Should we swtich to project M?

[Zodiac]

So I've been thinking a lot lately about having Link as my main, and while being an all link main for some time I know well (As do many of us) that he can never really be a viable tournament character, to put it bluntly a link will never win a regional or national tournament.

However, Project m's link is a whole lot better than melee's link, and i'm not sure if any of you have noticed but P:m has been blowing up a lot lately, especially since FC's live stream got it so much attention. Link is plenty viable in that game as a character that can win tournaments. I've actually decided to switch my link maining from melee to project: m. And I think I will get a lot more reward out of maining link there than I ever did in melee.

So? Discuss?

 

[BRLNK88]

YESSIR, THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL PEOPLE!!!

Unfortunately, my Melee community is a bunch of stubborn tier-whoring mules that refuse to play PM with me. After 2 matches "Marth doesn't feel like Melee Marth." *goes back to Melee*.
That's what I have to deal with.
It's never going to get past their thick heads, they just refute Austin is the Melee capital of Texas and I shouldn't be undermining what they built.
Meanwhile, Sethlon is leading a PM revolution in Dallas, and people are jumping in thanks to his reputation.

But beyond that, I think if they can get the tethers to be like Melee, Link will be a force to deal with, certainly tournament viable.
I think the top Melee players who occasionally use him in Melee could even be prone to use him seriously in PM, not just random gimmicks like when Mango went Link against Kage.

 

[crush]

People like you that switch games because they think their character isnt good enough to win arent the type of people that are going to win a regional/national.

 

[BRLNK88]

Project M is made to be like Melee, this isn't the same as a Roy main switching to Brawl because he doesn't think Roy has any potential.

And personally I don't care about winning in the first place, I care about having fun.
I find Link way more fun in PM, because he's more viable. Having to constantly deal with crippling disadvantages isn't fun for me.

 

[Problem2]

People like you that switch games because they think their character isnt good enough to win arent the type of people that are going to win a regional/national.

You can't win a national by maining a character that is not viable either.

YESSIR, THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL PEOPLE!!!

Unfortunately, my Melee community is a bunch of stubborn tier-whoring mules that refuse to play PM with me. After 2 matches "Marth doesn't feel like Melee Marth." *goes back to Melee*.
That's what I have to deal with.
It's never going to get past their thick heads, they just refute Austin is the Melee capital of Texas and I shouldn't be undermining what they built.
Meanwhile, Sethlon is leading a PM revolution in Dallas, and people are jumping in thanks to his reputation.

But beyond that, I think if they can get the tethers to be like Melee, Link will be a force to deal with, certainly tournament viable.
I think the top Melee players who occasionally use him in Melee could even be prone to use him seriously in PM, not just random gimmicks like when Mango went Link against Kage.

I'll trade you cities

Those "mules" have a right to complain when P:M actually doesn't have the same physics. There is a frame delay when jumping, running, walking, or air dodging that hasn't been fixed yet, but that's not the only thing wrong. Launch collision, the thing that happens in Brawl when a character is knocked into another one during a free for all or teams, occasionally happens at random, which makes P:M teams inconstant at times and can steal wins. Shielding has the same stun as in Melee, but the shield sliding physics are still 100% Brawl, meaning you slide away from shield pressure and power shielding is still god like.

The reason DFW has been so active lately isn't because Melee players are playing P:M but because BRAWL players are playing P:M. And yes, they are all pretty good at it. Most of the Melee vets from DFW kind of drag their feet when it comes to playing P:M. I know Emily and Tai don't like to. Denthorn and I are always on the fence about it. I don't mind spicing things up a bit with something different every now and again, but I dislike how it ate away our Melee scene. Because we have 3 Brawl tournament hosts, 1 P:M host, and 1 Melee host. We see 4x as many P:M events because it's always a side event at Brawl tourneys.


@Original Poster: I wouldn't bother with making Project M your main game. It has a lot of hype right now, and it will have lots of hype when the first full build comes out, but it's very unlikely that it will ever be more than a side event game. And honestly, Link still doesn't have what it takes to be a dominate character in P:M. Sheik and Fox are still "unwinnable" match-ups. They will still overwhelm him and until they fix his tether, Link doesn't stand much of chance at all as soon as he's knocked off stage.

 

[crush]

You can't win a national by maining a character that is not viable either.

i think if armada can beat hbox and pc with young link, and if hbox can beat mccain and zhu with ness, then link can win a regional.

 

[BRLNK88]

You can't win a national by maining a character that is not viable either.


I'll trade you cities

Those "mules" have a right to complain when P:M actually doesn't have the same physics. There is a frame delay when jumping, running, walking, or air dodging that hasn't been fixed yet, but that's not the only thing wrong. Launch collision, the thing that happens in Brawl when a character is knocked into another one during a free for all or teams, occasionally happens at random, which makes P:M teams inconstant at times and can steal wins. Shielding has the same stun as in Melee, but the shield sliding physics are still 100% Brawl, meaning you slide away from shield pressure and power shielding is still god like.

The reason DFW has been so active lately isn't because Melee players are playing P:M but because BRAWL players are playing P:M. And yes, they are all pretty good at it. Most of the Melee vets from DFW kind of drag their feet when it comes to playing P:M. I know Emily and Tai don't like to. Denthorn and I are always on the fence about it. I don't mind spicing things up a bit with something different every now and again, but I dislike how it ate away our Melee scene. Because we have 3 Brawl tournament hosts, 1 P:M host, and 1 Melee host. We see 4x as many P:M events because it's always a side event at Brawl tourneys.


@Original Poster: I wouldn't bother with making Project M your main game. It has a lot of hype right now, and it will have lots of hype when the first full build comes out, but it's very unlikely that it will ever be more than a side event game. And honestly, Link still doesn't have what it takes to be a dominate character in P:M. Sheik and Fox are still "unwinnable" match-ups. They will still overwhelm him and until they fix his tether, Link doesn't stand much of chance at all as soon as he's knocked off stage.

Sheik doesn't have her ******** grab game on Link anymore, and Link's improved frame data helps against Fox.
And when I mean stubborn, I mean they refuse to even play friendlies. JF and AustinRC play from time to time, but most of the rest of them flat out refuse.
I don't know about you, but I'm personally sick of playing the same MUs over and again. The community is packed with Marths and Sheiks, so for me its either Marth dittos or Marth/Sheik, two MUs that suck all the fun out of the game for me. I can't do spacies or falcon, too technical, and they're all too good for me to use Link.
Also, clearly you're overstating those bugs that need to be fixed, Hbox, Axe and Kage all play the game SERIOUSLY, and pretty much every region now has exclusive tourneys for it. If the bugs were really that bad no high level Melee player would touch the game beyond randomly playing it for friendlies. They adjust to whatever current differences exist and adapt.
I think you're being too pessimistic, especially saying once the final build is release it won't be more than a side event. This game has been meticulously created to stand on its own, not just be a gimmick like Brawl plus or Brawl minus. You don't know how lucky you are to have Sethlon in your community, his Sonic kicks my *** but I have way more fun fighting it.

 

[Zodiac]

I think right now link still has a lot of room for improvement in P:M. I agree with that, but he is much easier to work with against spacies than he used to be, and if HDL and GERM can get to such a high level with melee link don't you think that kind of hard work can go much further in P:M?

And as I said before I agree both link in P:M and P:M itself have a ways to go. But when it gets its first full release and they fix all the said issues don't you think it would be nice to have a head start on things instead of just jumping into the fray? I mean no Link won't be exactly the same as he is now but we will have a better feel for the character and more specifically the match up's in project M.

And as for project m not picking up on a large scale due to smash 4, I would wager Smash 4 won't be until 2014 and P:M 's first full release will be around for close to a year before that happens. (I don't know of course but its an educated guess)

People like you that switch games because they think their character isnt good enough to win arent the type of people that are going to win a regional/national.

Also just to be clear I'm not switching games, I love melee and I will keep playing it, but Link is the reason I picked up the game in the first place and I am a very competitive person. So if Project M can serve both my Appetite for Link in a fighting game and my desire to whoop the crap out of everyone else in the state than I'm going to main Link in that.

i think if armada can beat hbox and pc with young link, and if hbox can beat mccain and zhu with ness, then link can win a regional.

Link has manageable match-ups against all the high tiers EXCEPT Sheik, Fox and Falco. The latter two are 90-10 at the highest level. And Jigg's is one of the most manageable match-ups for Link out of all of them, especially for young link. Also, Ness is faster than Link and has superior fast faller combo's which is why he is better versus spacies.

 

[Onomanic]

I'd like to remind you guys that P:M Link is very capable of incorporating Brawl ATs and strategies such as DACUS, Glide tossed bombs, and zair. And the AGT (I'm not sure if that's in Melee or not, I'm pretty sure it's not). I suppose what I'm getting at is that P:M Link's metagame will start out similar to Melee Link, but can and has a lot of potential to evolve into something a lot more deadly.

 

[Zodiac]

yea, also, lets not forget SD remix link (I am beta testing SD remix and he is getting quite a few buff's atm) I'm not sure if sd remix will ever catch on because its much harder to run on a wii compared to project m

 

[MT_]

JF and AustinRC play from time to time, but most of the rest of them flat out refuse.
I don't know about you, but I'm personally sick of playing the same MUs over and again. The community is packed with Marths and Sheiks, so for me its either Marth dittos or Marth/Sheik, two MUs that suck all the fun out of the game for me. I can't do spacies or falcon, too technical, and they're all too good for me to use Link.

So because you don't share the Austin community's drive to get better at a game we love (melee) you are going to outright insult and slander the entire community because we play melee instead of p:m? It's pretty despicable that you go around everywhere on smashboards calling all of Austin "tier-whoring mules" as a result of your frustration of not being able to compete with link.

99% of players would be extremely happy with a scene that has several players that are better than themselves, yet somehow you convinced yourself that that is a bad thing. I don't mind that you enjoy p:m but don't go around blatantly insulting our community for such obnoxious reasons that essentially equate to "I don't agree with the opinions of the rest of the community".

 

[commonyoshi]

I can't do spacies or falcon, too technical

With that kind of mindset Link's really not the problem.

 

[BRLNK88]

I don't care at all that most of you are better than me, nor do I mind that you all like Melee, the only reason I complain is that most of you never even give PM half a chance.
You have smashfests at your place all the time but I'm quite certain you never have PM at them. Have you actually tried playing it for more than a few minutes/matches? Anupam's post a while back sums it up, "All I needed was two matches to decide it sucks", on an outdated version I might add.
I've been hounded to make efforts to get good at Melee, I have and they failed, but why should I even bother when no one else will reciprocate?

With that kind of mindset Link's really not the problem.

Link isn't a technical character... if you know the basic Melee techs (SHFFL, waveland, etc) and can space you can play him. Those that play him at a high level obviously do have good tech skill, but does that really help them win?
That's why a lot of beginners initially try to pick him up.

Link has manageable match-ups against all the high tiers EXCEPT Sheik, Fox and Falco. The latter two are 90-10 at the highest level. And Jigg's is one of the most manageable match-ups for Link out of all of them, especially for young link. Also, Ness is faster than Link and has superior fast faller combo's which is why he is better versus spacies.

Meh... Falco is semi-manageable. He's slower on the ground and has an incredibly easy to gimp recovery. It's also really easy to combo him at low-ish to mid percents.
He can be really annoying though with the lasers.

 

[crush]

and they're all too good for me to use Link.

what the *** dose this mean

 

[MT_]

I don't care at all that most of you are better than me, nor do I mind that you all like Melee, the only reason I complain is that most of you never even give PM half a chance.
You have smashfests at your place all the time but I'm quite certain you never have PM at them. Have you actually tried playing it for more than a few minutes/matches? Anupam's post a while back sums it up, "All I needed was two matches to decide it sucks", on an outdated version I might add.
I've been hounded to make efforts to get good at Melee, I have and they failed, but why should I even bother when no one else will reciprocate?

Rohan, you are NOT entitled to having the community play a game that you want us to try. Of COURSE I don't have P:M at my smashfests because the game that I play is MELEE, not P:M. You can't just bring a new game to the community formed around a specific game and expect everyone to give it a chance (even though many of us have). It would be the same thing as JF coming into the community, asking everyone to play King of Fighters, and then when no one does he goes around all over smashboards (yes you do this) complaining about how everyone in the Austin melee community are a bunch of narrow-minded tier *****s who won't give KoF a chance. And no, it doesn't matter that P:M is modeled around melee. They aren't the same game, even if P:M is admittedly a good game. But a game being a "good game" that is similar to the one we do play is NOT grounds for expecting anyone to play it.

We want you to get better at melee because that's the community we are. A MELEE community. NOT a P:M community. Also because of the fact that most of your complaints with melee are directly linked to you not being able to do well (matchup johns after matchup johns after matchup johns). It's incredulous how you can accuse our entire scene of being tier *****s when you're switching ENTIRE GAMES because your character is better in P:M. A tier ***** is someone who will switch mains to play a better character with better matchups, but you're doing something so hypocritical by switching to P:M so that the character you main is better.

In any case, you're NOT entitled to any of us giving P:M a chance, and if that is your only complaint, then stop going around all of smashboards complaining about how Austin melee is just a bunch of tier *****s or whatever other insult and slander that's been born from your bitterness toward us. The Austin melee scene is a group of great, fun, and nice people, but we're not going to let you get away with you being absolutely conceited and portraying us as "stubborn tier-whoring mules" with "thick heads" to whatever forums that you use.


EDIT: @Zodiac sorry for bringing this drama into your thread like this, but things needed to be said.

 

[Bigglestheman]

With that kind of mindset Link's really not the problem.

The Hero of Time is never the problem.

 

[BRLNK88]

By that logic MT, if Smash 4 ends up being similar to Melee but not exactly the same, would you still play it? And Link has more manageable MUs in PM, he likely still won't be highly ranked and thus its not tier-whoring.

what the *** dose this mean

It means they're already better than me, and using a character that additionally has extreme MU disadvantages just makes it worse.

 

[MT_]

No I wouldn't play Smash 4.

 

[Zodiac]

Lol wow, I guess it depends on how far your loyalties to a certain character goes, most of us here in the link boards are only sticking with link because we love his playstyle/ are zelda fans. Now I can understand PERFECTLY not wanting to pick up project m because you like melee better, afterall I still play melee with other characters but the fact that link is better in a game much like melee and that has a descent scene is a draw.

 

[Juushichi]

Switch to or play P:M if you think it appeals to you.

There is nothing saying that you can't play both. HBox, Axe and Kage play and enjoy both. There's nothing stopping you from playing whatever you want. You can try to dress up the game any way you want, but if people don't want to play and they are adamant about it... then let them do them. People like crush or people that want to shove P:M in unwilling parties faces are just obnoxious.

Also, for those who think that the game will be "forever side tournament", it entirely depends on the community backing from here on. FC got 100+ and loads of people going for P:M only. JCeaser is hosting his second and what I imagine will be a large P:M only tournament that gets other regions. If you build the community correctly, they'll come. It's what the smash community uses as a cornerstone in the first place.

 

[crush]

It means they're already better than me, and using a character that additionally has extreme MU disadvantages just makes it worse.

so youre not gonna play link vs them because ur not good enough to play link vs them







also jewshichi i play project m like every NE tronament that has it as a side evetn
and w/ hotdogturetl

im just trnya convert some of the PM casua l scrubs to the superior gamee
im like a missionary

 

[Goast]

I actually don't play link on project melee. I personally like the way he is on melee. Link is much better at this stage of his development on pm though. no question his tournament performance will improve but I found other characters much more enjoyable.

 

[J.Shadows]

Id rather play melee than project m any day of the week. You guys need to man up

 

[Goast]

Id rather play melee than project m any day of the week. You guys need to man up

Easy to say when you're already at the top of links metagame lol

 

[crush]

id rather play melee than project m any day of the week. You guys need to man up

<3333333333333

 

[cannedbread]

im just trnya convert some of the PM casua l scrubs to the superior gamee
im like a missionary

since when do casual scrubs go to tournaments

 

[MALVM MALVM]

Have any of you ever noticed that you can search YouTube for Daigo vs Jusitn Wong for almost every fighting game out there and find an awesome match? The reason for that is that there are a lot of MvCs and SFs out there. This means that there are a bunch of installments in those franchises but also that there are a bunch of games similarly structured. We in Smash have no such luxury. If we want a new perspective on Melee, the best we can do is pick up Smash 64. Brawl is just Brawl and the only other game that I can think of that's similarly structured to the Smash line is that digimon game. What we're getting is an opportunity to explore a different game that's similar enough to Melee to have some ideas bleed over.
As for the whole idea that we should switch to P:M because P:M Link is so much better. The reason I play Link is because Link is the character I am most comfortable with. If sith starts to hit the fan, I want to make sure that there's a character I know how to play so naturally and completely that I can play him thinking only about my opponent's head. I play Falco as well, and I'm starting to feel better about him. If someone comes up with some trick that shuts my Falco down so completely I have no idea how to dig my way out, I'll switch to Link. If they try to pull anything on me as Link, my head'll be so far inside that floppy thinking cap that I'll be able to adapt more easily to whatever they feel like throwing at me.

 

[FooltheFlames]

Project M is made to be like Melee, this isn't the same as a Roy main switching to Brawl because he doesn't think Roy has any potential.

And personally I don't care about winning in the first place, I care about having fun.
I find Link way more fun in PM, because he's more viable. Having to constantly deal with crippling disadvantages isn't fun for me.

Why play at all if you dont play to win? There is no point.
Anyways whats all this about Project: M? I never heard of it before but I will certainly give it a try. How do I get a hold of it?

 

[Bigglestheman]

Id rather play melee than project m any day of the week. You guys need to man up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVNL70dEmTU
Like this?

 

[J.Shadows]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVNL70dEmTU
Like this?

Exactly

 

[Bigglestheman]

We just need to find a locker to break this hex.

 

[Zodiac]

After playing pm link for about a week exclusively, meaning I did not touch melee link, I went back to melee link for some friendlies and Melee Link feels soooo much more refined there, and much easier to control to boot. (See what I did thar?) I think I will dual main them from now on, while PM Link is a lot better I still like the control I have over melee Link a lot better.

 

[DuckPimp]

if you want to play a game where link is a pretty good character, then go play p:m. if you want to play melee, play melee.

its kind of an individual choice.

 

[Skler]

What it comes down to is that I don't play Melee because I like playing Link, I play Melee because I think it's the smoothest, most responsive, most enjoyable fightan' game around. If I wanted Link to be good in a fighting game I'd play...

...

...

Soul Calibur 2? I hear he's kind of viable there.

I enjoy PM, but it still has some nasty Brawl pieces that haven't been removed yet due to how messed up that game is. The PM folks did great and it's 100x better than Brawl, but Melee is still the best Melee simulator out there.

 

[Bigglestheman]

Skler, Link is bottom tier in SCII.

Of course skill>tier.
SC2 Cannes04 World Cup Semi Final France vs Belgium #2
Perfect example for SCII.

 

[Skler]

Darn it, he's so easy to beat bad people . I guess side stepping dodges everything he does though...

 

[kd-]

Biggles you truly are the man.

If you play/know SCII even slightly competitively, you know how truly awful Yunsung is in that game, especially compared to the game's top tier.

 

[Bigglestheman]

Darn it, he's so easy to beat bad people . I guess side stepping dodges everything he does though...

I believe that Heihachi, Link, and Spawn were banned in tournament play because they're console exclusive. Link is still is a fun character to play as, and I wish he got to stay in the series.
Just do in SCII what you did with Link in melee. Of course, it would be friendlies for life unless you somehow got people to go to a SCII tourney even though SCV is out I still love SCII and Soul Edge that game is awesome. Melee tournaments should start having SCII at them as well that would be sick!

Biggles you truly are the man.

If you play/know SCII even slightly competitively, you know how truly awful Yunsung is in that game, especially compared to the game's top tier.

Thank you, I do like to live up to my name.
Yeah, most of my friends who don't know much think Nightmare is broken and OP and then I played Link and beat him. Of course, it's still fun to play Necrid against people.

Soul Calibur 2> PM

 

[Skler]

I remember SC2 being one of the more fun gamecube games out there. Then again, the list of really fun gamecube games is pretty small, and 90% of it is "Super Smash Brothers Melee" over and over again.

 

[Smurfy EXE]

crushnasty