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Should Planking (i.e. Ledgestalling) be Banned?
- Thread starter SamuraiPanda
- Start date
At the very least, we can take 50 matches that clearly have no planking, plot the data, find the bell curve, and then we can argue mathematically.
Oh, but it does have some counters. The problem is that things that counter a planking MK get owned by a non-planking MK.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Can't *******es like you realize that posting the same thing twice is idiotic. SBR will almost certainly vote on it but ther is such thing as community appeal.
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
People seem to keep forgetting that stalling is banned. Planking, as far as I'm concerned, is stalling. The ledge grab rule goes into play if the time limit runs out only. It's completely reasonable, and it's not preventing you from using the ledge strategically.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
No it depends. Jigglypuff forces you to approach offstage bu it isn't unbeatable like MK.
The Sauce Boss
Smash Ace
I just made a thread that will list all of it right here in tactical discussion.
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- Apr 10, 2008
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- 6,860
Except this is a Metaknight ditto... Neither has a projectile that can easily defeat planking, whereas several other characters do such as Snake, Diddy, and Pikachu.
And if all finals end up like this, MK will be banned and planking won't be a problem.
Except this is a Metaknight ditto... Neither has a projectile that can easily defeat planking, whereas several other characters do such as Snake, Diddy, and Pikachu.
And if all finals end up like this, MK will be banned and planking won't be a problem.
even with projectiles MK is certainly able to run out the clock.
SCOTU
Smash Hero
also, ppl overrate projectiles that can easily beat planking. Pikachu's and diddys are both extremely easy to avoid, and snakes aren't that hard.
However, planking doesn't really make you any better. There's always a way to get around it and it doesn't help you to beat better players. It just makes it easier to beat people you were already going to beat.
However, planking doesn't really make you any better. There's always a way to get around it and it doesn't help you to beat better players. It just makes it easier to beat people you were already going to beat.
As a general point, relying on judges should be a last-resort, worst-case option.
Judges are human. Humans make mistakes and are susceptible to corrupt behavior and abuse of power. Therefore, any rule set that relies solely on human discretion will suffer from mistakes, flaws, and abuses of power.
The ledge grab counter in Brawl is maintained by the Wii. The Wii cannot be bribed, it does not display favoritism, and it never makes mistakes while counting. The Wii also never has bad days that tempt it to blow off steam by DQ'ing an innocent player. The Wii doesn't have grudges, it doesn't have the potential to engage in petty, spiteful behavior, and it doesn't get distracted or make mistakes.
The Wii is consistent and unfailingly fair. It is perfectly unbiased.
Humans are not. This problem is multiplied and reinforced endlessly by the fact that this rule would give human judges the ability to DQ players based solely on their opinion that said player is "stalling". What is "stalling"? Whatever the judge wants it to be.
In a tournament with a $2,000+ prize on the line, is there anyone who honestly thinks it is unrealistic to imagine a bribed judge walking around DQ'ing players for "stalling" to ensure that his "favored players" reach the finals? It sounds far-fetched, but money is a powerful motivator.
Judges are human. Humans make mistakes and are susceptible to corrupt behavior and abuse of power. Therefore, any rule set that relies solely on human discretion will suffer from mistakes, flaws, and abuses of power.
The ledge grab counter in Brawl is maintained by the Wii. The Wii cannot be bribed, it does not display favoritism, and it never makes mistakes while counting. The Wii also never has bad days that tempt it to blow off steam by DQ'ing an innocent player. The Wii doesn't have grudges, it doesn't have the potential to engage in petty, spiteful behavior, and it doesn't get distracted or make mistakes.
The Wii is consistent and unfailingly fair. It is perfectly unbiased.
Humans are not. This problem is multiplied and reinforced endlessly by the fact that this rule would give human judges the ability to DQ players based solely on their opinion that said player is "stalling". What is "stalling"? Whatever the judge wants it to be.
In a tournament with a $2,000+ prize on the line, is there anyone who honestly thinks it is unrealistic to imagine a bribed judge walking around DQ'ing players for "stalling" to ensure that his "favored players" reach the finals? It sounds far-fetched, but money is a powerful motivator.
I dunno, the video seemed as if the Snake was unusually scared of ledges and MK camped the platform nearly as much as he did the ledge....
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
You will not get 50 ledge grabs in 7/8 minutes, and if you do, you were more than likely stalling (or trying to, anyway). And again, this is only if the time runs out, which clearly means you were stalling. And stalling is not legal.
there were 50 ledge grabs, and he certainly could have grabbed it less.. probably under 40
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You didn't plank that match. What you did there was abuse Metaknight. That wouldn't work with anyone else besides maybe Wario.
my point is you dont have to plank to run out a timed match
MK is stupid.
MK is stupid.
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And that's just another reason to ban MK instead of planking. It's funny how there's no problem with any other character that does it. w/e
SCOTU
Smash Hero
There need to be exceptions to this. In a game against Epic, which neither of us were really camping, i got 56 edge grabs and he got 47. It was on norfair. there are a lot of edges. **** happens.
Bowyer also runs the clock out against a lot of people by camping on stage w/ MK. Thats kinda why i like the "If time runs out, MK loses" rule more than the edgegrab rule. Maybe you could apply the edgegrab rule in the ditto or something, but MK can deal w/ planking, so whatever.
SwastikaPyle
Smash Ace
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- Oct 17, 2007
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No, you're just finding a conclusion that you want to find.
The game isn't broken. Metaknight is. Ban him, and suddenly this rule of planking is no longer a problem. Nobody else in the game can plank like him.
I think Norfair was one of the first to be brought up as being an exception.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
I like this rule a lot.
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
Well, most of the tournaments I've been to had Norfair banned, so I don't really think of that, but you have a point. Maybe there can just be a separate number for that stage, it's not like there's 20 exceptions here. It's a completely reasonable rule, I doubt it'll ever be broken unless you are seriously planking. I don't even have a problem with planking, and I wouldn't want it banned if it weren't for the ledge grab rule. I just see no issues with it, maybe other than the Norfair situation. It doesn't eliminate using the ledge strategically, but it will prevent ******** bull**** from happening.
SCOTU
Smash Hero
******** bull**** is just that. It's stupid. It's not, however, broken.
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 3,511
I take back my vote. After watching scotu's planking yesterday, we NEED the edge grab count rule.
also, other characters are capable of timing out games too... just nobody does.
lol, what a stupid rule. when games time out it isn't only because I don't approach the other person. If you notice, they aren't approaching me either. and projectile spamming doesn't count as approaching.
also, other characters are capable of timing out games too... just nobody does.
SwastikaPyle
Smash Ace
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- Oct 17, 2007
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- 811
Seriously, what is wrong with some of you? How could you honestly defend this as a technique? You seriously think that running away and grabbing onto a ledge for 8 minutes is a good competitive strategy?
No wonder smashboards is such a joke to the competitive gaming community.
No wonder smashboards is such a joke to the competitive gaming community.
Not quickly enough.
Is planking for 8 minutes any more stupid than getting a one-attack infinite off of a simple setup?
Who are you to judge the Smash community? How many competitive gaming communities are you in? Or are you just going by word of mouth?
Is planking for 8 minutes any more stupid than getting a one-attack infinite off of a simple setup?
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Its just forcing your opponent to approach offstage. Its just more dangerous. Thats not indefensible. MK's is. G&W's is pretty bad as well.
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
That could be argued.
Example: MK's IDC is ******** bull****. It's also broken.
SwastikaPyle
Smash Ace
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I'm not a fan of infinities either, but the majority of infinities I've seen require an extensive amount of button pressing and strongly practiced techniques, as well as requiring certain conditions for the infinite to happen. You could teach a three year old to plank effectively in five minutes.
And yeah, I am just going off of word of mouth. I've never heard any love for the smash community (although I suppose that could be because competitive gaming is just full of *******s in general).
illinialex24
Smash Hero
For MK likely yeah you could teach it effectively in 10 minutes. For Jigglypuff, not close. Same with Kirby.
If a 3-year-old could learn how to plank effectively in 5 minutes and beat people he couldn't before with that, I'd like to hear all about it.
For some reason everyone underrates being patient enough to stall out a full 8-minute timer.
For some reason everyone underrates being patient enough to stall out a full 8-minute timer.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Yeah and you also do have to react to other opponents. But a complexity issue is worthless. Practicality is much more useful. You do have to react to your opponent in this.
SwastikaPyle
Smash Ace
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MK is different from Jiggs and Kirby.
He has a sword, and incredible specials to help him get back to the edge with almost comical priority and speed. Hell, his down+b gives him complete invincibility when grabbing the edge.
I believe there is a number of ways to fight Jiggs and Kirb off the edge, but MK is a different matter entirely.
He has a sword, and incredible specials to help him get back to the edge with almost comical priority and speed. Hell, his down+b gives him complete invincibility when grabbing the edge.
I believe there is a number of ways to fight Jiggs and Kirb off the edge, but MK is a different matter entirely.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Thank you, it is what I have been saying. And now to counterract my view, here is exhibit A, which Veril was stupid enough to post considering me and him have been hiding it for a few months:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226991
Jigglypuff's safe infinite jump lightstep.
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This is why the ledgegrab rule doesn't work. You can plank until you've grabbed the ledge a couple times less than the limit, and then stall the rest of the match by jumping around platforms and such. There's no way to enforce a rule against it.
SwastikaPyle
Smash Ace
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I'd like to see the video of this jiggs technique, if it's really as broken as it sounds.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
He's making one I believe, its essentially a lightstep using jumps below the stage and since you are jumping, you can attack the entire time. So you are safe pretty much the entire time, unlike the sing lightstep.
SwastikaPyle
Smash Ace
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Can we just ban this technique the same as sonic stalling was banned then?
The planking thing is hard because it's interspersed with regular strategy (EVERYONE has to grab the ledge at some point). But if this jiggs thing is a standalone technique, wouldn't it be pretty easy to spot someone abusing it?