Show me your moves - Captain Falcon video thread

[-Fatality-]

I honestly wonder about falcons viability but I hope you can make something happen for him to bring him way into the spotlight. Watching your set vs Esam makes it feel like an insanely difficult character to play because of projectile characters, but other times it seems like such a breeze just comboing someone into a knee for a stock

I won't deny playing Falcon is a hard life, and I didn't have a good solution to ESAM's missile game at the time, but I'm going to a regional this Saturday with ESAM and I've developed some (I think) great strategies to combat him this time. It's hard as hell, but I think I can make it work against him and other top players eventually. I'll make a post about the tourney in the Falcon social thread if you or anyone else want to watch it live on stream.

 

[KimSuhanmu]

I won't deny playing Falcon is a hard life, and I didn't have a good solution to ESAM's missile game at the time, but I'm going to a regional this Saturday with ESAM and I've developed some (I think) great strategies to combat him this time. It's hard as hell, but I think I can make it work against him and other top players eventually. I'll make a post about the tourney in the Falcon social thread if you or anyone else want to watch it live on stream.

The way you keep striving to improve and look for more ways to up your game really impresses me man, you're somewhat becoming my idle.. I'll be looking for your videos to learn from. Hopefully I can be as good as you someday. I'll be looking forward to your match vs Esam :D good luck man

 

[KimSuhanmu]

I won't deny playing Falcon is a hard life, and I didn't have a good solution to ESAM's missile game at the time, but I'm going to a regional this Saturday with ESAM and I've developed some (I think) great strategies to combat him this time. It's hard as hell, but I think I can make it work against him and other top players eventually. I'll make a post about the tourney in the Falcon social thread if you or anyone else want to watch it live on stream.

The way you keep striving to improve and look for more ways to up your game really impresses me man, you're somewhat becoming my idle.. I'll be looking for your videos to learn from. Hopefully I can be as good as you someday. I'll be looking forward to your match vs Esam :D good luck man

 

[Chaloopy]

 

[-Fatality-]

Honestly, I only play Falcon in PM/Melee, and probably won't play him in Smash 4, I just put that there to illustrate just how much I love this character, lol. More footage of my Falcon is coming this weekend when I go to Smash Carolina V, a South Carolina regional featuring ESAM and others.

 

[KimSuhanmu]

Me vs Searing Sorrow's Diddy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI6syfO1c4Y
Me vs Lethal's Link and Roy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY6KdlcKbTk
I should really get a combo video with material like this.

make one

 

[Scuba Steve]

Got some stuff from a monthly that I did all right at. The internet at the venue was all ****ed during my matches, so that's the reason that the sets are split up.


Vs. Eclipse Kirby's Roy part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n49Wv7WYleM

Vs. Eclipse Kirby's Roy part 2 (SOUND WARNING. TURN YOUR VOLUME DOWN FOR THE FIRST COUPLE OF SECONDS)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOcci6laOCY

Vs. Betch's Ness part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV4EwMWdNpQ

Vs. Betch's Ness and Peach part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0AgYrQLg7A


The videos from GFs aren't up, but I'll post them when they are. I'm trying to work in shield drops and wavedashes OoS into my game because good players like Eclipse abuse the fact that I'm ****ty at getting out of my shield a lot lol. Any critique is appreciated. Tell me why I suck

 

[Scuba Steve]

Videos from a weekly

Vs. Dong's Luigi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvBWq2q7OKU

Vs. Wooks' Ness/Pit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORuDhkrEGtw

Vs. Skeith's Link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot9_RF3xwSg

 

[Deleted member]

Winners Bracket match from Infinity and Beyond! 26

Scotch vs Youngblood [Winner's Round 1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNTGFfgXZk4

Personally, I do not own P:M at home, and practice with Melee Falcon then apply it to P:M Falcon.

Also, baited a ****ton and punished badly.

 

[-Fatality-]

Here's a short but sweet clip of me fighting NC's best PM player at Smash Carolina V recently, full matches should be uploaded to Youtube soon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8OlgMTb8qk&list=UUeEmNV3hedlkiiVQIcP58IQ

 

[-Fatality-]

Videos from Smash Carolina V are finally up!
Winner's Finals against ESAM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGpAnnFbezs&list=UUeEmNV3hedlkiiVQIcP58IQ
Loser's Finals against Stingers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hswRfue3OI&index=6&list=UUeEmNV3hedlkiiVQIcP58IQ

My performance against ESAM was vastly improved from when I fought him at Tipped Off X, Grand Finals was not played as ESAM and I agreed to have whoever won Winner's Finals would win the tourney to save time since this event went way past schedule. If you have any advice for me, I'd love to hear it!

 

[Scuba Steve]

Won a weekly with 48 entrants last week. Felt like I played pretty sloppy, but I still got the dubya, so I guess it's whatever

Vs. Tikobroje (Wario), Winners Round 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sJILDQFVp0

Vs. DA (Lucas/GnW), Winners Quarters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdvnCC-dBzU

Vs. EclipseKirby (Roy), Winners Semis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CauJ9ilCTRA

Vs. Betch (Peach), Winners Finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxzk-MSyiu4

Vs. EclipseKirby (Roy), Grand Finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEhc4qfNHyU

 

[DMG]

Damn everybody is taking Austin's money! Good stuff, did you drop Ganon for the Douglas?

 

[Scuba Steve]

Does it count if I'm from Austin? Yeah, I realized that the way that I wanted to play Ganon was better suited for Falcon and I haven't looked back since.

 

[DMG]

It counts even more if you're Austin. I keep thinking you're CStat though, same with Shokio.

 

[-Fatality-]

Vids from a tournament yesterday are up! Featuring Georgia's best DK player, and TheReflexWonder.
Winner's SemisVs Brass Monkey's DK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv1OdQkLXpQ&index=11&list=UUjI60POez1Z6M9XhTdJ7XlQ
Winner's Finals Vs TheReflexWonder's Wario: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roAmXf8RaG4&index=8&list=UUjI60POez1Z6M9XhTdJ7XlQ
Loser's Finals Vs Brass Monkey's DK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XSq7CKjO7o&list=UUjI60POez1Z6M9XhTdJ7XlQ&index=5
Grand Finals Vs TheReflexWonder's Wario and Ivysaur: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWKzG1ArfLM&list=UUjI60POez1Z6M9XhTdJ7XlQ&index=2

Aside from all my terrible tech errors in Winner's Finals, notice anything I can do to up my game?

 

[Scuba Steve]

Monthly in Austin with some games against Sethlon. Sethlon is pretty good at this game and makes you feel bad when you play him.

Vs. Sethlon (Roy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf2dUTZkrTU

Vs. Dong (Luigi)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIKfp87q3Uk

Vs. DA (Diddy, GnW)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyWM6FzZVPg

Vs. Beard (Mewtwo)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diTDrbyKczA

 

[DMG]

Ya Sethlon is very strong at the MU. Falcon probably legit loses that MU in PM now. I consider myself fortunate if I can even get him down to his last stock, SD's or big mistakes on his part included

 

[Scuba Steve]

There was one moment where I realized just how outclassed I was in game 2. I had been tech chasing a bunch with dthrows and I noticed that he was getting away from my tech chase regrabs by going for no tech options. Thinking I was super clever, I went all Sheik mode and dthrowed to a jab reset. Sethlon was already so prepared for it that he SDI'd it up on reaction. He basically adapted to my adaptation before I even adapted lol

 

[DMG]

Dude is a monster

 

[Scuba Steve]

He punishes mistakes so hard
Like it won't even be just a combo. He just sort of chokes away all of your options until you're dead and then you die a little bit on the inside. Super nice guy, though. He's just ruthless in the game

 

[Steel Banana]

Vids from a tournament yesterday are up! Featuring Georgia's best DK player, and TheReflexWonder.
Winner's SemisVs Brass Monkey's DK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv1OdQkLXpQ&index=11&list=UUjI60POez1Z6M9XhTdJ7XlQ
Winner's Finals Vs TheReflexWonder's Wario: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roAmXf8RaG4&index=8&list=UUjI60POez1Z6M9XhTdJ7XlQ
Loser's Finals Vs Brass Monkey's DK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XSq7CKjO7o&list=UUjI60POez1Z6M9XhTdJ7XlQ&index=5
Grand Finals Vs TheReflexWonder's Wario and Ivysaur: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWKzG1ArfLM&list=UUjI60POez1Z6M9XhTdJ7XlQ&index=2

Aside from all my terrible tech errors in Winner's Finals, notice anything I can do to up my game?

I'll give feedback as I watch them and I'll try to go into as much depth as possible.
Winner's Semis:

• Very good DDing, OoS responses, and combo game.
• Your edgeguarding was a bit off, considering edgeguarding DK is pretty straightforward. Stomp is almost always the right option, especially if you use your ledge invincibility to make it extremely safe. It puts DK below the ledge, where he is dead 99% of the time. Since his upB has no upward hitboxes, its also pretty safe to land (unlike the bair that cost you your first stock). It can be risky if you miss, so be careful with the timing.
• Your footstool shenanigans onstage never really lead to much, aside from him missing the punish on your stomps. I'm not sure how good of an option footstool dair is, since it seems to only be good if the opponent is completely thrown off by it. Basically, its a gimmick and I think you shouldn't go for it against higher level players (especially since it won't even be an option anymore in 3.5). The footstools did, however, give you advantageous (or at least unexpected) positioning in a situation where you otherwise would have been just next to his shield. I'm not entirely sure what you can do from that position, but your opponent probably doesn't have a plan for that situation either.
• That final walljump kill was pretty slick. I'm gonna have to try to use that.

Winner's Finals:

• You HAD game 1. I hate when one tech mistake loses an entire game for you.
• You went for some really unsafe sideB recovery options sometimes, especially against an edgeguarding powerhouse like Wario. An example is at 1:51, when you should have gone for the ledge instead of the stage (may have been a tech error) and again at the end of game 1 (even though your options were a little limited, an airdodge or a sweetspotted reverse upB would have been better).
• Your aerial footstool to tech read combos were pretty effective and relatively safe. Definitely a good combo option in that scenario. Not sure if it's the best option, but its hard to say. For example, at 2:13 you may have gotten more mileage out of another uair instead of the footstool.
• At 2:20, you took your eyes off Wario. When you're offstage, always be careful of Wario throwing out his sideB. It can't really be challenged effectively without trading, in which case you die. There are zones to stay away from when recovering against Wario. Be careful of sideB off the ledge and dair from above (although sometimes you can't do anything about the dair, like at the end of game 3).
• Your whiffed dair to gentleman followup was pretty impressive. I need to start doing that apparently.
• Your recovery around 5:48 is an extremely good recovery option against Wario, also the uair interception was a really good edgeguarding tool, since it outranges most of Wario's options.
• Game 3 on Battlefield, you missed a lot of tech (which happens) but right before you lost your 2nd stock, you tried to spike him offstage. Wario is one of those characters that doesn't care about your sideB since his moves will outprioritize it and his aerial mobility allows him to hit you during the startup pretty easily. You shouldn't try that against Wario, Shiek, Samus, etc. since you will more than likely lose.
• Shield grabbing Wario after his aerials is extremely risky, since (like Puff) he can drift backward after the hit and retaliate quickly.
• Sometimes, you committed too hard to offstage followups (like your first stock loss on game 5). Be careful of these and don't be afraid to back out of a followup that isn't going as planned.
• Be careful when shielding while on a platform above Wario, the bite is usually coming.
• Overall, your combo game was on point, but your multiple SDs and technical errors cost you the set. I definitely think you could have won.

Loser's Finals:

• Amazing pressure game. Brass Monkey had no idea how to deal with Falcon when you were constantly in his face.
• At 0:47, a bair or stomp would have been a much better option since he wasn't above you. Luckily you redeemed the edgeguard seconds later with a really well placed stomp.
• The sideB at 1:11 worked, but I would really suggest being more careful with that move. If he had kept shielding instead of going for the grab, it could have ended badly. You initiated the move before he even started to grab, so you were really just banking on the chance that he would throw something out. I always advise against just throwing out unsafe moves without knowing 100% that they will hit.
• That combo at 1:46... absolutely perfect.
• At 2:13, you can see why patience is extremely important when edgeguarding DK. I haven't played enough good DKs to confidently say what your best option was at that point, since patience can also lead to missing an opportunity. I do think uair was a good option, he just spaced his recovery very well.
• OMG, game 2 that Ground Pound from DK at 3:58... I think you had the right idea, although I think the fact that he can trap you like that is dumb.
• Good set. You were definitely the better player and it showed.

Grand Finals:

• Game 1 you started off really shaky, but Reflex was also playing really on point. Good stuff bringing it back (especially with that clutch dair evasion after getting footstooled).
• At 3:42, I'm not sure if that sideB was on purpose, but if it was, don't do that. You will never get anything out an aerial sideB onstage, especially at low percents.
• I have no idea what Reflex was thinking with his stage choice for game 2.. GHZ is usually one of my preferred stages against Wario, but he won that game anyway so maybe he knows something I don't.
• In game 2, your movement was somewhat predictable and you could tell Reflex took advantage of that. You did much better with this in game 3, which definitely helped you get that W.
• Ok, he just switched to Ivysaur and wow his Ivysaur is good. I play against Denti, so I'm used to fighting good Ivysaurs.
• He was applying more pressure than you were in game 1. Ivy doesn't have many reliable ways to deal with constant pressure, especially since her shield grab is horrendous, so I would suggest applying more pressure.
• At 17:37, hold the ledge until you see him reel in, then punish with uair. It should cover all of his options and set you up for a nice combo.
• Your combo game started off pretty weak on the Pokemon Stadium match, but you picked it up toward the end. Sometimes, you would have the opportunity to grab Ivy, but would go for something else instead. Dthrow knee on Ivy is devastating at mid-high percents and can lead to huge combos at low percents (as you definitely know), so try to grab Ivy more often.
• 21:47, that random knee in neutral was very predictable. I do stuff like that all the time and the top players in my area always comment on how predictable and punishable it is.
• Something I noticed in game 3 is that whenever you don't have platforms, you play a lot more aggressively. Throughout the entire match on GHZ, you were approaching pretty recklessly and lost because of it. Falcon still has a lot of tricky movement options on flat stages. It seems like Reflex noticed this too, since he stopped banning FD right after that game.
• Hmm.. it seems like its just GHZ that you play more aggressively, not just stages without platforms. You played really smart on FD and I think the width of the stage had a lot to do with it. I guess the lesson here is to be careful of stages that don't give you room to breathe against Wario, whether horizontal or vertical. Maybe when you play on GHZ next time, try to use the platform to help your movement.
• Good response to Ivy's nair pressure at 27:48. Ivy's nair is one of her best moves against Falcon (I have a lot of trouble dealing with it sometimes) and I think you handled it perfectly here.
• You're letting Ivy recover for free. Grab ledge (but be careful of getting hit by her fair) and wait for her to reel in.
• At 28:52, never choose the sideB recovery option. Ivy is not afraid of that move at all. Recovering high to avoid bair should be your top priority. In fact, that could have saved your last stock.
• Overall you played really well and I think you can definitely come back and win next time.

Sorry if this is information overload, but hopefully I've given you some feedback you can use to improve your Falcon. Next time I post a video here, I'd love to hear your feedback since you're one of my favorite PM Falcon players right now. Anyways, let me know if I helped you out and I look forward to seeing how your Falcon develops. Good luck!

 

[-Fatality-]

I'll give feedback as I watch them and I'll try to go into as much depth as possible.
Winner's Semis:

• Very good DDing, OoS responses, and combo game.
• Your edgeguarding was a bit off, considering edgeguarding DK is pretty straightforward. Stomp is almost always the right option, especially if you use your ledge invincibility to make it extremely safe. It puts DK below the ledge, where he is dead 99% of the time. Since his upB has no upward hitboxes, its also pretty safe to land (unlike the bair that cost you your first stock). It can be risky if you miss, so be careful with the timing.
• Your footstool shenanigans onstage never really lead to much, aside from him missing the punish on your stomps. I'm not sure how good of an option footstool dair is, since it seems to only be good if the opponent is completely thrown off by it. Basically, its a gimmick and I think you shouldn't go for it against higher level players (especially since it won't even be an option anymore in 3.5). The footstools did, however, give you advantageous (or at least unexpected) positioning in a situation where you otherwise would have been just next to his shield. I'm not entirely sure what you can do from that position, but your opponent probably doesn't have a plan for that situation either.
• That final walljump kill was pretty slick. I'm gonna have to try to use that.

Winner's Finals:

• You HAD game 1. I hate when one tech mistake loses an entire game for you.
• You went for some really unsafe sideB recovery options sometimes, especially against an edgeguarding powerhouse like Wario. An example is at 1:51, when you should have gone for the ledge instead of the stage (may have been a tech error) and again at the end of game 1 (even though your options were a little limited, an airdodge or a sweetspotted reverse upB would have been better).
• Your aerial footstool to tech read combos were pretty effective and relatively safe. Definitely a good combo option in that scenario. Not sure if it's the best option, but its hard to say. For example, at 2:13 you may have gotten more mileage out of another uair instead of the footstool.
• At 2:20, you took your eyes off Wario. When you're offstage, always be careful of Wario throwing out his sideB. It can't really be challenged effectively without trading, in which case you die. There are zones to stay away from when recovering against Wario. Be careful of sideB off the ledge and dair from above (although sometimes you can't do anything about the dair, like at the end of game 3).
• Your whiffed dair to gentleman followup was pretty impressive. I need to start doing that apparently.
• Your recovery around 5:48 is an extremely good recovery option against Wario, also the uair interception was a really good edgeguarding tool, since it outranges most of Wario's options.
• Game 3 on Battlefield, you missed a lot of tech (which happens) but right before you lost your 2nd stock, you tried to spike him offstage. Wario is one of those characters that doesn't care about your sideB since his moves will outprioritize it and his aerial mobility allows him to hit you during the startup pretty easily. You shouldn't try that against Wario, Shiek, Samus, etc. since you will more than likely lose.
• Shield grabbing Wario after his aerials is extremely risky, since (like Puff) he can drift backward after the hit and retaliate quickly.
• Sometimes, you committed too hard to offstage followups (like your first stock loss on game 5). Be careful of these and don't be afraid to back out of a followup that isn't going as planned.
• Be careful when shielding while on a platform above Wario, the bite is usually coming.
• Overall, your combo game was on point, but your multiple SDs and technical errors cost you the set. I definitely think you could have won.

Loser's Finals:

• Amazing pressure game. Brass Monkey had no idea how to deal with Falcon when you were constantly in his face.
• At 0:47, a bair or stomp would have been a much better option since he wasn't above you. Luckily you redeemed the edgeguard seconds later with a really well placed stomp.
• The sideB at 1:11 worked, but I would really suggest being more careful with that move. If he had kept shielding instead of going for the grab, it could have ended badly. You initiated the move before he even started to grab, so you were really just banking on the chance that he would throw something out. I always advise against just throwing out unsafe moves without knowing 100% that they will hit.
• That combo at 1:46... absolutely perfect.
• At 2:13, you can see why patience is extremely important when edgeguarding DK. I haven't played enough good DKs to confidently say what your best option was at that point, since patience can also lead to missing an opportunity. I do think uair was a good option, he just spaced his recovery very well.
• OMG, game 2 that Ground Pound from DK at 3:58... I think you had the right idea, although I think the fact that he can trap you like that is dumb.
• Good set. You were definitely the better player and it showed.

Grand Finals:

• Game 1 you started off really shaky, but Reflex was also playing really on point. Good stuff bringing it back (especially with that clutch dair evasion after getting footstooled).
• At 3:42, I'm not sure if that sideB was on purpose, but if it was, don't do that. You will never get anything out an aerial sideB onstage, especially at low percents.
• I have no idea what Reflex was thinking with his stage choice for game 2.. GHZ is usually one of my preferred stages against Wario, but he won that game anyway so maybe he knows something I don't.
• In game 2, your movement was somewhat predictable and you could tell Reflex took advantage of that. You did much better with this in game 3, which definitely helped you get that W.
• Ok, he just switched to Ivysaur and wow his Ivysaur is good. I play against Denti, so I'm used to fighting good Ivysaurs.
• He was applying more pressure than you were in game 1. Ivy doesn't have many reliable ways to deal with constant pressure, especially since her shield grab is horrendous, so I would suggest applying more pressure.
• At 17:37, hold the ledge until you see him reel in, then punish with uair. It should cover all of his options and set you up for a nice combo.
• Your combo game started off pretty weak on the Pokemon Stadium match, but you picked it up toward the end. Sometimes, you would have the opportunity to grab Ivy, but would go for something else instead. Dthrow knee on Ivy is devastating at mid-high percents and can lead to huge combos at low percents (as you definitely know), so try to grab Ivy more often.
• 21:47, that random knee in neutral was very predictable. I do stuff like that all the time and the top players in my area always comment on how predictable and punishable it is.
• Something I noticed in game 3 is that whenever you don't have platforms, you play a lot more aggressively. Throughout the entire match on GHZ, you were approaching pretty recklessly and lost because of it. Falcon still has a lot of tricky movement options on flat stages. It seems like Reflex noticed this too, since he stopped banning FD right after that game.
• Hmm.. it seems like its just GHZ that you play more aggressively, not just stages without platforms. You played really smart on FD and I think the width of the stage had a lot to do with it. I guess the lesson here is to be careful of stages that don't give you room to breathe against Wario, whether horizontal or vertical. Maybe when you play on GHZ next time, try to use the platform to help your movement.
• Good response to Ivy's nair pressure at 27:48. Ivy's nair is one of her best moves against Falcon (I have a lot of trouble dealing with it sometimes) and I think you handled it perfectly here.
• You're letting Ivy recover for free. Grab ledge (but be careful of getting hit by her fair) and wait for her to reel in.
• At 28:52, never choose the sideB recovery option. Ivy is not afraid of that move at all. Recovering high to avoid bair should be your top priority. In fact, that could have saved your last stock.
• Overall you played really well and I think you can definitely come back and win next time.

Sorry if this is information overload, but hopefully I've given you some feedback you can use to improve your Falcon. Next time I post a video here, I'd love to hear your feedback since you're one of my favorite PM Falcon players right now. Anyways, let me know if I helped you out and I look forward to seeing how your Falcon develops. Good luck!

Yeah, Reflex is still the best Wario and Ivysaur player in the world, he just doesn't really travel anymore so people have forgotten just how much of a powerhouse he is. Quite a lot of input to look over too which is an unexpected treat. Regarding a lot of my footstool stuff, since it's frame 1, there are a lot of instances where it's your only guaranteed way to continue a combo string, and even if they tech roll or whatever, if you FF down with them, you can just tech chase them most of the time. By doing this a good bit, you can make them adjust their tech timing, and then do stuff like mix them up dair which they will likely fail to tech and jab-reset or whatever.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Brass monkey is going to hate you for it, just saw a combo extender from your video that means I won't have to rely on d.I traps on him anymore, thanks. And next time let's get some matches on stream after warmups fatality, playing against Reflex's wario and your falcon was enough fun to wake up through the drive there. But in spite of the result, not taking wario to fod again, that stage was made for him, and the struggle was real, didn't know wario could sh command grab through platforms too. Also, your not getting yoshi island in a set, auto ban.

 

[Steel Banana]

Got 5th at a weekly last Thursday and got a bunch of streamed matches!

Vs. Shokio (Roy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-_B58H11pI

Vs. Infinity (Metaknight)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kG5gqjyiWE

Vs. Disafter (Spacies)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy1JUzLd4o4

I felt sloppy vs. Shokio, but I'm starting to get comfortable with that matchup. The other two videos, on the other hand, are matchups I know almost nothing about. Infinity is the only MK I've ever played and I've only taken 1 game off of him out of the 3 times I played him in tournament. I HATE the spacies and really have no idea how to fight them since I never played melee and there aren't many spacies in DFW.

Anyone got some tips for me? Specifically, what is the next thing I should work on/practice in order to take my Falcon to the next level?
Thanks in advance :]

 

[DMG]

Edit: this is a very long post so I will split it up into spoilers.

MK vs Falcon:

Spoiler

MK vs Falcon is hard. I can't explain how to do it, besides baiting hard. Most MK options beat Falcon's options, but you can try to outplay them and get significant punishes. One example would be MK's Usmash: it will stuff literally any jumping or approaching attempt Falcon does. It even has enough horizontal range to beat Falcon's running grab. If you can bait out that Usmash however, you get a free grab/stomp/etc. The MU highly depends on getting moments and reads like that correct, because you will get bopped otherwise. I'm not surprised you didn't do so well vs Infinity, I usually try Marth or Fox since they have easier MU's. Most of our friendlies that I have tried out Falcon, I have lost. Maybe a couple of them I get him down to his last stock, but it's rough. I'd probably have to play him and record it/have you watch to get a proper idea of what to look for in the MU, since it's not easy to explain very well (at least for me). I dunno who else has decent MK experience, can't think of any that play with K9 or Plup a lot etc

You vs Disafter:

Spoiler

Disafter will also probably reliably beat you with Spacies until you get a really strong grip on dealing with them. I usually don't see his Spacies since I play Marth mostly vs him, and he's not always on point with them or will use other chars (shuffling through a couple different characters in PM so far from what I recall). His Fox was doing pretty good from that vid, but you're right that there are not many spacie players in DFW.

Vs Roy:

Spoiler

Vs Roy, do not use Nair as much. Using Nair usually leads to Roy going into CC mode and doing Dtilt, which is hard for Falcon to recover from. Sethlon legitimately 0-death's Falcon's and Spacies from CC Dtilt options after they come in with an aerial that is easy to CC. I recommend using stomp and grabs more than Nair, since those options deal with CC and have their own benefits (stomp can have you go over sloppy Dtilt attempts from Roy, whiffed moves might be easy to punish with grab, etc)

Tips:

Spoiler

The main thing I notice in general is that I think you sometimes place Falcon in sloppy spacing or movement choices once your combo gets going. There are a couple of times where say you Uthrow and without extreme DI, they will land on a platform above you. A few times, you will run full speed forward and then correct this by trying to jump or DJ onto the platform to punish their tech options. The smarter thing to do might be to just normally jump and slightly drift forward to cover their tech options. You're placing him too aggressively forward, or dashing/jumping "too soon" and this is very apparent when it comes to your choices after throws.


One tip I would have for that (especially after throws that will lead into tech chases or platform traps AND they do not fully DI away), is to walk after your throw instead of starting off with a dash. Captain Falcon can cover most characters when they tech roll away from him: it's very rare that you have to do a throw and then immediately sprint forward just to cover the tech away option. Spacies at very low % out of Dthrow, super heavies out of Dthrow at 0%, etc. Generally, you can encroach on their space slower or with delayed timings and still cover them appropriately. You can play Falcon "reactionary" against a lot of tech options, but by dashing forward very soon that is a committal that may be hard to re-adjust or correct.

Extended Tips:

Spoiler

A decent example would be Sethlon: watch him Fthrow people and wait for their tech option. He may read that you will tech away and run immediately, but the vast majority of the time he starts walking from the throw or doing a non-dash option. Dash covers distance, but may lead to awkward spacing, and I think that awkward spacing happens to you a lot whenever you start shifting engines from neutral to punishment. It doesn't happen as much from combo starters or strings, but I see that happen quite a bit out of throws. Also, to cover people on fairly low platforms, I almost never DJ with an aerial. A full hop generally takes care of any issues, and lets me better choose which aerial I want. If you sloppy DJ for platforms that are PS2 height, you may find Dair to be the only thing that will work smoothly and it will be a limiter.


Another thing would be dashing too far back during DD's. It's a common mistake/habit that can be very hard to break: I still deal with that as an issue that I haven't completely resolved. You give up a lot of offensive pressure and flexibility if you go too far back, since it's easier for opponents to deal with a Captain Falcon that's at a further range and has to take time to come at them. Many times, even after say a gentlemen that landed, you had that habit of dashing back a pretty notable distance and then going into DD. I'd work on tighter DD timings or spacings so that you can keep your edge and your pressure up at crucial points. This also will help with tech chases and the like, since if you get "fooled" with a direction, you probably won't be dashing too far in the wrong direction.

 

[Steel Banana]

Edit: this is a very long post so I will split it up into spoilers.

MK vs Falcon:

Spoiler

MK vs Falcon is hard. I can't explain how to do it, besides baiting hard. Most MK options beat Falcon's options, but you can try to outplay them and get significant punishes. One example would be MK's Usmash: it will stuff literally any jumping or approaching attempt Falcon does. It even has enough horizontal range to beat Falcon's running grab. If you can bait out that Usmash however, you get a free grab/stomp/etc. The MU highly depends on getting moments and reads like that correct, because you will get bopped otherwise. I'm not surprised you didn't do so well vs Infinity, I usually try Marth or Fox since they have easier MU's. Most of our friendlies that I have tried out Falcon, I have lost. Maybe a couple of them I get him down to his last stock, but it's rough. I'd probably have to play him and record it/have you watch to get a proper idea of what to look for in the MU, since it's not easy to explain very well (at least for me). I dunno who else has decent MK experience, can't think of any that play with K9 or Plup a lot etc

You vs Disafter:

Spoiler

Disafter will also probably reliably beat you with Spacies until you get a really strong grip on dealing with them. I usually don't see his Spacies since I play Marth mostly vs him, and he's not always on point with them or will use other chars (shuffling through a couple different characters in PM so far from what I recall). His Fox was doing pretty good from that vid, but you're right that there are not many spacie players in DFW.

Vs Roy:

Spoiler

Vs Roy, do not use Nair as much. Using Nair usually leads to Roy going into CC mode and doing Dtilt, which is hard for Falcon to recover from. Sethlon legitimately 0-death's Falcon's and Spacies from CC Dtilt options after they come in with an aerial that is easy to CC. I recommend using stomp and grabs more than Nair, since those options deal with CC and have their own benefits (stomp can have you go over sloppy Dtilt attempts from Roy, whiffed moves might be easy to punish with grab, etc)

Tips:

Spoiler

The main thing I notice in general is that I think you sometimes place Falcon in sloppy spacing or movement choices once your combo gets going. There are a couple of times where say you Uthrow and without extreme DI, they will land on a platform above you. A few times, you will run full speed forward and then correct this by trying to jump or DJ onto the platform to punish their tech options. The smarter thing to do might be to just normally jump and slightly drift forward to cover their tech options. You're placing him too aggressively forward, or dashing/jumping "too soon" and this is very apparent when it comes to your choices after throws.


One tip I would have for that (especially after throws that will lead into tech chases or platform traps AND they do not fully DI away), is to walk after your throw instead of starting off with a dash. Captain Falcon can cover most characters when they tech roll away from him: it's very rare that you have to do a throw and then immediately sprint forward just to cover the tech away option. Spacies at very low % out of Dthrow, super heavies out of Dthrow at 0%, etc. Generally, you can encroach on their space slower or with delayed timings and still cover them appropriately. You can play Falcon "reactionary" against a lot of tech options, but by dashing forward very soon that is a committal that may be hard to re-adjust or correct.

Extended Tips:

Spoiler

A decent example would be Sethlon: watch him Fthrow people and wait for their tech option. He may read that you will tech away and run immediately, but the vast majority of the time he starts walking from the throw or doing a non-dash option. Dash covers distance, but may lead to awkward spacing, and I think that awkward spacing happens to you a lot whenever you start shifting engines from neutral to punishment. It doesn't happen as much from combo starters or strings, but I see that happen quite a bit out of throws. Also, to cover people on fairly low platforms, I almost never DJ with an aerial. A full hop generally takes care of any issues, and lets me better choose which aerial I want. If you sloppy DJ for platforms that are PS2 height, you may find Dair to be the only thing that will work smoothly and it will be a limiter.


Another thing would be dashing too far back during DD's. It's a common mistake/habit that can be very hard to break: I still deal with that as an issue that I haven't completely resolved. You give up a lot of offensive pressure and flexibility if you go too far back, since it's easier for opponents to deal with a Captain Falcon that's at a further range and has to take time to come at them. Many times, even after say a gentlemen that landed, you had that habit of dashing back a pretty notable distance and then going into DD. I'd work on tighter DD timings or spacings so that you can keep your edge and your pressure up at crucial points. This also will help with tech chases and the like, since if you get "fooled" with a direction, you probably won't be dashing too far in the wrong direction.

Wow, this is all great. I'd never even thought of a lot of this. Sad news about the MK matchup, but I'll just have to play smarter and more consistent (and maybe wait for 3.5.. lol). I've beaten Infinity before so I know I can do it. As for spacies, I really just hate fighting them (especially Falco) and so I end up just relying on nairs to protect myself, which gets me in trouble a lot. I'll just have to grind out a lot of Falco matches to see what I can learn.

I had never considered the positional disadvantage I was putting myself in from preemptively dashing out of throws, but now that you bring it up, I definitely see it and I'll try to keep that in mind when I grab someone. Also I instinctively double jump a lot, which is on of my worst habits that I always forget to iron out.

Thanks DMG, this was all really helpful!

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Polite critiquing given in a non-condescending manner with actually helpful advice, followed by a classful response of gratitude and aspirations of becoming a better player... Who are you people , this isn't smash boards etiquette.

 

[Scuba Steve]

DMG is a top tier poster

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

I may have to start posting in the falcon section to get helpful advice on how to approach matchups. Hopefully at least one has a pocket diddy, I only practice aerials with falcon cause the punish game of falcon is so good, finding ways to recreate his combos with my mains turns matchups heavily in my favor.

 

[-Fatality-]

As for spacies, I really just hate fighting them (especially Falco) and so I end up just relying on nairs to protect myself, which gets me in trouble a lot. I'll just have to grind out a lot of Falco matches to see what I can learn.

One useful tidbit, when you get a grab, d-throw tech chase them for regrabs, and get at least one pummel each time you grab them, all the extra damage from pummels will add up very quickly. If you're fast, you can grab them out of their tech/tech rolls on reaction, and you have little reason not to just spam that and rack up damage since it's guaranteed if you're good. If they DI offstage, just dropzone footstool them, it's a devastatingly powerful gimping tool against characters with bad vertical recoveries/Fast Fallers not named MK. Even if that's not enough to outright kill them, they're in such an awful position that that you get a super free edgehog/dair.

 

[DMG]

I don't agree too much with the pummeling, unless you know that they don't mash well/are over 50% or so. You might be better off doing instant Dthrows to give them less time to DI better/mix up DI, especially vs Spacies where minor % differences don't matter as much as getting good opportunities to edgeguard. If you're doing Uthrows however, pummeling is a fine choice since that throw takes awhile and usually gives (decent) players a big enough window to consider their DI choices no matter how fast you initiate it. Also, if you want to wait before throwing as a mindgame to possibly mess up DI, you might as well add a pummel in there at the start I guess.

I'm just adverse to pummeling cause I'm used to Brawl where pummeling in throws was probably the worst choice you could ever make vs competent mashers. Players like Reflex, UTD Zac, and I would make pummels a bad choice: they are better in Melee but be careful folks

 

[Scuba Steve]

I don't agree too much with the pummeling, unless you know that they don't mash well/are over 50% or so. You might be better off doing instant Dthrows to give them less time to DI better/mix up DI, especially vs Spacies where minor % differences don't matter as much as getting good opportunities to edgeguard. If you're doing Uthrows however, pummeling is a fine choice since that throw takes awhile and usually gives (decent) players a big enough window to consider their DI choices no matter how fast you initiate it. Also, if you want to wait before throwing as a mindgame to possibly mess up DI, you might as well add a pummel in there at the start I guess.

I'm just adverse to pummeling cause I'm used to Brawl where pummeling in throws was probably the worst choice you could ever make vs competent mashers. Players like Reflex, UTD Zac, and I would make pummels a bad choice: they are better in Melee but be careful folks

Brawl players have stupid good SDI and mashing

 

[DMG]

You had to. SDI and mashing basically fix a lot of otherwise dumb things about that game!

 

[-Fatality-]

Oh, I didn't mean spamming pummel, I meant just being completely happy to just tech chase them with grabs, rather than going for 1/3 odds reads like so many Falcons do. I've found that against most PM players one pummel is pretty safe past 15ish%, it definitely pays to listen to their controllers when you grab them, since if they don't mash, free damage! I also don't typically factor in DI mixups with D-throw tech chasing since I'm very good at lining myself up with where they land on reaction, which makes where they DI pretty irrelevant unless they have the option of going offstage. I can also confirm from a lot of experience that Reflex button mashing is god tier.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's some footage of me at a weekly last Wednesday.

Scotch vs Anoose
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTTzdi_IIyM

I really think the only reason why I lost is because I can't kill efficiently and I literally killed myself twice in Game Three lmao.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Because of Fatality, there are a lot of (I mean a lot of) aspiring falcon mains in Georgia, but playing with the character is harder than he makes it look. I am only good enough with the character to point out spacing flaws and issues with d.I and poor option choices. I ran friendlies against this person to assist in ironing out a few core flaws, but am not as knowledgeable of falcon as many on this forum. If anyone has time, could they critique the falcon in this video, and/or post a link to a falcon guide that I could relay to the person, it would be greatly appreciated.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9CTmu14QYRo
I also ran lolimar as well, but this should be enough to point out holes in neutral and punish game.

 

[DMG]

Never Side B in Diddy Kong MU, the risk-reward is so heavily skewed against you

Aggressive edgeguards against characters who perform a secondary move to help their recovery (Doc tornado, Diddy flip, etc) can work if you read them during the maneuver and punish

Double-jump fakeouts against shorter character is usually a bad idea, since you tend to have to time your aerials very late and give the opponent a lot of room to beat you with tilts or Smashes

Don't follow up low % stomps with Side B. Either grab them afterwards if they are "stunned" and do not leave the ground, or opt for a tech chase

Followups after throws on characters like Diddy have to be on point. Couple of mistake input Usmashes happened, timing the Uair a tad slower will help and many times you do not need to be frame perfect after throws to keep stuff going as Falcon


Bout all I can think of. Playing against Diddy will not have great insight into what he needs to do better though: it's a tough MU for Falcon and not a very traditional one in the sense that Bananas are 90% different than what Falcon goes through in other MU's because of how they stay on the ground. You might be able to Nair plane through them or what not as they are thrown at you, but that's about the only similarity to most projectiles that they have for Falcon

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Never Side B in Diddy Kong MU, the risk-reward is so heavily skewed against you

Aggressive edgeguards against characters who perform a secondary move to help their recovery (Doc tornado, Diddy flip, etc) can work if you read them during the maneuver and punish

Double-jump fakeouts against shorter character is usually a bad idea, since you tend to have to time your aerials very late and give the opponent a lot of room to beat you with tilts or Smashes

Don't follow up low % stomps with Side B. Either grab them afterwards if they are "stunned" and do not leave the ground, or opt for a tech chase

Followups after throws on characters like Diddy have to be on point. Couple of mistake input Usmashes happened, timing the Uair a tad slower will help and many times you do not need to be frame perfect after throws to keep stuff going as Falcon


Bout all I can think of. Playing against Diddy will not have great insight into what he needs to do better though: it's a tough MU for Falcon and not a very traditional one in the sense that Bananas are 90% different than what Falcon goes through in other MU's because of how they stay on the ground. You might be able to Nair plane through them or what not as they are thrown at you, but that's about the only similarity to most projectiles that they have for Falcon

Thank you, even the group I am with is trying to learn falcon at this point, so I need to get better at teaching. I probably should use sheik or Roy more for the sake of teaching, or play diddy with no bananas since it will be better practice vs the regular cast in the future. Doesn't help people much to have an item game in most matchups, and olimar is an even weirder matchup.

 

[-Fatality-]

Thank you, even the group I am with is trying to learn falcon at this point, so I need to get better at teaching.

Wait, you mean like Eagle Smashers are actually picking up Falcon themselves, or are they just trying to specifically learn that matchup a lot?