Should "No Tripping" be a Tournament Standard?

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Thank you ph00t... i think.

That second paragraph was my entire point, the game is a different game without tripping. You can play the new version and even hold tournaments with it, but it will never be Brawl so it will never be part of Brawl tournaments.

Edit:
@Gofg: If people are hacking starcraft and holding tournaments, I don't mind at all. However, they are not tournaments using the original Starcraft.

 

[GofG]

Even if Blizzard encourages the hacks and hosts them on their website?

Edit: Wait. Are you saying that since this website is about the Super Smash Bros. franchise and because this modified version of Brawl is not a part of this franchise that we shouldn't be talking about it on smashboards? I'm trying to figure out if you are literally just arguing with the facts of the matter.

I will give you that we have modified Brawl and therefore it is not 100% Sakurai's Brawl, but it is still Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Did Blizzard release the stage creator used to make maps?

 

[GofG]

Yes, it came with the game, although people now use 3rd party stage creators. You are missing my point. The point is that, with nearly every competitive game out there, the players know what is best, not the developers, and playing the game that the developers intended you to play when the competitive players can modify it to suit the needs of the competitive scene is stupid.

Unless you are actually purely arguing over whether we are calling the modified version "Brawl" and you are somehow upset over the name of the game.

EDIT: One hour and three minutes. I won the thread.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Yes, it came with the game, although people now use 3rd party stage creators. You are missing my point. The point is that, with nearly every competitive game out there, the players know what is best, not the developers, and playing the game that the developers intended you to play when the competitive players can modify it to suit the needs of the competitive scene is stupid.

Unless you are actually purely arguing over whether we are calling the modified version "Brawl" and you are somehow upset over the name of the game.

EDIT: One hour and three minutes. I won the thread.

GofG, I cant see Tim's posts but I know you're pwning him.


(PS, you are teh winnar)

 

[M.K]

The comparison of items to tripping is stupid.
You don't trip into a Bob-omg and fly off the stage. You trip and either do the attack pop-up or roll away.

And stop with the stupid "ZoMG I TRIPPED INTO AN FSMASH :_;" thing. First of all, you shouldn't ****ing be running into Ike's FSmash anyways, so it's YOUR fault that you put yourself into the position in which the TRIP could cause you a life.
Tripping is just another thing to consider. "Should I approach, even with the possible chance of tripping into a counterattack?" should be an appropriate thing to question yourself, and to me, it helps further the community....
No Hacking Johns!
EDIT: Items can be turned off naturally, not through the artificial means of a HACKING TOOL. This is ridiculous! The argument "it sucks, we should turn it off" is possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard. "Ice Climber chaingrab is dumb! Hack to turn it off" "Pit's Recovery is DUMB! HACK to decrease the distance he goes!" "Meta-Knight has too fast attacks! HACK TO SLOW IT DOWN!"

These are all the same type of thing!!!! Do you see what this does to the community? If we turn off tripping, people will start to think that anything and everything cheap will be turned OFF! UGHHH! Stop this blastphamy, this argument is a lost cause, it will NEVER be accepted.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

The comparison of items to tripping is stupid.
You don't trip into a Bob-omg and fly off the stage. You trip and either do the attack pop-up or roll away.

And stop with the stupid "ZoMG I TRIPPED INTO AN FSMASH :_;" thing. First of all, you shouldn't ****ing be running into Ike's FSmash anyways, so it's YOUR fault that you put yourself into the position in which the TRIP could cause you a life.
Tripping is just another thing to consider. "Should I approach, even with the possible chance of tripping into a counterattack?" should be an appropriate thing to question yourself, and to me, it helps further the community....
No Hacking Johns!
EDIT: Items can be turned off naturally, not through the artificial means of a HACKING TOOL. This is ridiculous! The argument "it sucks, we should turn it off" is possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard. "Ice Climber chaingrab is dumb! Hack to turn it off" "Pit's Recovery is DUMB! HACK to decrease the distance he goes!" "Meta-Knight has too fast attacks! HACK TO SLOW IT DOWN!"

These are all the same type of thing!!!! Do you see what this does to the community? If we turn off tripping, people will start to think that anything and everything cheap will be turned OFF! UGHHH! Stop this blastphamy, this argument is a lost cause, it will NEVER be accepted.

no,tripping has no true effect while all that other stuff you said will not olny never happen,no one will support it,were making the game more competitive and theres honestly nothing wrong with that.remember were trying to remove the randomness factor,not broken ATs

 

[metaXzero]

Meta Kirby. Stop arguing that tripping doesn't effect matches. And keeping constant track of the POSSIBILITY of tripping is a losing strat.

ALSO↓

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amq0KhRleDQ

^This.

Seriously, anyone who supports tripping is going to burn in hell. It's a terrible ****ing thing that was prolly created while the dev team was high.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Meta Kirby, you are the epitome of one who argues this with really stupid shut, assuming we have no restraints.


Taking out tripping is different than editing characters, something we will not allow in tourneys, seriously, I've stated this throughout the topic, how are you not getting this ****.


We are discussing removing something that is a complete detriment, so quit with all this additional bull****.


And if anyone here actually mentions us buffing or nerfing characters to 'balance' the game, I will chuck rocks at you.

 

[Lutukor]

Meta, you're completely off mark. The point is that tripping is a completely random event which nobody has any control over when it happens, thus, it doesn't add to the game in any way.

Chaingrabs are annoying, but nobody wants it taken out. Pit's recovery height is annoying, but it's gimpable.

I could go on, but the point is that tripping is a random event that doesn't help anybody.

 

[Foxy]

And stop with the stupid "ZoMG I TRIPPED INTO AN FSMASH :_;" thing. First of all, you shouldn't ****ing be running into Ike's FSmash anyways, so it's YOUR fault that you put yourself into the position in which the TRIP could cause you a life.

Tripping is just another thing to consider. "Should I approach, even with the possible chance of tripping into a counterattack?" should be an appropriate thing to question yourself, and to me, it helps further the community....

I thought I'd read some pretty stupid things but this takes the cake. Here's a good comparison:

Power surges happen. They're rare, but when they happen if you don't have you can get extremely screwed over, unless you weren't doing anything important or just turned on your computer/whatever you're using, etc.

What you're saying is that if we had the chance to surge protect our devices that we shouldn't take it because people should take into account the chance of a power surge every time they turn on something connected to an outlet.

EDIT: Items can be turned off naturally, not through the artificial means of a HACKING TOOL. This is ridiculous! The argument "it sucks, we should turn it off" is possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard. "Ice Climber chaingrab is dumb! Hack to turn it off" "Pit's Recovery is DUMB! HACK to decrease the distance he goes!" "Meta-Knight has too fast attacks! HACK TO SLOW IT DOWN!"

These are all the same type of thing!!!! Do you see what this does to the community? If we turn off tripping, people will start to think that anything and everything cheap will be turned OFF! UGHHH! Stop this blastphamy, this argument is a lost cause, it will NEVER be accepted.

The community will NEVER accept character modifications, not to mention that they're extremely difficult to do and don't really exist yet. This is NOT A SLIPPERY SLOPE ISSUE! Removing tripping is one extremely simple function without a single downside.

And also, you seem to be one of those people who just assumes "HAXXING IS ILLEGAL/BAD" without actually knowing anything about it. Yes, hacking tools were used to create the code but it was just a process of learning about and modifying the game. Not to mention that cheating devices, essentially of the same family as the programs needed to run this code, are completely legal and SOLD IN STORES.

Tripping is not being removed because it's "dumb". Things like Snake's utilt range are "dumb", but changing it would have downsides, unpredictable outcomes, and would result in a balancing change. Removing tripping will only, only, only mean that whenever a random trip would occur, screwing a player over, it won't happen. There are ZERO downsides.

Tl;dr version: Tripping DOES influence matches greatly. Hacking isn't bad or illegal. Removing tripping is the only change that will be widely accepted.

 

[Firus]

The next person to use the slippery slope argument gets it.

Seriously.

There may be a group of people stupid enough to say "tripping was removed, let's nerf/buff characters through hacking too". HOWEVER, that small group of people will not be large enough to actually make it happen.

This thread is about tripping. If you have a problem with chaning hitstun, Pit's recovery, etc. go somewhere else to discuss it. It's not a counter to the "No Tripping" Code.

In response to you saying tripping doesn't affect matches, I'll quote myself from another thread;

Give me one good reason for tripping to be there.

No, seriously. I want a good reason for tripping. If you're against it because it's a hack, ignore the fact that it's a hack. If Sakurai had come up to you in the development process and asked you whether or not you wanted tripping, your opinion being the sole deciding factor in the process, would you say yes to tripping? There is NO GOOD REASON FOR IT. Sakurai's reasoning for such things is this;

"There is a mechanism of accidents occurring, balanced so that the game's progress and results falter easily."

He wants this stuff in there so being good in combat? Pfft, who cares. There's items, stage hazards, and tripping, so you could be the best player ever and still lose with all that stuff there. THAT'S why he wants that stuff. To transcend skill and turn it into a luck-fest, because he seems to think that a luck-fest is balanced.

If there is no good reason for tripping to be in there, it doesn't matter if it only affects matches once every blue moon (although that is a lie). Because that one time when it did screw up a match is a problem. No matter the rarity, how would you feel if you're in a tournament and that ONE MATCH that is affected by tripping is the one you're playing in, and it's in your opponent's favor? It's unfair to that person. It makes the game unbalanced for not a character, but a person, that one person who had the match affected by tripping.

If Sakurai weren't so busy trying to make it into an anti-competitive game, he would've made tripping togglable, or even better, removed it altogether.

 

[GofG]

The comparison of items to tripping is stupid.
You don't trip into a Bob-omg and fly off the stage. You trip and either do the attack pop-up or roll away.

Both are randomly generated events that effect the victim's chance of winning.

And stop with the stupid "ZoMG I TRIPPED INTO AN FSMASH :_;" thing. First of all, you shouldn't ****ing be running into Ike's FSmash anyways, so it's YOUR fault that you put yourself into the position in which the TRIP could cause you a life.
Tripping is just another thing to consider. "Should I approach, even with the possible chance of tripping into a counterattack?" should be an appropriate thing to question yourself, and to me, it helps further the community....
No Hacking Johns!

On a purist level of thinking, the answer to "Should I approach" and the answer to "Should I approach, even with the possible chance of tripping into a counterattack" is always going to be the same given the same circumstance. It would be silly to give any thought at all to the possibility of a trip when you're approaching; if you actually made decisions based on whether or not you would be hurt badly if you tripped, the game would become even more camping- and defense-based than it already is.

EDIT: Items can be turned off naturally, not through the artificial means of a HACKING TOOL. This is ridiculous!

Why is it any more ridiculous than turning items off naturally? Sakurai did not put a Tripping On/Off switch in the game because Sakurai is a bad game developer. It is within our means to PUT a Tripping On/Off switch into the game. Why does it matter that our method is a "HACKING TOOL"? This isn't a rhetorical question; I want to know why it matters to you.

The argument "it sucks, we should turn it off" is possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard. "Ice Climber chaingrab is dumb! Hack to turn it off" "Pit's Recovery is DUMB! HACK to decrease the distance he goes!" "Meta-Knight has too fast attacks! HACK TO SLOW IT DOWN!"

Zoom in to the current topic. Tripping is nothing but detrimental, and we can be rest assured that the game will do nothing but improve when tripping is taken out. If we were to try to do other things, we would first have to look at them and examine them and test them and **** like that, but we DON'T NEED TO DO THAT WITH TRIPPING because we already know that it won't do anything but good if it's taken out. Besides, if we started making changes like that, if they hurt the game, people simply wouldn't use the changes. They would be discarded, as a bad idea. If they worked, they wouldn't be discarded.

These are all the same type of thing!!!! Do you see what this does to the community? If we turn off tripping, people will start to think that anything and everything cheap will be turned OFF! UGHHH! Stop this blastphamy, this argument is a lost cause, it will NEVER be accepted.

Have you ever been to a tournament? Honest question.

 

[Falconv1.0]

The next person to use the slippery slope argument gets it.

Seriously.

^This

Seriously, I could ****ing hug you right now.


The fact some of these guys are Smash Debaters is ****ing horrible. I thought being a debater meant you had achieved some decent level of intelligence.

 

[Foxy]

I will join you two in beating the living hell out of the next "slippery-slope" accusation.

 

[bigman40]

^This

Seriously, I could ****ing hug you right now.


The fact some of these guys are Smash Debaters is ****ing horrible. I thought being a debater meant you had achieved some decent level of intelligence.

Problem is, not many people still have the "actual" intelligence to notice bull**** in front of them. They're either too stubborn to look at the debate from both sides, or they're a moron.

 

[Revven]

Problem is, not many people still have the "actual" intelligence to notice bull**** in front of them. They're either too stubborn to look at the debate from both sides, or they're a moron.

It's like they're giving the Smash Debater rank to any old random hobo that can type long *** paragraphs and sound intelligent. Really, Meta-Kirby doesn't make me comfortable about Smash Debaters...

 

[Falconv1.0]

I am laughing hard right now due to how much win is being passed around.

Eventually we'll run out of people to destroy and we'll be forced to fight amongst ourselves over trivial things.


And then we can totally debate adding histun and l canceling. Fun.

 

[GofG]

Falconv1.0, why the hell isn't there a space or an underscore in your name between the Falcon and the v1.0? Jesus christ dude makes you look like a scrub.

Edit: In all seriousness, I just did some research (i looked at the stickies in the debate hall) and they are now giving smash debater status to anyone who wants it and can put a good reason in the "reason" box when you apply for group access.

 

[Foxy]

Falconv1.0, why the hell isn't there a space or an underscore in your name between the Falcon and the v1.0? Jesus christ dude makes you look like a scrub.

You have no right to talk. What the hell is a name like "GofG" anyways? It's just stupid, like tripping. It has no benefits.

Name me one benefit or reason why it isn't stupid.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Wow. I'm glad the DH exists so I can escape from you thick-skulled fools.

You cannot ignore the "slippery slope" argument. This is just as valid of something that can cause a slippery slope as anything else.

Also, all of the real-world examples are grossly exaggerated.

 

[Foxy]

wow. I'm Glad The Dh Exists So I Can Escape From You Thick-skulled Fools.

You Cannot Ignore The "slippery Slope" Argument. This Is Just As Valid Of Something That Can Cause A Slippery Slope As Anything Else.

Also, All Of The Real-world Examples Are Grossly Exaggerated.

Dear God Hes Right

Jesus Christ

 

[GofG]

Wow. I'm glad the DH exists so I can escape from you thick-skulled fools.

You cannot ignore the "slippery slope" argument. This is just as valid of something that can cause a slippery slope as anything else.

Also, all of the real-world examples are grossly exaggerated.

We can ignore it for the following reason: If we ever do something wrong and stupid like wildly adjusting the global hitstun, IT WON'T WORK OUT WELL, THERE WILL BE PROBLEMS, THERE WILL BE BUGS, AND IT WILL BE IMMEDIATELY OBVIOUS THAT IT DOESN'T WORK.

Which of the real-world examples are grossly exaggerated?


Now playing: Alesana - Sweetheart, You Are Sadly Mistaken

 

[Firus]

You know, part of the problem here is that a bunch of people have been saying that they'd be for it if it were there already, but they think hacking is wrong and as such aren't going to do it.

The problem here is that so many people look down upon hacking, simply because it's hacking. But not all hacking is cheating. People will argue that removing tripping is cheating, it's just a bunch of idiots whining because they don't want to have to overcome tripping, but it's hardly true. The same argument could be made for items, and in fact, has -- so why is it that items could be banned and tripping cannot? Because removing either is not cheating. Sakurai didn't intend for us to play without tripping; as GofG said, that's because he's a bad game developer. He made a mistake. What's wrong with correcting this mistake? Let's face it, due to a combination of the initial purpose of codes being to cheat, being invincible or having infinite ammo, and because game companies are so against hacking, people now think poorly of hacking. Hacking not only takes skill but it can really fix issues in the game; small issues, anyways. With one code, I'm able to use custom pieces in Stage Builder which I never used before. I can perfect my stages which were half-completed due to a ridiculous limit of pieces. I can play on stages like Target Test and Homerun Contest -- and given enough time, possibly on SSE stages like Tabuu's stage.

The game developer isn't always right. And if they made an obvious mistake, you shouldn't shy away from fixing it just because it's hacking (unless you're afraid to lose your warranty; but if you've had your Wii for a while now it's probably already expired).

 

[Revven]

Edit: In all seriousness, I just did some research (i looked at the stickies in the debate hall) and they are now giving smash debater status to anyone who wants it and can put a good reason in the "reason" box when you apply for group access.

Y-Y-Y-You're kiddng me, r-r-riight? That's... just as bad as handing it out to a hobo down the street. Any old new member could come there, sound intelligent, and put their reason in and they'd be accepted.... My God, what are they thinking?

 

[da K.I.D.]

i still dont know...

does this no tripping code include moves that make ppl trip, like tinks dash attack, and MK down tilt, because i actually really enjoy that point in this game, because it involves using your eyes to catch when you make your opponent trip, and choosing the correct followup manuever, that is the only thing involved in tripping that makes the game deeeper

 

[GofG]

Y-Y-Y-You're kiddng me, r-r-riight? That's... just as bad as handing it out to a hobo down the street. Any old new member could come there, sound intelligent, and put their reason in and they'd be accepted.... My God, what are they thinking?

u're kiddng me, r-r-riight? That's... just as bad as handing it out to a hobo down the street. Any old new member could come there, sound intelligent, and

ad as handing it out to a hobo down the street. Any old new member could come there

he street. Any old new member could come

old new

You sound like a perfect candidate for the Debate Hall.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

@Firus: The reason turning items off is different from turning tripping off is because tripping was meant to be kept in the game. If Sakurai wanted people to have items in matches, the option to turn them off wouldn't be there.

Also, it is unfair to expect everyone who wants to participate in a tournament to hack their wii.

 

[GofG]

i still dont know...

does this no tripping code include moves that make ppl trip, like tinks dash attack, and MK down tilt, because i actually really enjoy that point in this game, because it involves using your eyes to catch when you make your opponent trip, and choosing the correct followup manuever, that is the only thing involved in tripping that makes the game deeeper

Read the thread before you post, please. No, the tripping code does not stop tripping caused by attacks.

@Tim

SAKURAI WAS AND IS WRONG. HE IS A BAD GAME DEVELOPER FOR COMPETITIVE GAMEPLAY. HE DID NOT HAVE COMPETITIVE GAMEPLAY IN MIND WHEN HE MADE BRAWL. HE HAS SAID OVER AND OVER THAT HE DID NOT NECESSARILY WANT THE BETTER PLAYER TO WIN. IF YOU BRING UP WHAT SAKURAI "WANTED" ON MORE TIME I WILL AAAUAUAUUUGUGUGHGHHH

I don't watch sports much and I don't find them particularly exciting.
Whichever player or team wins, I always end up thinking "well done,
everyone!" I'm not really cheering for or supporting any one team. If
there was something like the World Cup going on, I'd be inclined to
cheer for Japan and would be excited, but if the opponent was putting
his heart into it, I'd feel that both were the same.

The game I worked on, Smash Bros.,
is a fighting game, but keeping in mind such reasoning, I set out to
make sure the game did not over-emphasize the notions of victory and
defeat. I won't go into too much detail, but the game was built so that
if a player is strong in combat, just doing the same thing over and
over again won't guarantee they'll always win over their opponents.
There is a mechanism of accidents occurring, balanced so that the
game's progress and results falter easily. Whether you win or lose, you
enjoy a hearty laugh, and move on to the next round. I think this makes
quite a good game.

EVERYONE WINS

You talk about how Sakurai didn't necessarily want us to use items. Sakurai didn't want us to play this game competitively, so as long as we are talking about making the game evolve competitively, we can safely ignore most of anything Sakurai-related unless we're making fun of him.

 

[Revven]

You sound like a perfect candidate for the Debate Hall.

lulz. I see what you did thar.

i still dont know...

does this no tripping code include moves that make ppl trip, like tinks dash attack, and MK down tilt, because i actually really enjoy that point in this game, because it involves using your eyes to catch when you make your opponent trip, and choosing the correct followup manuever, that is the only thing involved in tripping that makes the game deeeper

*Facepalm x100*

For the umpteenth time, this does not get rid of trip inducing moves or items (i.e bananas). ONLY random tripping (dash induced tripping).

Do people even read all the pages of a thread before posting? Or, much less, some of it?

 

[da K.I.D.]

im sorry, im not going to read 20 pages of back and forth when i can just ask

 

[GofG]

im sorry, im not going to read 20 pages of back and forth when i can just ask

You're in the wrong thread anyway. The first post of the thread entitled "No-Trip Code found!" has the answer you're looking for. This thread is for discussion of whether or not the code should be a tournament standard.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

@Firus: The reason turning items off is different from turning tripping off is because tripping was meant to be kept in the game. If Sakurai wanted people to have items in matches, the option to turn them off wouldn't be there.

Also, it is unfair to expect everyone who wants to participate in a tournament to hack their wii.

again,it wont be an expectation,but a choice,so someones wii wont have no-trip on it,no ones really gonna pay attention to it anyway

 

[ADHD]

You guys are all stupid. Sakurai put a no tripping code in, its so perfect. Pick metaknight, and press B to move across the stage, you will NEVER trip.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i read parts of that thread too but when i was there they didnt know enough about it to answer that question

but on topic, theres really no reason not to take tripping out other other than ppl thinking hacking is somekind of breach of morality

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Even if Sakurai didn't want the game to be competitive, the point still stands: The game is how it is and if you change it, it is not how it was supposed to be.

If you want to play Brawl, play it without hacks. If you want to play your hacked game, go ahead.

I like modding games, but I realize that it would never be accepted as a standard replacement to the original.

 

[da K.I.D.]

You guys are all stupid. Sakurai put a no tripping code in, its so perfect. Pick metaknight, and press B to move across the stage, you will NEVER trip.

i might sig this, its so good

 

[Foxy]

Even if Sakurai didn't want the game to be competitive, the point still stands: The game is how it is and if you change it, it is not how it was supposed to be.

If you want to play Brawl, play it without hacks. If you want to play your hacked game, go ahead.

I like modding games, but I realize that it would never be accepted as a standard replacement to the original.

You're absolutely right.

Even the slightest outside influence on Brawl, such as removing tripping, changes it from its original and intended form. Right now people play the original game competitively and work with what Sakurai gave them as the developer. Once something is hacked, it's not even the same game. There would have to be separate tournaments for it.

Honestly, stop trying to change Brawl to fit your own personal vision of Smash, if you yourself like playing without tripping, fine, but don't expect it to ever be an accepted standard.

 

[Deathcarter]

Also, it is unfair to expect everyone who wants to participate in a tournament to hack their wii.

There is one thing I agree with you on: no-tripping can never become a tournament standerd. The reason is primarily because it would be too difficult to enforce.

But honestly, we could only use a no-tripping wii (which could just be the TO's btw) in important matches such as finals/grand finals assuming that the option is available. The only debate left is should no-tripping be used in finals over regular (which I personally beleive no tripping will win because there is MONEY involved in the final matches.)?

But the notion that everyone will need to hack their wii's when at most, we only need 1 no tripping wii for the final sets is absurd.

 

[SketchHurricane]

EVERYONE WHO THINKS THAT REMOVING TRIPPING FOR TOURNIES IS STUPID IS IN SUPPORT OF A GAME MECHANIC THAT OFFERS NOTHING TO THE GAME AND ONLY EXISTS TO SCREW YOU OVER AT RANDOM TIMES.

The community will NEVER accept character modifications, not to mention that they're extremely difficult to do and don't really exist yet. This is NOT A SLIPPERY SLOPE ISSUE! Removing tripping is one extremely simple function without a single downside.

What they said.

How on earth did this thread sustain a 20 page argument? Are there really people still defending tripping? We should require all these people to wear a mandatory shirt at their next tourney:

"I support tripping"

I asked this question earlier of the people fearing character mods, "do you really give the community such little credit, to think character modding at tournaments would get anywhere near being an issue?" Consider me pwned. The sheer amount of ridiculous defense for tripping in this thread just murdered any credibility I thought the community had.

The one and only legitimate argument for NOT using this mod at tourneys is that it is possibly a hassle to include. Don't talk to me about balance. Don't talk to me about legality. DO talk to me about improving everyone's gaming experience.