Show Me Ya Gimps! Pit General Disc.

[BlinkIV]

Well, glide is a very useful tool for pit to use. You can perform any aerial from it, a glide attack, and get a boosted jump from after the glide. Good recovery option as well. Glide attack is also ideal for starting combos sometime, extending combos, and a good way to catch someone if they are not expecting it.

 

[Bryonato]

I really love coming up toward the ledge and using glide attack to cover the space in front of me. If the opponent gets hit by it at higher percents I've found it can semi-reliably lead into a USmash kill.

 

[BlinkIV]

Yeah, I love how it auto-cancels off a ledge, even while the hitbox remains intact, it's soooooo good.

 

[Redd]

Subbing. Picked up Pit today. Def maining him.

 

[SpiderMad]

I'm surprised they never made a muscular Pit like they did for Charizard, I need it.
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=27436

I downloaded this Pit vertex where he has demon horns and no tiara, but they are green (the same color as the main vine of his leaf tiara) so I'm trying to fine out how to color that vine part/his horns but there doesn't seem to be a texture to it. Also there's an "Env" texture I have no clue what that is. Nevermind his horns/tiara vine is in his komono texture

I also might make a Pit texture similar to what I did for Diddy where he has tron colors
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=31734

The BEST textures for Diddy/Pit/Marth and a lot of characters would be if they hoodies, but no one as far as I know made any hoody vertexes for either of them.

I practiced arrow control for a bit, got the mastery of controlling a single arrow. At first I didn't know how they work but now I know you just have to go through each pivot/notch of direction and only keep up at the maximum pace the arrow allows or it'll not read the direction.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2ofPVwPreU
Now mastering anything with like TWO arrows is impossible. Surely you guys don't have any double arrow tricks right? Also the only way to do glide attack is with Z right?

How'd he do the first one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9MY9_pwudM

Pit seems to have the longest Glide toss in the game, seems even longer than Luigi's

 

[Needsmorespin]

Picked up Pit again, felt like reliving the 2.1 days...God I forgot how much I loved playing as him ps dat U-smash

 

[Vixen]

His usmash is kinda amazing.

Sent from my Event using Tapatalk 2

 

[Divock]

I just want to say...

I finally spiked someone with Pit's Dair.

They didn't believe me when I told them it could. The feeling was so good.

It's still so friggin hard to do though.

 

[BlinkIV]

Nice, Divock. Now your next objective is combo'ing after the spike.

 

[Vixen]

Dairspike is pretty easy to be fair. Just gotta practice it.

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[QraQ]

I noticed that a lot of players don't make use of Pit's quick ledge grab with glide. I haven't even seen a lot of people do it for edge hog/guarding. I'm not sure why though, it's such a good tool to catch people when they don't expect the grab. If you get it off perfect it is instant and you get the same invincibility frames as if you were grabbing the ledge (which you are im just stating it's instantaneous grab). I use it a lot to usually dair, nair or uair opponents trying to hug the wall to recover. even just using as a ground mindgame isn't bad. Quick grab, ledge hop to arrows or dair.
On another note, I just feel like backthrow, double arrow gimps work too well close to the ledge lulz.

 

[Vixen]

^Yeah that was one thing about your game that made me happy. I discovered and posted about it back in 2.0, but Fly was the only player for the LONGEST time to take advantage of my discovery. So every time I see QraQ use the yoshi edgehog with glide, I'ma happy girl. <3

BTW, I entered PM at Zenith. Once I get knocked out, I'm gonna hop on dat commentary! Hope to spread the knowledge. Wish me luck/root for me on stream? <3

 

[Chibi-Chan]

What's the trick for Dair Spike? Has to be tipped like Marth and then.. something else? Never seen it.

Also what the hell is up with the Pit AI? Have you seen it? I thought it was impossible to recode the Brawl AI with the stuff P:M uses but there he is spamming his good Wavedash, sweetspotting his upB all day and in general perfectly adjusted to his new mechanics.

 

[Bryonato]

It has a pretty specific hitbox. Has to be tippered at the end part of the swing.

 

[SpiderMad]

Made this http://smashboards.com/threads/tier-list-speculation.331666/page-86#post-15706370

 

[BlinkIV]

Despite the nerfs that Pit has recieved, I still believe he's still a solid character. Personally, I agree with these changes, especially the U-Smash adjustment.

To be honest, U-Smash was pretty fraudulent, it killed early, it started tons of combos that led to high %'s, and left opponents in bad positions for Pit to capitalize and take stocks relatively easy against most of the cast. Now, with it being adjusted, it's a little more fair, but they've still managed to make it useful. I can still land a U-Smash at low %'s and still manage to get a high damaging combo off of it.

Here's an example (These are done are real people, not CPU's): D-Throw > U-Tilt > U-Smash > Grab D-Throw < D-air > D-air > Up-B. This does kill on some stages with relatively small stages, this same combo will kill around high 70%/low 80% on like PS2, Skyloft, Norfair, etc.

The other changes I noticed so far are:
Arrow CD increased(?)
Aerial Up-B given a little more height
D-Tilt sends slightly at a different angle, not just straight up

Anything else I'm missing?

 

[SpiderMad]

You can't even SH Arrow waveland anymore, nor AGT after it

 

[BlinkIV]

That's because of the CD being increased from the arrows.

 

[cmart]

Yeah, I'll just confirm that 90% of Mad's list is incorrect. Pit had very few changes between 2.5b and 2.6, and most of them were decently noticeable (up smash, down throw, arrow cooldown). I think Mad is gettting reverse-placedbo'd or something.

 

[BlinkIV]

Those 3 were definitely fair, imo. I'll continue to rep Pit, either way. I was hoping those would get adjusted, and you guys seem to have done a great job on keeping Pit's overall game the same. I 100% agree with this, lol.

 

[SpiderMad]

There was so much potential when SH Arrow was able to Waveland/AGT/DJ. Besides the point of it being slower/laggy hurts his overall speed of things

Yeah, I'll just confirm that 90% of Mad's list is incorrect. Pit had very few changes between 2.5b and 2.6, and most of them were decently noticeable (up smash, down throw, arrow cooldown). I think Mad is gettting reverse-placedbo'd or something.

So Bair, Side-b, and Up-b are all the exact same?

 

[cmart]

Yep, exactly the same.

 

[BlinkIV]

Yep, exactly the same.

I feel like Up-B goes a little higher, that's odd. Hey, would you (Or anyone else) possibly be able to send me Pit's frame data?

 

[cmart]

Sorry, it's not like that data exists in any collected form. You can look through his .pac to determine most of it though.

 

[BlinkIV]

Mmk, I thought I saw a thread in smashmods in early 2.1 with it, but it's quite alright, thanks though.

 

[SpiderMad]

Mmk, I thought I saw a thread in smashmods in early 2.1 with it, but it's quite alright, thanks though.

I wish someone would make a guide specifically how to make frame data threads off PSA information

I hate the arrow changes so much, you guys weren't even using SH Arrow waveland/AGT stuff to know

 

[Vixen]

pits usmash nerf was huge and neeeeeeeeeds to be reverted.

 

[BlinkIV]

Not really, it's still good. That's my opinion, I'm fine with these changes, and they aren't affecting the way I play the character. Instead of complaining, just re-learn and adapt to it.

 

[SpiderMad]

I scream myself to sleep every night in nightmares of not being able to SH Arrow > WL/AGT/DJ anymore and thus not playing the character: all because none of you knew it existed to begin with when ya'll changed arrow cooldown to ruin it.

 

[Archangel]

anyone know who's idea it was to change the Upsmash?

 

[BlinkIV]

I knew it existed, I didn't find it way too useful, since there were better things to do imo. I'm not sure why the arrow CD was increased either, but I'm still finding uses for it.

Archangel: I've got no idea, the move is still good to me, but it doesn't lead to every kill anymore, which is a good thing.

 

[Archangel]

Archangel: I've got no idea, the move is still good to me, but it doesn't lead to every kill anymore, which is a good thing.

but it brings back the 2.1 problem of alot of characters being able to just press Down and then punish you for using the move.

on a positive not it can juggle some mid-light characters...but I never had issues with light characters in 2.5...except for Luigi -_-...that mother ****ers!

 

[cmart]

I actually find juggling Luigi pretty easy - just upair into him and his nair loses.

On Upsmash:

Pit's a funny character to design right now due to the elephant in the room - everything we do ends up being attributed as a reaction to Armada. Honestly, we're pretty supportive of Armada in the backroom, and I personally haven't seen him do anything abusive with the character, but there is a lot of sentiment from the public that we need to nerf the character. We resisted that temptation for 2.6 - all of our Pit changes were done without consideration of Armada's performance, and were each considered in a vacuum.

For Upsmash, we took a hard look at its properties and came to the conclusion that we'd overdone it. The move had ginormous hitboxes that covered the entire space in front of Pit, a decent bit above him, and a notable amount behind. You could suck a crouching Squirtle right off the ground. And you could do it a 0 since the move broke crouch-canceling immediately. Consider as well the fast start-up, and the fact that at low percents you can fluidly combo into and out of the move and you start to see why it was a bit silly. For 2.6 we decided to clean up the hitboxes (again lol) and properly sync'd them to Pit's blade movement. The move should hit where he attacks and no where else now. The knockback was also greatly reduced at low percentages while being compensated at the high end. It no longer breaks CC immediately, but should still be useful as a kill move.

All that being said, I hear the complaints, and promise that we'll continue looking at this move ( and others ) in our quest to hit the right sweetspot on design and balance. I personally feel that Pit is very close design-wise, and just needs some tweaks here and there to hit the right balance. Regardless, keep letting us know what you think, I promise that none of it falls on deaf ears.

 

[BlinkIV]

That's right, there isn't anything he really abuses with Pit. I'm sure everything you're trying to do with Pit is for the greater good of the character. However, I'm not having many problems with Pit, except the Up-smash change. I know it's an okay change for you, but when I'm playing him against others, and I'd Up-smash at low%. They would get barely launched, and they would be so close, they would be able to punish you right after it, despite them being hit. Not to mention it's even worse when you include SDI into the mix, it's kind of like Pit's F-Smash in Brawl, where you can SDI the first hit and completely dodge the second hit of it.

I know there's other options to take in that form of a situation, but at the same time, there may be times when that option may be needed, and it would likely cost you either a high % combo, or a stock (Thank you, Strong Bad). Either way, I'm sure the Up-Smash changes is a hit or miss type of deal, so take your time in finding what would be right for the character.

 

[Archangel]

^ what Sai said. I mean....the Utilt is stronger than the Usmash at low %.....kinda weird....but at the same time I'm sure it can't be easy so I'll remain patient. For now I'll just limit my use with the Usmash until it's got more of a use.

as for the whole Armada thing. He's simply playing the character about as good as he can be played an nobody has had time to adjust to it yet. Not to mention alot of people don't know pit's weaknesses yet and they are just too overwhelmed by the good things that he's got.

Imagine if Falco was a new comer for exampled...alot of people would be crying nerf if a PP level Falco started ****ing people up and nobody had seen the character or what he could do before.

 

[Vixen]

If you want to nerf pits usmash give him a viable answer to shield and cc.

I stick by my opinion that slightly more range on his normals is all he needs as a character.

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[cmart]

Imagine if Falco was a new comer for exampled...alot of people would be crying nerf if a PP level Falco started ****ing people up and nobody had seen the character or what he could do before.

I was actually around back when Falco being good was a novelty. Bombsoldier really shook things up, and it was funny seeing everyone copying his style almost overnight. Funny in retrospect I mean - at the time it was really annoying.

 

[BlinkIV]

Pit's Up-B OoS seems better to me now, it seems to fully connect against most approaches, and both hits actually connect now.

I somewhat agree with Mizuki, Pit could use a little more range on some of his attacks, if it's not possible, we'll find other ways.

 

[Archangel]

I was actually around back when Falco being good was a novelty. Bombsoldier really shook things up, and it was funny seeing everyone copying his style almost overnight. Funny in retrospect I mean - at the time it was really annoying.

for the record I didn't copy Armada's style at all. I was doing most of those things in 2.0/2.1

Adam and I have talked ALOT about pit over the past year or so though. I think it's fair to say we influenced eachother. In 2.0 I wasn't sure about the use of Dair for example. He helped me see the use of DAIR-DAIR-DAIR-up-B. I helped him see the use for Glide-combo continuations/finishers and alot of other things we just kinda figured out on our own. Each Pit has similarities but I think it's safe to say most of us have our own signatures.

The pits feel more like Melee's Luigi's. A handful of different types of good players who our each unique and talented in their own way.

@ Mizuki. Either more Range or more Priority on some(nair!) I still think the Nair hit's janky against some characters or they just CC-upsmash/shine(see fox) or they use the brawl shields and grab you so...it's difficult to approach safely. There is always the option to not approach but that doesn't work on everybody. Thankfully Pit's better than at least half of the cast but that's not going to hold. Therefore I suggest giving him something safe...aside from arrows from across the street...that **** gay lol.

 

[BlinkIV]

One thing that caught my mind is, what if Pit was given the ability to DACUS instead? Possibly give him the gatling combo as well? Wouldn't that possibly compensate for how his U-Smash was adjusted?