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Shrine Maiden of Paradise ~ Reimu Hakurei (Touhou Project)

zriL

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2. 8-bit song is usually the target of these remixes (if we go by what we currently have and with Touhou 6 and onward the music still holds up to today's standard).
I can't get where this comes from. For DLC alone, Persona, Banjo, ARMS, Minecraft, FF7, XBC2, FE 3H, all had remixes from non 8-bit osts. Only DQ didn't get any remixes and it actually has a lot of 8-bit, so we could actually claim the opposite of what you said.
 
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Commander_Alph

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I can't get where this comes from. For DLC alone, Persona, Banjo, ARMS, Minecraft, FF7, XBC2, FE 3H, all had remixes from non 8-bit osts.
I didn't say those 2 requirement should be filled simultaneously and for the 8-bit part I honestly don't know (might be because I pulled Mega Man and Castlevania as example) but what I'm most certain about is that it's up to the composer if they want to or not, they might pass them up because they already a perfect fit the way they are but who knows.
 

zriL

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I didn't say those 2 requirement should be filled simultaneously and for the 8-bit part I honestly don't know (might be because I pulled Mega Man and Castlevania as example) but what I'm most certain about is that it's up to the composer if they want to or not, they might pass them up because they already a perfect fit the way they are but who knows.
You can only speculate but the past shows this is already very unlikely in general, so it can only be more unlikely for Touhou given the history of the franchise. I don't really understand why you insist on supporting such a weird take when nothing actually supports it except "anything can happen".
 
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zferolie

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only recently heard the new glitch, and I know glitches don't always lead to something, this one feels very specific towards 1 thing, the ability to dash through projectiles. A new mechanic, which would be needed if Reimu got added. A fun pluasable glitch in reimus favor.

Speaking of those old DOujin leaks. Remember, Steve was in talks for like 5 years.... its POSSIBLE some talks to doujin groups started super early.

The one thing I really want to happen is if Reimu happens, that her stage has as much or MORE stage cameos then the Terry stage. There are SO MANY characters in touhou and it all makes sense for any of them to be at Hakurei Shrine watching a fight like this.
 

SharkLord

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Speaking of those old DOujin leaks. Remember, Steve was in talks for like 5 years.... its POSSIBLE some talks to doujin groups started super early.
I kinda doubt that. A large part of Steve's long negotiation period was the fact that Sakurai kept putting him off out of worry that he couldn't properly pull off his mechanics. The doujin circles wouldn't own the rights to Touhou, so they'd most likely have to wait for the talks with ZUN to finish before Nintendo started reaching out to the music groups. I don't think Reimu would need such absurd, game-changing mechanics like Steve did, and ZUN himself would be really easy to deal with, so they wouldn't need to sit on the rights to Touhou for that long.
Bottom line is, they wouldn't contact the composers that early in development.
 
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zferolie

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I kinda doubt that. A large part of Steve's long negotiation period was the fact that Sakurai kept putting him off out of worry that he couldn't properly pull off his mechanics. The doujin circles wouldn't own the rights to Touhou, so they'd most likely have to wait for the talks with ZUN to finish before Nintendo started reaching out to the music groups. I don't think Reimu would need such absurd, game-changing mechanics like Steve did, and ZUN himself would be really easy to deal with, so they wouldn't need to sit on the rights to Touhou for that long.
Bottom line is, they wouldn't contact the composers that early in development.
Hence why I said COULD. not really looking at those as proof right now. It would be hilarious if reimu got added though and lot of people start pointing at those super old leaks
 

SharkLord

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Hence why I said COULD. not really looking at those as proof right now. It would be hilarious if reimu got added though and lot of people start pointing at those super old leaks
Let's be honest, that's exactly what would happen. Everyone kept clinging to Crei-Mos and dredging up the Seven Squares list just because of Sephiroth; If we got Reimu, all those old rumors would get revived en masse.
 

zferolie

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Let's be honest, that's exactly what would happen. Everyone kept clinging to Crei-Mos and dredging up the Seven Squares list just because of Sephiroth; If we got Reimu, all those old rumors would get revived en masse.
someone will say that KOS-MOS, Crash, and Reimu leak is still true, because they confused Pyra with KOS-MOS
 

7NATOR

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I could actually see Reimu taking awhile in Negotiations

Remember that because of the fact Touhou is heavily associated with Fan content and such like that, alot of the details of the franchise are not consistent with each other. This includes stuff like Reimu's Design, how she officially be implemented in 3D, perhaps even how some of the music might go, and etc

Sakurai and Zun would need to talk about how Reimu would officially be implemented in a Game like Smash, how much would be taken from Fan concepts and officially, how her stage (Likely Hakurei Shrine) would look like, How Reimu personality would work in Smash, and etc

There's also her actual moveset, and not just what moves she would do, but how to make that all balanced. like I've sometimes said, she seems like Jigglypuff if she was focused on Projectiles. that does not sound fun to fight against, and can be very Overpowered if not implemented correctly. they need to take the time to talk about how Each of her moves would be implmented, to make sure it fits the characcter and Franchise, but that it's also fun to use and Balanced against the rest of the cast

I think the part of the negotiations that wouldn't take time would getting Zun on board. that should not take time at all to be honest
 

SharkLord

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I could actually see Reimu taking awhile in Negotiations

Remember that because of the fact Touhou is heavily associated with Fan content and such like that, alot of the details of the franchise are not consistent with each other. This includes stuff like Reimu's Design, how she officially be implemented in 3D, perhaps even how some of the music might go, and etc

Sakurai and Zun would need to talk about how Reimu would officially be implemented in a Game like Smash, how much would be taken from Fan concepts and officially, how her stage (Likely Hakurei Shrine) would look like, How Reimu personality would work in Smash, and etc

There's also her actual moveset, and not just what moves she would do, but how to make that all balanced. like I've sometimes said, she seems like Jigglypuff if she was focused on Projectiles. that does not sound fun to fight against, and can be very Overpowered if not implemented correctly. they need to take the time to talk about how Each of her moves would be implmented, to make sure it fits the characcter and Franchise, but that it's also fun to use and Balanced against the rest of the cast

I think the part of the negotiations that wouldn't take time would getting Zun on board. that should not take time at all to be honest
I don't think it would take much longer than most other series, honestly. There's still a wealth of official content to draw from, and if they're talking with the guy in charge of everything canon, it shouldn't take too long to get the details right. The moveset planning shouldn't take too long, either, and either way that would take place after the negotiations, not during it.
 
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7NATOR

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I don't think it would take much longer than most other series, honestly. There's still a wealth of official content to draw from, and if they're talking with the guy in charge of everything canon, it shouldn't take too long to get the details right. The moveset planning shouldn't take too long, either, and either way that would take place after the negotiations, not during it.
I mean

You said it yourself that part of Steve's long negotiation period was Sakurai figuring out how to implement the mechanics. Granted I don't think Reimu should have any issues to the extent of Steve

But before the characters go into Active development, they first need the actual baseline of what to create, which include all the details of the Design, moveset, stage, even music, and etc.

All of that does come after they officially get the rights to use the character, but I would still kind of consider it part of negotiations anyway. You still want to adhere to the owners wishes about how they want the character represented

And sometimes the creators do make a request of changes during the active Development, but I assume that's after they already have the baseline plan of what the detail is gonna look like

I do agree it shouldn't take much longer than other Series. I don't think it will take as long as Steve as an example, but that I do think it might take quite some time though, even with Zun being in the picture giving his requests and such. He might know everything canon, but how everything translates to Smash can still be quite a time sink. how everything specifically animates and everything Now whether it was taking as long as when these rumors starting popping up, that's up to your Interpretation
 

GolisoPower

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I kinda doubt that. A large part of Steve's long negotiation period was the fact that Sakurai kept putting him off out of worry that he couldn't properly pull off his mechanics. The doujin circles wouldn't own the rights to Touhou, so they'd most likely have to wait for the talks with ZUN to finish before Nintendo started reaching out to the music groups. I don't think Reimu would need such absurd, game-changing mechanics like Steve did, and ZUN himself would be really easy to deal with, so they wouldn't need to sit on the rights to Touhou for that long.
Bottom line is, they wouldn't contact the composers that early in development.
Honestly, compared to Steve, Reimu honestly feels like the kind of character that Sakurai would take just as much, if not more, time to develop, but he would still have better confidence in how to properly pull her mechanics off. I mean, the only reason he got his first job at HAL Laboratories and started his game development career was because of Gall Force, a SHMUP game made by that same company. Compared to a sandbox survival game like Minecraft, Sakurai seems much more familiar with the SHMUP genre overall. Now the fact that Sakurai will surpass Steve in terms of complexity with Reimu is untrue until proven otherwise, but if he wants to aim that high, he would have better confidence with, say, a constantly-active Zamasu/Magneto-style flight mechanic on all the stages, as opposed to Steve's Mine/Craft/Create Block Special Move, because the SHMUP genre is more closely tied to his career.

As for the negotiations themselves, absolutely, the amount of time it would take to negotiate Touhou in Smash would be about equivalent to snapping your fingers. Touhou, at this rate, is such a close equivalent to being public domain it's not even funny. The longer part would be development, as 7NATOR said. Whether it be Reimu's gimmicks, how to balance her moveset, her appearance, what stage would be used, and how abundant the music would be, that should be the most time-consuming, some much more than others. I'm probably gonna look like a parrot for bringing up Challenger Pack 4 again, but Sakurai probably took a long time with that pack, having to decide which songs to source from, which songs to remix, how many stage cameos there are, how the stage mechanic works, implementing the charge input Terry's Up-B uses, transplanting Ryu and Ken's FGC inputs and expanding upon them, and which Spirits to include in his board. You can say what you will about Terry's DLC Pack, but all that had to have taken longer than usual, only being beaten by Steve at most.
 
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SharkLord

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I mean

You said it yourself that part of Steve's long negotiation period was Sakurai figuring out how to implement the mechanics. Granted I don't think Reimu should have any issues to the extent of Steve

But before the characters go into Active development, they first need the actual baseline of what to create, which include all the details of the Design, moveset, stage, even music, and etc.

All of that does come after they officially get the rights to use the character, but I would still kind of consider it part of negotiations anyway. You still want to adhere to the owners wishes about how they want the character represented

And sometimes the creators do make a request of changes during the active Development, but I assume that's after they already have the baseline plan of what the detail is gonna look like

I do agree it shouldn't take much longer than other Series. I don't think it will take as long as Steve as an example, but that I do think it might take quite some time though, even with Zun being in the picture giving his requests and such. He might know everything canon, but how everything translates to Smash can still be quite a time sink. how everything specifically animates and everything Now whether it was taking as long as when these rumors starting popping up, that's up to your Interpretation
It was more that Sakurai kept putting it off and saying "No, Nintendo, I can't make this work." I doubt Reimu would have such a situation. They was Sakurai wanted Steve to work required him to go back and redo every stage in the game. Touhou don't have that same level of control over the environment, and I highly doubt Sakurai would keep putting Reimu off for so long. We've had characters translated from 2D to 3D before as well, and either way I'd imagine it wouldn't need to wait until near the end of the second pass when according to the rumors, the negotiations started around the time of the first.
Honestly, compared to Steve, Reimu honestly feels like the kind of character that Sakurai would take just as much, if not more, time to develop, but he would still have better confidence in how to properly pull her mechanics off. I mean, the only reason he got his first job at HAL Laboratories and started his game development career was because of Gall Force, a SHMUP game made by that same company. Compared to a sandbox survival game like Minecraft, Sakurai seems much more familiar with the SHMUP genre overall. Now the fact that Sakurai will surpass Steve in terms of complexity with Reimu is untrue until proven otherwise, but if he wants to aim that high, he would have better confidence with, say, a constantly-active Zamasu/Magneto-style flight mechanic on all the stages, as opposed to Steve's Mine/Craft/Create Block Special Move, because the SHMUP genre is more closely tied to his career.

As for the negotiations themselves, absolutely, the amount of time it would take to negotiate Touhou in Smash would be about equivalent to snapping your fingers. Touhou, at this rate, is such a close equivalent to being public domain it's not even funny. The longer part would be development, as 7NATOR said. Whether it be Reimu's gimmicks, how to balance her moveset, her appearance, what stage would be used, and how abundant the music would be, that should be the most time-consuming, some much more than others. I'm probably gonna look like a parrot for bringing up Challenger Pack 4 again, but Sakurai probably took a long time with that pack, having to decide which songs to source from, which songs to remix, how many stage cameos there are, how the stage mechanic works, implementing the charge input Terry's Up-B uses, transplanting Ryu and Ken's FGC inputs and expanding upon them, and which Spirits to include in his board. You can say what you will about Terry's DLC Pack, but all that had to have taken longer than usual, only being beaten by Steve at most.
The argument here is that Reimu's pack wouldn't be dragged out for so long. If he's more familiar with shoot-em-ups and would have a better idea of how to implement a character from that genre, it would take less development time, not more. As for CP4, even if that took more time and effort than normal, it still released only about year after the first Fighter's Pass was finalized. If Reimu's pack has a similar level of effort and started around the same time as Terry's, she'd probably drop during FP1 as well, not over an entire year afterwards.
 

Arctiq

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only recently heard the new glitch, and I know glitches don't always lead to something, this one feels very specific towards 1 thing, the ability to dash through projectiles. A new mechanic, which would be needed if Reimu got added. A fun pluasable glitch in reimus favor.

Speaking of those old DOujin leaks. Remember, Steve was in talks for like 5 years.... its POSSIBLE some talks to doujin groups started super early.

The one thing I really want to happen is if Reimu happens, that her stage has as much or MORE stage cameos then the Terry stage. There are SO MANY characters in touhou and it all makes sense for any of them to be at Hakurei Shrine watching a fight like this.
A lot of people are thinking this has to do with a headshot mechanic or some kind of head guard in Ryu's case, but it seems to work with all of the hitboxes, which makes me excited about Reimu's chances.

As for the stage, I hope we get a lot of cameos too. There are so many well-designed characters in the Touhou universe I'd like to see, like the Prismriver Sisters or the Nuclear Fusion girl (can't remember her name)
 

GolisoPower

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A lot of people are thinking this has to do with a headshot mechanic or some kind of head guard in Ryu's case, but it seems to work with all of the hitboxes, which makes me excited about Reimu's chances.

As for the stage, I hope we get a lot of cameos too. There are so many well-designed characters in the Touhou universe I'd like to see, like the Prismriver Sisters or the Nuclear Fusion girl (can't remember her name)
I believe that's Utsuho Reiuji you're talking about.
 

Rikarte

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Hey guys! Just dropping by to tell you that the official schedule for the Touhou World Cup has been announced. First stream is gonna be in 6 days!
Definitely not something you wanna miss, last year's event was freaking amazing.
 

7NATOR

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It was more that Sakurai kept putting it off and saying "No, Nintendo, I can't make this work." I doubt Reimu would have such a situation. They was Sakurai wanted Steve to work required him to go back and redo every stage in the game. Touhou don't have that same level of control over the environment, and I highly doubt Sakurai would keep putting Reimu off for so long. We've had characters translated from 2D to 3D before as well, and either way I'd imagine it wouldn't need to wait until near the end of the second pass when according to the rumors, the negotiations started around the time of the first.

The argument here is that Reimu's pack wouldn't be dragged out for so long. If he's more familiar with shoot-em-ups and would have a better idea of how to implement a character from that genre, it would take less development time, not more. As for CP4, even if that took more time and effort than normal, it still released only about year after the first Fighter's Pass was finalized. If Reimu's pack has a similar level of effort and started around the same time as Terry's, she'd probably drop during FP1 as well, not over an entire year afterwards.
-There have been characters translated from 2D to 3D, but even if it was done, it doesn't mean it wouldn't take awhile to do. I do agree that Reimu wouldn't be the same situation as Steve.

-If Reimu wasn't ready to be in the First Fighter Pass, then she would have to be in the 2nd one. If Negotiations started around the time of the first, but she wasn't ready for the first one, all of it would have to wait until 2nd Pass

As an other example, Bethesda talked to Nintendo around the time of E3 2018, when Fighter Pass 1 was being decided, and we didn't get Vault Boy until the 1st pack of FP2

-And for her being in the end of the Pass, I don't think the ordering matters that much. They probably finalize all the details of all the characters in FP2, including the order of which characters would be released first and such, before working on the characters themselves in active development. Even if hypothetically, Reimu already had her details finished before a character like Sephiroth, they still might want Sephiroth to come before Reimu because they know Sephiroth is a bigger deal and would sell the pass to more people


-While Sakurai might be familiar with Shoot-em-ups, we have no idea how much of an idea he has on how to Implement one, since Reimu would be the first one added. So it's speculation about this point. It would take less development time than if Sakurai had no idea how to work with a Shoot em up character, but it still might take alot of time because this is a new avenue that Sakurai is approaching, something not done in Smash before
 

zferolie

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Honestly, compared to Steve, Reimu honestly feels like the kind of character that Sakurai would take just as much, if not more, time to develop, but he would still have better confidence in how to properly pull her mechanics off. I mean, the only reason he got his first job at HAL Laboratories and started his game development career was because of Gall Force, a SHMUP game made by that same company. Compared to a sandbox survival game like Minecraft, Sakurai seems much more familiar with the SHMUP genre overall. Now the fact that Sakurai will surpass Steve in terms of complexity with Reimu is untrue until proven otherwise, but if he wants to aim that high, he would have better confidence with, say, a constantly-active Zamasu/Magneto-style flight mechanic on all the stages, as opposed to Steve's Mine/Craft/Create Block Special Move, because the SHMUP genre is more closely tied to his career.

As for the negotiations themselves, absolutely, the amount of time it would take to negotiate Touhou in Smash would be about equivalent to snapping your fingers. Touhou, at this rate, is such a close equivalent to being public domain it's not even funny. The longer part would be development, as 7NATOR said. Whether it be Reimu's gimmicks, how to balance her moveset, her appearance, what stage would be used, and how abundant the music would be, that should be the most time-consuming, some much more than others. I'm probably gonna look like a parrot for bringing up Challenger Pack 4 again, but Sakurai probably took a long time with that pack, having to decide which songs to source from, which songs to remix, how many stage cameos there are, how the stage mechanic works, implementing the charge input Terry's Up-B uses, transplanting Ryu and Ken's FGC inputs and expanding upon them, and which Spirits to include in his board. You can say what you will about Terry's DLC Pack, but all that had to have taken longer than usual, only being beaten by Steve at most.
To add to this: This last smash credits IS a SHMUP, and all the games credit scenes have had SHMUP elements. Kid Icarus Uprising basically had half the game being a SHMUP. I would not be surprised Sakurai wants to put in a SHMUp character, and reimu is the best option for a fighting game.

A lot of people are thinking this has to do with a headshot mechanic or some kind of head guard in Ryu's case, but it seems to work with all of the hitboxes, which makes me excited about Reimu's chances.

As for the stage, I hope we get a lot of cameos too. There are so many well-designed characters in the Touhou universe I'd like to see, like the Prismriver Sisters or the Nuclear Fusion girl (can't remember her name)
I call her Okuu, and I love her haha. Shes fun and hope she and Orin appear in the background.
 

SharkLord

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To add to this: This last smash credits IS a SHMUP, and all the games credit scenes have had SHMUP elements. Kid Icarus Uprising basically had half the game being a SHMUP. I would not be surprised Sakurai wants to put in a SHMUp character, and reimu is the best option for a fighting game.
I'd like to point out that Sakurai's not choosing the characters, though, so even if he wants Reimu he can only put together a moveset if Nintendo chose her. He's stated this regarding Byleth, Min Min, Steve, and now with Pyra and Mythra. I don't think Sakurai bias can be taken into account regarding these characters.
 

perfectchaos83

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Speaking of those old DOujin leaks. Remember, Steve was in talks for like 5 years.... its POSSIBLE some talks to doujin groups started super early.
The only thing I can see taking a while to negotiate would be getting rights to multiple doujin covers. Even if it's something like 20 songs from 10 doujin circles, that would still take an ample amount of time out of a project.

Not saying this is what happened or that it's likely, but it's the only situation in which Reimu taking a long time to negotiate makes sense.
 

Merengue

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I'd like to point out that Sakurai's not choosing the characters, though, so even if he wants Reimu he can only put together a moveset if Nintendo chose her. He's stated this regarding Byleth, Min Min, Steve, and now with Pyra and Mythra. I don't think Sakurai bias can be taken into account regarding these characters.
I hope some of those Nintendo executives are cultured.
 

Quidd Dude

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I love when this thread becomes active, honestly i still can't believe that Reimu has a shot for Smash Bros, even if i started playing last year i always was surrounded with Touhou content and i didn't notice and having Reimu in Smash would be the best, i wouldn't ask for anything else ngl.
 

GolisoPower

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I love when this thread becomes active, honestly i still can't believe that Reimu has a shot for Smash Bros, even if i started playing last year i always was surrounded with Touhou content and i didn't notice and having Reimu in Smash would be the best, i wouldn't ask for anything else ngl.
This statement right here is why I'm gonna enjoy how the internet reacts more than a Reimu reveal itself.

If Reimu is announced in Smash Bros, the fans discovering that they've been loving Touhou all this time is probably gonna be a meme. People are gonna hate Reimu at first, then have existential crises when they learn that a character they love or have seen was from Touhou this whole time.
 
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Quidd Dude

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This statement right here is why I'm gonna enjoy how the internet reacts more than a Reimu reveal itself.

If Reimu is announced in Smash Bros, the fans discovering that they've been loving Touhou all this time is probably gonna be a meme. People are gonna hate Reimu at first, then have existential crises when they learn that a character they love or have seen was from Touhou this whole time.
Can't wait to see people's reactions if Cirno makes a Stage Cameo.
 

Doremy's smug grin

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Just came to say that I support Reimu in Smash. I haven't played much of the series, but I really enjoy the character designs (edit: and music holy crap it's good). I hope the glitch theory is true. I'll wish y'all luck!

Glad to see someone else who shares my exact same sentiments. If you have any specific questions about Touhou, I would be happy to answer them. I guess that would be one way I could be more useful to this thread . I'm glad to see more and more people who are willing to learn more about this franchise! Now, if you are still there, How long have you heard of this series?
 
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Doremy's smug grin

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I'm sorry for replying late to some of these posts. I'm quite slow to replying after they have been posted. I know that it might be considered bad etiquette or whatever, but I'm quite the procrastinator in real life. Anyways, I will reply as soon as I see them.
 

Doremy's smug grin

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Quick heads-up Doremy's smug grin Doremy's smug grin , sending out multiple posts at the same time is considered spam. It's recommended that you reply to the posts all at once. If another post comes out before you can respond, you're to go back and edit your post to include that one too. Just for reference.

Okay, got it. Thanks for telling me this!
 

Doremy's smug grin

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I do find that quite sad...even though both my sister and I know there's no chance in hell that I will be getting this game once it finally does come out. It's been a bit of a tradition for the both of us lol.
 
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