponsored by MLG? I came into the smash scene before the MLG days so I have no idea what that means lol.

EDIT: Just noticed this is a two day event. Time is more than likely not gonna be an issue. We in there.

Zinoto, I was the other TO, and I talked to Chonce and he said we would have a good amount of support for seeding. However, I will also be reviewing 6 weeks of tournament results to get a good idea of the scene myself. That way I don't have to rely on you, and only ask input for a few specific people. Glad you're so excited to come!

Brett

 

[sneakytako]

On point 1 about registration, simply adding another person who's taking venue money separate from the event money would have sped things up significantly. Also making another table for venue registration would have helped.

Also Kiest knows what hes talking about.

 

[Shadow the Past]

This event will be preregistration only.

Click here to register.

Click here for the Facebook event page.

You might want to make the pre-reg link stand out a bit more so everyone knows it's required to preregister. It's currently kinda hidden among the other links. I'd make a little sub section for prereg alone.

 

[Esports Initiative]

Sigh... so as "Commander TO" I guess I'll give my "insight". Which I expect will be ignored. The following quotes will have my responses in BOLD in the following quotes


Saying things like this is good and all.... but you need to respond with HOW you plan on doing this. Otherwise, these words are empty and meaningless.






With all of this said... it is all meaningless because the one thing I can't see is this organization's "soul".
This is important because a good group will show its strengths so well, that the weakness ARE IGNORED. Look at OUGA or Smahsfield or the Ohio God Kais or the MI scene. Yes there are flaws, but one has to nitpick in order to find them, and that's because the essence of those groups are showed very clearly and strongly.

So to ESI I ask of you: What do you want to be for the smash scene? Does everyone in your organization agree with this? How are you conveying this image to the FGC? What do your events give that other events don't? (Besides free drinks/"MLG" sponsorship?)

The thing about "soul" is that once you;ve established it.. you can just mention YOUR name and people will come.

If I hosted an "OUGA" event, I would have people from several states away willing to come. And it's not because of the competition, and it's now because of the people there, it's because of that "soul"/"atmosphere."

If ESI can prove this to me and everyone else, then they will never have a "bad" tournament again.



Then again... I'm a washed up ex TO.

To start off my response, I want to say that we are literally working around the clock on making this event memorable and incredible for all parties involved.

Personally, I'm working on website functionality, planning the layout of the venue, registration and graphics. I put at least 2-3 hours a day into improving, brainstorming and optimizing the event. Shuffle IV was something we were absolutely not prepared for, and that's exactly we're working this hard to make this event a success. We've been meeting with local TOs, taking questions, taking advice, working so hard to make this a worthwhile event. We're making CRT runs every chance we get. Some of us spend literally all of our time outside of class and work on this event, mainly because we know how critical it is that we succeed.

What do you want to be for the smash scene?

Currently, we are aiming to be an organization that is known for holding high quality events that further eSports as a whole in the Midwest/Columbus Area. And that absolutely includes the Smash scene. I'm personally new to the scene, but it excites me beyond explanation. The way people come to all of these events, spend all this time together, and the sense of friendship that is displayed is just amazing. So I guess my answer is this, we want to be a campus group that puts on quality high scale tournaments for the Midwest and Ohio area, and making it so that these are enjoyable experiences for Smash players around the Midwest.

Does everyone in your organization agree with this?

Absolutely. Our organization is just made up of a bunch of college students who love video games, competitive games and eSports culture. And we're all devoted to making it better.

How are you conveying this image to the FGC?

We plan to convey this image to the FGC by showing that we are passionate people. If you're on a campus and you choose to be involved in a group that puts on events, it must mean something to you. As lame as it may sound to some people, I just felt empty over Christmas not having things to do for ESI. We love this and we live for this. Walking through the venue with the Columbus Veteran TOs, I was literally jumping around because of how excited I am. I'm not even a Smash player, and I'm hyped out of my mind for February 22nd.

What do your events give that other events don't?

I know that you mentioned "besides" "MLG sponsorship", but that cannot be discounted. This will be one of the first Smash events in a long time that MLG is officially throwing support behind. That is something that we're extremely excited about. Another thing that cannot be discounted is that we're a charity organization, and we're hoping for this event to be largely successful so that we can make a large scale donation to Nationwide Childrens Hospital. This venue that we have is insane. We have 90/60 internet for streaming, tons of power, a loading dock, dedicated bathrooms, we will be the only ones in the building, a few rooms for friendlies, this place is perfect! And we just have the desire to make run the most amazing events ever. The fact that I'm chasing CRTs day in and day out, and I get stoked when I walk into Goodwill and see a baller CRT. We're so committed to this event, and we can't wait for everyone to see what we're preparing.


As a response to the soul question, as stated earlier, we are literally putting hundreds and hundreds of man hours into this event, and it's still over a month away. We're thinking of every possible problem, and finding every possible solution. Personally, I had an entire notebook of problems that I took down after Shuffle IV, and I did this the day after the event. A lot of the problems, even at this point have become non issues, especially registration. Things like match calling, nametags, the implementation of a info desk, a training session for the volunteers, wristbands, getting the venue the night before to setup, collecting cell phone numbers for match calling, limiting friendlies to specified rooms, using proper referees to keep the tourney running smoothly, implementing live updating brackets, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. This tourney is literally my life until the day it happens, and I know I'm not just speaking for myself. After this event, there will be no questions left.

Thanks,
Derek