Should Peach be the best Character

[Luck-NYC/NJ]

lately my friend is getting more and more irrated with my peach. He is making the claim that Peach should be the best character because she does extremely well against all the characters below mid tier and below. She also counters 2 of the best top tier characters. He is also going to claim that this is rediculous because shes extremely easy to use. I dont exactly know how to argue back so id like to here everyones opinion.

I might get flamed for this but im really very curious and i didnt use the search function because times have probably changed since the last time this came up.

MOD'S: if this is in the wrong place please feel free to move it but please dont close it.

 

[tofucake]

lately my friend is getting more and more irrated with my peach. He is making the claim that Peach should be the best character because she does extremely well against all the characters below mid tier and below. She also counters 2 of the best top tier characters. He is also going to claim that this is rediculous because shes extremely easy to use. I dont exactly know how to argue back so id like to here everyones opinion.

I might get flamed for this but im really very curious and i didnt use the search function because times have probably changed since the last time this came up.

MOD'S: if this is in the wrong place please feel free to move it but please dont close it.

Well, A: There are only 2 top tier characters, B: No, she doesn't counter them, C: statistically, Peach mains are gay.

Finally, I hate Peach. That's the best argument I have.

 

[Luck-NYC/NJ]

good way to justify why shes either the best or not. secondly she is known for countering Marth and Falco.

please dont post if ur gona say peach is gay. i want serious answers.

 

[Blackshadow]

I think that the tier list as it is is accurate, and do you really think that Peach could be top tier? Do you honestly believe she outranks Fox Falco (I think Marth is above her aswell)? I await your answer.

 

[cradmazy_SKAG]

nope.

D-smash = top tier
fwd throw = top tier
ridiculous doki doki panic float (SMB2) = top tier
death turnip = WTF I HATE THIS EFFING GAME tier

rest of peach = ehhhh not so much

 

[Luck-NYC/NJ]

I think that the tier list as it is is accurate, and do you really think that Peach could be top tier? Do you honestly believe she outranks Fox Falco (I think Marth is above her aswell)? I await your answer.

uh marth is higher then her simply because of tournement results. Peach counters marth and so if there were simply more better peach players there would be far less marth players winning tournements knocking him down a notch. And Skag u left out the part about peach's godly recovery and turnip edgegaurding.

 

[Blackshadow]

You could say that for anyone. If more people played Ganon, he would eventually become top tier according to that logic. Hell, if Pichu was played alot more than he could become top tier using that logic. And just because Peach counters Marth doesn't mean she deserves to be above him. You know that Shiek is countered by IC but they don't replace her on the list, because she is a better character overall. Do you see what I'm saying?

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Peach's slowness and lack of range will always bring Peach below the other top tiers. She can't deal with speedy camping, and her moves aren't nearly as stringable. She's also a weak weak weak killer by comparision.

 

[Mic_128]

Sh's in Top tier in PAL though, due to general nerfing of all other tops.

 

[Barret3B]

I think I must of missed something, how on earth does peach counter marth?

 

[Zodiac]

nope.

D-smash = top tier
fwd throw = top tier
ridiculous doki doki panic float (SMB2) = top tier
death turnip = WTF I HATE THIS EFFING GAME tier

rest of peach = ehhhh not so much

yea, pretty much.

but really I FING HATE PEACH!! She anoyys the hell out of me really, all the stupid float cancels , dsmash spamming! I hate her. I was actually thinking of reasons why she wasnt top tier because, I do better vs fox than vs peach MUCH better. I dont have trouble against space animals, hell, I can beat a good sheik easier than a peach, and I play Link!

but after my venting, I have no idea why peach isnt rated top tier, I've wondered on many occasions, two others in my crew, one mains fox, the other sheik,Link,kirby. when using any other character but peach, he usually get beaten by two stock by the fox main, but with peach, he two stocks him half the time,. so I thought, theres got to be a reason for this . why isnt Peach top tier?! I dont know. but she should be.

 

[linkmastersword]

most people don't realize how to effectively fight peach. CCing and spaming aerials will get you killed. she has great ground priority and aerial game is used right with FCing.

basically, to get around peach's gayness, one must first understand what peach has trouble with.

we know that she is slow, both on the ground and in the air.
we know that her second air jump is very slow, in fact she actually dips down before going up.
we know that she has aerial lag after her moves.

what does this tell you? you have to fight very unnaturally.

lure her in to the air, then give her your most prioritizing attack. (ganon's uair, falco's bair, sheiks fair or uair, etc) most peachs won't pass up the opportunity to bust the dsmash, it's easy to get a peach to use it and then punish her for it.


Yes, she has super strengths that may surpass even fox and falco
No, she shouldn't be top tier because she has some huge weaknesses that better characters lack.

 

[Shellshock821]

Would someone please explain to me how Peach counters Marth? I was under the impression that the only character that truly countered Marth was Sheik. I play Marth and I've never seen any reason to believe that Peach counters Marth. Whether it's true or not I'd like some reasons why.

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

Yeah I was under the impression that Marth and Peach was pretty even, if anything a little in Marth's favor.

I don't mind fighting Peach much. Samus is the only character I really hate fighting.

 

[Lightshade]

There is no character that is the, "Best," it all depends on the skill of the player. But some characters have certain advantages over other characters (Marth against Samus, because Marth has no projectiles) but no character is the best.

 

[thatsmybutta]

i think the tiers are pretty accurate. and i really dont have a problem killing any peach with fox. waveshine upsmash ftw

 

[tarheeljks]

Peach does not counter Falco-- she has an advantage, but she is certainly not a counter.

 

[Link226]

Yea, Peach is a real ***** for me too. She has some crazy moves too but shes not better than Falco and Fox. So i guess shes good where shes at on the tier list. PEACH DOES NOT COUNTER MARTH ITS THE OTHER WAY AROUND! MARTHS RANGE GIVES HER A REALLY HARD TIME! Who the hell told u that lie?

 

[Tera253]

answer to the thread question:
no, Pikachu should be, just like in SSB64--or Falco.
nonetheless, Fox being top is fine.
~Tera253~

 

[Lightshade]

-Real answer to thread-
Like I said before, and the tiers are evidence, there is no best character, some characters have advantages over others, but they aren't better altogether. The tiers are an asumption of tournament results and should not be used as character rankings. It all comes down to the skill of the player.

 

[Samael_78]

yeah, someone can play with a top tier character and still suck with them. its all about the skill level of the person who plays with the character, and even still, that only establishes an individual level of play for the person not the everyone else out there.

 

[Platypus]

Peach and High Tier chars mix poorly due to stereotypes about tourneys.

 

[Lightshade]

yeah, someone can play with a top tier character and still suck with them. its all about the skill level of the person who plays with the character, and even still, that only establishes an individual level of play for the person not the everyone else out there.

Exactly. There is skill involved along with fast reflexes.

 

[BigRick]

- Peach is not the best character
- She doesn't counter Marth, neither Fox
- newbs think that Peach is top tier simply cause they jump into the ****

Plz stop posting those Skill > Tier comments into this thread. This is not the point of this topic. This thread is all about Tiers, not skill. Thx.

 

[purekorea]

most people don't realize how to effectively fight peach...

...what does this tell you? you have to fight very unnaturally.

This probably explains why your friend thinks peach is best.

My friend plays a falco and we usually go down the the last stock each game, but when I choose peach I can 3 and 4 stock him. I'm not good at float canceling while his falco can pillar combo and etc.

His main problem is CCing. He's so used to CCing and dtilting or shining me when I use other characters that he doesn't think to change his game style even though I've pointed out his problem.

 

[Luck-NYC/NJ]

BigRick peach counters marth for several reasons im not going to bring up because its too long and there has been a post about it already. if has been confirmed tht peach counters Falco, and Marth.

Nightshade: u said some chars hav advantages over others. That is the exact arguement. if peach does well against so many char's plus counters 2/4 of the best chars in the game, she should at least move up.

Thatsmybutta: Thts the thing peach has an even match up with the best character yet she can deal with him far better then most chars can because of her easy playability.

Again im a peach player myself but im just arguing my friends side til he gets here and just posts for himself.

 

[Fletch]

Peach in no way counters Marth at all. In fact, I'd say it's one of her worst matchups. And Peach should not be top tier at all, she gets ***** by Fox, I would say is generally even with Falco (hell, maybe even an advantage), and gets beaten by Sheik and Marth. Peach is simply too slow to compete with the characters above her, she's fine where she is, if anything, I'd say move Falcon above her, except for the fact that he gets ***** by the space animals worse than Peach does.

 

[BigRick]

BigRick peach counters marth for several reasons im not going to bring up because its too long and there has been a post about it already. if has been confirmed tht peach counters Falco, and Marth.

You're talking about this thread?: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=95168&highlight=Marth+counters+Peach

You're the only guy that says Peach>Marth in it. Every1 else either say Marth=Peach or Marth>Peach.

And tell your friend to learn how to beat Peach.

 

[Dice]

Peach countering marth? what the ****? Peach countering fox? what the ****? Marth and fox both have the advantage over peach. Falco and peach is kinda even, with peach having the slight advantage.

Any character can do well vs peach as long as you know how to play against her. If you eat downsmashes and fairs and nairs and turnips all day, then you'll get wrecked by peach.

 

[tarheeljks]

Peach does not counter Marth and she definitely doesn't counter Fox. Also, just b/c there is not one character that beats all other characters does not imply that there is not a best character.

@bigrick: i laughed extremely hard at your last two posts

 

[Luck-NYC/NJ]

omfg.i hate that the whole frikkin smash communtiy will not realize peach counters marth. the only way it seems i can convince u people is if i get the person who said it himself to come and explain it. the person im tlking about is M2K.

 

[Dice]

i would love to hear how exactly peach "counters" marth, please, enlighten me with your godlike smash wisdom

 

[ElfenLiedPeach]

Well, A: There are only 2 top tier characters, B: No, she doesn't counter them, C: statistically, Peach mains are gay.

Finally, I hate Peach. That's the best argument I have.

lol

Peach's slowness and lack of range will always bring Peach below the other top tiers. She can't deal with speedy camping, and her moves aren't nearly as stringable. She's also a weak weak weak killer by comparision.

This dicussion should've ended with this statement in my opinion. Even fast peaches are on the slow side compared to what some other characters are capable of.

She's very limited in her KO abilities to the point that Dreamland isn't as beneficial a counterpick as if would first seem with Peach's amazing recovery.

People that say peach takes no skill: find a large scale tournament and tell me if a peach can win the bracket without having really strong mindgames. I don't think i've seen a good peach (successful in high-level tournament play too) that didn't have incredible mindgames. People arguing the no skill based on lack of tech skill in peaches, look at Mike G plz.

People that say Peach counters Marth: please press reset on your brain. Marth's range is absolutely GHEY. Peach = Marth at best, but in my personal experiences, if you don't stay on top of your game, Peach can easily be taken advantage of in this matchup. Marth > Peach. Period.

Peach is by no means the best character in the game. Not to mention, the people above her on the tier list also counter/**** practically all midtier and lower, so people shouldn't be whining that Peach does.

 

[DippnDots]

omfg.i hate that the whole frikkin smash communtiy will not realize peach counters marth..

This is the kind of guy who wouldn't jump off a bridge if everyone else did

 

[Me14k]

uh marth is higher then her simply because of tournement results. Peach counters marth and so if there were simply more better peach players there would be far less marth players winning tournements knocking him down a notch. And Skag u left out the part about peach's godly recovery and turnip edgegaurding.

peach does not counter marth. A good marth owns a good peach. Peach cant attack marth in the air because of marth's range and his tilts.

peach does not have godly recovery, its very predictable..M@ and JIG have a better recovery.

now looking at fox's waveshine..if you do it perfectly..instant KO on peach.

 

[Mic_128]

omfg.i hate that the whole frikkin smash communtiy will not realize peach counters marth.

Maybe if you actually said how

 

[Banksya]

lol people say in here peach counters marth >_> thats smart...

 

[Nova485]

ThatHappyNigga please post again when you get some skills at this game. Let me predict how your games vs your friends go.

Go!!

You pull out turnips and spam for your life your friends have no mind games they get mad and jump in like freaks. In addition they dont Lcancel properly you shield grab them / r dodge their grabs and punish with fwd throw or dsmash. Your friends are very bright and see that this is totally working for them and they repeat until their stocks hit 0. Then they drop the controller and cry at how bad they are and curse peach.

All nubs who lose to peach cry about her being "broken" the same way they cry abouth marth being "broken". So as i said above, go get some skillls and learn the game before you post newbish statements and tell your friends to get skills and stop crying.

Marth => Peach in a Marth vs Peach matchup.

Fox > Peach.

 

[Emblem Lord]

M2K says alot of things about match-ups. Pretty much everything he says is based on HIS personal experience and not what has been proven by the smash community. Take what he says with a grain of salt.

Remember the pros are on another level and they have thier own personal weaknesses as well. Maybe M2K has trouble with high level peaches when he uses Marth. Who knows? PC has been know to say wierd things about match-ups too. Azen once said on the hub that Shiek vs marth is basically equal. Well, maybe for him it is. Keep these things in mind when asking people about match-ups. Thier personal experience WILL effect thier response.

That said. Back on topic.

ThatHappyNigga: Peach shouldn't be top. She doesn't counter Marth or Fox or Falco. This is fact. She is a monster, I will agree on that. But the other top 5 are monsters as well, and they are slightly better then her.

 

[Nurok]

So i talked to M2K
says peach sould sytay where she belongs
Marth>peach
or so he says.