Show me your moves - Captain Falcon video thread

[Nephiros]

To which button do you have taunt assigned?

X for dem HYESz :DDD

 

[BananaBolts]

Do you do X + C stick? I'm guessing that you have to claw it for that. I do Y for taunt + Z for knee.

I don't mind the claw but I'm used to X jump. I only claw to do C stick moonwalk.

 

[Scuba Steve]

Things that I do when the stream at the weekly is down:

- Win grand finals with a walljump dair
- tons of super long zero to death combos
- somehow keep my sd's to a minimum
- 4 stock one of the top players in my region

Things that happen when the stream is working:

- http://gfycat.com/WickedElasticKingsnake



kill me plz

Anyways, I've got some more matches.

Winners Semis vs. Dong (Ike) (the rest of the matches on stream for this tourney got lost because the stream SD'd)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFeliVPlTDY

vs. Sparking Zero (Ike)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOc2ZpKu7u8

Winners Semis vs. Eclipse Kirby (Roy/MK)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9QpcL6H5ic

Winners Finals vs. Sethlon (Roy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOfbrm3Nang

Losers Finals vs. Eclipse Kirby (MK)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q62t-DiXy5I

Winners Finals vs. Eclipse Kirby (MK)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeiVsD8plKI

Losers Finals vs. Captain Birdman (Falcon)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARgdrNpXqwk



Tell me why I suck so bad

 

[DMG]

Metaknight MU is hard, I think PS2 is one of the worst stages for that MU though. I would consider banning it: you don't gain many advantages against MK on larger stages. Having more room doesn't give you the opportunity to out-maneuver him in any reasonable way, so all it usually does is keep you stuck in longer tech chases and pursuits. He can kill you easier off edgeguards anyways so the additional survivability probably helps him more.

Despite how cramped stages like GHZ, Yoshi Melee, etc might appear, they would likely be better for the MU if you have tight DD spacing or good enough defensive choices. My general mindset vs Infinity for example is to avoid the big stages with nearly any character, and try to get low % kills on the smaller stages. I might die at 60-80% instead of 120%, but I can also probably take one of his stocks at a crazy 40-50% mark to make up for it. Works better as Marth, but I'd adhere to that just the same with Falcon. Last time we played, Game 1-2 were both on Battlefield cause I banned most of the large stages (PS2, DL, Skyworld maybe?).


Game 3 I CP'd Yoshi Melee and went Marth: moral of the story I sold my soul to the devil for an Fsmash tip at like 30% on bad DI to kill.

 

[Scuba Steve]

I mostly just choose PS2 because I lub that stage

 

[Steel Banana]

Here are some videos of me losing :[

Youngblood v Hamyojo (Sheik, Squirtle)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFDF3Y-3gl4

Youngblood v Zael (Luigi)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRZhrzFnx1w

Youngblood v Infinity (Peach, Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_B12RZY-ec

For the first video (against Hamyojo), I don't think I've played a worse set than this one in a long time. Tech skill felt off, SDs everywhere, general bad defensive and offensive decisions. What advice do you have for when you just feel like you're playing like garbage?

As for the other two, I'd like some advice (aside from less Falcon kick) on the matchups and my playstyle in general.

At the tourney this past Thursday, I got knocked out by two Foxes and realized how much I hate and need to learn that matchup. What are some things Falcon can do to make the fight against Fox less miserable?

 

[DMG]

Hamlin didn't go Yoshi?? Infinity didn't go MK???

I'll watch over some of these. Mostly interested in Infinity and Hamlin, I think I saw your Zael set already, I'll give advice on that while I watch these others:

Luigi:

Spoiler

You need to know where and when to respect his "Luigi-ness". By that, I mean you don't drop shield after the first SH aerial, you get used to his WD distances and space based on that (without committing too early), etc. I think he played a bit better against you in that set, than he did against me at BR14, but you can see a bit of what I'm talking about in my set against him. Game 2 shows it off the best: you can put the brakes on a lot of his activity and force him to play meticulously. Jabs as he slides in with a WD, Knee on shield, etc

Fox:

Spoiler

Some of your stocks went well. Biggest flaws were defensively once you were in a bad spot. In all fairness, it IS Fox and half of the time you should not have good options once a Fox hits you, but there were some areas of improvement to be had. That chain of Usmash's from Infinity in that tech chase for example, you can hold down at lower % and tech in place if they are unaware. Won't be CC but ASDI down, and it forces them to use grabs or other moves more. If you had pulled off a tech in place with holding down on one of those, you could probably have grabbed him for it and turned a **** situation into a fantastic one. Stuff like that you gotta look out for


On shine offstage, if you think it will be a huge threat, try to eat the shine in a way that pushes you towards the wall. This gives you optimal surviving chances, since you might be able to land a walljump. It also might let you sweetspot with reverse Upb on the retry. On 1-2 of his shine attempts, you were holding back to try and avoid him, while if you "passed through", you possibly could have lived being shined towards the wall.

Best DI against Usmash in general is away / the mini angle just below away and just above down + away. You had some that were straight up, or towards Fox, and that's almost never good. Even with nerfed Usmash, he can chain attacks past maybe 30-40% if you don't DI well

General tips:

Spoiler

I'm not too fond of those onstage Side B edgegrabs. You didn't net much from them: in some cases, actually worsening your position for the edgeguard. I would be cautious with them, and probably substitute them with weak knee edgeguards OR subtle re-positioning onstage

If you do a flying Dair, or you expect to land just a tad behind them, it's usually a good idea to turn and face them after the Dair lands. Like at low % situations against Spacies, if you turn around right after the Dair, your options grow or become easier than usual. Grabbing techs in place, jab resetting them for missed techs, etc. You had 1-2 where you landed the Dair, but were still facing the wrong way and had a "standoff" where you tried to read and out-wait his tech choice.

 

[Steel Banana]

Infinity was wanting to go Fox all tourney since he isn't really feeling 3.5 MK and I usually do pretty well against Hamlin's Yoshi so he goes Sheik against me since that's my least favorite matchup, lol.

As for grabbing ledge unnecessarily, I guess I just instinctively grab ledge because I don't want to let Fox sweetspot. I guess I'm not too familiar with the finer intricacies of edgeguarding.

 

[DMG]

I think it's slower than some of his other choices if you get proficient at it. You have both DD - Turn around WD Backwards, or the longer running RAR WD backwards to grab the edge from further out. Side B is probably the slowest edgegrab choice with more risk if they end up grabbing the edge before you do. If you do it, or want to grab the edge in general for edgeguarding, it's not as strong to go for the edge when they are higher up. Gives a better chance that you miss or have to waste time getting off the edge and jumping up for the proper edgeguard.

Sheik is kind of lame MU, I haven't done it much (in PM, I'm probably better at it in Melee despite it being a harder MU tbh) but I'm beyond the skill level of most Sheik players I go against so it's hard to judge. I know and understand when I get lucky on a recovery that "should" have been a death for me but wasn't due to less than accurate needles or more passive edgeguard choices etc. Been awhile since someone pressured me badly with her in PM, might look forward to Hamlin if he's using her for Falcon more in general.

 

[TheKmanOfSmash]

Yo, I have been kind of dead for a while due to school, but I was fortunate enough to get my rusty self out to a regional tournament and get top 8 somehow!

I played Iori, TN's best P:M player in losers. I got 3-0'd, but I think I did pretty well. Anyone mind critiquing it? I've never been too great at Falcon dittos.

Iori vs Kman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qMH_Dy6GOI

 

[DMG]

Uthrow is busted in the Falcon ditto. Almost always Uthrow, even at lower %. Dthrow can be fine if platform is in the way, or if you are near the edge and they can't DI past it etc. Uthrow is just easier to react to their DI choices, since a lot of the time if they don't fully DI away, you get a free regrab or Nair/hit. Where as Dthrow has multiple DI choices that pan out and work fine, especially at lower % where you might not have a regrab on DI inside

The thing about this MU is that while Nair is good in general, you can force the other Falcon player into a tough spot if you make them Nair first and decide to mess with their landing. Frame-wise AND if you space well enough, you can SH Knee into them as they are experiencing landing lag and generally they are forced to shield or insta spotdodge/roll to avoid it. Both situations effective pin down the other Falcon, since you should be able to react to almost any choice except for rolling into you (which then starts to become risky if you empty SH at them after they land with a move).

If you're not sure about the timing or spacing for that (because it's otherwise pretty difficult all things considered), you should still wait for them to Nair and them fly at them with a cross up. The landing lag isn't much, but in a fast ditto it means you get the chance to do SH running Uair, Fair, Dair and cross them up. They won't have the time to dash away, and trades will favor you since his fastest option would probably be Jab etc. If you get the hit or the shield cross up, this could put you in a decent spot.

 

[TheKmanOfSmash]

Thank you very much, DMG. I'll definitely be using a lot more up throw now. I've always relied on down throw tech chases for some reason, but I definitely see the utility of up-throw in this MU.

And yeah, I'll try to work on punishing hairs more like you said.

 

[FalconAnon]

Hey guys, looking to get a couple sets critiqued. I posted this on the PM reddit but I figured I'd probably get some higher level analysis here.

Set 1, vs Chexr's Falco http://youtu.be/0x94iiSHZlA?t=21m5s

Set 2, vs Slayer's Falcon (ignore the G&W match at the end) http://youtu.be/YpoHjSWU0vg?t=2m2s

I appreciate any advice.

 

[Steel Banana]

Here are some of my games from last week and this week's Infinity and Beyond.

Youngblood v Crypsis (Marth [I win this one])
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz1rdb6G1hs
Youngblood v CalmAnimal (Boswer)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXr9RRRDNTA
Youngblood v Lunchables (Roy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFRmJZVMTJU
Youngblood v Zael (Luigi)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLasrn7k3hU

So last week, I choked hard against CalmAnimal, especially since I completely forgot to dthrow instead of uthrow at high percents. I feel like I played well enough to win the first 2 games, and just played dumb in game 3. How do I keep myself from running into stray hits like Bowser's fair. I tried playing extremely defensive but quick pokes (especially from Bowser) just ruin my dash dance.

Against Lunchables, you can tell that I got really nervous and just started making technical errors. I feel like I played semi-well in this set, so I know I can do a lot better if I don't SD 3 times in one game ;P

And against Zael, I have the same problem that I was having against CalmAnimal. His WD > ftilt was throwing me off and making me super scared to get hit by it. I usually use nairs to try to put up a wall, but it seemed like Luigi doesn't really care about my nairs in neutral. Also, 2:46 was just for you guys

 

[DMG]

Bowser: (In all fairness, I usually would use Marth against his Bowser and it worked in the past, but Falcon is certainly doable and we would probably have similar matches with similar strategy in a lot of cases if I were to play CA more.)

Spoiler

Bowser MU you were getting hit because you were too DD focused. The whole point of the DD maneuver against big lugs like Bowser isn't just to bait them out for a response, but to also blatantly run at them with a grab to force the RPS to play out. A lot of your grabs were done from low % aerials or earlier strings that landed and had Bowser in a ton of pressure. You didn't often threaten to just run at him, or run at him after 1 quick DD, and go directly for the grab. If you go back and look, there are points where he not only refuses to react to your DD, but he starts running AT you because he doesn't feel the need to respect your immediate grab option. Game 3 is a prime example of this, he pushed you into the corner when you had 3-4 grab opportunities. Even in the unfortunate event that you end up trading or losing to his attack, taking those chances when his back is against the wall is stronger than having your back against the wall and trying not to lose a life to a 50-60% Fair or Ftilt into edgeguard.


I would say that, along with fairly conservative edgeguarding, are why you lost. Bowser cannot defend himself very well while recovering, and he doesn't have that strong of a mixup game for recovery angles. You can stick out a weak knee or threaten to stomp at many points and it's literally a death sentence. His recovery is very poor for meteor cancelling, and not much mixup potential. You should either fly offstage, or linger onstage near the edge with weak knee, strong knee, stomp, etc. Grabbing the edge was a common choice you picked vs him, but you don't need invincibility to deal with his recovery and moves like reverse Uair or normal Bair probably aren't as lethal. Landing anything else from the edge against his recovery is probably hard to do, while still being able to recover properly yourself if you miss.

Luigi:

Spoiler

Luigi is unique and to play against him properly requires more than just walls with aerials. You have to place your body in precise locations to stop specific threats of his, or have a timing advantage against him. Nair is not the best aerial to wall with, because while it has range it's very tricky to use it 100% in the MU. Randomly having it shielded or traded with is not ideal usually. The best way I can explain to defeat Luigi, is to pick 1 of 2 options: either have your body or attack threaten to stuff his direct WD in, or space at a certain point so that maneuvers like WD Ftilt barely miss and you punish. I generally try to DD or space against the second option, and go in closer if he's pressured not to WD or multi-WD. Once you obtain a spacing or timing where WD in completely loses to any jab, lingering Knee, grab box, etc then it forces Luigi to play a very cerebral type of game where he has to slow down and methodically space + time attacks against Falcon. This favors you because you hold slightly stronger cards and can dictate exactly what spacing is safe for him much easier than he can to you. If Luigi WD's at you, you can dash away or jab or dash thru him etc. If you run at Luigi, reacting with WD back might just lose him space. Doing attacks might lose since you can shield or dash away instantly, no WD lag. Etc


Defensively, you have to strongly mitigate how Luigi combos you. I can't explain it properly at 3AM, but basically you don't want to eat more than 2-3 hits. With good DI and platform management (coupled with CC/ASDI down on platforms for example) this lets you escape otherwise lame situations. Look at my match vs Zael a bit ago on Battlefield. There were some moments where I was forced on a platform, and chose to tech in place or get up in place + combine it with CC/ASDI down and another tech. If you tech roll to the edge of a platform, that means you can hold down and usually tech the Dair/Fair/Nair that comes afterwards and escape the combo. Again, kind of hard to properly explain, but small defensive nuances make a huge difference against that character. Most of the big stuff Zael got on me were 2-3 string hits only. I made him work massively for edgeguards, no early kill setups or edgeguards, etc. Force Luigi to play like a character better than him and his flaws shine thru more.

 

[Steel Banana]

A lot of people always told me to DD camp against Bowser, but I definitely think you're right about needing to put some pressure on so Bowser won't feel free to do what he wants. I'll try it next time I play him for sure. As for edgeguarding, I always find it hard to get a clean hit on Bowser with stomp if he's recovering low enough to sweetspot the ledge, which is why I grab ledge. What can I do (aside from a super risky stomp) to gimp Bowser when he recovers low? Also, will weak knee actually beat out his recovery? I would assume it doesn't but I could be very wrong.

Against Luigi, I feel like I got punished a lot for jumping. So I think I'll try to play a more grounded, shield-based spacing game next time. I don't really know how to put pressure on Luigi, since I can't predict where he's going to be. As for DIing combos, I'm not really sure which way to go for a lot of Luigi's moves, like utilt, dsmash, usmash, or uair.

So when are you gonna come to a tournament that I'm at, DMG? You should come to an InB one Thursday for sure.

 

[DMG]

Bowser:

Spoiler

Weak Knee trounces his recovery. In general, Bowser does not cover his body well horizontally when he does Upb. It's so bad, that many times if you fly horizontally at him with Stomp, he trades hits with you and dies anyways. From above, you win clean usually, or accept a favorable trade. He also can't usually afford to use Fairs or Nairs to fend off aggressive edgeguards, so he usually is quite vulnerable during 2-3 moments of a typical edgeguard. Being onstage, or placing attacks that cover edge sweetspots, is almost always stronger against Bowser because taking the edge usually means he can do Upb earlier and go for a platform, or higher recovery in general.


Punishing that higher onstage mixup choice from the edge, means getting off, trying to knock him off the correct direction (since even Knee at high % might not kill Bowser if he goes cross-stage), etc. If you stay onstage near the edge, or barely off the edge with a knee/stomp hitbox, he has to work pretty hard for mixups since you can adequately cover sweetspots, high choices, and middle onstage landings. My preference is to wait for his DJ, and then decide whether I need to be proactive offstage or hover near the edge. Due to his size and weight, many times that weak knee offstage combos into an Uair and after his DJ this nearly always secures a terrible position for him. You recover/drift sideways faster than he does so you grab the edge first, and he either doesn't make it back or is forced to barely land onstage where you get a free Knee/move.


People are not incorrect in saying you might want to DD Bowser, but it's not properly explained that the maneuver loses its purpose if you don't have the realistic threat of a direct grab/strong attack. You sometimes had great DD spacing that was textbook for how you would want to space, but it lost a lot of effectiveness once he started to read that you were not suddenly going to run in with a grab. You have to keep people honest by going for straight grabs, and Bowser is not one of those tricky offensive characters where he might dash away from you or play a complex neutral against you, so it's ok to go for the grab to force his respect and bait out further reactions later on.

Luigi:

Spoiler

Luigi punishes you for jumping if you are not spaced well. WD Utilt/Ftilt, and normal Utilts beat out many Falcon choices. Luigi has specific timings and spacings you have to look out for. One way to make the MU easier is to space yourself somewhere sandwiched between 1 medium-long WD and 2 medium-long WD's. What that entails is that you are safe against the first WD in, so WD Ftilt or whatever will miss, but then if he goes for another one or dashes towards you, you can stuff that choice with jab/Knee. Nair is much harder to correctly use against him compared to 90% of the cast, so I focus on my exact spacing in regards to what timing opportunity I have. Even stand in place SH Knee can be a legit tool in the MU depending on how you expect his mobility. In general, Knee is a hard tool for Luigi to deal with because despite his shield sliding mechs for approaching, it's almost 100% safe on shield regardless. If he doesn't have forward momentum coming at you, or even negative momentum sliding the other way with his shield, when you knee that sucker he will get boned and lose a lot of offensive opportunity.


How to DI against Luigi is hard to explain for all of his moves, but generally for combo purposes you DI almost along the same direction that they naturally kind of send you. By that, I mean Utilt places you slightly behind Luigi most of the time, so DI full behind for max results. How to DI Dsmash depends on whether he is stationary, or sliding with momentum. Sliding at you with Dsmash, you DI behind him as he keeps sliding forward. Neutral or sliding backwards, you DI away in front of him. The mitigation stuff on platforms is even harder to explain properly, you can watch my match vs him and Sparking to understand what I'm talking about. Find a platform edge to get to, eat their attack while holding down, and slide off perfectly with no hitstun. Stuff like that is great vs Luigi and changes his platform game and combo game quite a bit.

I don't usually come for IaB's. Last one I was at was after LTC2. I might come up on next BR on Valentine's Day? If not, that March Aftershock championship blah blah blah thingy

 

[Scuba Steve]

Some more vids

Vs. Dong (Falco, Luigi) GFs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rttIcPCHIyA

Vs. Fearless (Lucario) LFs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ddAX2tB8sk

Vs. Dong (Luigi, Falco) WFs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awx-5v4IDZU

Vs. Grime (Wolf) WSFs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ySR3LQENqc

Vs. Dex! (Marth) WR3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ6EZuLbCRg

 

[Mystic-]

Vs. Dex! (Marth) WR3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ6EZuLbCRg

First things first, I love your usage of gentlemen. I thought no one else in the world spammed it as much as me but it's sooo good. Anyways, the big things I wanted to say was that your neutral game and ledge game were uninspiring. I'll start with the ledge game. It seems insignificant but in match ups like Sheik/Marth I think hax dashing is broken. I saw you use it a little but perhaps get a a little more comfortable with it?

As far as the neutral game, you were playing it how I play it, just try to run them over. It works on worse people but when you're facing someone a little better some more patience is in order. There's no point in elaborating on it too much since you probably already know this, but full momentum nairs are generally not the best thing vs Marth lol. More DD grabs, less nairing into shield/his sword.

Also, missed l-cancels on dair and Falcons who don't shield drop make me sad. Do you want me to be sad?

 

[DMG]

He was already doing ledge dashes. If you instead mean the original Hax dash, where you jump over the ledge and wavedash backwards to slide off the edge, that's riskier to do against Marth and Sheik due to lingering hitboxes. It's easier for them to hit you for less than perfect timing doing those (assuming you go to the edge afterwards instead of trying to DJ after falling off, that mixup is probably better against characters that can't swat you very easily) than doing the standard ledge drop stall. Ledge dash though is mad good on Falcon so yes that should be used more by all Falcons.


Marth MU is weird, you kind of lose neutral but at the same time you don't? I played m2k's Falcon with Marth at LTC2 for one game in a MM and he played it very interesting. Very cerebral, hard to explain but he wasn't super tricky with DD spacing or anything crazy. Just used moves and approaches efficiently, with good spacing and control of his momentum after jumping. I should have lost that game if he didn't SD or whatever it was that was unfortunate.

 

[Mystic-]

He was already doing ledge dashes. If you mean the original hax dash, where you jump up and wavedash backwards to slide off the edge, that's riskier to do against Marth and Sheik due to lingering hitboxes. It's easier for them to hit you for less than perfect timing doing those, than doing the standard ledge drop stall. Ledge dash though is mad good on Falcon so yes that should be used more by all Falcons.

I meant the actual hax dash, reverse ledge dash etc. Marth doesn't generally have good lingering hitboxes, that's his infamous weakness. If u bait out a move, he's laggy af. And baiting a sheik ftilt when you're on ledge makes your life a lot easier. Falcon's ledge game is absurd if you can mix up your options effectively so I'm just saying that you should use all the options you have. Also, hax dashing isn't that tough to get NEAR frame perfect, there's actually 8 frames you can *** up on iirc, the only frame perfect input is the same one as the drop down jump back up regrab, actually letting go of the ledge on the first possible frame

 

[DMG]

If you don't time them well, they open you up to needles and stuff like Marth Dtilt more than usual. You have to let go of the edge the exact frame it first allows you, to stay invincible until the next edge grab. You place yourself above the edge for a longer portion of time than if you do the traditional ledge drop edgestall, so I wouldn't recommend it unless you can take advantage of the mixups or if your character has a poor normal edge stall (or in Link's case, where he gets his tether count refreshed from briefly touching the stage). Hax dash into DJ to reach BF platform for example. Not all stages have platforms that close to the edges though. Normal ledge dash should get Falcon onto the stage a decent amount with free invincibility.

 

[Scuba Steve]

Marth's dtilt makes me not use haxdashes as often in the MU because it just makes the timing window for a safe one sooooo much stricter

 

[DMG]

Yep. Ledge stall or ledge dash is usually safer to go for if the stage or MU doesn't allow for hax dash mixups very often

 

[Scuba Steve]

more vids

Vs. Black Mamba (Zelda, ROB) Winners Quarters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duvsF3hMCfo

Vs. Dong (Luigi) Winners Semis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMKJA_3YMTE

Vs. Betch (Peach) Losers Semis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1jhhOo12rA&index=16&list=PLv4eSFgqFQmvbEefLDWVsalrz_jX0VSaT

 

[FalconAnon]

Hey guys, looking to get a couple sets critiqued. I posted this on the PM reddit but I figured I'd probably get some higher level analysis here.

Set 1, vs Chexr's Falco http://youtu.be/0x94iiSHZlA?t=21m5s

Set 2, vs Slayer's Falcon (ignore the G&W match at the end) http://youtu.be/YpoHjSWU0vg?t=2m2s

I appreciate any advice.

I don't mean to be that guy, but could I get a critique?

 

[DMG]

I think I watched those already, thought I gave you a reply. I remember you posting right before someone else, guess smashboards ate my post back then.

You're better than the "average" Falcon by a bit. I dunno your background but I am guessing you played Melee for at least awhile. PM exclusive Falcon's don't play like this. Most of your flaws would be minor optimizations for throw choices, timing out a person's invincibility a bit better (at least vs Falco matches you kept going up higher, when you should focus on horizontal spacing more vs him since he covers that spacing slower), slightly better edgeguarding, etc. You're not in the need for a whole lot advice imo: or rather you would benefit from highly specific, time based match analysis where you break down situations hardcore and try to find improvements, rather than more broad concepts. It's a lot of work to put in, I can probably go over at least the Falco video with 15-20 timestamps and explore + articulate what might have been a better option or what you missed.

 

[FalconAnon]

My background actually is PM exclusive, but I got good by studying Hax and lots of Falcon combo videos from Melee. What would you say makes PM exclusive Falcon's different? and are they different in a good or bad way?

If you're up for more detailed analysis, I'd really appreciate it. I know a lot of my problems with the Falco match boiled down to poor punishes because of tech skill errors, that and an almost total lack of DI, but I'm very inexperienced in the spacie matchups, so I'm having a tough time narrowing down what exactly my mistakes are on a deeper level than "I didn't dodge the laser".

 

[DMG]

Well some stuff like using Side B onstage to slide off and grab the edge for an edgeguard, or trying to use Falcon kick more onstage, etc. Not necessarily better or worse, but PM focused Falcon's tend to play differently than those coming from Melee background or more familiar with Melee.

Falco is hard but yeah DI during combos (Shine related stuff especially) goes a long way. Smash DI also forces Falco to work harder: SDI + DI away puts you the furthest away from Falco after Dair and sometimes forces different follow ups besides another Shine. Like having to run after your body and going for a grab or SH aerial. Those tend to be less brutal to deal with than staying in Shine combos. Also, if he lands Dair as his initial approach, try to SDI behind him because a lot of times this can make sloppy spacing miss the Shine and that's huge.


Another helpful thing would be to C-stick buffer rolls OOS occasionally when you're getting massively pressured. Against Spacies, the general rule is if you roll after they Shine your shield, you're about as safe as you can be outside of decently hard reads by the opponent. If done correctly, you get away from Shine grabs on shield, and from multi shines. Only stuff like wavedash after the shine, into a fairly strict dash grab or dash punish will get you. It's not fool-proof or otherwise all top players would strictly be abusing it, but it's a strong option that forces them to respect your defensive options a bit more and debate the mixup game further. Do I shine grab immediately? Do I multi shine? Do I use an aerial early or late on his shield? Etc

(Minor note on the subject of C-stick buffering: you can also buffer jumps OOS flawlessly with C-stick. If you have an OOS punish for a move after it hits your shield, using C-stick to jump OOS is a really helpful tool. It does not fail the input, and does the input on the first frame available if you hold it well in advance. You can jump, spotdodge, and roll with C-stick buffering, and I would get comfortable with it because it opens the game up quite a bit)


If your timing is good, you can use SH Uair and it hits Falco standing up. Forces him to throw out attacks quicker or more often instead of lasers once you get inside a certain spacing, and if you can force him to do those quick reactive choices, you can hopefully find the chance to land a grab or a move of your own. The range right outside or near the tip of Falco's own Nair and Bair is a good range for Falcon, since you can punish certain laser timings from that spot with immediate attacks, you threaten to dash grab him or cover any defensive rolls, you can still hit him with longer reach moves like your own Nair or SH Uair, etc. If you can get comfortable at that range, despite the overall struggle, you'll find yourself doing a lot better vs Falco.


One thing that can help with powershielding is to practice dash-shielding. You cancel your entire dash momentum on the spot with shield. What that also means is that you can dash dance for better spacing and timing against lasers and you might find a pattern or spacing that gives you better PS's. Sometimes I even PS backwards by moonwalking the other direction (but doing a slower or less optimal moonwalk on purpose) so that I can control my spacing relative to the laser. Little tidbits like that can help.

 

[FalconAnon]

I tend not to use Falcon Kick on stage anymore since it got nerfed in 3.5, I used to use it quite a bit back when it had KO power.


I will try focusing more on DI+SDI and smarter rolls OOS. Thanks for the tips, man.

 

[DMG]

Np, spread the Falcon

 

[White Wolf]

Shout outs to DMG getting 4th and Bowser's Revenge yesterday. He upset Dakpo in Losers QF and took a game off of Luck, the diddy player.

 

[DMG]

Yep. Took 4th place money and took the $50 Out of City Bonus for being top placing player outside of DFW

They were gonna rename me DMKnee for how that weekend went lol

 

[Steel Banana]

I was going to wait until the video of you vs Dakpo came out on YouTube, but I really have to know how you approached those matches. I always have a really hard time with G&W, since he can combo Falcon to death, edgeguard extremely reliably, and stuff most of Falcon's approaches. What was going through your head game 3 when you were up 4 stocks to 1, and how did you get there against such a high level G&W?

 

[White Wolf]

Yep. Took 4th place money and took the $50 Out of City Bonus for being top placing player outside of DFW

They were gonna rename me DMKnee for how that weekend went lol

You also looked like you where having a good time, and seemed to be pretty comfortable too. More players in general (k)need to realize how fun just playing super smash bros can be!
EDIT: DMG , you made 98 dollars! That's dope.

 

[DMG]

I'm not gonna john for Dakpo, but he clearly wasn't playing his best many parts in our set. He kept going for some Fthrow setups hoping to catch bad DI, and I managed good DI like 90% of the time. He usually Uthrows more, and lands more devastating combos from grabs, so I wasn't sure why he kept going for Fthrow or for judgment setups. Or when he missed regrabs if I input no DI on Uthrow etc.

Game 1 and 2 were much better. Game 3 was not what either of us were expecting or hoping for I think, so I can't say that lead was just my doing alone.


The MU is very hard, but it's kind of manageable in some aspects because you can pressure G^W into reactive choices that favor you if you can maintain good spacing and timing. You have to trim down his choices to be "either I put out this aerial or tilt, or I'm gonna get swamped as he comes in". Like after a G^W Upb to get away, you pressure him with the threat of Uair to either use an attack or DJ. Once he DJ's, he's lost that as a mixup to escape your pressure and now he just basically has attacks to cover his landing. One scenario in the set, you bait out the attack and punish. The next time, you bait the DJ but then go flying at him before he can cover his landing. You have to mix in what seems reliable, with specific reads that factor in how the entire set has been going. That's something I can't really just explain or impress to other players, you have to experience it and figure it out for yourself. You immerse yourself, your judgement and your predictions based on how they play, what worked or didn't work earlier in the set, how your execution is flowing at that time, etc

 

[Steel Banana]

I noticed his combo game was pretty off and he seemed to be playing not quite as well as he usually does (both in his set vs. you and his set against Strong Bad). Either way, good job for making such an impressive upset happen.

One thing that gets me in the G&W matchup a lot is his pocketful of frame traps. Every time I think G&W is punishable, like when he whiffs an attack, he always has some sort of attack that can come out fast enough to stop me. Also, if G&W uses dair to descend, I don't really know how to punish that conistently (although this might be due to my lack of fighting too many G&Ws)

 

[Dakpo]

I'll play better next time, I'm still learning how to switch between the 3 games and maintain high performance. Saturday was a hard lesson on what I need to remember from switching from smash 4 to PM. I'll be back next time in full force (I hope lol) GGs.

 

[DMG]

One thing that gets me in the G&W matchup a lot is his pocketful of frame traps. Every time I think G&W is punishable, like when he whiffs an attack, he always has some sort of attack that can come out fast enough to stop me. Also, if G&W uses dair to descend, I don't really know how to punish that conistently (although this might be due to my lack of fighting too many G&Ws)

It comes with understanding G^W's attacks. Most of his attacks have cooldown that gets "masked" because his animation looks like the move is still out. If you go into debug mode, or get extensive experience involving the character (I played him in Brawl a lot for teams and during the early days for singles, so I have a general idea of when his hitboxes actually disappear) you will gain an understanding on when they actually first end. The only moves that go against that trend is his Fair and Ftilt: those moves will legit linger for a pretty long time. Everything else from Dtilt to Bair will end before the animation goes away. When you have that remembered, you can have the faith to run in and dash grab a Bair/Dtilt, or running SH stomp over him on the ground, or challenge Dair from much higher up when you get near the end of the animation etc


G&W appears that "frame-trappy" way, but he's actually limited because if he consistently commits to covering himself with back to back attacks or options, generally that means he's not moving around so it becomes a timing issue for you to punish. If your timing and knowledge is good enough, you break through and get a decent punish. Because of that, you can force them to play more conservatively with reactive defensive options and not mindlessly stack Dtilt to Jab or "Attack into X choice". The only one that stays good most of the time is Upb OOS and Dtilt once Falcon commits to a certain range. Close range Dtilt is hard to beat, but from midrange you can punish it or get legit pressure. Same is true for many of his moves if your DD spacing and timing is tight.

 

[White Wolf]

Couple of sets from most recent tourney
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpaxcThOPwQ (Style)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlzfpWFsHy8 (fraudulent)
Any critique is welcome.