Should "No Tripping" be a Tournament Standard?

[AlexX]

Tripping has never made or broken any of my matches. Any match where I'm winning or losing is not significantly effected by the trip. By this logic, it might as well not even exist. However, it also means that to go through such extended measures to remove it makes little sense.

Likewise, if tripping does indeed randomly screw someone over, why do people claim it does so little it might as well not even exist? If it randomly screws someone over it significantly affects the battle, and if not it doesn't. It can't go both ways.

I still agree with Yuna, despite the counters people have given to his argument. Yeah, it starts as just removing tripping, but I highly doubt people will stop there. Why not remove the microgames in Warioware? It's a starter stage without the microgames and random rewards, after all. Hitstun and gravity? Well, that would make it the Melee 2.0 everyone seems to have wanted it to be...

 

[Doggalina]

Likewise, if tripping does indeed randomly screw someone over, why do people claim it does so little it might as well not even exist? If it randomly screws someone over it significantly affects the battle, and if not it doesn't. It can't go both ways.

It has a low chance of occurring, but it can SIGNIFICANTLY affect gameplay. The chance of it occurring is so low that you shouldn't play differently because of it. However, it can happen at horrible times and screw you over.

It's like taking medication. There are possible serious side effects, but they are usually rare enough so they don't outweigh the benefits. However, they are still possibilities.

EDIT: Oh, and the WarioWare thing could work, but adding hitstun is BAD BAD BAD. If you do that, you can say hello to a new kind of MetaRape.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I've stated this multiple times:

We can not go changing anything that doesn't affect everyone. No stage modding, no character editing, but stuff like no tripping is great.


Anyone who wants tripping is trippin' on drugs.

 

[Revven]

Tripping has never made or broken any of my matches. Any match where I'm winning or losing is not significantly effected by the trip. By this logic, it might as well not even exist. However, it also means that to go through such extended measures to remove it makes little sense.

Likewise, if tripping does indeed randomly screw someone over, why do people claim it does so little it might as well not even exist? If it randomly screws someone over it significantly affects the battle, and if not it doesn't. It can't go both ways.

I still agree with Yuna, despite the counters people have given to his argument. Yeah, it starts as just removing tripping, but I highly doubt people will stop there. Why not remove the microgames in Warioware? It's a starter stage without the microgames and random rewards, after all. Hitstun and gravity? Well, that would make it the Melee 2.0 everyone seems to have wanted it to be...

But, here's the thing, if it doesn't affect you and you don't remove it, it still can and why keep such a useless mechanic in the game if it does more harm than good and you can't use it or control when it happens? The point to removing it is to remove the randomness of it happening that throws people off for a few seconds and MAY get them hit (MAY, it depends how quick they are to react). If you haven't had any trouble with tripping, great, but there's a great deal of people who have and personally, this would be a good thing to use for a finals match in tourneys.

As for the slippery slopes argument, it's kind of a moot point because there's only so few people that can hack anyway and have the knowledge to especially to make character balance happen and work well. Trust me, if move set swapping in Melee still had bugs when it was finally 100% perfect then balancing a character roster to fit what you want will be even harder and nothing one man can do.

Besides, I've heard as is that the SBR has been fiddling around with hacking Brawl for maybe a few weeks to a month now and trying to mess with hit stun and what not. If the SBR are already trying something with hacking... then let's just see what happens. Just removing tripping won't lead to the next thing because removing tripping is super easy where as changing hit stun is not as easy as it sounds.

 

[napZzz]

I'd keep tripping. I use it with some of the characters who have moves that trip to do other things.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I'd keep tripping. I use it with some of the characters who have moves that trip to do other things.

...you have no idea what we are talking about. We're talking about taking out the random tripping, keep up slow one.

And please tell me no one is going to mention editing stages and single characters again, or I will explode.

 

[Al_Di_Medola]

@ -NaPPy: the no tripping code doesnt stop moves that trip.
like ness' Dtilt will still trip you, and Diddys Nanerz will still too.

 

[Revven]

Nevermind lulz.

 

[metaXzero]

I'd keep tripping. I use it with some of the characters who have moves that trip to do other things.

Taking out run-induced tripping DOES NOT effect attack induced tripping.

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

If it can be done, I don't see why not. It can't possibly make things worse can it?

 

[ArcPoint]

I think that'd be great to have no dash-induced tripping in tournament play, that random element simply would not be there. In competitive play, the less randomness, the better...

 

[Conclusively]

Yes, god. Yes. If not on every single Wii, at least for the one used for Finals. Who'd want to trip into a Marth Tippered F-Smash that's fully charged when Marth is at 150% and you're at 80%, losing the match. It wouldn't take that long to put in every Wii either, just install it before the tournament starts.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Tripping should go

Likewise, if tripping does indeed randomly screw someone over, why do people claim it does so little it might as well not even exist? If it randomly screws someone over it significantly affects the battle, and if not it doesn't. It can't go both ways.

This is why I base my point not on the fact of insignificance, but the fact of negative significance, if any. The only possible defense for tripping are "balance" issues that others have brought up. The problem is, no matter what kind of effect tripping has on other aspects of the game, tripping in and of itself is still detrimental. You should not use a negative aspect to balance another negative aspect.

I'll take the chaingrab argument, for instance. If tripping didn't exist, and you were thinking of some ways to nerf a characters chaingrab, you would most definitely not introduce an element that effects all characters in the game negatively (tripping) in order to fix the few chaingrabs. You're "breaking" all characters in order to fix a few in that example.

In summary, all arguments for keeping tripping are flawed by nature since tripping is intrinsically negative to the game.

Slippery Slope
I really have a problem with this argument, because it basically assumes the community knows no restraint. Do people seriously think the smash community is so immature that we would even approach a gamebreaking extreme with this? If something as blantantly obvious as tripping is still getting support, then there's no way we're gonna see any progress with true game-altering changes anyway. Any competent gamer knows that changing a global will have drastic effects on the gameplay. And only competent gamers become the significant TO's. We're not in the hands of a 5 year old here, people! We can takes matters into our own hands. The only reason console games like brawl aren't constantly patched like PC games is simply because it's a hassle, and nothing more.

 

[AlexX]

It has a low chance of occurring, but it can SIGNIFICANTLY affect gameplay. The chance of it occurring is so low that you shouldn't play differently because of it. However, it can happen at horrible times and screw you over.

People say that, but tripping has never significantly affected any of my battles. Ones I'm losing or winning end exactly the same as if tripping had not occured.

It's like taking medication. There are possible serious side effects, but they are usually rare enough so they don't outweigh the benefits. However, they are still possibilities.

But don't medicines sometimes run the risk of dependancy? ;]

The thing is that tripping causes johning more often than it actually affects the match. Say I'm losing 2 stocks to 1 to a good MK. I trip and MK d-smashes me and I die. Is that any different from me losing the match from a few more aerials and then a shuttle loopfrom MK instead? The answer is no, because it's still a loss for me either way.

EDIT: Oh, and the WarioWare thing could work, but adding hitstun is BAD BAD BAD. If you do that, you can say hello to a new kind of MetaRape.

The Warioware thing is proof they easily could keep going, since most would like more starter stages. Likewise, most already say MK is ban-worthy since people in the tier discussion topic constantly insist that even a good Snake stands no chance against a highly skilled MK, so adding hitstun will just theoredically make it into Melee with a single god-tier character that can easily be removed from the equasion.

Personally, I think that people just want tripping gone because it's annoying. Forcing people to mod their game in order to play competatively is something I'd rather not see encouraged.

EDIT:

The problem is, no matter what kind of effect tripping has on other aspects of the game, tripping in and of itself is still detrimental.

I've avoided getting hit by some attacks thanks to tripping as often as tripping has made me vulnerable to attacks. Tripping works both ways. I'm not going to argue it fixes any sort of gameplay imbalance, because despite how people act, tripping can just as easily help as it can damage.

I really have a problem with this argument, because it basically assumes the community knows no restraint. Do people seriously think the smash community is so immature that we would even approach a gamebreaking extreme with this?

To be perfectly blunt? Yes.

With everyone here complaining about how much they hate brawl, do you think they'd turn down the chance to turn it into the game they were originally hoping for? If they could do it right now, I garuntee you they'd turn it into Melee 2.0.

 

[Pikaville]

I think it should definitly be out.Why not take out more random chance if you can?

If something random like this can be taken out and isin't,you might as well put smash balls on too.

ChromePirate your sig is great BTW.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Alex, when you talk about MK being God, you have no ****ing idea what the hell you are talking about. Last time I checked, M2K stated Snake counters MK, I think we can take his word on that ****. And trust me, thinking MK has no match ups is insane, and the hitstun wont make him better, he doesn't have the speed to do epic combos with more hitstun.


Sketch hit the nail on the ****ing head.

 

[Vilt]

Hmm...tripping....and the removal of it. Sounds good. Could be bad. Gonna miss all the good times that where tripping made a funny.

Tripping for me has never been a issue. It has gotten to me sometimes when I fall for a smash attack and die but we laugh about it. I say Mod your game if you want. Up to you. I know I'm not modding out tripping. It's just too funny.

Nothing better then cursing Sakurai for breaking your girlfriends leg bacause she tripped. XD

 

[Eaode]

Snake counters Snake.

QFT

10trips

 

[AlexX]

Alex, when you talk about MK being God, you have no ****ing idea what the hell you are talking about.

Complain to the people in the tier discussion. Whenever I try to argue that MK is top tier with Snake, Dedede, Falco, and co. and not god tier, I get flamed out.

Last time I checked, M2K stated Snake counters Snake, I think we can take his word on that ****.

Again, the information was taken from the tier discussion thread. I don't agree, but I've never faced a famous MK player and always get flamed out while being told I'm wrong when I try to claim he's not absurdly broken in said thread.

And trust me, thinking MK has no match ups is insane, and the hitstun wont make him better, he doesn't have the speed to do epic combos with more hitstun.

Then why did people respond to the hitstun argument with the complaint that MK would then become broken?

 

[Falconv1.0]

QFT

10trips

Sometimes I wish I could go back in time and punch myself in the back of the head.


Alexx, someone already pwned the argument MK would be God, and there are a lot of ****ing morons in the tier list discussion.


It's not my fault if people are ****ing stupid.

 

[PrinceMarthX]

Somewhere Sakurai is crying now.

 

[PK-ow!]

EDIT:
I've avoided getting hit by some attacks thanks to tripping as often as tripping has made me vulnerable to attacks. Tripping works both ways. I'm not going to argue it fixes any sort of gameplay imbalance, because despite how people act, tripping can just as easily help as it can damage.

You completely misunderstood him.

If it can be done, I don't see why not. It can't possibly make things worse can it?

This.

 

[metaXzero]

AlexX. Being saved by tripping is just as detrimental to competitive play as tripping into attacks BTW.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

I saw a Grand Finals teams match a short time ago in which a kirby and a snake were down to fighting each other at high percents on Halberd on their last stock each. Snake had laid a C4 on the platform, and Kirby dashed at him. He tripped, and Snake detonated the C4 and exploded Kirby into the stratosphere.

Can anyone find that game?

I don't care if it's 'rare'. That **** should NEVER happen.

 

[-Linko-]

 

[AlexX]

AlexX. Being saved by tripping is just as detrimental to competitive play as tripping into attacks BTW.

I already stated that tripping has never significantly impacted my battles. Assuming the enemy is nearby when it happens, saving me just makes the battle last slightly longer and hurting me just makes it last slightly shorter. If I'm winning I still win and if I'm losing I still lose either way, with tripping not contributing significantly to either, which is what matters.

Alexx, someone already pwned the argument MK would be God, and there are a lot of ****ing morons in the tier list discussion.

Then could you please direct me to where that was said? Either I missed it or never saw it and I'm sick of people johnning about how unbeatable MK is (and my opinions/experience means nothing since I've neither won any big tournaments and nor have I played any good MKs).

 

[Falconv1.0]

I saw a Grand Finals teams match a short time ago in which a kirby and a snake were down to fighting each other at high percents on Halberd on their last stock each. Snake had laid a C4 on the platform, and Kirby dashed at him. He tripped, and Snake detonated the C4 and exploded Kirby into the stratosphere.

Can anyone find that game?

I don't care if it's 'rare'. That **** should NEVER happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amq0KhRleDQ

^This.

Seriously, anyone who supports tripping is going to burn in hell. It's a terrible ****ing thing that was prolly created while the dev team was high.

 

[Vilt]

That is the greatest thing I have ever seen. XD

Edit:
The video and the shirt.
That was lucky as hell. Btw tripping didn't kill him. The footstool did.

 

[metaXzero]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amq0KhRleDQ

^This.

Seriously, anyone who supports tripping is going to burn in hell. It's a terrible ****ing thing that was prolly created while the dev team was high.

>_< Not a pretty sight. What was the argument for keeping tripping again?

 

[theONEjanitor]

Tripping has never made or broken any of my matches. Any match where I'm winning or losing is not significantly effected by the trip. By this logic, it might as well not even exist. However, it also means that to go through such extended measures to remove it makes little sense.

Likewise, if tripping does indeed randomly screw someone over, why do people claim it does so little it might as well not even exist? If it randomly screws someone over it significantly affects the battle, and if not it doesn't. It can't go both ways.

It does little, but the very fact that you could POSSIBLY lose a match OR a stock to tripping (which happens often enough, i've been to nearly a dozen brawl tournaments and seen about 5 matches lost to tripping, and maybe like twenty stock lost); added on to the fact that removing tripping has no negative side effect to the game. It makes no sense whatsoever to leave it in.

Saying, 'OMGZ IT DON'T UZULLY DO NOFFIN SO WHY TAYK IT OWT LOL!11"
its a ****ing stupid argument, to be blunt.
if it could POSSIBLY cost you the match, even if it's one in a billion, it still needs to be taken out if taking it out has no other side affects.

If you had a thumbtack in the corner of your room, would you pick it up or leave it there. You're probably not going to step on it most of the time since its in the corner, but you're not going to just leave it there. It serves no positive purpose whatsoever, it ONLY has negative consequences, even if they are rare.

I still agree with Yuna, despite the counters people have given to his argument. Yeah, it starts as just removing tripping, but I highly doubt people will stop there. Why not remove the microgames in Warioware? It's a starter stage without the microgames and random rewards, after all. Hitstun and gravity? Well, that would make it the Melee 2.0 everyone seems to have wanted it to be...

If you could play on the neutral part of wario ware permanently, that would be a great hack for tournament play. that doesn't adversely affect competitive play in any way.

and lol @ the smash community being "immature". methinks your "holier than thou" attitude is ten times as immature. Grow up and start trying to listen to what other people have to say.

And we've already discussed why removing hitstun and things like that are not a good idea, as well as why it is completely different from tripping. maybe you missed those posts. removing hitstun wouldn't make it melee 2.0 it would make it a completely broken, ********, non-competitive game.

anyway this is an unfounded slippery slope to begin with, so it's not even worth debating.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I'm pretty sure with no tripping, l canceling, and hitstun, Brawl would be more like SSB64, not Melee, since I'm certain it would be broken in an awesome way.

Well, at least Inui said so last time we chatted. "Brawl would be broken with combos".

 

[SwastikaPyle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmAf50USue4

Look at 2:52. There is NO WAY that Pit should have won that match, but he did, entirely because of tripping.

 

[luminoth]

LOL at the people saying that hacking wario ware stage would be bad. It would actually be a very nice stage to play if it wasn't for the ****ing mini games and the bonuses that give people invincibility. Playing in a otherwise banned stage is actually something as good as removing tripping.

 

[Falconv1.0]

LOL at the people saying that hacking wario ware stage would be bad. It would actually be a very nice stage to play if it wasn't for the ****ing mini games and the bonuses that give people invincibility. Playing in a otherwise banned stage is actually something as good as removing tripping.

No, editing stages and characters is baaaaaad.

It's not hard to regulate no tripping, l canceling, and all that good stuff, but when the game itself can vary from console to console, it needs to ****ing stop.

TO's are not going to allow edited stages, for God's sakes people, think this **** out.

 

[Vilt]

Wow. That was totally the Peach's fault for moving and even so that was not due to tripping. Yeah he got the Peach's last stock but that GaW could have finished him off. That Pit played it well. And you can't say he didn't.

 

[metaXzero]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amq0KhRleDQ

^This.

Seriously, anyone who supports tripping is going to burn in hell. It's a terrible ****ing thing that was prolly created while the dev team was high.

Just showing this again. Seriously how can you defend this example of tripping ******try
.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Just showing this again. Seriously how can you defend this example of tripping ******try
.

^You cant.

BTW, that video has been burned into my head, when ever someone tells me tripping isn't that bad, I want a ****ing projector to shoot out of my eyes into their head, replaying this millions of times til they believe Sakurai is actually more evil than ****ing Hitler.

 

[4Serial]

Being saved by tripping only means "i need luck to win because i'm too stupid to shield/roll/dodge"
I seriously can't believe there are people that would defend this stupid thing.

 

[Revven]

Being saved by tripping only means "i need luck to win because i'm too stupid to shield/roll/dodge"
I seriously can't believe there are people that would defend this stupid thing.

QFT

Spoiler

10knees

 

[Vilt]

**** happenz. The point of this thread is to express and defend your opinions. My opinion is that if you don't like the game is, play another. Don't like tripping, play melee or mod your wii. There are plenty of games out there that there is some really ******** **** and still people put their soul and blood at learning the game. No matter how many infinites or stupid **** there may be. Play the game and shut your mouth.