Should Metaknight be Banned? **Take 2** (Post-podcast)

[adumbrodeus]

^^Well, then I have a different definition of **** matchups. When I think of **** matchups I think of 80-20s or other "unwinnable" matchups.

People really should clarify what they are talking about, or at least use more commonly used terms like "soft counter" or "slight advantage."

Of those two, soft counter is the only one with a universally accepted definition.

Slight advantage may include 55-45 or it might not, depending on the individual doing the talking.


Really, the misunderstanding is no individual's fault, but instead, a smashboards issue in general because we don't have standard terms.

 

[HeroMystic]

Except the issu with true experience is that people do not notice things in the heat fo a match.
m2k saying Snake's Dilt was longer than MK's for example.
There are also those factors such as mindgames that cannot be measured.

of course this does not mean true experience should not be accepted, however, we must admit that there are flaws to it.

I agree with this.

I actually have to disagree. Theory that is purly theory without any grounds to it cannot be accepted.

If it is supported such as MK outranging Snake's ground moves with his Dtilt, then it can be accepted, simply because there is evidence supporting the theory. (like evolution).
You have theory come up with melee every nnow and then.

I don't see what you're disagreeing with besides the Melee part, there theories come up but are quickly tested, then become either false or factual.

I'm saying theory takes place because Brawl's metagame as a whole still have a large amount of space to evolve with, so theory must come up in order for people to test.

semi ****?
Can you clarify a bit on this then?

What are these "semi-****" matchups that are so abundant on the Marth boards? Marth has a lot of very slight advantages, yes, but most of his semi-**** and **** matchups are against simply bad characters (characters who are already destroyed by other top tiers).

65:35 are pretty semi-**** to me. It's not pure **** but it causes a lot of difficulty to the other character. You do make a good point however, Dark Sonic.

Like I said in that real experience, the things we cannot measure such as mindgames come into play. That is the flaw in experience.
What would you believe? Actual frame data or experience?
if something is factual, no amount of matches will cause that fact to change.
Sonic's Fsmash still comes out on frame 17, Pit's Fsmash coemes out on frame , and Snake till causes a Sonic boom when he does a Utilt.

I'd go with both data and experience, simply because 'facts' do not win matches because no human player is perfect. However data does play a large and probably the most important part of the match-up discussion. There is no way to refute that.

That depends on what you reference to, the Marth boards tend to be more factual in their arguments.
Or at least Emblem Lord is.

They do and I applaud them for that. About every other character board however seem more like guides and they put up a match-up ratio that can quite possibly be far from the truth.

Strawmanning is when I misinterpret your argument, and then respond to it and act as if I refuted it. Not when I give you specific arguments to answer.
I was more like challenging you to answer as to why those bad matchups aren't bad as they say. You certainly must have reasons for disagreeing with them.

I don't disagree with Snake's bad match-ups because I don't keep up with him. I'm just saying that match-up ratios as of now can be (and are) easily broken in a realistic setting.

i don't believe anyone has attempted to leave their argument without support.

There has been. Just look at Ulevo's sig.

And excuse me if I'm not good at this debating stuff. My passion isn't here since I stopped caring about the MK debate awhile ago.

 

[Natch]

i've seen that same sig before by random md/va players. It seems like just an excuse that someone is "cool" by bandwagoning on making fun of inui, and I can't respect people that do that. I've been on the receiving end of bandwagoning for many years so I know exactly what it's like and it's extremely gay. It also isn't funny.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5927462#post5927462

Can't believe you're defending him. Honestly dude, I'm just an outsider looking in, but I'm surprised you let him walk all over you like that.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I don't see what you're disagreeing with besides the Melee part, there theories come up but are quickly tested, then become either false or factual.

DK has a very nasty death combo off of Fox.
As in once Fox gets grabbed, he dies, its that powerful.
in theory, landing this 4 times isn't really hard because Fox has to get close to DK if he hopes to finish him off.

I'm saying theory takes place because Brawl's metagame as a whole still have a large amount of space to evolve with, so theory must come up in order for people to test.

hmm I am a bit shaky on this but I mostly agree to it.

65:35 are pretty semi-**** to me. It's not pure **** but it causes a lot of difficulty to the other character. You do make a good point however, Dark Sonic.

okay I hought as much. The majority of Marth's matches tend to move towards 60:40 to my knowledge.

I'd go with both data and experience, simply because 'facts' do not win matches because no human player is perfect. However data does play a large and probably the most important part of the match-up discussion. There is no way to refute that.

I would ahve to say that if the data is present, experience cannot really say much because of all those factors hat come along with it.
For example ina 100:0 match, you are not suppose to win but you can because of all hose variables.

They do and I applaud them for that. About every other character board however seem more like guides and they put up a match-up ratio that can quite possibly be far from the truth.

agreed.

I don't disagree with Snake's bad match-ups because I don't keep up with him. I'm just saying that match-up ratios as of now can be (and are) easily broken in a realistic setting.

But you just agreed that the realistic setting places all those variables that cannot be measured.
Unless you mean that the theory is tested and proven to be true in such a setting.

There has been. Just look at Ulevo's sig.

Ulevo does silly things at times.

And excuse me if I'm not good at this debating stuff. My passion isn't here since I stopped caring about the MK debate awhile ago.

Same

 

[King Funk]

Ahem... When does this poll end?

 

[Backward]

DK has a very nasty death combo off of Fox.
As in once Fox gets grabbed, he dies, its that powerful.
in theory, landing this 4 times isn't really hard because Fox has to get close to DK if he hopes to finish him off.

This isn't so much about the debate. I just wanted to point out that Melee Fox had many attributes that made him extremely difficult to be grabbed (even with DK's grab range) assuming a sufficiently skilled player.

 

[Cactupuss]

Guys I found the counter to MK!

This can ONLY be done with the wiimote+nunchuck control scheme

This works with ALL characters!

First take the wiimote and nunchuck and hold them upside down in your hands.

As soon as the match starts get behind your opponent, place the nunchuck cord in front of their neck

wrap the cord around their neck and start pulling HARD

If you do this right your opponent should be unable to finish the match making you the winner!

Hope I helped

 

[viparagon]

Guys I found the counter to MK!

This can ONLY be done with the wiimote+nunchuck control scheme

This works with ALL characters!

First take the wiimote and nunchuck and hold them upside down in your hands.

As soon as the match starts get behind your opponent, place the nunchuck cord in front of their neck

wrap the cord around their neck and start pulling HARD

If you do this right your opponent should be unable to finish the match making you the winner!

Hope I helped

@_@ this needs to be tested! PLEASE SEND as many scrub MK players to nashua as soon as possible

 

[shadowdsfire]

Guys I found the counter to MK!

This can ONLY be done with the wiimote+nunchuck control scheme

This works with ALL characters!

First take the wiimote and nunchuck and hold them upside down in your hands.

As soon as the match starts get behind your opponent, place the nunchuck cord in front of their neck

wrap the cord around their neck and start pulling HARD

If you do this right your opponent should be unable to finish the match making you the winner!

Hope I helped

I've tested it with the gamecube controller but i just put the controller in his eyes... But it worked well ! Now i need to do it in tournament !!! But it will probably be ban in couple of day...

 

[XienZo]

Guys I found the counter to MK!

This can ONLY be done with the wiimote+nunchuck control scheme

This works with ALL characters!

First take the wiimote and nunchuck and hold them upside down in your hands.

As soon as the match starts get behind your opponent, place the nunchuck cord in front of their neck

wrap the cord around their neck and start pulling HARD

If you do this right your opponent should be unable to finish the match making you the winner!

Hope I helped

I accidentally fat-fingered it and I got punished.

 

[-Red-]

I don't see the arguement against the fact that if Metaknight were banned the game would be much better.

 

[Nic64]

I don't see the arguement against the fact that if Metaknight were banned the game would be much better.

because that is subjective and also pretty stupid.

 

[The Milk Monster]

Guys I found the counter to MK!

This can ONLY be done with the wiimote+nunchuck control scheme

This works with ALL characters!

First take the wiimote and nunchuck and hold them upside down in your hands.

As soon as the match starts get behind your opponent, place the nunchuck cord in front of their neck

wrap the cord around their neck and start pulling HARD

If you do this right your opponent should be unable to finish the match making you the winner!

Hope I helped

Has been confirmed to work with all controller schemes besides sideways Wiimote!

 

[-Red-]

because that is subjective and also pretty stupid.

Actually it's a fact.

 

[DZLE]

Personally, in my honest opinion, MK should not be banned.
I think its ridiculous to come to the point of wanting to ban this guy.
Personally I want to get better as a Brawl player to be able to take care of these players.
I have lots and lots of stuff to improve on to come even close, but its a big reason.
Im sure you all practice a lot to beat that guy at your local tourneys that plays MK.

Thats not the only reason I want this guy to stay.
Hell, I dont even play this guy. I never will.
I just personally think its ridiculous to come to a point to ban someone from competition play altogether.
Think of those MK players who have put hours days and weeks, possibly months into perfecting their Metagame, you ban their character and what do they have? A secondary they probably hardly played (given that MK needs no secondary)?

Banning someone like Gill in SF competitions is understandable, but really guys, you CAN beat MK. He isnt so broken that theres no hope.

Leave him in the game, and if you still want to QQ so much about it, perfect your own Metagame and play that against your MK opponents. There, even match.

Flame me all you want, if he gets banned, I wont care, one less character for me to learn to play against. If he doesnt get banned, good for the MK players.

 

[Fluke]

Has been confirmed to work with all controller schemes besides sideways Wiimote!

WOW I did it was 100% efficiency with the GC Wavebird controller.

The opponent tried to DI then Smash DI, but prevailed!

It's broken! BANN ALL CONTROLLERS!

 

[The Milk Monster]

WOW I did it was 100% efficiency with the GC Wavebird controller.

The opponent tried to DI then Smash DI, but prevailed!

It's broken! BANN ALL CONTROLLERS!

Wavebirds have more of an advance tech to them.
Once you get it behind their neck, you have to down c stick to up z, and that will launch up a mortar, then press z again and the grapple comes out, attaching itself to the mortar, and since it's your mortar it won't hurt you, and now you have a cable!

 

[-Red-]

Personally, in my honest opinion, MK should not be banned.
I think its ridiculous to come to the point of wanting to ban this guy.
Personally I want to get better as a Brawl player to be able to take care of these players.
I have lots and lots of stuff to improve on to come even close, but its a big reason.
Im sure you all practice a lot to beat that guy at your local tourneys that plays MK.

Thats not the only reason I want this guy to stay.
Hell, I dont even play this guy. I never will.
I just personally think its ridiculous to come to a point to ban someone from competition play altogether.
Think of those MK players who have put hours days and weeks, possibly months into perfecting their Metagame, you ban their character and what do they have? A secondary they probably hardly played (given that MK needs no secondary)?

Banning someone like Gill in SF competitions is understandable, but really guys, you CAN beat MK. He isnt so broken that theres no hope.

Leave him in the game, and if you still want to QQ so much about it, perfect your own Metagame and play that against your MK opponents. There, even match.

Flame me all you want, if he gets banned, I wont care, one less character for me to learn to play against. If he doesnt get banned, good for the MK players.

Funny how the best point of why he should be banned is being used by you to defend him.

I will explain why Meta knight needs to be banned to anyone who doesn't understand, and then if anyone has a valid arguement after reading this I would love to hear it ( No sarcasm, I know every arguement has two sides)


So as everyone knows Smash is played in sets, 2/3, 3/5 etc, depending on how far in.

So for this example I will be Player 1.


The first match off the set is played on a random neatral stage and both players pick their characters at the same time. So lets say I choose Marth, and my opponent chooses Game and Watch, we go random and get Battlefield. We play out the match and I end up winning,

Now my opponent tells me what stage we are going to, he says Final Destination. Then I choose my character. Heres the problem I am faced with, whatever character I choose I have a good chance of my opponent counterpicking and leaving me at a disadvantage. So I decide to choose Metaknight knowing he has doesn't really have a bad matchup with anyone. So in choosing Metaknight I am leaving myself safe from a counterpick from my opponenet.

Lets say I lose that match to whoever my opponent picked. Then I get to choose a stage first, and my opponent has to pick their character, Well if my opponent is serious about winning and wants to put himself in the best position possible then he will go through the same thought process I did, leading him to choose Metaknight.

So there we have both players choosing MK as their secondary to avoid a disadvantageous situation. Then people start to realize, "Hey! I don't know who my opponent may pick or what stage we may end up on at the start of the match, I don't wanna walk into a counter character, I better pick Metaknight to make sure I don't start at a disadvantage.

So on reality the logical character to use at the start of your match? Metaknight
As your second character? Metaknight.

If we ban Metaknight from tournement play then we are able to have a way more diverse cast of playable characters, aside from just one.

As for the arguement of the metagame progressing and that we should wait it out? Don't you realize that MK is stopping the metagame from progressing at all?

 

[DZLE]

I never really looked at it like that. And in these past moments I have been listening to the podcasts and what not.
You have a valid point. Very valid, RED.
I still cant help to feel sorry for those MK mainers, though.
I may have to rethink my whole logic on this topic.
To ban or not to ban, is the question.
The answer? Who knows. That example you gave with the tourney paints a picture well of why he should be banned.

... -shrugs-

 

[ShadowLink84]

Funny how the best point of why he should be banned is being used by you to defend him.

Its not actually a good reason to attack MK.
It can be said for many characters including Old Sagat.

I will explain why Meta knight needs to be banned to anyone who doesn't understand, and then if anyone has a valid arguement after reading this I would love to hear it ( No sarcasm, I know every arguement has two sides)

Prepare for the pwn

Ancient argument

CP green greens and choose Olimar.

Nuetral matchup.

You see,ev en though MK is the most Cp resilient, here are stages that do affect him.
They may not affect him reatly, but enough so that amtches that are pssibly disadvantaged get pushed to the neutral end.
Let us also realzie the fact that most of MK's matches are 6040 this means a very, very small advantage because your opponent can simply be more skilled, or play better and win. They aren't at a major disadvantage.

Being CP resilient isn't reason for a ban.
Overcentralizing is a reason for a ban.
When MK goes 70:30 against the majority of the cast, I'll be more inclined for him to be banned.
Or if MK starts to dominate tournaments to a much greater degree.

If we ban Metaknight from tournement play then we are able to have a way more diverse cast of playable characters, aside from just one.

Wrong.
MK doesn't hard counter a large amount of characters and he doesn't cause overcentralizing.
He doesn't break the game and he doesn't go 80:20 against everyone.
tehre really is no proof to say there will be much more diversity in the game.

As for the arguement of the metagame progressing and that we should wait it out? Don't you realize that MK is stopping the metagame from progressing at all?

Don't you realize how stupid you sound?
MK's metagame is simply advancing faster than other characters. (and that canb e argued as well).

Similar to when Snake dominated, the metagame has started revolving around MK to beat him. Considering the fact that you see other characters winning tournaments, it cannot be said MK is at all halting the metagame.

MK is the safest choice, but not the best one in every situation.

 

[-Red-]

The fact that Metaknight does not need a secondary I think matters alot, it just proves my point even further that has no bad matchups and it always the right choice. Need I remind you that there WAS some sort of restriction on Old Sagat in Japan?

Ancient argument? Does that make it any less valid? Didn't think so....

Metaknight doesn't need to hard counter any other character to be broken, the fact that he is countered by no one and is always the best choice when going in a match blind is more then enough reason to ban him.

I sound stupid? Oh so your saying that when Metaknight is the right choice 99% of the time that other characters metagame can progress enough to catch up? For some reason that really does not make sense to me.

Snake never dominated anywhere near the point that Metaknight currently is and will continue to do so.

I think the fact that you pulled out a specific character on a specific stage and still classified it as neutral does wonders for my argument.

MK is always the right choice when blind, and even when you know what you are facing he is still the right choice more often then not.

 

[ExCeL 52]

Off With Mks Head!!!

 

[Inui]

The fact that Metaknight does not need a secondary I think matters alot, it just proves my point even further that has no bad matchups and it always the right choice.

No secondary is required to win a large tournament with Snake, Olimar, Diddy Kong, Falco, Dedede, Game and Watch, or Marth.

 

[-Red-]

No secondary is required to win a large tournament with Snake, Olimar, Diddy Kong, Falco, Dedede, Game and Watch, or Marth.

I main Snake and your right, I never want to switch to Game and Watch when I am playing someone with a very good Dedede/Falco. Good point bro.

 

[Grunt]

No secondary is required to win a large tournament with Snake, Olimar, Diddy Kong, Falco, Dedede, Game and Watch, or Marth.

I was under the impression Marth got wrecked by MK and camping in general.
Tell me if I'm wrong.

I main Snake and your right, I never want to switch to Game and Watch when I am playing someone with a very good Dedede/Falco. Good point bro.

I wouldn't, lol.

 

[Steel]

you're pretty wrong.

MK match up is 65:35, maybe 60:40. I don't think that means Marth gets "wrecked".

marth generally has no problem with projectiles.

 

[-Red-]

you're pretty wrong.

MK match up is 65:35, maybe 60:40. I don't think that means Marth gets "wrecked".

marth generally has no problem with projectiles.

Marth does have a really really hard time vs Metaknight, and camping is a good strategy vs Marth. So he's not wrong.


Why not Grunt? I guess not G&W in particular but why play a bad matchup when you dont have to?

 

[Inui]

I main Snake and your right, I never want to switch to Game and Watch when I am playing someone with a very good Dedede/Falco. Good point bro.

Snake beats Falco. Just blow yourself up twice and you can't die. Without the CG to spike, Falco can't kill you until extremely high damage. Snake outranges and outprioritizes him both on the ground and in the air, making the actual fight no contest.

Snake only loses extremely slightly to Dedede. Just ban FD and abuse grenades and platforms to make the match-up more event. Dedede sucks against good camping.

I think people are under the impression that you need to have the advantage to win. Winning a 40/60 match-up isn't that hard to do. I beat Snakes with MK and I've won against MK, Snake, and Dedede with Marth many times.

I was under the impression Marth got wrecked by MK and camping in general.
Tell me if I'm wrong.

Myself in the past, Roy_R, NEO, and Azen have proven multiple times that Marth is viable to win big tournaments and has no match-ups worse than 40/60.

 

[shaSLAM]

soooooooo does any of this ean we're gonna ban him? :]
i personally think itd improve moral and the community as a whole.

and what would the scrubby MK mains do? lolololololol
my number one reason would be for the laugh id get seeing them try to main a charecter theyd have to PLAY with

 

[Grunt]

Myself in the past, Roy_R, NEO, and Azen have proven multiple times that Marth is viable to win big tournaments and has no match-ups worse than 40/60.

Well I never insisted he wasn't tourney viable, but I was wrong about MK i suppose.

my number one reason would be for the laugh id get seeing them try to main a charecter theyd have to PLAY with

wow.
hahahaha
just, wow.

 

[ShadowLink84]

The fact that Metaknight does not need a secondary I think matters alot, it just proves my point even further that has no bad matchups and it always the right choice. Need I remind you that there WAS some sort of restriction on Old Sagat in Japan?

What restriction? he was soft banned, which is basically saying "Go ahead you can use him. The top players don't use him is all."
there is no restriction period.

He isn't banned in the U.S. which is much more relevant because that is the culture we are dealing with right now.

Ancient argument? Does that make it any less valid? Didn't think so....

It isn't valid though. Again, in melee, marth was a CP resilient character. Ban Marth then?
(and mind you Marth was rather broken)

Metaknight doesn't need to hard counter any other character to be broken, the fact that he is countered by no one and is always the best choice when going in a match blind is more then enough reason to ban him.

The best choice? No. he is the SAFEST choice. Not the best.
Certainly not the best choice for going into a CP match.
I'd actually prefer going Olimar in a blind match. Just because everyone will expect MK.
Surprise surprise surprise!

I sound stupid? Oh so your saying that when Metaknight is the right choice 99% of the time that other characters metagame can progress enough to catch up? For some reason that really does not make sense to me.

Sheik in melee had a metagame that advanced beyond others in the early years. bamn Sheik?
MK is a character wit a low learning curve, so what? it doesn't change the fact that if there is a method of dealin with him, it WILL be found. Inf act there are methods with dealing with him already. All of which involve playing smart.

Snake never dominated anywhere near the point that Metaknight currently is and will continue to do so.

Snake had the highest dominance rate to date.
37% during the early days.
MKs highest is roughly 30%

Let alone that they just don't dominate enough.

I think the fact that you pulled out a specific character on a specific stage and still classified it as neutral does wonders for my argument.

Actually it destroys it. you are stating that MK ALWAYS has an advantage. The fact that there is an exception to this blows it to hell.
nuetral matchups are not broken by the way.
and 60:40 matchups are very winnable.

MK is always the right choice when blind, and even when you know what you are facing he is still the right choice more often then not.

the right choice? no. The SAFEST choice? yes.

i can think of other characters that would be better for a blind pick, just because of the fact that they hit harder more often than MK does 9even though overall they have worse matchups).

Snake beats Falco. Just blow yourself up twice and you can't die. Without the CG to spike, Falco can't kill you until extremely high damage. Snake outranges and outprioritizes him both on the ground and in the air, making the actual fight no contest.

Snake only loses extremely slightly to Dedede. Just ban FD and abuse grenades and platforms to make the match-up more event. Dedede sucks against good camping.

I think people are under the impression that you need to have the advantage to win. Winning a 40/60 match-up isn't that hard to do. I beat Snakes with MK and I've won against MK, Snake, and Dedede with Marth many times.

Don't joke Inui.
He has an aerial game thats worse than Falco. o into the air to fight falco is just begging for you to get *****.
Its great to outprioritize or outrange someone in the air, but so does Ike and well, you see what I mean.
And considering his projectiles are better in the air than Snake's, I don't think it would very wise to be in the air against him.

i would love to see your Snake or ally's take on keitaro's, SK92's or Sethlons Falco head to head in an aerial battle.

 

[Grunt]

Why not Grunt? I guess not G&W in particular but why play a bad matchup when you dont have to?

I usually try and play smarter to win. there is a reason Snake is good, so I'm not completely handicapped by a bad matchup.

 

[XienZo]

No secondary is required to win a large tournament with Snake, Olimar, Diddy Kong, Falco, Dedede, Game and Watch, or Marth.

What?! You should know that even perfect camping gets owned by the likes of Peach and ROB...

 

[NinjaLink]

No secondary is required to win a large tournament with Snake, Olimar, Diddy Kong, Falco, Dedede, Game and Watch, or Marth.

Did he just said all those characters..............really......

 

[The Milk Monster]

He said Olimar.
lol.

 

[Grunt]

If perfect anything gets owned then it's not perfect now is it?

 

[Swordplay]

Snake beats Falco. Just blow yourself up twice and you can't die. Without the CG to spike, Falco can't kill you until extremely high damage. Snake outranges and outprioritizes him both on the ground and in the air, making the actual fight no contest.

This brings me back. We had a huge discussion about blowing yourself up against falco on the Link boards. It was a great discussion.

 

[Inui]

Don't joke Inui.
He has an aerial game thats worse than Falco. o into the air to fight falco is just begging for you to get *****.
Its great to outprioritize or outrange someone in the air, but so does Ike and well, you see what I mean.
And considering his projectiles are better in the air than Snake's, I don't think it would very wise to be in the air against him.

i would love to see your Snake or ally's take on keitaro's, SK92's or Sethlons Falco head to head in an aerial battle.

I just got done discussing the match-up with teh_spamerer. He is in complete agreement with me.

Keitaro is an indication of Falco's potential? What?

You don't know what you're talking about. Snake beats Falco on the ground and in the air with fast, huge, high priority moves. If Snake isn't gimped, he outlives Falco by almost double the damage.

Did he just said all those characters..............really......

Those are all amazing characters that counter at least half of the top tier and all have no matches worse then 40/60. They can win tournaments. I don't understand why you underrate characters like Diddy so much when they are clearly top tier and most top players are in agreement on the matter.

People thinking Olimar isn't top tier is stupid. He forces approaches but can't be safely approached most of the time. That's incredibly gay. You guys need to see a real good Olimar like Atomsk make top players look like garbage with his Olimar.

 

[XienZo]

People thinking Olimar isn't top tier is stupid. He forces approaches but can't be safely approached most of the time. That's incredibly gay. You guys need to see a real good Olimar like Atomsk make top players look like garbage with his Olimar.

Olimar is top tier and all, but please don't say he can make it without secondaries... you make it look like we're exaggerating about Olimar in general...

 

[Inui]

Olimar is top tier and all, but please don't say he can make it without secondaries... you make it look like we're exaggerating about Olimar in general...

I am completely convinced that secondaries are not necessary. He loses nothing worse than 40/60 and has the tools to beat any character if you are good enough.

I'm also beginning to think that ZSS, Kirby, Lucario, and DK can win tournaments without secondaries.

Too many characters are underrated and MK is overrated.

MK is only easy to learn because he's good and because his metagame has been developed massively by top players like Mew2King, Omni, and Forte. The other characters need top players to start developing them to the same degree.