Show me your moves - Captain Falcon video thread

[Scuba Steve]

I won a local over the number 1 player in my scene last Thursday. I thought I played hella sloppy in a lot of my sets throughout the tournament, but I guess it still got me the dubya. It figures that one of the few times that I won something and it was recorded that I would be using a stupid tag lol

Vs. Grog (GnW) WR1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hlXhrBGA50

Vs. Betch (Peach) Winners Semis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKg16c7eo58

Vs. Grime (Marth) LR6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4T0L-TfYIU

Vs. Fearless (Lucario) Losers Semis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn0KXIQwZx0

Vs. Betch (Peach) Losers Finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr5JV69ba2U

Vs. Eclipse Kirby (MK, Roy) Grand Finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riZto9ideEk

 

[DMG]

I will have at least 1 set from uh Fight Me IRL, maybe 2 if my Lunchables set got recorded somehow

 

[Steel Banana]

DMG... How did you beat Lunchables!? Or in other words, what did I do wrong here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLZX448FdqA

Also, how does Falcon fight against Sonic? I spent an hour fighting a good Sonic the other day and couldn't consistently win. The Sonic was playing extremely campy, and I couldn't really get many hits in aside from hard reads.

 

[DMG]

FD was a bad CP. Lunchables doesn't like the stage, but it's terrible for the MU. You can't escape from Roy once he gets a hold of you basically. Platforms give you more mitigation against random Dtilt popups etc. PS2 is basically an improved FD if you want the space, I would have just gone back despite losing there Game 1 if you wanted something similar. Stage picks vs Roy are pretty scary though, it's hard to find a combination that gives you more of a benefit since both chars kill power is thru the roof and Roy can play comfortably on nearly any smaller stage. Battlefield might technically be the best but it also forces your platform game to be on point more than Smashville, GHZ, and PS2.


Gameplay wise, you have to punish every mistake with a non CC-able choice. You literally almost don't have any other viable choice: Uair under platforms gets CC'd often and they just slide off or eat the hit. Nair gets CC'd and either punished or a 50/50 mixup where they just escaped a bad situation. So on and so forth.


Dair, Knee, Grab. You see him whiff a Smash or do something unsafe? Pick the best out of those 3. Jabbing Roy usually sucks, bad stuff will happen. The only time it ever works out is if you land Jab 1 --> Grab, but they can CC + Dtilt before your grab lands. Roy players commonly hold down for running Dtilt, and because they have sick CC/ASDI down into punish choices if the other character doesn't have strong anti cc or great spacing choices. There's little risk to holding down after whiffing a move as Roy, since if the person chooses a non CC choice they can generally modify their DI or stick position to match the situation. Stop holding down after getting grabbed and choose a DI direction, change from down to left/right as Falcon flies in with stomp, etc.

 

[SupremoRemo]

Me vs Emukiller in pools at Shots Fired.
Finished 9th at my first national tournament out of 200+ entrants so that was exciting.
Please check out this video and let me know what you think! Anything will help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX5PldHT5nk

 

[DMG]

Should have a talk with them about their whole "Falcon being a Mewtwo counter" thing lol.

Edit: You did pretty good. Sometimes you're weak on punishing DI inside on Dthrow: I would get in the habit of sniffing out that bad DI and getting a free regrab or the slight drift Knee. Technically you can even sometimes do a running full hop Uair and use that momentum for a follow up Knee or punish. Use their throw angle to quickly confirm what DI they held. Not getting a punish on DI away/down away is understandable, it's legit impossible depending on char and % even with frame perfect actions, but DI inside gives you a lot of free stuff. Can't give it away


That one failed edgeguard Game 3 was definitely the turning point. Was a winnable game before that point imo, momentum shifts and it had to of been frustrating. Yoshi's has some neat edgeguard stuff you can do to Marth but it requires some faith and usually a decent bit of practice beforehand to get it down. You use the wall for wall jump Uair/Knee and then recover. When Marth doesn't outright die, it's fairly hard for him to get back once you become proficient with those things in tandem with traditional edgeguards.

 

[TheKmanOfSmash]

Just had a money match with Iori (best player in TN) at my most recent tourney. I did a lot better than the last time I played him in a set. This was the first time I've ever taken games off of him in anything (friendlies/tournament) and I almost won the set. Would anyone mind giving me some advice?


Kman vs Iori: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9Pyj0VRoBY

 

[DMG]

Be careful about going for regrabs in the tech chase scenario, insofar as teching in place is concerned. It's one of the easiest things to mess up in tech chases. If you read tech in place, and they pick any option besides teching in place, grab kind of bones you. If you do stomp, knee, or nair to cover tech in place, you can sometimes also cover tech rolls if you are quick enough (or have enough frame advantage on the throw regardless of DI). Like miss a knee, and then react to their tech roll. In the Falcon ditto, this is pretty easy to accomplish: other chars with better rolls might throw you for a loop though.

Running RAR wavedash to snap the edge is underrated edgeguard choice for Falcon. It would have served you well for some of the edgeguarding, since he went lower more often than not.

You did more Uthrow and got more off of it than last set I remember seeing posted from you. It's muy bueno in the Falcon ditto, glad to see you using it more

 

[SuperCoffeeBros]

Does anyone have an updated 3.5 Falcon v Dorf video?

 

[Conti]

I've always had a mess around falcon but lately I just seem to have more fun playing him, Any tips to help me improve and auto-pilot stuff that i need to mixup, I keep doin stupid stuff and just need more insight Thanks much :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmAgiQ3s-p0&index=1&list=PLiy1lEN0fdBwtgvj6J6Pa_wgYdPNYFcU5

 

[DMG]

L cancel low Dairs more, work on more proficient and more patient DD (you had 2-3 DD into approach patterns that didn't have much deviation, which makes counterplay for the opponent way easier), and look to Uthrow more on chars like Pika. It's mad good: he can't escape your follow ups past like 20% or so even with DI behind. Maybe 30% not entirely sure what frame advantage you have on DI behind under that point. He might trade your Uair and Bair with Nair


Working on a smoother DD game means 3 things:

1. You work on different DD timings. Biggest problem is that people tend to have 1-2 timings engrained into their minds and they fall back on them. DDing is way less effective if the opponent *knows* what you are going to do and when you will try to do it.


2. To compliment DD timings, this means getting greater control and understanding of his exact dash distance, control of your momentum when you SH from a DD/Dash, knowing how to foxtrot so that you can extend your DD in 1 direction without needing to waste time, etc.


3. To maximize the usefulness of DD in general, you have to also mix up your approaching options. You generally did full (or mostly full) momentum running SH Nair out of your DD. To make it worse, I could spot the 2 usual distances and timings you tried to pull that approach off, which means you will travel across the stage in a predictable pattern that an opponent can abuse. To be fair, I saw you use more Knee or other aerials instead of Nair for the approach, but you kepts fairly similar DD and approach timings.

This is something you strongly need to avoid, and one good way of doing this is to use a whole plethora of choices from your DD. SH Nair with little or no momentum, use DD patiently to bait a response and dash in with a JC grab, use SH instant Uair when close, do an immediate JC grab without waiting for their response, etc.


Specific example of what I'm talking about: go back and watch the matches closely. I'd say 80% of the time, you would quickly dash away from the opponent, dash back maybe halfway or slightly less into your dash length, and do full running SH Nairs (and later Knee). As you mentioned, stuff like this tends to be really auto pilot and dangerous to repeatedly do because it shackles your neutral game potential as Falcon. Falcon's individual tools are not necessarily omg wtf, but his ability to be really god dang fast and have threatening mixups on approaches, with a ridiculous punish game, means you should leverage your advantages as much as possible. Doing similar approaches, similar DD's, similar recovery choices or anything else repetitive is a big no-no. You die as Captain Falcon if they can guess what exact option you will pick, and know the timing.

 

[Conti]

Thank you very much, extremely insightful, yeah i'm really bad auto-pilot with him honestly, and damn ur right i do have a Lcancle miss habit with low Dairs, never even noticed til i look back, and yeah i kinda never took the time to really look at him. I'll try to work on them dash dance distances and fox trotting [i forgot this was an option lol woops] and explore these new options u mentioned [i never thought of up close SH instant uair but thinking about it, people do it all the time and im just bad haha xD].
Another question is how do u properly execute low momentum sh's/no momentum sh's, i struggle to understand the timing of when to direct and jump.
Another good question is stomping, When are the best times/situations to stomp and the worst times to stomp, i don't really have a feel for it and i kinda just completely guess and bs my Dairs and i feel like i get punished more for them then rewarded.

 

[Steel Banana]

Youngblood v Dizzy (Marth)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukBZflmpbsw

Youngblood v Dizzy (Marth) part 2 [1 week later]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHDcps_LQlk

Youngblood v SparkingZero (Ike)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev0pmDkV3sY

Lots of swords, lots of SDs... Honestly, I felt like I was playing alright in these sets, but just dropped SO many combos. Also, hadn't played an Ike since last time Spark was in town (in the summer) so it felt weird facing someone with such a huge sword.

 

[DMG]

You break from DD too early against Marth when going for Nairs. Ideally you should try to identify how they treat DD game, and modify your own to suit it. Most players, even strong players, have patterns or preferences on how they DD. The main thing is going for the more aggressive mixups even while they dash towards you.


One basic pattern is to dash fairly close to someone and dash back. As in, you mentally commit to doing those things in tandem as a bait or patience maneuver, you're legitimately not focused on a mixup like dash grab or dash aerial. Most players do this as a fairly basic bait, but what separates someone a few levels is how they expand and vary a basic pattern like that. Dash dancing for many good characters carries fairly large trees of possibilities, both in attacks and distance. The part most people don't realize, is that they overcommit on the distance/movement part and forget to execute options from that vast tree. You mindlessly weave back and forth, not sure where you need to be on spacing or how you can influence their own spacing.


At the same time, you can take advantage of that weakness from the opponent by positioning yourself more aggressively in your DD. A person can't throw out a tilt/walling attack, grab, shield, and dash back at the same time. Based on those options, you can probably beat each one individually if you predict it. To beat their own dash back, that entails dashing towards someone, at a range where grabs and attacks will likely stuff you, to keep up or overpower their dash back. It sounds like one of the hardest reads, but think about it: a lot of people in general dash back to bait attacks, and a lot of people also use the "dash close + dash immediately away" as a generic choice in neutral. If you whiff a generally safe option, like Marth Dtilt, many times they dash back because that option is also traditionally very safe. When it's overused in neutral however, players can pick up on it and position themselves closer than usual to apply pressure. This forces new DD timings, patterns, and attacks breaking DD from the opponent, which is at least a step up from not forcing them to do so.


Vs Ike: Dthrow is probably better at lower % because of how heavy Ike is. It's easier to get a tech chase than to be near frame perfect off a 0% uthrow. Past maybe 30% it's legit and much easier: I tend to go for Dthrow more anyways because with good DI on those lower % uthrows, people kinda heavy like Ike tend to eat just 1 follow up and not have much of a disadvantage. Dthrow can force a tech chase, or a regrab, or a much bigger positional advantage. I would explore that more

 

[Scuba Steve]

I like when DMG says things

 

[White Wolf]

I'll give a few pointers I see, and some habits I see off of the top of my head:
You are playing Marth with a lot of impatience. Playing a Marth can be one of the best experiences in the world, if you can figure out how to break down his literal and metaphorical wall. On the flip side, if your dash-dances are stale and you don't think about how you want to systematically pick apart the holes in any swordsman, they will consequently body you in return.
When you get conversions, you want to hit them waaay too hard. Every falcon player wants to hit the knee, but surprisingly few falcons are willing to wait for it. You never want to be off-stage, so don't put yourself out there on a crazy read that has 0.001 percent chance of happening.
Nonetheless, if you play a little more patient (something I could do more of myself) I could see you being a very potent and hype Falcon. You've got the first step right by putting yourself out here to critique, just continue to grow and think about what you need to improve. Keep it up man.

 

[DMG]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2MSlJgITQE me vs sosa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U26xKnArK4o me vs darkgun

 

[TheKmanOfSmash]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2MSlJgITQE me vs sosa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U26xKnArK4o me vs axe

I actually know a good bit about the Falcon/Wario MU since I play Mr. Pickle a lot in tournament. Here, I think you played it well, especially in the last game, but I just wanted to say a few things:

I almost always use up-throw vs Wario because it usually leads into a free up-air string. With down throw, it'll only combo if they don't DI correctly. If they DI appropriately (down and away), then Falcon can't get a true follow-up on him and would have to depend on the tech-chase. And if you down throw them off stage and they DI correctly, then they're usually too far away for a Knee, unless you're willing to risk going for a soft Knee gimp. With up-throw, you don't have to deal with any of that. I would only down throw if I know my opponent does not know how to DI Falcon's throws.

Also, with Wario's shoulder bash, when Warios do down throw --> shoulder bash or (Insert knockdown move here) ---> forward Smash, shoulder bash covers tech in place and tech away. It completely misses tech towards them, however, because you're invincible for long enough. If you think that Wario is going to go for a shoulder bash, then tech towards them is usually the correct option, unless you are really far way from them. Then tech away would be the appropriate option. You started teching towards them near the end of the last game, which was good. Tech in place never avoids shoulder bash unless they mistime it and you get your shield up in time. But I wouldn't rely on that.

And the general idea of the MU is that you want to rack up damage on Wario through combos, strong hits, etc., navigate around his aerial spacing game, without him grabbing you and gimping you offstage. Wario has a pretty strong combo game on Falcon himself, but where he excels the most in the MU is gimping. Mr. Pickle and I usually have pretty close sets, but he almost always comes out on top because he finds a way to trick me to going towards the ledge and gimping me. And Wario's back throw and chargeable forward throw are definitely designed for that purpose. Recovery mix-ups are a must when revering against Wario.

Also, Wario has a really good crouch cancel game vs Falcon. CC down tilt can be brutal. However, I believe you can CC grab it (if you're close enough), stomp over the down tilt (which I saw you do a few times, which is good) or CC roll away. I know his jabs confirm into a grab. Common grab set up for Wario are down-tilt ---> grab, down-tilt ---> jab --> grab, or jab --> grab. CC options help avoid these set ups which, if not avoided, can potentially lead to a stock if the Wario is on point.




Also, I think the second set you posted is not Axe, but a Lucario player named Darkgun. But I can go ahead and critique what I thought about this set:

Both characters have the potential to combo each other pretty hard, but I think Falcon wins this MU handily and I think the way Falcon should play it is rather easy:

Lucario's approaches suck against characters with good dash dances. Lucario's best approach options are either dash attack or double team ---> (insert move here). Dash canceled down tilt can be good, but other than that, Lucario's approach options are extremely linear and are all beatable by abusing dash dancing and reacting to wiffed dash attacks and double team approaches. Every time you got hit in neutral vs him, it was due to him landing a dash attack on you or some move out of double team, all of which can be avoided by Falcon's long dash dance. This is why I think Falcon destroys Lucario on FD. With all that space and no platforms for Lucario to utilize, Falcon can have a field day on Lucario.

As for the combo game, I think I always up-throw Lucario at low percents because that usually leads to nair ---> up-air ---> whatever. I think down throw ---> Knee will work at higher percents, but I don't remember. I don't have a set-up at my place to test this on since I mainly play at Smashfests and tournaments now-a-days.




To end, I think I'll post some of my sets vs Mr. Pickle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kode_Mqbwgo Me vs Mr. Pickle, Winners Semis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pruVp4U_Vbw Me vs Mr. Pickle, Losers Semis


I love Pickle, I really do, but I'm just about tired of always getting gimped by him lol. I think the next time I play him, I'm just going to play Marth, which is a pretty bad MU for Wario.

 

[DMG]

I did Dthrow too much vs Darkgun, but most of it was correct vs Sosa. Uthrow is good against Wario, but I prefer not doing it at lower % because followups can be very frame tight and SDI upwards can ruin some strings. Sethlon has done SDI up out of my Nair and Uair so much that I go for Dthrow more at earlier % because it can be easier to get stronger punishes on the tech chase. I don't mind if people can DI offstage after Dthrow (fully offstage, not situations where they can grab the edge near instantly), because it gives me the opportunity to examine how they respond when I rush towards them: if done correctly, this gives me the possibility later on in the match for a hard read and there's little risk if I use a retreating DJ aerial after runnning off, to cover some space near the edge. The only time I am wary about that is if the opponent's character has a very good ledge dash, since I may not be able to apply much pressure once they find the edge.


I know most of the stuff bout teching into Wario to avoid shoulder bash, it's just still really a bad spot for Falcon to have to tech ever against that char. Tech roll in gives the free grab, waft, etc. I waited for him to commit a couple times to that option before switching to teching inside, because it would be an awful feeling to try and play the tech chase 1 layer ahead, just to have it crumble because he decided to not Side B so much or went for hard waft reads on techs.


I played enough Wario in PM, and have seen enough of SB + others to know the general stuff vs Wario: DI bite mixup away from him correctly, DI away in general is good to escape silly combos, CC wrecks his aerials that aren't sweetspots, etc. If I didn't have some level of that, I probably would have lost the entire set

 

[TheKmanOfSmash]

I did Dthrow too much vs Darkgun, but most of it was correct vs Sosa. Uthrow is good against Wario, but I prefer not doing it at lower % because followups can be very frame tight and SDI upwards can ruin some strings. Sethlon has done SDI up out of my Nair and Uair so much that I go for Dthrow more at earlier % because it can be easier to get stronger punishes on the tech chase. I don't mind if people can DI offstage after Dthrow (fully offstage, not situations where they can grab the edge near instantly), because it gives me the opportunity to examine how they respond when I rush towards them: if done correctly, this gives me the possibility later on in the match for a hard read and there's little risk if I use a retreating DJ aerial after runnning off, to cover some space near the edge. The only time I am wary about that is if the opponent's character has a very good ledge dash, since I may not be able to apply much pressure once they find the edge.


I know most of the stuff bout teching into Wario to avoid shoulder bash, it's just still really a bad spot for Falcon to have to tech ever against that char. Tech roll in gives the free grab, waft, etc. I waited for him to commit a couple times to that option before switching to teching inside, because it would be an awful feeling to try and play the tech chase 1 layer ahead, just to have it crumble because he decided to not Side B so much or went for hard waft reads on techs.


I played enough Wario in PM, and have seen enough of SB + others to know the general stuff vs Wario: DI bite mixup away from him correctly, DI away in general is good to escape silly combos, CC wrecks his aerials that aren't sweetspots, etc. If I didn't have some level of that, I probably would have lost the entire set

Alright, seems solid. Personally, I'd rather go for the guaranteed than rely on the tech chase at low percents vs Wario. I used to use down throw a low vs Wario and I would get a lot out of tech chases when I converted off of them properly. But it just wasn't as reliable as I wanted it to be until I started using up-throw ---> up-air (kind of like how you told me to use more up-throw re-grabs in Falcon dittos). But maybe that's just me. Also, I never use nair after up-throw because, like you said, it's pretty easy to SDI up. Up-air should be free, though, and I don't see how SDI should affect this unless they're SDI'ing massive distances away from Falcon. But go for whatever gives you the most success, that's what is the most important.

And yeah, it seems like you know all the other Wario tricksies pretty well, so good stuff to that. Actually from your forum picture, I should have assumed that you've played Wario himself for some time, lol. I didn't even notice.

 

[DMG]

yes

He was my main in Brawl. I tried him out for some of the patches just to see what he was like, was usually pleased with him although it takes a lot of time to get used to some changes. Playing as characters to get that familiarity when you have to vs them in bracket is really helpful, definitely helped me out vs Sosa


And yeah Uair is solid after Uthrow, but at lower % what usually happens is some characters can SDI + DI the Uair to escape any further followups. At very low %, generally you either have a full hop Uair with no running momentum, or you have a SH Uair (either running sh momentum, or standing in place with some drift during the jump). If you cannot get a running start for the Uair, SDI + DI away / down away tends to place them too far for anything else. No double Uairs, no falling Uairs or Nairs, nothing. If you get the running start or use a SH to get the Uair, SDI + DI upwards tends to let people double jump out of anything else. With platforms in the picture as well, you have to remember which DI paths let them tech on the platform before any move comes out, whether you should tech chase on the platform afterwards or get a strong hit, etc.


Mentally there's a lot that goes into Uthrow at low % because you have to be near perfect on a couple different areas for optimal punishes when it comes to weird chars like Wario, while at the same time his tech rolls aren't super amazing and he is forced to DI away nearly every time to avoid regrabs or other punishes if you Dthrow. So in a way, it's choosing to go for the option that consistently forces his options to be limited, that also has room for huge potential if you can read the tech chase well, vs the choice that may be more guaranteed for an initial follow up but requires more consideration for their DI, their %, available platforms, etc. For me, Dthrow feels like the better option for those circumstances. Uthrow past maybe 50% is likely always better, because Knee starts to become a punish out of the throw and because it's less likely for platforms to save him as his % starts to launch him higher and higher.


For the Falcon ditto, part of the reason I recommended Uthrow at lower % is because Dthrow doesn't give very much frame advantage against other Captain Falcon's. He touches the ground very early after the throw is used. So fast that trying to CG bad DI Inside is very hard or possibly not doable under 15% etc. While Wario is heavy, he doesn't fall as fast, so your frame advatange is bigger and that allows you to punish non-stellar DI easier along with giving more time to respond to his tech roll or option. Wario and Yoshi are almost in the same boat IIRC, and I use Dthrow on Hamyojo's Yosho at lower % because he has to DI away + you get acceptable advantage on tech chases even at low %. Having done that idk how many times, going for the tech chase is a comfortable thing. It did not work out vs Darkgun, Uthrow was clearly the better option for that character because he's lighter and his tech rolls are more work to punish so that's 100% undoubtedly valid advice. Young Blood said the same thing during the set when he came up to me after game 2: Don't do Dthrow so much, just Uthrow into free move!


Turns out I didn't listen much til it was already time for Uthrow --> Knee to be a thing

 

[TheKmanOfSmash]

He was my main in Brawl. I tried him out for some of the patches just to see what he was like, was usually pleased with him although it takes a lot of time to get used to some changes. Playing as characters to get that familiarity when you have to vs them in bracket is really helpful, definitely helped me out vs Sosa


And yeah Uair is solid after Uthrow, but at lower % what usually happens is some characters can SDI + DI the Uair to escape any further followups. At very low %, generally you either have a full hop Uair with no running momentum, or you have a SH Uair (either running sh momentum, or standing in place with some drift during the jump). If you cannot get a running start for the Uair, SDI + DI away / down away tends to place them too far for anything else. No double Uairs, no falling Uairs or Nairs, nothing. If you get the running start or use a SH to get the Uair, SDI + DI upwards tends to let people double jump out of anything else. With platforms in the picture as well, you have to remember which DI paths let them tech on the platform before any move comes out, whether you should tech chase on the platform afterwards or get a strong hit, etc.


Mentally there's a lot that goes into Uthrow at low % because you have to be near perfect on a couple different areas for optimal punishes when it comes to weird chars like Wario, while at the same time his tech rolls aren't super amazing and he is forced to DI away nearly every time to avoid regrabs or other punishes if you Dthrow. So in a way, it's choosing to go for the option that consistently forces his options to be limited, that also has room for huge potential if you can read the tech chase well, vs the choice that may be more guaranteed for an initial follow up but requires more consideration for their DI, their %, available platforms, etc. For me, Dthrow feels like the better option for those circumstances. Uthrow past maybe 50% is likely always better, because Knee starts to become a punish out of the throw and because it's less likely for platforms to save him as his % starts to launch him higher and higher.


For the Falcon ditto, part of the reason I recommended Uthrow at lower % is because Dthrow doesn't give very much frame advantage against other Captain Falcon's. He touches the ground very early after the throw is used. So fast that trying to CG bad DI Inside is very hard or possibly not doable under 15% etc. While Wario is heavy, he doesn't fall as fast, so your frame advatange is bigger and that allows you to punish non-stellar DI easier along with giving more time to respond to his tech roll or option. Wario and Yoshi are almost in the same boat IIRC, and I use Dthrow on Hamyojo's Yosho at lower % because he has to DI away + you get acceptable advantage on tech chases even at low %. Having done that idk how many times, going for the tech chase is a comfortable thing. It did not work out vs Darkgun, Uthrow was clearly the better option for that character because he's lighter and his tech rolls are more work to punish so that's 100% undoubtedly valid advice. Young Blood said the same thing during the set when he came up to me after game 2: Don't do Dthrow so much, just Uthrow into free move!


Turns out I didn't listen much til it was already time for Uthrow --> Knee to be a thing

Yeah, I'm sure if I played Wario, it'd definitely help me out in the MU vs him. It's definitely a perspective that's very valuable.

Also, I don't usually have trouble coverting up-airs from up-throws. It could very well be that all the Warios I play don't utilize good SDI and that I'm getting punishes that I'm not supposed to be getting. Or that I'm too godly with Up-airs, idk. However, what I do know is that even if they have the ability to double jump out of the up-air string, I would personally still choose this option over down throw because any character in the air (no access to smash attacks, tilts, shield, grab, spotdodge, tech options, etc. in the air) that is also double jump-less is usually a significant positional disadvantage against characters with good juggling anti-air options, like Falcon's up air. And I believe Falcon wants to juggle opponents for days. Though you can get a lot from a tech chase that that you necessarily can't get from up-air, if you so happen to miss the conversion, now Wario has access to all his grounded options AND aerial options (if he wanted to do a quick aerial straight from the tech).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I see up-throw as the better option because a cost-benefit analysis seems to be in favor of up-throw, at least from my personal experiences and what I know about the game. Sure, you can get more reward from down throw, but I think it comes at a higher risk because if you so happen to fail, the tables can easily be turned on you. With up-throw, in the event that you fail, the worst that can happen is either you get hit by a nair or they jump away.

Also, when it comes to platforms, I'm very used to covering techs on platforms. In fact, I really enjoy covering those options, even if down throw turns out to be objectively better. Platform tech chases make the game really fun for me. Perhaps at the end of the day, it all boils down to preference.

Also, yeah up throw does seem to give you more time from a frame advantage point of view and I definitely use it more vs fast fallers. But for some reason I seem to gravitate to down throw from time to time. I don't know why. Perhaps it's because my brain is in "GO!" mode and I actually want an option that gives me less time to react so that I can think/react faster. Or maybe it's something to do with the trajectory of the down throw vs the up-throw. Or maybe it's force of habit. idk at this point, lol.

 

[DMG]

Dthrow looks cooler. Basically boils down to that

 

[TheKmanOfSmash]

I agree. It definitely does!

 

[Steel Banana]

Got 5th for the 2nd week in a row at Infinity and Beyond :D
My placing is good, but I feel like my tech skill and patience have been super sloppy.

vs. Disafter (Falcon)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOQGPVNt8GE

vs Sethlon (Roy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr5lbDSnS4o

vs Apathy (Toon Link)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga07QdYhLrQ

vs Captain Birdman (Dedede)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PofKlas-qZI

Critique and suggestions on all videos are appreciated!

Against DDD, I really am at a loss at how to consistently kill him. As far as I can tell, he can't be gimped, so my only option for killing is the knee, which is why I was hungry for them in all the games. I can tell from the video that the platforms broke up my combos pretty hard, but they also allowed me to escape, so I don't think I would want less of them. I feel like when I know he's going to tech on a platform before the knee connects, I should waveland grab. But then I'm not sure which throw to do at higher percents. Dthrow is super DI dependent and it seems like he was able to jump out of Uthrow most of the time. I'm sure there's some mindgame in there somewhere, but I can't pinpoint it. Other than that, I could tell that I went for some dumb punishes (especially in game 2) but I feel like that's matchup inexperience more than anything, since he's the first DDD I've played in almost a year, lol.

 

[DMG]

DP was not a great choice on Birdman. I think PS2 accomplishes the same thing, but doesn't give you those annoying upper platforms. They do not benefit Falcon very much in the MU: if you recover high or get tossed up to it, D3 has massive range from multiple angles to still hit you. All they tend to do is make Uthrow --> Knee less reliable, and give him some recovery mixups of his own. The walls benefit your recovery a bit, but you should be fairly dead offstage against D3 if he doesn't over commit so I wouldn't place much value for how much they might help you in a match.


D3 will get most kills on Falcon from tossing him offstage and edgeguarding, so huge horizontal blastzones are probably not a positive for Falcon. A large or Medium stage with fairly close blastzones would probably be preferred: I think the space advantage of a large stage vs D3 is overrated as Falcon because we don't necessarily have a projectile or tool that forces him to approach at a huge disadvantage. Our own approaches have to be safe and thought out, and a really long stage only seems to benefit us if we can force their approach or impatience. A large stage would likely be preferred to FoD and probably GHZ/WW, but might be roughly the same as BF anyways.


The fact that he accepted striking to PS2 for Game 1, to me shows that either he or the character is comfortable enough with that stage to not warrant a PS2 clone as your CP IMO.


D3 MU is weird. I haven't gotten to do it much vs Birdman, he's gotten better since Fight Me IRL (which was the most recent time we had to play) and he sorta wasted a Game going Falco at the start.

 

[Steel Banana]

How to fight MetaKnight? His neutral seems really hard to maneuver around and once he gets a hit, it could easily mean death for Douglas.

Me vs. StrongBad (MK)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkeqPXz72R4

I also lost to Falco, but I understand that matchup more than the MK one, even though it feels about as hard, lol.

Me vs. Disafter (Falcon / Falco)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN1XaEj1WhY

Any (general or Youngblood-specific) tips on neutral against these two characters? Thanks

 

[DMG]

I don't know if FD was a good CP vs MK. If you pick a longer stage vs MK, both characters shift to a fairly heavy tech chase gameplan. I think you did too much Uthrow, because while it gives you guaranteed follow ups, the main benefit of FD or PS2 is for you to sniff out tech chase and punish more aggressively with stomp or regrabs. He has some of the worst tech rolls in the game, and he still gets regrabbed or punished for holding DI inside when you Dthrow, so I would use that one more if your stage choice dictates it. Dthrow on GHZ does not make as much sense because there's less room to press for regrabs and Dair punishes, so going to FD further dictates that you will want to do so. Uthrow --> Knee or Uair is stronger on smaller stages, Dthrow --> Stomp or regrab is much stronger on larger stages.


Nair is a bad move in the MK MU, until you've already landed an initial hit or grab. You tend to trade or lose to MK's moves with SH Nair. You should try to DD and bait him into a response, and very quickly run in. If you need to be direct with MK, Knee and Stomp are better choices. They are slower than Nair technically, but Nair does not cover below Falcon that much and such a short character takes awhile to properly align Nair height anyways, so picking the moves with better shield stun or conversion potential seems the way to go.


Thing for both sets: don't do ledge jump/stand up over 100%. You kept winding up in a bad spot due to those, and believe me I've been there. You try to drop off the edge and either hax dash, ledge dash, or drop down regrab the edge, and instead you someone jump or stand up from the edge. It's very costly if they manage to get lucky or have decent positional trapping skills near the edge. Chars like MK and Falco it's mandatory that you don't have edge slipups like that, just get more consistent with either not panicking or slowing down your ledge inputs a bit to guarantee you get what is intended.

 

[SPAZ494]

So I have just recently picked up Captain Falcon as my new main in Melee and my secondary in PM. Will practicing PM falcon help me melee Falcon and vice versa? Or are there suttee differences that will mess me up. I play both games rather frequently.

 

[DMG]

You will probably mess up Melee Falcon. PM Falcon is easier to maneuver, and generally a bit easier to use optimally. Gentleman is easier, upb sweetspot is easier, Side B can be used to recover, etc



Melee Falcon helps PM Falcon, but PM Falcon tends to mess you up for Melee Falcon

 

[Scuba Steve]

moar vids

Vs. Dong (Luigi, Falco) Winner's Semis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8dnZIpQ8yU

Vs. Betch (Peach) Winner's Finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8sucZ9tUV0

Vs. EclipseKirby (Roy) Grand Finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxNIkc6on78


Tell me how to stop SD'ing

 

[DMG]

"Just don't do it"

-DMG 2016

 

[Scuba Steve]

moar from another weekly


Vs. Betch (Peach) Winners Finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aCGyu9HtBM

Vs. Da (GnW) Grand Finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S22QxIpt0vE


Tell me how to suck less

 

[DMG]

Did alright vs G^W, dropped a lot of pressure though. G^W has to sweetspot the side of the ledge, not just under the edge IIRC, to avoid onstage Dair. You had a couple Dair opportunities when he went for some sweetspot attempts that were too close to the stage: even if they meteor it keeps them in a bad spot and arguable makes it even worse if their meteor timing gives a non sweetspot on Upb so that they eat punish for recovering above the edge.


When they burn Upb early, you can harass him with Uair in many instances, because his Dair is not reliable enough to throw out as a safety net. You can punish the cooldown, or re-maneuver to the side of G&W and win the clash. If you force him to use Bair or Fair to land, unless you are grossly mis-spaced far away, this leads to either a free punish when you dash back in, or a tight squeeze where you get Knee out on their shield/Upb and deprive him of space. Either scenario is good. You seemed unsure or a bit slow on a couple of his aerial landings when he had to cover his body, or was mostly back to the stage and needed some room.


He had a couple bad spots, but you have to check and verify them by going after it, or else that potential edge passes away as if no gap or weakness was actually there earlier. He was prone/weak to Uair on some recovery and landing situations? You can give them up or settle for a lesser advantage, but if it happens repeatedly then it makes their job easier once they reach their relatively "improved" scenario again. You have to take moments like that, see if it's more than a player vs player thing, and if it is, grind it out to its maximum usefulness.


That's the beauty of it: when you can take things that might seem like hard reads, or just player reads on each other, and make it appear to be closer to a pure character / MU facet (this happens, response is always this and it should work), you become quite hard to beat. There's no room for them to outplay you at that point, since these things described are exactly what your character can accomplish if you execute. Etc


It's 4:30, and maintenance ate up my first post that was articulated much better, but ya there you go

 

[Scuba Steve]

Me > Sethlon? Managed to bring down the reign of Kim DONG Un and succeed where Sethlon had failed. Just kidding, I still ****ing suck at this game, but here are some moar vidyas

Vs. Tikobroje (Wario) WSF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2oKrU6VnY4

Vs. Eclipse Kirby (Roy, MK) WF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STRHvA_rMIE

Vs. DONG (Luigi) GF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PaUT8R57_o

 

[Steel Banana]

Winner's Finals: Did the commentators really just say MK has a hard time against Falcon!? -_____- Scuby plz. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure MK is one of Falcon's worst matchups. I think its on par with Sheik and Falco. Against EK's MK, I really like when you tried to recover as high as possible, because I know raptor boost is awful as a recovery move against MK. There were a few scenarios against both Roy and MK where a combo move would send them too high for the knee/nair you did, but an uair would have connected. Game 3 was actually pretty hype, lol. The presence of mind to walljump at 9:14, that conversion off the platform tech at 10:09, and that WD fsmash to win the set. Really nice stuff.

Grand Finals: Honestly, that was pretty impressive matchup knowledge. You baited his combo breakers and punished them hard, you were always ready for the Luigi Tornado in neutral (which is how I usually get ****ed up against Luigi), and you got some really solid combos on the hardest character to combo in the game.

What really killed you were your flubbed edgeguards and bad DI on his kill moves (mostly dair). When Luigi is recovering, you can totally block his sideB with soft knee, which is what you tried to do. If you miss, though, you're pretty much dead. I don't think there's a surefire way to edgeguard Luigi unless he's below the stage and has to use rising tornado to gain height, and even that is pretty risky. What I usually do if I think they're going to go high with Green Missile is to grab ledge and refresh invincibility until I can either uair or bair them back offstage (depending on the height they go). This method is not great if they get the misfire, though.

Honestly, Luigi is one of my least favorite characters to fight against even though I know the matchup is probably even. The downB burst movement and random kills from misfires are just so dumb... lol

When I played Dong at Aftershock in pools, he said I reminded him a lot of you. After watching these games, its pretty interesting how similar our playstyles are. I can almost predict what you're going to do next, lol.

 

[DMG]

MK used to be one of the hardest, IDK how I feel about it atm. It's true that MK gets uber punished by Falcon because of terrible weight/float and tech rolls, but it's hard to dominate neutral vs short fast chars

 

[lordhelmet]

KZOO | Lordy (Captain Falcon) vs. SoulPech (Jigglypuff) - Winner's Semis - SPAU4

 

[lancepantss]

C'mon 'N Ride the Falcon Hype Train

 

[Steel Banana]

So I got 5th at an arcadian recently and had some pretty good games on stream.

vs. Foptop (Mario): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc-66IF1Urw
vs RUIN (Lucas): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPiN4-grcL8
vs Apathy (Toon Link): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QigCG4jhb1g

The first 2 are just videos of me winning, but I still feel like I could improve those victories even more, especially now that uthrow->knee isn't gonna be my guaranteed stock-destroyer like game 2 against RUIN.

The toon link matchup though... I don't get it. He seems hard to combo (aside from my messed up tech-skill) and maneuvering around his zoning tools is really hard for me. I read on reddit (from DMG) that Falcon beats Tink pretty hard, so I guess I just don't understand the matchup yet. Any tips (both for the matchup and my playstyle in general)?