Shrine Maiden of Paradise ~ Reimu Hakurei (Touhou Project)

[3D Dillon]

So I'm gonna post this from one of my own threads:

Spoiler: Open this after reading the above.

Now obviously these aren't ironclad as I've said here, but I find it hard to find ties between Reimu and the color purple, since she's always been attributed to the color red. Unless we're really stretching and making that connection with her PC-98 design's hair color. Don't get me wrong, I still want Reimu, but at least one of those factors seems to play against her.

It can be light purple, and different from Hero's color.

 

[Arctiq]

So I'm gonna post this from one of my own threads:

Spoiler: Open this after reading the above.

Now obviously these aren't ironclad as I've said here, but I find it hard to find ties between Reimu and the color purple, since she's always been attributed to the color red. Unless we're really stretching and making that connection with her PC-98 design's hair color. Don't get me wrong, I still want Reimu, but at least one of those factors seems to play against her.

I don't think they always have to have some tie to the color. Just look at Terry. The red and yellow really pops against the blue background. The only thing blue are his eyes. Same with byleth. Their hair is blue, but the background is green. They could possibly use the red on Reimu to make her pop against the purple background.

 

[GolisoPower]

I don't think they always have to have some tie to the color. Just look at Terry. The red and yellow really pops against the blue background. The only thing blue are his eyes. Same with byleth. Their hair is blue, but the background is green. They could possibly use the red on Reimu to make her pop against the purple background.

Now that you mention it, purple seems to be a color used the most in the Touhou games, at least from my perspective. Not just in some of the characters (PCB Yukari, Sumireko, Byakuren in some instances), but in some of the aesthetics of some of the games (Some lavender was used in Unconnected Marketeers, PCB seems to use a lot of purple, etc).

 

[zferolie]

GRAZE BUG STILL ALIVE

and I don't remember any effects like this when Kazuya wavedashing Hadoken

it could mean nothing, but normally bugs vanish after a character is released, even if the bug wasn't tied to any part of the character... quite interesting

 

[Commander_Alph]

RTC is now rating Reimu along with Quote and The Knight from Hollow Knight!
https://smashboards.com/threads/rat...ve-story-and-the-knight-hollow-knight.453357/

I don't want to call names or anything but something really irks me every time she gets a low rating on top of sounding really mean-spirited, you know who.

 

[Doremy's smug grin]

RTC is now rating Reimu along with Quote and The Knight from Hollow Knight!
https://smashboards.com/threads/rat...ve-story-and-the-knight-hollow-knight.453357/

I don't want to call names or anything but something really irks me every time she gets a low rating on top of sounding really mean-spirited, you know who.

THANK YOU!! God, and I thought I was the only one that noticed. It's not even just that thread either, so many of the threads here that aren't Reimu-centric have gotten some people sticking their noses up and act all snobbish whenever the idea is even bought up! I gotta say, I'm getting tired of being the laughing stock of the whole town! I'm going mad, I tells ya! I swear, these people will be humbled when they realize that stuff like that just doesn't matter when it comes to how these fighters are selected. Even if it's not Reimu, I pray with the guidance of the Hakurei priest that the last fighter will finally sit them down, and shut them up!

 

[Commander_Alph]

THANK YOU!! God, and I thought I was the only one that noticed. It's not even just that thread either, so many of the threads here that aren't Reimu-centric have gotten some people sticking their noses up and act all snobbish whenever the idea is even bought up! I gotta say, I'm getting tired of being the laughing stock of the whole town! I'm going mad, I tells ya! I swear, these people will be humbled when they realize that stuff like that just doesn't matter when it comes to how these fighters are selected. Even if it's not Reimu, I pray with the guidance of the Hakurei priest that the last fighter will finally sit them down, and shut them up!

Yeah, last time I pointed this out I got a warning for targeted harrasment/flaming... I feel like Reimu is like the black sheep of the bunch I mean nobody's there to defend her except for us fans of the series and some Japanese folks on mostly English speaker when it comes to centralized popularity but something like Master Chief got the whole west defending his unpopular status in Japan, I mean we're kinda lucky that multiple leaks mentioned her name since now all eyes on her but at the cost of her presence eerily bothered someone.

 

[zferolie]

THANK YOU!! God, and I thought I was the only one that noticed. It's not even just that thread either, so many of the threads here that aren't Reimu-centric have gotten some people sticking their noses up and act all snobbish whenever the idea is even bought up! I gotta say, I'm getting tired of being the laughing stock of the whole town! I'm going mad, I tells ya! I swear, these people will be humbled when they realize that stuff like that just doesn't matter when it comes to how these fighters are selected. Even if it's not Reimu, I pray with the guidance of the Hakurei priest that the last fighter will finally sit them down, and shut them up!

I made a point in my rating that the low western knowledge of her means nothing compared to her absolutely massive japanese scene.

Plus, what sakurai said about ayumi way back for melee means nothing now, because the world is a different beast and the kniwledge of touhou is much more then the knowledge of famicom detective cub from back then.

Hence, i gave her a 40%

 

[Commander_Alph]

I made a point in my rating that the low western knowledge of her means nothing compared to her absolutely massive japanese scene.

Plus, what sakurai said about ayumi way back for melee means nothing now, because the world is a different beast and the kniwledge of touhou is much more then the knowledge of famicom detective cub from back then.

Hence, i gave her a 40%

I like that they didn't mention that internet exist and most of Touhou fanbase overseas knew the series from the internet itself like us here, it's almost like anything that is popular in Japan or other parts of the worlds isn't kept to themselves, like how there's a fan of japanese tokusatsu films all over the world despite the series target more toward japanese audience, not to mentioned the amount of exposure Touhou has over the year with that doujin on a museum, a flower named after the main character to getting a spot at Guiness..

 

[Geno Boost]

here is a weird argument i hear regarding reimu sometimes which is that most tohou fans never played tohou before
is that true?

 

[Paraster]

here is a weird argument i hear regarding reimu sometimes which is that most tohou fans never played tohou before
is that true?

I wouldn't say "most," but given the prominence of fangames and fanmade art projects/remixes, there's probably a decent chunk of Touhou fans who have not played the official series.

 

[TheTuninator]

I wouldn't say "most," but given the prominence of fangames and fanmade art projects/remixes, there's probably a decent chunk of Touhou fans who have not played the official series.

Oh, I would definitely say that the majority of Touhou fans probably have not actually played the bullet hell games. At least in the ~2008-2010 period during the peak for sure, maybe less so now.

 

[zriL]

My main issue with the RTC thread is that it uses that UN owen "full version" video that isn't actually the full version, but an arrangement at the end of the original... That title should be a crime for how many people it has mislead and confused.

Personally, I don't think they act snobbish. As people who don't know very much about Touhou, they use reasonable and expected arguments. We can't really blame them for not knowing as much as we do. Their opinion is actually interesting because it's representative of what we should expect from the mainstream crowd.

 

[perfectchaos83]

My main issue with the RTC thread is that it uses that UN owen "full version" video that isn't actually the full version, but an arrangement at the end of the original... That title should be a crime for how many people it has mislead and confused.

Personally, I don't think they act snobbish. As people who don't know very much about Touhou, they use reasonable and expected arguments. We can't really blame them for not knowing as much as we do. Their opinion is actually interesting because it's representative of what we should expect from the mainstream crowd.

I wouldn't call what happens in the RTC to be representative of the mainstream crowd. The Mainstream crowd really doesn't care who's in or not. The Hardcore speculative Smash community is the furthest thing from mainstream because they typically don't look at anything objectively, they look for validation in their character choices/wants.

 

[Doremy's smug grin]

My main issue with the RTC thread is that it uses that UN owen "full version" video that isn't actually the full version, but an arrangement at the end of the original... That title should be a crime for how many people it has mislead and confused.

(Haha, yeah. When I first listened to that song, I knew that this remix isn't part of the original song, and believe me, I was a DUMB kid. (By the time I knew this, I couldn't even remember Marisa's full name! xD) It just made me wish that it would be part of the original song, lol.)

No, what would be a crime is playing Jon Stump's "Death Waltz" as her theme. That's not even a Touhou song! Seriously, how did this even happen?! Even I knew that was bulls** before I even knew about the original Death Waltz, and I was a total Dumba**!

Personally, I don't think they act snobbish. As people who don't know very much about Touhou, they use reasonable and expected arguments. We can't really blame them for not knowing as much as we do. Their opinion is actually interesting because it's representative of what we should expect from the mainstream crowd.

Yeah, I guess you're right...grumble grumble There were people who were rating her chances fairly. Even most who were critical of her actually gave fair points against her case. I'll admit, "snobbish" wasn't the best word to use. But even with all that, you have to admit, some of them made shots at her that were just uncalled for. Even though I was exaggerating somewhat, I still did not like how some of them did not take her seriously, and I meant it when I say that I hope these people finally stop acting like this if Reimu or any other character that has that same niche status makes it in.

here is a weird argument i hear regarding reimu sometimes which is that most tohou fans never played tohou before
is that true?

winces*
Yeah, this is actually kind of a running joke in the fandom. It's more like 50%. (i don't have any sources to back this up lol) TheTuninator says that the number of people who played nowadays are lower, but I think its higher than he makes it out to be. More and more notable fans of the series, such as Sr pelo and Sencho Marine, have recorded themselves playing these games. The fact that most of the games are on Steam now should really make these numbers higher.

 

[Commander_Alph]

I still did not like how some of them did not take her seriously, and I meant it when I say that I hope these people finally stop acting like this if Reimu or any other character that has that same niche status makes it in.

This is probably my biggest upset, like they could sums up her cons with "not popular worldwide" (since literally that's the only reason it boils down to), like they mentioned that the game is unaccessible when on the flip side it's fine and dandy as Sakurai himself is Japanese so he probably tell his side of the story and mentioned the lack of availability for overseas audience as a footnote and probably crack a joke about "Good thing the fan of the series is dedicated enough to translate the game, damn I wish my fans were like that audience laugh" or something like that and lastly repeat after me "every niche series that is put in Smash will be not so niche anymore!" The fact that Captain Falcon whole personality is shape by Smash itself means that it too can change the status of a game. Like the hardcore speculator barely think the alternative and just treat it as face value.

 

[Doremy's smug grin]

This is probably my biggest upset, like they could sums up her cons with "not popular worldwide" (since literally that's the only reason it boils down to), like they mentioned that the game is unaccessible when on the flip side it's fine and dandy as Sakurai himself is Japanese so he probably tell his side of the story and mentioned the lack of availability for overseas audience as a footnote and probably crack a joke about "Good thing the fan of the series is dedicated enough to translate the game, damn I wish my fans were like that audience laugh" or something like that and lastly repeat after me "every niche series that is put in Smash will be not so niche anymore!" The fact that Captain Falcon whole personality is shape by Smash itself means that it too can change the status of a game. Like the hardcore speculator barely think the alternative and just treat it as face value.

Please, please, please tell me if what I heard is actually wrong if it's incorrect, I hope it is true, lest I look like a complete idiot.

I have heard somewhere that this series was never intended to be a celebration of gaming history, but a celebration of Nintendo's history, initially. People would call the series the former, supposedly because of the amount of gaming icons it featured, and as a result, it gained this unintentional, unofficial status of being the "biggest celebration of gaming history" even to people who aren't fans of the series. I believe Sakurai never stated what these fans keep saying, at least outright.

If this is true, then I cannot take these people seriously... Regardless of whether this is true or not, I don't think the "level of iconicness" should ever be used as a factor in smash speculation, because I feel like there are way to many people who only make this argument just so they can bully those who support a character that they feel is "irrelevant". This is actually very prevalent on sites Youtube and GameFAQS(a thread that I was even a part of) as far as I know. Smashboards, not as much. I'm deeply sorry that even I used the same thing when I made my points for why Reimu should be in smash, even if I don't think that other characters are "less deserving" because of this. If I didn't know any better, judging by how some of these people act, I would think that they treat smash speculation as little more than just a d***-measuring contest, and just makes me not want to be a part of any other communities that speculate. The only reason why I'm still here is because you guys are actually cool and are open to new ideas, and I'm actually having fun when we share ideas in this thread.

 

[zriL]

I have heard somewhere that this series was never intended to be a celebration of gaming history, but a celebration of Nintendo's history, initially. People would call the series the former, supposedly because of the amount of gaming icons it featured, and as a result, it gained this unintentional, unofficial status of being the "biggest celebration of gaming history" even to people who aren't fans of the series. I believe Sakurai never stated what these fans keep saying, at least outright.

If that's what you're asking, Sakurai did use the term "celebration of gaming", even though he also said the plan was only Nintendo all-stars originally. There is no reason to believe that "iconicness" is a not a very important factor, the main issue is that it cannot be measured and now most obvious iconic choices are already in anyways.

Anyways, "iconicness" is definitely not something you can use against Reimu/Touhou in my opinion. Most DLC and candidates aren't even big icons anymore. I believe that what's make an "icon" is being known outside of its original market, by the most casual people. That's what Pokemon, Mario or Zelda achieved, and what's Metroid or Starfox didn't for example, nobody know them outside of the gaming crowd. And it turns out that Reimu does have that, and she actually even does more than most of the current Smash roster. If you take a casual crowd of internet savvy people that doesn't care about video games (still a big population), they won't be familiar with 90% of smash roster, but they have a decent chance of actually knowing Touhou through music, anime-related stuff or meme-culture, and those who don't probably were exposed several times to it without realizing it. Not a lot of characters can claim that, even in the current roster. For example, in FP1 and FP2, only Steve and barely maybe Sephiroth have this kind of aura, DQ slime would but the Hero character doesn't really. I'd say what might cause issues for Reimu is that she's actually less known in her original market than outside of it, which is a pretty unique situation.

 

[TheTuninator]

I wouldn't call what happens in the RTC to be representative of the mainstream crowd. The Mainstream crowd really doesn't care who's in or not. The Hardcore speculative Smash community is the furthest thing from mainstream because they typically don't look at anything objectively, they look for validation in their character choices/wants.

Big time, haha. All you need to do is look at a list from like 2019 of what the seemingly "most wanted" DLC characters in these communities were (Geno, Shantae, Isaac, etc) vs. the real world of who actually got in (Joker, Sephiroth, Byleth, Kazuya, etc) to see that roster speculation communities represent a pretty inbred form of discussion and are often hung up on characters who are not particularly popular or known to mainstream fans.

 

[zriL]

Big time, haha. All you need to do is look at a list from like 2019 of what the seemingly "most wanted" DLC characters in these communities were (Geno, Shantae, Isaac, etc) vs. the real world of who actually got in (Joker, Sephiroth, Byleth, Kazuya, etc) to see that roster speculation communities represent a pretty inbred form of discussion and are often hung up on characters who are not particularly popular or known to mainstream fans.

For clarity, what I said about them being representative of the mainstream crowd was about how they perceive Touhou. For that aspect, it doesn't matter much that they're in the speculation community and supporting other characters. They're still from a gamer crowd though, not necesarily the same as the smash average audience.

 

[Geoffrey Druyts]

I've played my first Touhou game a couple of months ago, and I would like to throw in support for Reimu in Smash.

 

[GolisoPower]

Okay, so tinfoil hat time/question:

Does Nintendo give Sakurai a set budget when making Smash Bros, or do they just trickle in money as they go? I'm mainly asking because of how it could relate to Reimu.

Let's have a look-see through the Challenger Packs and the money they may have spent on them throughout the years:

• Piranha Plant
  • Free bonus DLC character. $
  • Meant to be a part of the base roster after Incineroar, but schedule circumstances changed that. $
  • Because of how easy it is to make him and because of how he's a first-party, PP may have cost less money to develop than any other DLC character ever. $
• Joker
  • Our first official DLC character. $
  • Sakurai loved Persona 5, the game was the main inspiration behind the menu.
• Hero
  • Koichi Sugiyama was likely very miserly, was only able to provide MIDI tracks instead of the fully-orchestrated tracks. Even with that, it must've been expensive.
  • Has the highest number of distinct Specials of any Smash character thanks to Command Selection. $$$
  • Had to hire different voice actors for each of the 4 Heroes.
• Banjo & Kazooie
  • Close ties with Nintendo thanks to B-K's history. $
  • Microsoft and Nintendo had been getting really chummy at the time. $
• Terry
  • SNK was the most generous company out of everyone, beating out Konami prior. $
  • Due to Fatal Fury being a 4-button fighter as opposed to Street Fighter's 6-buttons, was generally easier to develop standard attacks for. $
  • Comes with GO! mechanic and unique inputs. $$
  • KoF Stadium possesses a bajillion stage cameos and has that wall mechanic. $$
• Byleth
  • Was rumored to be initially a Monster Hunter rep, but didn't fall through. $$
• Min Min
  • Direct request from Yabuki himself. $
  • Min Min has a unique control scheme in comparison to the rest of the fighters. $$$
• Steve
  • Negotiations took 5 years to develop. Vergeben, love him or hate him, said Minecraft content was coming to Smash long before Steve's reveal. $$$
  • Required Sakurai to rewrite every single stage to accommodate Neutral Special. $$$
  • Was issued by a co-worker as a challenge for Sakurai. (Could be a joke, could be serious. I don't know) $$
• Sephiroth
  • lods of emone probably went to music negotiations since we got 9 songs out of FF with this challenger pack. $$$
  • Only speaks Japanese for consistency with Cloud. $
  • Northern Cave background seems like a very intricate render, as opposed to other stages like Yggdrasil's Altar and Garreg Mach Monastery. $$$
• Pyra/Mythra
  • Was initially going to be a trio character with Rex, but limitations led to the idea being scrapped, turning Pyra and Mythra into a Zelda/Sheik-type character. $$$
  • Required contacting Skye Bennett and Al Weaver, British voice actors. $$
• Kazuya
  • Sakurai discussed how difficult it would be to put Tekken's movement into Smash when discussing Heihachi. $
  • Kazuya has 8 input directions to choose from for his tilts. $$
  • Tekken has 39 songs in Smash Bros. $$

What does this have to do with Reimu? Well, Smash has always had some lowkey reveals at the end. If Reimu actually is our final character, then it'd make sense for the final Challenger Pack to require less money, too. There are a few points in favor of this, too:

• ZUN's very lax when it comes to copyrights, as I may have mentioned many a time on this thread, so negotiations could very well be the most affordable out of anyone. $
• Team Shanghai Alice is a one-man dev team, most likely meaning not much money was spent on drawing the artwork and composing the songs. $
• That "graze" glitch still hasn't been fixed. Sakurai and the dev team could've fixed it when making the Kazuya patch, but it's still there. That could be fixed in a later patch, but as it stands, it's still there. $

Touhou Project makes sense on so many levels as a finale, as not only would it reflect the final DLC character in Smash 4 being Bayonetta with Byleth being like Corrin, but these points, among others I haven't thought of yet, would point it to being Reimu mainly because Sakurai's dev team is approaching the end and probably require fewer resources, much like with Corrin and Bayonetta. Master Chief is heavily rumored as of late, yes, but he sounds really expensive, and as of right now, Smash has put the most money into Microsoft content with not just Banjo-Kazooie and Minecraft, but also Fallout and most recently Skyrim.

TL;DR: Team Shanghai Alice probably requires the least amount of money for negotiations and development than any fighter we've had so far, making her the most likely candidate for our final challenger.

 

[Doremy's smug grin]

Okay, so tinfoil hat time/question:

Does Nintendo give Sakurai a set budget when making Smash Bros, or do they just trickle in money as they go? I'm mainly asking because of how it could relate to Reimu.

Let's have a look-see through the Challenger Packs and the money they may have spent on them throughout the years:

• Piranha Plant
  • Free bonus DLC character. $
  • Meant to be a part of the base roster after Incineroar, but schedule circumstances changed that. $
  • Because of how easy it is to make him and because of how he's a first-party, PP may have cost less money to develop than any other DLC character ever. $
• Joker
  • Our first official DLC character. $
  • Sakurai loved Persona 5, the game was the main inspiration behind the menu.
• Hero
  • Koichi Sugiyama was likely very miserly, was only able to provide MIDI tracks instead of the fully-orchestrated tracks. Even with that, it must've been expensive.
  • Has the highest number of distinct Specials of any Smash character thanks to Command Selection. $$$
  • Had to hire different voice actors for each of the 4 Heroes.
• Banjo & Kazooie
  • Close ties with Nintendo thanks to B-K's history. $
  • Microsoft and Nintendo had been getting really chummy at the time. $
• Terry
  • SNK was the most generous company out of everyone, beating out Konami prior. $
  • Due to Fatal Fury being a 4-button fighter as opposed to Street Fighter's 6-buttons, was generally easier to develop standard attacks for. $
  • Comes with GO! mechanic and unique inputs. $$
  • KoF Stadium possesses a bajillion stage cameos and has that wall mechanic. $$
• Byleth
  • Was rumored to be initially a Monster Hunter rep, but didn't fall through. $$
• Min Min
  • Direct request from Yabuki himself. $
  • Min Min has a unique control scheme in comparison to the rest of the fighters. $$$
• Steve
  • Negotiations took 5 years to develop. Vergeben, love him or hate him, said Minecraft content was coming to Smash long before Steve's reveal. $$$
  • Required Sakurai to rewrite every single stage to accommodate Neutral Special. $$$
  • Was issued by a co-worker as a challenge for Sakurai. (Could be a joke, could be serious. I don't know) $$
• Sephiroth
  • lods of emone probably went to music negotiations since we got 9 songs out of FF with this challenger pack. $$$
  • Only speaks Japanese for consistency with Cloud. $
  • Northern Cave background seems like a very intricate render, as opposed to other stages like Yggdrasil's Altar and Garreg Mach Monastery. $$$
• Pyra/Mythra
  • Was initially going to be a trio character with Rex, but limitations led to the idea being scrapped, turning Pyra and Mythra into a Zelda/Sheik-type character. $$$
  • Required contacting Skye Bennett and Al Weaver, British voice actors. $$
• Kazuya
  • Sakurai discussed how difficult it would be to put Tekken's movement into Smash when discussing Heihachi. $
  • Kazuya has 8 input directions to choose from for his tilts. $$
  • Tekken has 39 songs in Smash Bros. $$

What does this have to do with Reimu? Well, Smash has always had some lowkey reveals at the end. If Reimu actually is our final character, then it'd make sense for the final Challenger Pack to require less money, too. There are a metric ton of points in favor of this, too:

• ZUN's very lax when it comes to copyrights, as I may have mentioned many a time on this thread, so negotiations could very well be the most affordable out of anyone. $
• Team Shanghai Alice is a one-man dev team, most likely meaning not much money was spent on drawing the artwork and composing the songs. $
• That "graze" glitch still hasn't been fixed. Sakurai and the dev team could've fixed it when making the Kazuya patch, but it's still there. That could be fixed in a later patch, but as it stands, it's still there. $

Touhou Project makes sense on so many levels as a finale, as not only would it reflect the final DLC character in Smash 4 being Bayonetta with Byleth being like Corrin, but these points, among others I haven't thought of yet, would point it to being Reimu mainly because Sakurai's dev team is approaching the end and probably require fewer resources, much like with Corrin and Bayonetta. Master Chief is heavily rumored as of late, yes, but he sounds really expensive, and as of right now, Smash has put the most money into Microsoft content with not just Banjo-Kazooie and Minecraft, but also Fallout and most recently Skyrim.

TL;DR: Team Shanghai Alice probably requires the least amount of money for negotiations and development than any fighter we've had so far, making her the most likely candidate for our final challenger.

I'm sure you have enough sense to know this, but I hope this doesn't make you think that she is guarenteed to be a fighter, or get in the game at all. I don't know, you sounded so sure. I wish I could be as confident as you, because all of this sounds like the stars would align for her, but as we (should've) learned from all those "leaks" that have been proven false as the real fighters have been revealed, you can never expect a pattern with the way he reveals characters. Sorry if you didn't think that, just want to make sure! And yes, I will be OVER THE F***ING MOON if there ends up being some pattern with this after all, and the one to show that is Reimu!

I've played my first Touhou game a couple of months ago, and I would like to throw in support for Reimu in Smash.

Godspeed, my dude! Say, which game have you started with?

 

[GolisoPower]

I'm sure you have enough sense to know this, but I hope this doesn't make you think that she is guarenteed to be a fighter, or get in the game at all. I don't know, you sounded so sure.

Ah, yeah that's something that needs clarifying. Right now, I'm fine with everyone as is. I'm just trying to be logical in my thinking when it comes to the final challenger. I mean, if Reimu doesn't make it in Smash, I wouldn't be disappointed. I mean I want her in, but her lack of appearance in Smash would be no skin off my teeth.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Does Nintendo give Sakurai a set budget when making Smash Bros, or do they just trickle in money as they go?

If Nintendo is smart with money (which they usually are), then they'd allocate a certain amount of money to Sakurai. Allocating as they go is an incredibly unsmart way to use money. This is very likely why Sakurai went with the Sakurai Presents style overviews rather than the one Joker got.

Basically, "Here's 1 million dollar's Sakurai, now make it work". I'm sure they can allocate more if Sakurai absolutely needs it, but proper budgeting is how you properly make money.

 

[SharkLord]

Okay, so tinfoil hat time/question:

Does Nintendo give Sakurai a set budget when making Smash Bros, or do they just trickle in money as they go? I'm mainly asking because of how it could relate to Reimu.

Let's have a look-see through the Challenger Packs and the money they may have spent on them throughout the years:

• Piranha Plant
  • Free bonus DLC character. $
  • Meant to be a part of the base roster after Incineroar, but schedule circumstances changed that. $
  • Because of how easy it is to make him and because of how he's a first-party, PP may have cost less money to develop than any other DLC character ever. $
• Joker
  • Our first official DLC character. $
  • Sakurai loved Persona 5, the game was the main inspiration behind the menu.
• Hero
  • Koichi Sugiyama was likely very miserly, was only able to provide MIDI tracks instead of the fully-orchestrated tracks. Even with that, it must've been expensive.
  • Has the highest number of distinct Specials of any Smash character thanks to Command Selection. $$$
  • Had to hire different voice actors for each of the 4 Heroes.
• Banjo & Kazooie
  • Close ties with Nintendo thanks to B-K's history. $
  • Microsoft and Nintendo had been getting really chummy at the time. $
• Terry
  • SNK was the most generous company out of everyone, beating out Konami prior. $
  • Due to Fatal Fury being a 4-button fighter as opposed to Street Fighter's 6-buttons, was generally easier to develop standard attacks for. $
  • Comes with GO! mechanic and unique inputs. $$
  • KoF Stadium possesses a bajillion stage cameos and has that wall mechanic. $$
• Byleth
  • Was rumored to be initially a Monster Hunter rep, but didn't fall through. $$
• Min Min
  • Direct request from Yabuki himself. $
  • Min Min has a unique control scheme in comparison to the rest of the fighters. $$$
• Steve
  • Negotiations took 5 years to develop. Vergeben, love him or hate him, said Minecraft content was coming to Smash long before Steve's reveal. $$$
  • Required Sakurai to rewrite every single stage to accommodate Neutral Special. $$$
  • Was issued by a co-worker as a challenge for Sakurai. (Could be a joke, could be serious. I don't know) $$
• Sephiroth
  • lods of emone probably went to music negotiations since we got 9 songs out of FF with this challenger pack. $$$
  • Only speaks Japanese for consistency with Cloud. $
  • Northern Cave background seems like a very intricate render, as opposed to other stages like Yggdrasil's Altar and Garreg Mach Monastery. $$$
• Pyra/Mythra
  • Was initially going to be a trio character with Rex, but limitations led to the idea being scrapped, turning Pyra and Mythra into a Zelda/Sheik-type character. $$$
  • Required contacting Skye Bennett and Al Weaver, British voice actors. $$
• Kazuya
  • Sakurai discussed how difficult it would be to put Tekken's movement into Smash when discussing Heihachi. $
  • Kazuya has 8 input directions to choose from for his tilts. $$
  • Tekken has 39 songs in Smash Bros. $$

What does this have to do with Reimu? Well, Smash has always had some lowkey reveals at the end. If Reimu actually is our final character, then it'd make sense for the final Challenger Pack to require less money, too. There are a metric ton of points in favor of this, too:

• ZUN's very lax when it comes to copyrights, as I may have mentioned many a time on this thread, so negotiations could very well be the most affordable out of anyone. $
• Team Shanghai Alice is a one-man dev team, most likely meaning not much money was spent on drawing the artwork and composing the songs. $
• That "graze" glitch still hasn't been fixed. Sakurai and the dev team could've fixed it when making the Kazuya patch, but it's still there. That could be fixed in a later patch, but as it stands, it's still there. $

Touhou Project makes sense on so many levels as a finale, as not only would it reflect the final DLC character in Smash 4 being Bayonetta with Byleth being like Corrin, but these points, among others I haven't thought of yet, would point it to being Reimu mainly because Sakurai's dev team is approaching the end and probably require fewer resources, much like with Corrin and Bayonetta. Master Chief is heavily rumored as of late, yes, but he sounds really expensive, and as of right now, Smash has put the most money into Microsoft content with not just Banjo-Kazooie and Minecraft, but also Fallout and most recently Skyrim.

TL;DR: Team Shanghai Alice probably requires the least amount of money for negotiations and development than any fighter we've had so far, making her the most likely candidate for our final challenger.

Eh... My problem with this theory is that it implies they already knew what they were going to do with the character and how much of the budget that would take up, when as far as we know they finalized the pass a decent amount of time before actually working on them. In addition, I feel like Reimu would have some sort of special mechanic or a large amount of songs; By the reasoning presented here, it sounds like she'd take up a decent amount of money as well. I'll also point out that the "metric ton of points" is just a list of three, which isn't really that much.

Another thing to note is that FP2 doesn't follow FP1's formula either. FP1 started out with Joker, who was traditionally hype and considered emblematic of most of the pass. It then followed up with Hero and Banjo, from a massively influential series and a major fan favorite. Going off of that logic, FP2 would be frontloaded with Steve, Sephiroth, and Kazuya... Except it didn't. It started with Min Min - Not to dunk on her or ARMS, but ARMS just isn't that big compared to the "heavy hitters" of the passes. It also had Pyra and Mythra in-between Sephiroth and Kazuya, rather than at the end like how FP1 did it.
In short, I kinda doubt FP2 would follow the same patterns as FP1 when it hasn't exactly been doing that up to now.

 

[VicAdward]

I found something from recommended...

I know it's KOF reference
but what if IOSYS predicted the thing 9 YEARS AGO?????

 

[Geoffrey Druyts]

Godspeed, my dude! Say, which game have you started with?

As some friends of me suggested, I've started with Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. I still have to play some more Touhou games tho so I don't know much about Touhou yet.

 

[Quidd Dude]

As some friends of me suggested, I've started with Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. I still have to play some more Touhou games tho so I don't know much about Touhou yet.

You should continue with 7 then, i'd say it's a bit better and easier than 6.

 

[Doremy's smug grin]

You should continue with 7 then, i'd say it's a bit better and easier than 6.

Honestly, SOOOOO much better! I'd rather that game be the series staple than this game. Even then, I really want 8 to be the series staple, I just find that game to be the best game in the series(...so far). Though, if I have to give credit, this is the first game to reach the windows platform, have memorable, charming characters, and have an iconic soundtrack, so I really can't knock it for what it's done for the series. Besides, Sakuya and Meiling have been the first characters I've met and known extensively, and it has been that way for many fans as well.

 

[3D Dillon]

Okay, so tinfoil hat time/question:

Does Nintendo give Sakurai a set budget when making Smash Bros, or do they just trickle in money as they go? I'm mainly asking because of how it could relate to Reimu.

Let's have a look-see through the Challenger Packs and the money they may have spent on them throughout the years:

• Piranha Plant
  • Free bonus DLC character. $
  • Meant to be a part of the base roster after Incineroar, but schedule circumstances changed that. $
  • Because of how easy it is to make him and because of how he's a first-party, PP may have cost less money to develop than any other DLC character ever. $
• Joker
  • Our first official DLC character. $
  • Sakurai loved Persona 5, the game was the main inspiration behind the menu.
• Hero
  • Koichi Sugiyama was likely very miserly, was only able to provide MIDI tracks instead of the fully-orchestrated tracks. Even with that, it must've been expensive.
  • Has the highest number of distinct Specials of any Smash character thanks to Command Selection. $$$
  • Had to hire different voice actors for each of the 4 Heroes.
• Banjo & Kazooie
  • Close ties with Nintendo thanks to B-K's history. $
  • Microsoft and Nintendo had been getting really chummy at the time. $
• Terry
  • SNK was the most generous company out of everyone, beating out Konami prior. $
  • Due to Fatal Fury being a 4-button fighter as opposed to Street Fighter's 6-buttons, was generally easier to develop standard attacks for. $
  • Comes with GO! mechanic and unique inputs. $$
  • KoF Stadium possesses a bajillion stage cameos and has that wall mechanic. $$
• Byleth
  • Was rumored to be initially a Monster Hunter rep, but didn't fall through. $$
• Min Min
  • Direct request from Yabuki himself. $
  • Min Min has a unique control scheme in comparison to the rest of the fighters. $$$
• Steve
  • Negotiations took 5 years to develop. Vergeben, love him or hate him, said Minecraft content was coming to Smash long before Steve's reveal. $$$
  • Required Sakurai to rewrite every single stage to accommodate Neutral Special. $$$
  • Was issued by a co-worker as a challenge for Sakurai. (Could be a joke, could be serious. I don't know) $$
• Sephiroth
  • lods of emone probably went to music negotiations since we got 9 songs out of FF with this challenger pack. $$$
  • Only speaks Japanese for consistency with Cloud. $
  • Northern Cave background seems like a very intricate render, as opposed to other stages like Yggdrasil's Altar and Garreg Mach Monastery. $$$
• Pyra/Mythra
  • Was initially going to be a trio character with Rex, but limitations led to the idea being scrapped, turning Pyra and Mythra into a Zelda/Sheik-type character. $$$
  • Required contacting Skye Bennett and Al Weaver, British voice actors. $$
• Kazuya
  • Sakurai discussed how difficult it would be to put Tekken's movement into Smash when discussing Heihachi. $
  • Kazuya has 8 input directions to choose from for his tilts. $$
  • Tekken has 39 songs in Smash Bros. $$

What does this have to do with Reimu? Well, Smash has always had some lowkey reveals at the end. If Reimu actually is our final character, then it'd make sense for the final Challenger Pack to require less money, too. There are a few points in favor of this, too:

• ZUN's very lax when it comes to copyrights, as I may have mentioned many a time on this thread, so negotiations could very well be the most affordable out of anyone. $
• Team Shanghai Alice is a one-man dev team, most likely meaning not much money was spent on drawing the artwork and composing the songs. $
• That "graze" glitch still hasn't been fixed. Sakurai and the dev team could've fixed it when making the Kazuya patch, but it's still there. That could be fixed in a later patch, but as it stands, it's still there. $

Touhou Project makes sense on so many levels as a finale, as not only would it reflect the final DLC character in Smash 4 being Bayonetta with Byleth being like Corrin, but these points, among others I haven't thought of yet, would point it to being Reimu mainly because Sakurai's dev team is approaching the end and probably require fewer resources, much like with Corrin and Bayonetta. Master Chief is heavily rumored as of late, yes, but he sounds really expensive, and as of right now, Smash has put the most money into Microsoft content with not just Banjo-Kazooie and Minecraft, but also Fallout and most recently Skyrim.

TL;DR: Team Shanghai Alice probably requires the least amount of money for negotiations and development than any fighter we've had so far, making her the most likely candidate for our final challenger.

Also, there's the Voice theory. It'd be weird to have one additional slot ahead in the last row after Kazuya. Reimu would be fitting as a voiceless character since none of her OFFICIAL games gave her a voice.

 

[SharkLord]

Also, there's the Voice theory. It'd be weird to have one additional slot ahead in the last row after Kazuya. Reimu would be fitting as a voiceless character since none of her OFFICIAL games gave her a voice.

I dunno... Smash clearly didn't do anything about the fighter CSS or the stage select. I don't see why something as comparatively minor as the sound test would be any different.

 

[TheTuninator]

Also, there's the Voice theory. It'd be weird to have one additional slot ahead in the last row after Kazuya. Reimu would be fitting as a voiceless character since none of her OFFICIAL games gave her a voice.

I think Reimu would need effort noises at the absolute minimum even if she didn't have voiced dialogue lines. Would be way too creepy otherwise.

 

[3D Dillon]

I think Reimu would need effort noises at the absolute minimum even if she didn't have voiced dialogue lines. Would be way too creepy otherwise.

Villager's a human, and they've got no voice clips.

 

[Quidd Dude]

Villager's a human, and they've got no voice clips.

But there's some differences, like Reimu does have dialogue in her games but the villagers never talk, they only emote with facial expressions (or maybe they do talk in the new game? haven't played AC in a while).

 

[Doremy's smug grin]

I believe there should be a constitution for her representation: NEVER give her voiced dialogue. I just cannot imagine her being talkative in this game, even if she runs her mouth constantly in her native games, albeit with no voice acting. A few grunts and screams here and there should be fine, as some of you guys already stated. Since I proposed this rule, I shall propose another. It'll probably be controversial, but USE HER TH16 PORTRAIT FOR HER RENDER

Jus--JUST LOOK AT HER!!! LOOK AT THAT CUTE FACE!! HOW COULD YOU SAY NO TO THAT FACE?!

Doesn't that face just make you say, "Yes, I would like to have this in my Smash Bros"?
(Seriously, I will melt into a puddle as big as the Mist Lake! Eeeee~! I'm already fangirling over how it'll look just by thinking about it!!)

 

[TheTuninator]

Villager's a human, and they've got no voice clips.

And there were a lot of memes during their inclusion in SSB4 about them being a soulless monstrosity!
No sound whatsoever would make Reimu come across as a bit creepy and I wouldn't want that for the series' mainstream introduction. Much better to go with something like Link if you wouldn't want her to speak any coherent words, although I think she probably should given that she has a lot of dialogue in her games.

 

[3D Dillon]

And there were a lot of memes during their inclusion in SSB4 about them being a soulless monstrosity!
No sound whatsoever would make Reimu come across as a bit creepy and I wouldn't want that for the series' mainstream introduction. Much better to go with something like Link if you wouldn't want her to speak any coherent words, although I think she probably should given that she has a lot of dialogue in her games.

Prior to SSB4, Mega Man had voice clips in the Marvel Vs. Capcom games he appeared in and has had dialogue in some of his own games (including voice acting in 8 & 11) but is mute in the Smash Bros. games. He does come with the traditional death sound, though.
Touhou fighting games like AoCF have no voice-acting whatsoever, and you'd expect that to at least have grunts and stuff. Reimu CAN have the traditional death sound when she gets KO'd.

 

[SharkLord]

I'm personally expecting Reimu to have voice clips, seeing as they gave voices to characters like Simon and Hero - Do note the former was only voiced in Castlevania Judgement, the fighting game spinoff with the weird designs. Granted, Hero was originally going to be mute to reflect how they were always silent protagonists until DQ11S, but Reimu doesn't have that excuse. The only real exception to characters not having any voice clips when they've shown themselves capable of talking is Mega Man, who's just robotic as a retro-NES throwback.

That being said, if Reimu speaks more than voice grunts, I'm predicting she'd would only have Japanese lines to reflect Touhou's status, like how Marth used to be.

 

[Doremy's smug grin]

I'm personally expecting Reimu to have voice clips, seeing as they gave voices to characters like Simon and Hero - Do note the former was only voiced in Castlevania Judgement, the fighting game spinoff with the weird designs. Granted, Hero was originally going to be mute to reflect how they were always silent protagonists until DQ11S, but Reimu doesn't have that excuse. The only real exception to characters not having any voice clips when they've shown themselves capable of talking is Mega Man, who's just robotic as a retro-NES throwback.

That being said, if Reimu speaks more than voice grunts, I'm predicting she'd would only have Japanese lines to reflect Touhou's status, like how Marth used to be.

Well, if you insist on her having voice clips, I think they should get her VA from the M-1 Grand Prix to do it. It's, like, the perfect combination of being high-pitched and soft-spoken at the same time! (lol) I swear, they always get the most fitting voices for these characters, hahahaha!