Should Metaknight Be Banned? The Poll (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[aeghrur]

Yes rizardo, because obviously whatever you say is law and must always be right even without anytype of support behind it. >_>

 

[da K.I.D.]

please, people

no matter what you believe, PLEASE back your arguments

it will cut down massively on the flaming and general stupidity

 

[gantrain05]

so no matter what you say, all i've read is "don't ban metaknight, snake is a counter, ALL THE PROS SAY ITS TRUE" so im supposed to let MK dominate tourneys because ONE character counters him, and oh yeah because he's "fun to play" so was akuma, but he's broken just like MK so he's BANNED. one character ARGUABLY countering MK does not give a good reason to keep him around. if anything its more support of actually getting him banned. yeah of course MK is fun to play because you don't ever freakin lose to anything but other meta's and maybe snake, and then theres that 1/100 chance you lose to some random character only because your controller becomes unplugged mysteriously and your being strangled by someone elses gamecube controller wire........i say ban him already. it won't hurt anything.

 

[Anther]

qq .

 

[Ray/Boshi]

Do ya'll actually believe, MK will be banned entirely from overall "competitive" play?

I agree he's beyond the rest of the roster. But alas, I still see these "Grand finals" Matches on youtube & ect where the MetaKnight user loses, Then goes D3 just to CG a win on the 2nd round. (I dont remeber their names) Just an example.

Where i'm getting at is. No MetaKnight player is "Flawless"
Maybe ya'll arent playing the match gay enough.


Far as all that (In the highest level of competitive play, MK's next to impossible) I thwart that theory as well. He's tough, sure. He managed to get to a placing vs you in a tournament full of well knowns afterall. So of course he'l be difficult. Just play gay. Use Falco, diddy or some****.

At first I was with it, I agreed. MK should be banned. But now i'm on this other **** though. Who cares about trying to level the playing field as best you could. For the sole benefit of helping the community of whiners that john on a loss because it's a loss against a MK. And not because of it being a loss to that player behind the MK. Also, alot of people are on this, and i'll quote it to start it off.

"I plan on using MK and destroying everyone just to show how broken he actually is"
I raise this question. If this doesnt pertain to you, skip it.
Are you actually winning tourneys with this so-called broken character? How about placing well? Winning decent money perhaps? Probably not.
Because you suck at the game anyway. Just enjoy throwing weight around around on 'Evening the game out as best as possible. To help yo sucky ***.

Eliminating MetaKnight out the picture completly would do more harm then good competitively. Would mean that actual skills are thrown out the window. The skills to beat a dedicated MetaKnight only player will be gone. Because the only players left in the picture that would/could possibly win are the people that joint main the 'Gay' characters & use them the gayest as Counter picks. Which would then be one big counterpick fest the whole tournament. Since without MetaKnight around, every character has another that 70/30's them if used a certain way. Emphasizing on that one pro they have in the matchup.

This my personal opinion on the matter. So if you don't agree with it, that's fine. I'd be more then happy to debate it with you. Besides. Why do you think MetaKnight still isnt banned? Because he's beatable. If you play the round gayer then him. He'l slip up. Aint like he's a flawless Level 98 Cpu or anything.

I'm begining to lean more on the, the hell with it side. Rather then banning MK as of now. I have more trouble with Diddy's. Playing gay as hell.


To end this. Banning MK is not the answer. Learning him is.

 

[The Real Inferno]

This is what I see every time you post. I feel like I've left Smashboards and am now in a high stakes court case.

Random Sonic Main: "You mean a high STEAKS court case MIRITE?!"

anyway...

Penis Penis Penis Penis Penis

Mission Hill much?

Alot of stuff thats been said

This made me lol.

It's a long standing fact I'm neither pro- or anti- ban, this gets a few people confused as one of my tournaments was used in the Meta Knight SBR debate by Overswarm to evidence tournament variety minus MK. We did that tournament to test what it would look like ourselves, not because we're pro-ban.

Looking at the facts though, even though we have lots and lots of theorycraft from both sides, the only real evidence we have is dominance and Meta's doesn't seem to be decreasing in the slightest. I thought it might be in decline only to see apparently he's up 40+ wins to Snake's 20-something now. I personally believe that if his dominance doesn't drop from where it is now in a year or so, the competitive scene is going to be much smaller than it is now as people just leave in frustration. At the very least, we will see alot of character main shifting to anything that doesn't get absolutely destroyed by MK due to him being everywhere.

The current argument of being "The pros say Snake beats Meta, therefore he isn't unstoppable" is great and all, but could we start please -please- making it actually happen more? I would welcome the change. I'm beginning to get a little worried for the competitive scene as a whole. What I do enjoy is efforts being made by people to advance the metagame anyway. Jesiah may be anti-ban but he didn't just toss out a bunch of opinion and then leave people to wallow in the problem, he actually started a topic to -help- people with it, which is what more people should be doing in the first place. We shouldn't be sitting around telling people we beat Meta's like a bunch of elitist *****, we should be showing them how we did it, what characters we did it with, and more importantly -how to do it again-.

 

[Anther]

Just some vids of me fighting some metas and using rather systematic not entirely pikachu specific edgeguarding tricks and anti tornado techniques (such as pointing the shield so that no part of the tornado is touching hurtbox without overlapping the shield in some way.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrfExRO9h50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsGvhciLg5o


These aren't m2k but generally these are the metas that give lots of people trouble. I do the same against a meta that was placing 2nd in 50+people cali tournaments placing right behind DSF.

I'm mostly anti-ban because he's entirely beatable, and the main reason I see people losing is they start jumping into tornados when they can shield it or retreat if they feel their shield isn't enough, or just edgeguarding meta in entirely questionable ways. He's also the char I have the most fun fighting against lol. I don't really have much to argue since this message is gonna get swept away anyways. And I just like posting vids, and that's real **** right thurr XD. <3sies

 

[The Real Inferno]

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't consider tornado to be the worst thing in the world. It's a ridiculous move, but everyone knows by now how to get around it and Tornado spamming metas are certainly not the bane of the competitive scene XD

 

[Espy Rose]

Random Sonic Main: "You mean a high STEAKS court case MIRITE?!"

You sir, are indeed, without a shred of doubt in my mind, rite.

As of now, I'm back on the fence about the ban on MK. I don't mind him too much, and I can take him down from time to time. On the other hand, the community is just so much more fun with him not in the brackets.

It's either have a character everyone will resort to to win in a tournament, or don't have a character, but have a good time.

I don't know which to pick at the moment.

 

[Overswarm]

it's Either Have A Character Everyone Will Resort To To Win In A Tournament, Or Don't Have A Character, But Have A Good Time.

How Is This A Difficult Decision Omg O_o

 

[Ills]

btw, is the podcast just a .mp3 or can i find a .wma anywhere?

 

[Inui]

I'm not just talking about M2K silly, but since we're on the topic of M2K, I might as well say this.

He may not post logically. He may not make sense to you. You may THINK he just says things for his own personal reasons, but I will tell you this:

He's a really good friend of mine. I know him very well. Even if he doesn't make sense to you, he believes everything he says. He's wrong very seldomly, and when he is he admits it. He is not saying Snake beats MK because he doesn't want MK banned. He TRULY believes it. I can promise you that. You can't just disregard the reasons for someone's logic. I know him really well and I can tell you that he does not do that.

QFT

And I wasn't just talking about M2K. Lots of people know Snake beats MK...Afro, DSF, pretty much EVERYONE in NJ, Ankoku and a bunch from the midwest...I think it's like, common knowledge by now. Maybe I'm wrong about it being common knowledge. *shrugs*

I've yet to meet an NJ player that thinks Snake doesn't beat MK and I've yet to meet an NJ player that is pro-ban.

NJ is the most MK dominated state in the country.

hmm HMM HMMM

I think it's common knowledge that Snake wins outside of the pro-ban circle, Jesse.


Btw, I watched Mew2King's MK lose a match to Keitaro's Falco and Atomsk's Dedede on Saturday. It also would have lost for sure against Atomsk's Olimar if he did not die from a silly get-up attack at 0%. If NJ can find ways to beat the very best one, of course we don't want MK banned.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Are people upset and/or intimidated when they have to face MK in tournament? Just curious.

 

[Anther]

How Is This A Difficult Decision Omg O_o

I have more of a good time facing MK over the likes of Dedede, Falco, or ICs.
Just as much of a challenge facing Marths, Snakes, or whatever, without the gay associated with some of the other characters.

I guess if my character was Rob and was disadvantaged at the matchup though... =P
I'm calling you out os ;P.

 

[Sliq]

I play Bowser and would rather fight nothing than MK's in tournament than have to deal with D3 or IC's.

Therefor I strike to ban these characters because I personally feel my character is at a disadvantage vs. these characters, regardless of whether or not it is actually true.

 

[Turbo Ether]

I play Bowser and would rather fight nothing than MK's in tournament than have to deal with D3 or IC's.

Therefor I strike to ban these characters because I personally feel my character is at a disadvantage vs. these characters, regardless of whether or not it is actually true.

I agree with you and Anther. Fighting MK is far more fast paced and interesting then fighting gay characters that try to chain grab or camp all day.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Just some vids of me fighting some metas and using rather systematic not entirely pikachu specific edgeguarding tricks and anti tornado techniques (such as pointing the shield so that no part of the tornado is touching hurtbox without overlapping the shield in some way.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrfExRO9h50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsGvhciLg5o


These aren't m2k but generally these are the metas that give lots of people trouble. I do the same against a meta that was placing 2nd in 50+people cali tournaments placing right behind DSF.

I'm mostly anti-ban because he's entirely beatable, and the main reason I see people losing is they start jumping into tornados when they can shield it or retreat if they feel their shield isn't enough, or just edgeguarding meta in entirely questionable ways. He's also the char I have the most fun fighting against lol. I don't really have much to argue since this message is gonna get swept away anyways. And I just like posting vids, and that's real **** right thurr XD. <3sies

i dont like the way you go about arguing this, you give me the impression that you only think people are coming in here johning about stuff they cant beat. i feel like you go around touting the fact that you can shield and punish the tornado as some kind of end all be all to this argument.

i would also like to point out the fact that i watched both of those video and you have almost an EXACT 2 to 1 ratio for getting hit by tornadoes. you make it seem like tornado is some garbage move that nobody should have a problem getting around, because they can just shield and punish. but in those vids that i think you posted to illustrate this fact you literally got hit by tornadoes twice as much as the ones you shielded and punished...

thats not helping your argument, sure you beat the guys but does that really prove that MK isnt too good? im not so sure.

QFT



I've yet to meet an NJ player that thinks Snake doesn't beat MK and I've yet to meet an NJ player that is pro-ban.

NJ is the most MK dominated state in the country.

hmm HMM HMMM

I think it's common knowledge that Snake wins outside of the pro-ban circle, Jesse.


Btw, I watched Mew2King's MK lose a match to Keitaro's Falco and Atomsk's Dedede on Saturday. It also would have lost for sure against Atomsk's Olimar if he did not die from a silly get-up attack at 0%. If NJ can find ways to beat the very best one, of course we don't want MK banned.

i think 5 of the top 8 players in my region play MK too and astoundingly, they dont want him banned either...
that fact that people that dont want MK banned play MK doesnt prove jack. as a matter of fact it really doesnt mean anything either way

and for the record doesnt the fact that olimar died at 0 from a getup attack prove more than anything that hes really not as great as you think...?

 

[da K.I.D.]

Are people upset and/or intimidated when they have to face MK in tournament? Just curious.

intimidated: no
upset: hell yes, especially if i get beat by someone thats not better than me. not saying that they are scrubs, but if i could beat them but when i lose cause i got hit by a reverse shuttle loop at 30, i tend to get slightly peeved

 

[Turbo Ether]

intimidated: no
upset: hell yes, especially if i get beat by someone thats not better than me. not saying that they are scrubs, but if i could beat them but when i lose cause i got hit by a reverse shuttle loop at 30, i tend to get slightly peeved

You play Sonic in tournament?

 

[da K.I.D.]

You play Sonic in tournament?

against meta knight: hell no, i stopped playing that match like 3 months ago when i realised f-air to down tilt ***** everything i have
i used to like playing lucario, now i only play him because its the best thing i have against MK
i play lucario v MK, D3 and wolf v. snake and sonic v. everything else

 

[Anther]

My argument in that regards is moreso the fact that MK's damage output ends up being a lot less, and I'm not entirely arguing tornado being garbage since it does tend to win matches. Maybe MK is too good x.x.

 

[Turbo Ether]

against meta knight: hell no
i used to like playing lucario, now i only play him because its the best thing i have against MK
i play lucario v MK, D3 and wolf v. snake and sonic v. everything else

Lucario is basically at a 40/60 disadvantage vs MK, right? That's close enough that player skill is the most important factor, not character difference.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Lucario is basically at a 40/60 disadvantage vs MK, right? That's close enough that player skill is the most important factor, not character difference.

...says you.


but say in terms of player skill im better by a 47-53 ratio

using these arbitrary figures... metaknight still wins...

 

[Justblaze647]

MK always wins...

 

[salaboB]

Lucario is basically at a 40/60 disadvantage vs MK, right? That's close enough that player skill is the most important factor, not character difference.

55:45 is considered close enough that skill is the most important factor, 60:40 starts to get into a mix of skill and character (Hence why it's often referred to as a soft counter)

 

[AlphaZealot]

People need to make arguments specific to their regions. MK should not be banned in midwest or NY based on the evidence at hand. I think Texas would be justified, however, in removing the little ball of Knight.

 

[Turbo Ether]

I think a large-scale national tournament, with the top players in attendance would be the best way to settle this. Not, HOBO or Axis, something MLG-esque. Brawl for MLG '09?

 

[da K.I.D.]

but nobody wants to do that because people are afraid of what will happen when people travel to tourneys in other regions... I think i heard thats why canada hasnt done it yet

every one is waiting for the sbr to declare before they do it on their own...

which doesnt really sit well with me but meh...

 

[The Real Inferno]

People need to make arguments specific to their regions. MK should not be banned in midwest or NY based on the evidence at hand. I think Texas would be justified, however, in removing the little ball of Knight.

This has not only been thought of, but refuted by most regions for the following reason: "Sure we like it better this way, but when we travel we won't be able to handle MKs in other places." I believe it was Hylian who said something to that affect about HOBO12's MK ban. Affinity said much the same about the ban on MK one week at the Wichita Bi-weekly Series. For those of us who play on a wider level, we cannot go by local regions. Also, having regions where MK was banned and ones where he is not, will create isolation. M2K for example probably wouldn't travel further west to play in a tournament where he can't use his favorite character.

 

[AlphaZealot]

So, basically then, because of what happens in Texas, MK should be banned in the midwest/NY despite the fact that few MK's really perform well in those areas?

That makes sense.

 

[da K.I.D.]

yah, but m2k is a little extreme, he said that he would cancel his trip to europe if they had MK banned...

...because the only thing worthwhile in europe is smash tourneys...

 

[The Real Inferno]

So, basically then, because of what happens in Texas, MK should be banned in the midwest/NY despite the fact that few MK's really perform well in those areas?

That makes sense.

You read that entirely backwards, and Im assuming you did it on purpose for satirical purposes. It's more like, how can Texas ban MEta and then expect to compete with, say, New Jersey when they get overrun by Metas in the competition? And Visa Versa, why would New Jersey ever go to Texas if they can't use one of their favorites?

yah, but m2k is a little extreme, he said that he would cancel his trip to europe if they had MK banned...

...because the only thing worthwhile in europe is smash tourneys...

If you ignore weed this is actually true.

 

[The Real Inferno]

D-d-d-double post

 

[Overswarm]

So, basically then, because of what happens in Texas, MK should be banned in the midwest/NY despite the fact that few MK's really perform well in those areas?

That makes sense.

More like Texas is a precursor and every other community is slowly catching up with Texas in terms of MK dominance.

We predicted exactly what would happen with MK before HOBO 11, and we watched Texas become more and more MK dominated... now we see areas soft-banning MK and then people saying "lol MK doesn't win here", or areas with a high concentration of good players that simply choose NOT to play MK because they don't like him.

MK is the best choice, hands down.

Regardless, I think I'm going to end up starting a MK-banned circuit in Kentucky and find a better game there.

 

[Turbo Ether]

SFIV in Feb '09!

 

[ShadowLink84]

People need to stop make arguments specific to their regions. MK should not be banned in midwest or NY based on the evidence at hand. I think Texas would be justified, however, in removing the little ball of Knight.

We cannot simply move based upon the behavior of a specific region. Why? The ban would be a nationwide ban. A soft ban does not work with the U.S., you culture does not work in such a fashion that a soft ban would be capable.

Inui is one who does this and you have seen how poor that argument is.

Even if MK does not dominate in AN (something I doubt) the behavior of the 4 other regions are just as important.

 

[BentoBox]

SFIV in Feb '09!

What?! I thought it came out this year D':

 

[da K.I.D.]

in japan...

 

[The Real Inferno]

Several American arcades got the Japanese machine already which is awesome. The game is too good (and so are Sagat and...Zangief?! WTF?)

 

[DRaGZ]

Zangief is a beast.