Shrine Maiden of Paradise ~ Reimu Hakurei (Touhou Project)

[zriL]

Yup, well said. Given that every prior theory to date re: Reimu's possible inclusion has been wrong, the bar for something to be a credible theory should be set very high, and this doesn't quite clear it.

You could say that for every character that's not yet in the game, yet two of them will be in this FP anyways. So I'd say this argument is irrelevant. Everyone's chance is low anyways, I don't think we're discussing that. The point is these glitches can only be positive for Reimu's chances since it tends to favor her more than others, but that's it.

 

[SharkLord]

So

I'm planning out an idea for a Touhou metroidvania in the vein of Luna Nights. Thing is, I can't decide on a main character. There's a lot of candidates, and I'm having some trouble making a decision. Decided to come here for some brainstorming. So far I have:

• Reisen - Was the first idea, but now my candidate list is growing. Would be sent on a mission by Eirin or something, could collect different gadgets and bullet types for the little bunny gun.
• Sumireko - As an outsider to Gensokyo, there's a lot of room to explore. Would have a lot of psychic powers to mess around with.
• Yamame - A recent random idea. Just randomly thought "Hey, what if..." because she has the little spooder powers.

So yeah. I'm open to some more suggestions.

 

[GolisoPower]

So

I'm planning out an idea for a Touhou metroidvania in the vein of Luna Nights. Thing is, I can't decide on a main character. There's a lot of candidates, and I'm having some trouble making a decision. Decided to come here for some brainstorming. So far I have:

• Reisen - Was the first idea, but now my candidate list is growing. Would be sent on a mission by Eirin or something, could collect different gadgets and bullet types for the little bunny gun.
• Sumireko - As an outsider to Gensokyo, there's a lot of room to explore. Would have a lot of psychic powers to mess around with.
• Yamame - A recent random idea. Just randomly thought "Hey, what if..." because she has the little spooder powers.

So yeah. I'm open to some more suggestions.

How about Keiki? IIRC, she seems rather interested in the rest of Gensokyo, or more specifically humans in general, after the events of WBaWC, and you could give her a mechanic based on her idols, almost like Pikmin or Oddworld.

 

[Lyncario]

So

I'm planning out an idea for a Touhou metroidvania in the vein of Luna Nights. Thing is, I can't decide on a main character. There's a lot of candidates, and I'm having some trouble making a decision. Decided to come here for some brainstorming. So far I have:

• Reisen - Was the first idea, but now my candidate list is growing. Would be sent on a mission by Eirin or something, could collect different gadgets and bullet types for the little bunny gun.
• Sumireko - As an outsider to Gensokyo, there's a lot of room to explore. Would have a lot of psychic powers to mess around with.
• Yamame - A recent random idea. Just randomly thought "Hey, what if..." because she has the little spooder powers.

So yeah. I'm open to some more suggestions.

Maybe Nazrin, in something kinda like the Great Cave Offensive in Kirby Super Star? Exploring Gensokyo to find treasures would be pretty nice in my opinion.

 

[Soulor]

I mentioned Reisen for one a while ago, but I still think it could work for her. Guns and Lunarians, all that.

Now that I think about it, I think Orin would be another interesting choice. The underground seems interesting enough and there's probably still lots of untapped potential with it and the characters there to do something with.

So basically like the Shantae-vania games?
Hmm... Orin can transform into a cat...
Maybe Orin can attack with her braids lol.
... and Orin can DANCE THAT DANCE, YOU KNOW THE ONE.
Can't forget her cart and little spirits!

I think there's potential, and Orin could use the exposure.

 

[TheTuninator]

So

I'm planning out an idea for a Touhou metroidvania in the vein of Luna Nights. Thing is, I can't decide on a main character. There's a lot of candidates, and I'm having some trouble making a decision. Decided to come here for some brainstorming. So far I have:

• Reisen - Was the first idea, but now my candidate list is growing. Would be sent on a mission by Eirin or something, could collect different gadgets and bullet types for the little bunny gun.
• Sumireko - As an outsider to Gensokyo, there's a lot of room to explore. Would have a lot of psychic powers to mess around with.
• Yamame - A recent random idea. Just randomly thought "Hey, what if..." because she has the little spooder powers.

So yeah. I'm open to some more suggestions.

I'm a huuuuge fan of Sumireko, so she's got my vote! I love her character design, and the various shenanigans for her moveset in the fighting games are great.

 

[Inue Houji]

Maybe Nazrin, in something kinda like the Great Cave Offensive in Kirby Super Star? Exploring Gensokyo to find treasures would be pretty nice in my opinion.

Good idea!
Then Shou could be the "shopkeeper", giving out upgrades for collecting treasure.

No, I'm not biased at all

 

[Merengue]

If Reimu gets into Smash I hope her design is based on these figures

 

[7NATOR]

If Reimu gets into Smash I hope her design is based on these figures

Well I guess that begs a question though (And One I've had in mind for awhile)

Would Reimu have her Midriff exposed? From what I've seen from Lurking in Touhou threads, the Fan Material does heavily feature her outfit having an exposed midriff, but the Official Material usually has the White Undershirt thing, which I believe is more traditional version of the outfit that Reimu wears, though there apparently have been official Material that went with the exposed midriff

I guess that's just part of the problem with Touhou characters not having consistent designs and being heavily fan based. but in anycase, I'm unsure if these designs would be the basis just based of that. yes

 

[perfectchaos83]

Well I guess that begs a question though (And One I've had in mind for awhile)

Would Reimu have her Midriff exposed? From what I've seen from Lurking in Touhou threads, the Fan Material does heavily feature her outfit having an exposed midriff, but the Official Material usually has the White Undershirt thing, which I believe is more traditional version of the outfit that Reimu wears, though there apparently have been official Material that went with the exposed midriff

I guess that's just part of the problem with Touhou characters not having consistent designs and being heavily fan based. but in anycase, I'm unsure if these designs would be the basis just based of that. yes

I have no doubt she'd have a covered belly since that's how she's typically designed with.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Well I guess that begs a question though (And One I've had in mind for awhile)

Would Reimu have her Midriff exposed? From what I've seen from Lurking in Touhou threads, the Fan Material does heavily feature her outfit having an exposed midriff, but the Official Material usually has the White Undershirt thing, which I believe is more traditional version of the outfit that Reimu wears, though there apparently have been official Material that went with the exposed midriff

I guess that's just part of the problem with Touhou characters not having consistent designs and being heavily fan based. but in anycase, I'm unsure if these designs would be the basis just based of that. yes

Well, if we're going by official material it's hard to decide on whether or not her belly is covered cause sometimes her top were merged together into her skirt. It'll be easier to understand if you compare her shrine maiden uniform to that of a Japanese schoolgirl outfit.

 

[SharkLord]

Well I guess that begs a question though (And One I've had in mind for awhile)

Would Reimu have her Midriff exposed? From what I've seen from Lurking in Touhou threads, the Fan Material does heavily feature her outfit having an exposed midriff, but the Official Material usually has the White Undershirt thing, which I believe is more traditional version of the outfit that Reimu wears, though there apparently have been official Material that went with the exposed midriff

I guess that's just part of the problem with Touhou characters not having consistent designs and being heavily fan based. but in anycase, I'm unsure if these designs would be the basis just based of that. yes

Maybe. It's pretty common in fan portrayals, but it doesn't happen in the official games. If Sakurai makes a Smash-original design, I could see it happening, but it'd probably stick with the official Touhou canon.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I imagine if Reimu got into Smash, she'd get the Solid Snake treatment: Her Smash design being a bit of a mishmash of all the little design differences from her other games, even if there ain't that many to go off of in this case. At least elements from other games.

 

[GolisoPower]

Yeah, Sakurai seems like the kind of guy who'd take a blend of some stuff from the official work while still adding his own twist to it. Maybe blend a bit of the looks from ZUN, Twilight Frontier, and manga artworks for the facial features, too.

 

[Arctiq]

One question I've got is about the music. Would Zun be the type of guy to allow all of his music to be in Smash?
It fills me with excitement to think that this might be the highest amount of tracks to get in DLC so far.

 

[Merengue]

One question I've got is about the music. Would Zun be the type of guy to allow all of his music to be in Smash?
It fills me with excitement to think that this might be the highest amount of tracks to get in DLC so far.

I hope so! If only Reimu would be in Smash...

 

[SharkLord]

One question I've got is about the music. Would Zun be the type of guy to allow all of his music to be in Smash?
It fills me with excitement to think that this might be the highest amount of tracks to get in DLC so far.

Oh yeah, ZUN would give them the keys to the vault and go back to downing his 137th beer mug of the day. The real issue would be the filesize; They can only squeeze so many songs into that pack, even if there aren't multiple versions of the same song. I'd imagine the pack would have about 30-50 tracks, if we're being realistic.

 

[Merengue]

I imagine if Reimu got into Smash, she'd get the Solid Snake treatment: Her Smash design being a bit of a mishmash of all the little design differences from her other games, even if there ain't that many to go off of in this case. At least elements from other games.

I'd prefer her face to be based on the figures, especially the first one. Also, I'd like it if her midriff wasn't exposed. I really don't want to be reminded of Byleth again.

 

[GolisoPower]

Oh yeah, ZUN would give them the keys to the vault and go back to downing his 137th beer mug of the day. The real issue would be the filesize; They can only squeeze so many songs into that pack, even if there aren't multiple versions of the same song. I'd imagine the pack would have about 30-50 tracks, if we're being realistic.

This makes me wonder, though: how big are the Touhou songs on average? Because if we're gonna compare this to, say, Terry's song selection, then we could probably fit in a lot more than we think we can.

 

[TheTuninator]

One question I've got is about the music. Would Zun be the type of guy to allow all of his music to be in Smash?
It fills me with excitement to think that this might be the highest amount of tracks to get in DLC so far.

Hahahahahahaha, oh man, the mental image of Sakurai doing the Direct and saying "all of the Touhou OST will be available in Smash, ZUN just let us have it" is so funny.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Didn’t that Doujin rumor imply some doujin circles would be involved?

meaning

We could get some vocal remixes...

 

[SharkLord]

Didn’t that Doujin rumor imply some doujin circles would be involved?

meaning

We could get some vocal remixes...

I kinda sorta really doubt a Touhou pack for FP2 would be solidified two years in advance. Best to just let leaks go.

 

[Arctiq]

Didn’t that Doujin rumor imply some doujin circles would be involved?

meaning

We could get some vocal remixes...

What was the doujin rumor? I've heard of it but I don't know the contents.

 

[Quidd Dude]

PapaGenos talked about Reimu in his new video.

Smash Leak, Rumor, and Theory Speculation AFTER Mr. Sakurai presents Pyra and Mythra - PapaGenos

Going over all the current Smash Leaks, Rumors, Theories and Speculation AFTER "Mr. Sakurai Presents Pyra and Mythra", is "Concert Leak" dead? Can "Figure T...

youtu.be

 

[Rie Sonomura]

PapaGenos talked about Reimu in his new video.

Smash Leak, Rumor, and Theory Speculation AFTER Mr. Sakurai presents Pyra and Mythra - PapaGenos

Going over all the current Smash Leaks, Rumors, Theories and Speculation AFTER "Mr. Sakurai Presents Pyra and Mythra", is "Concert Leak" dead? Can "Figure T...

youtu.be

Anyone want to give a tl;dw?

 

[Arctiq]

Anyone want to give a tl;dw?

The video is timestamped. He talks about the angie tweets and about grazing.

 

[perfectchaos83]

One question I've got is about the music. Would Zun be the type of guy to allow all of his music to be in Smash?
It fills me with excitement to think that this might be the highest amount of tracks to get in DLC so far.

ZUN does have a caveat that you shouldn't be using ripped material from his games, but given the sircumstances on what Smash is, I could see that as an exception maybe. Regardless, I do think he'd easily give them the rights to all the songs whether they are originals or remixes.

 

[SharkLord]

ZUN does have a caveat that you shouldn't be using ripped material from his games, but given the sircumstances on what Smash is, I could see that as an exception maybe. Regardless, I do think he'd easily give them the rights to all the songs whether they are originals or remixes.

Yeah, that just goes for fangames, I think. I believe that official crossovers would be fine.

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

Yeah, that just goes for fangames, I think. I believe that official crossovers would be fine.

I'm trying to think of examples where games will borrow music straight from the original Touhou game, but I'm coming up short. Most fangames do their own remixes, and most rhythm games use popular renditions. Can anyone think of a counter example? What if there are only 10-15 songs, but they're all original remixes?

 

[GolisoPower]

I'm trying to think of examples where games will borrow music straight from the original Touhou game, but I'm coming up short. Most fangames do their own remixes, and most rhythm games use popular renditions. Can anyone think of a counter example? What if there are only 10-15 songs, but they're all original remixes?

Can't say I've found any examples of games that source the music I know of on my end. As for the songs, Fatal Fury is to date the only new franchise that has the most new remixes, with 17. Only 10-15 doesn't really sound...I dunno, it seems reasonable for it being original remixes, but beating out Challenger Pack 4's album of songs with Touhou almost seems like taking a slippery candy from a baby born with auto-brewery syndrome. This does make me wonder how long it took for Sakurai to choose which songs to remix and which songs to source when making Challenger Pack 4, as well as how long it took to compose those 17 new remixes. Depending on how long it took, I'd say Sakurai can afford to aim higher.

 

[perfectchaos83]

I'm trying to think of examples where games will borrow music straight from the original Touhou game, but I'm coming up short. Most fangames do their own remixes, and most rhythm games use popular renditions. Can anyone think of a counter example? What if there are only 10-15 songs, but they're all original remixes?

Now that I got to thinking about it, the Lord of Vermilion 3 crossover may use the original music. I remember being disappointed when I first heard it thinking there'd be cool arrangements. Granted, I'm no audiophile, but they sound really damn close to the originals and it took an incredible amount of work to find these again

https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20887544

 

[Arctiq]

Can't say I've found any examples of games that source the music I know of on my end. As for the songs, Fatal Fury is to date the only new franchise that has the most new remixes, with 17. Only 10-15 doesn't really sound...I dunno, it seems reasonable for it being original remixes, but beating out Challenger Pack 4's album of songs with Touhou almost seems like taking a slippery candy from a baby born with auto-brewery syndrome. This does make me wonder how long it took for Sakurai to choose which songs to remix and which songs to source when making Challenger Pack 4, as well as how long it took to compose those 17 new remixes. Depending on how long it took, I'd say Sakurai can afford to aim higher.

I'd love if we can just get 50 boss songs. Maybe 45 regular songs and 5 new arrangements. As long as I can get Nuclear Fusion I'm happy.

 

[Commander_Alph]

PapaGenos talked about Reimu in his new video.

Smash Leak, Rumor, and Theory Speculation AFTER Mr. Sakurai presents Pyra and Mythra - PapaGenos

Going over all the current Smash Leaks, Rumors, Theories and Speculation AFTER "Mr. Sakurai Presents Pyra and Mythra", is "Concert Leak" dead? Can "Figure T...

youtu.be

I feel like him drawing a conclusion of each of the rumor he talk about always put the "the big rumored character" a lot more credit than it deserve. It always ended up like "oh, this rumor is true which could be tie into this character and their game is on switch in which rated by Cero as Z but wait there's a D version which have to be for when this character gets in because the website this and that". I know that this makes me look like a salty person but this is not the first time he did this. Like, he prefer reaching to the abyss for the most vague answer to draw conclusion from.

 

[zriL]

I feel like him drawing a conclusion of each of the rumor he talk about always put the "the big rumored character" a lot more credit than it deserve. It always ended up like "oh, this rumor is true which could be tie into this character and their game is on switch in which rated by Cero as Z but wait there's a D version which have to be for when this character gets in because the website this and that". I know that this makes me look like a salty person but this is not the first time he did this. Like, he prefer reaching to the abyss for the most vague answer to draw conclusion from.

Yeah he clearly went out of his way to find vague stuff in favor of Hayabusa, while ignoring steering projectiles fit Reimu perfectly and while Hayabusa would have to use a auto-aiming bow for which he isn't really well known. It's still interesting to see how these glitches could mean different things as I had a hard time to see anything other than Touhou in these glitches. I think Hayabusa is really reaching in the context of the glitches but he is still a decent candidate without the glitches so it's simply a small bonus to his chances.

I think Master Chief and Decidueye fit decently with the glitches, better than I thought initially, but I really don't see them happening in the first place. I don't think they would put a random pokemon as DLC, pokemons works better for base game in my opinion. Then Master Chief doesn't make sense for Nintendo from a business perpective, there is no Halo game on switch, Master Chief wouldn't really sell Smash games because Halo fans would rather play Master Chief in Halo instead of Smash, and while a Master Chief DLC would sell very well among Halo fans that own Smash, there are probably a lot of characters that would sell both DLC and games. Edit : that said, Halo being Xbox exclusive, many Halo fans don't own Switches, so there are still some of them that would buy Switches if that happened, even if they are very few, since the Halo fanbase is big, it could add up. I don't know, to me it still looks like a losing deal for Nintendo.

Speaking of business, Touhou in Smash wouldn't really be as bad as we could guess, the DLC would definitely sell not that much compared to really hype characters, especially in the west, but Touhou is one of the few franchises that could sell not only Smash games, but also Switches. Right now there is no AAA quality game that feature Reimu or Touhou in any form, especially action games, so Touhou in Smash would become literally the only one way to have that. As a Touhou fans, I know that if I hadn't already got a Switch, I would have instantly bought one, plus Smash Ultimate, on the day of the Reimu's announcement, without any hesitation. I'm probably not the only one.

 

[sessian]

Hahahahahahaha, oh man, the mental image of Sakurai doing the Direct and saying "all of the Touhou OST will be available in Smash, ZUN just let us have it" is so funny.

It'd be such a Sakurai joke. He's like "and now, here's the music list" and the screen cuts to a single image that's unreadably small because there's a couple hundred track names crammed onto it. Sakurai does an exaggerated double take, starts talking about how he asked for some music and ZUN just let him have everything.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Yeah he clearly went out of his way to find vague stuff in favor of Hayabusa, while ignoring steering projectile fits Reimu perfectly and while Hayabusa would have to use a auto-aiming bow for which he isn't really known for. It's still interesting to see how these glitches could mean different things as I had a hard time to see anything other Touhou in these glitches. I think Hayabusa is really reaching in the context of the glitches but he is still a decent candidate without the glitches so it's simply a small bonus to his chances.

Pretty much that, I remember him giving too much vouches on Geno before his return and just nonchalantly slipping him in every rumor that is not character specific (remember that he talk about TGA reveal always contained character that not only Nintendo player knows (as in considering the awards isn't Nintendo specific the livestream was bound to have PlayStation and XBOX player watching) and yet he contradict himself by what essentially Nintendo pressuring Geoff to reveal that goddamn doll). Also, about Hayabusa which i will give my opinion about, while yes he has used a bow it's not really his main weapon or even his most iconic and even then idk what connect the auto-aim bow to the D-Pit glitch other than "it's a bow and it has a homing attack (which isn't that property only Pit could have?)" And with the projectile glitch he essentially just use the piece of metal on his head as an "armor" not remembering that Terry also has something like that on one of his alt or yet all the armored character lol

 

[zriL]

Concerning Touhou music in Smash. I think he would apply the same rules as other fangames and spinoffs, meaning :

• no to tracks from original games
• yes original ZUN tracks, so he could make new arrangements of popular tracks, just for Smash (that's what happened with Undertale)
• yes to arrangements, any amount of it, so this could go very far. Though I'm not sure if they would want to put Doujin music in Smash as it would make it legally a bit more complex, while it's very easy if they make their own arrangements, plus there is the risk of leaks.

 

[Commander_Alph]

yes to arrangements, any amount of it, so this could go very far. Though I'm not sure if they would want to put Doujin music in Smash as it would make it legally a bit more complex, while it's very easy if they make their own arrangements, plus there is the risk of leaks.

My concern about this is whether or not Sakurai's composer team would be interested on the song considering that it's all up to their interest as shown by MegaMan and Castlevania, but considering that even the original game track already have those fighting game vibe there's not really a whole lot to do other than remix the PC-98 songs. Regarding Doujin composer and their remix though.. I'm not sure, I know that some of them have actually work on a music for an official Touhou game like COOL&CREATE.

 

[zriL]

My concern about this is whether or not Sakurai's composer team would be interested on the song considering that it's all up to their interest as shown by MegaMan and Castlevania, but considering that even the original game track already have those fighting game vibe there's not really a whole lot to do other than remix the PC-98 songs.

I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying they might not have ideas for Touhou remixes while Touhou is one of the most remixed thing of all time ? There is no way they aren't interested, the real question is would they do more than what they did for other games. But there is no way they don't make arrangements, remixes are basically Touhou's identity, Sakurai always makes a point of staying faithful to franchises' identity, so they would absolutely make some arrangements, this is 100% absolutely sure. Then I think there is even a composer in the smash team who's already made Touhou arrangements.

 

[Commander_Alph]

I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying they might not have ideas for Touhou remixes while Touhou is one of the most remixed thing of all time ? There is no way they aren't interested, the real question is would they do more than what they did for other games. But there is no way they don't make arrangements, remixes are basically Touhou's identity, Sakurai always make a point of staying faithful to franchises' identity, so they would absolutely make some arrangements, this is 100% absolutely sure. Then I think there is even a composer in the smash team who's already made Touhou arrangements.

Not saying they have no idea but more on "do they really want to?" I mean people complaining about Sonic not having any new remix and bragging about MegaMan and Simon having almost half of their song catalog a remix and I think this situation has been pointed before but idk where.
I think from what I could gather a song will be remixed by the composer either

1. The music is too calming and doesn't suit Smash at all (which Touhou pass this seamlessly)

2. 8-bit song is usually the target of these remixes (if we go by what we currently have and with Touhou 6 and onward the music still holds up to today's standard).

I mean there's a possibility for that to happened but again I'm looking at past results. Just saying don't be too sure about that since it will comeback to bite you on the back.