Lecture?
By no means. I corrected you and explained why.
mmk
Fair enough. I'm mostly irritated, so that's the cause of the accusation. I'll try not to be rash with my words.
I am calling you on this actually.
MK's Dtilt is at most 15 frames long. At the end of 15 frames he can perfrom another Dtilt at frame 18.
Dropping the shield takes 4 frames and the next move that can outrange MK's Dtilt and has the highest speed is too slow to punish MK.
People tried the same argument saying that Snake can punish MK with an Ftilt and this was proven false.
A powershield would allow one to punish MK but that can be difficult.
you can angel your shield but again why bother? you can't punish him really well.
Nor will he be predictable.
Um... I was referring to Tornado.
DTilt gets beaten by short hop approaches, as well as timed DTilts from Marth. It also has 1 Frame of Shield Stun, so if Meta Knight didn't space it perfectly, or if the character did a sliding shield from a run, or has long range, Meta Knight has about 10 Frames where he's helpless. Just for your information.
But yeah, angling the Shield does nothing for DTilt that I'm aware of.
That supports what I said.
Again MK won't give you the chance to break his tornado.
Characters like Snake and marth he seldom uses it against.
Again just because you can break it means little if he won't present the oppurtunity to do so.
Again I refer to the hearsay argument. I would use the knowledge I composed in my thread to my advantage on a regular basis with Marth. I rarely gave opportunity for Tornados against KingAce, MDK, or Anth0ny during the last set of tournament friendlies I have. I also do this very frequently with Dedede, since he has a hard time with the Tornado due to his size.
It's really not that impractical.
knowledge is not necessarily the result of experience.
A priori knowledge so to speak.
Tomato, tomato. You understand where I was coming from. We both did.
For example Math. Much of it is not the result of experience.
He mentioned it in the post on the last page.
I noticed now, and I stand corrected.
They are quick but the main issue is how long they endure, the cooldown time.
Among those the bair is the best of them.
Fox cannot force an opening but once he has one he punishes DDD hard.
Its relevant
I was mainly referring to the overall speed of the moves, both start up and cool down. I do agree Fox can punish King Dedede hard if given the chance, but I don't see this match up being in Fox's favour.
Never said they were allow slow. I speak generically.
Meanwhile the majority of those moves you listed tend to have high cooldown time.
Once Fox gets inside of DDD's range and starts his punishment he hits DDD really hard and makes up for the risks involved.
See above.
Not intentionally but I have noticed isntances where you miss out on aprts of their arguments.
I know, it's terrible.
Which places you farther away and keeps you outside of my range.
True, but Uair has a lot of lag on it.
G&W can't duck below it.
Sio that means you'll get hit and then grabbed.
Fair enough. I don't know enough about the match up to give advice on specifics. I just know how bad Links recovery is, and how good G&W is at placing people off stage.
Not really since you ignored the rest of what was said.
you said passing under teh stage endangers her and offers no benefit. he stated earlier Peach can Uair therough the stage while passing under and why her recovery ability benefits her on Jungle Japes.
You refuted nothing.
I missed the post, that's why.
I mentioned having no lag upon using the tornado.nothing else.
There is lag on the Tornado. Enough to punish Meta Knight with a Dash to Dash Attack/Grab/Fair/Whatever, depends on the character obviously. The only way for Meta Knight to truly escape lag on Tornado is to go high enough to be above Donkey Kongs height, but that leaves him vulnerable during Tornado and during descent.
Who uses the Full Ftilt combo when its been shielded on the first hit?
Many Meta Knights do. Reason being is because there is lag after a single or second hit as well. Second hit has the least lag, but it is still present. Meta Knight mains will try to compensate for this by pushing the Shield back or spacing the time between the attacks in case the opponent tries to drop the Shield. Either the Meta Knight commits to the lag, or risks getting attacked.
Its not high and his mobility makes up for it.
If you think above Donkey Kongs head isn't high, then sure. But it's mobility doesn't save him. He has to retreat in order to avoid vertical moves from break the the Tornado, which leaves him vulnerable for a follow up upon retreat and decent. I covered this above.
In the air yes but how can the opponent proceed to punish when it comes to that amount of range?
Meta Knights range is amazing on the ground for his size. Not so much in the air. Many characters beat him in the air in terms of range. Peach, Donkey Kong, Marth, King Dedede, G&W, Ivysaur and Charizard. All of which also have very fast aerials with good range to override Meta Knight. It's Meta Knights options in the air that make him good, although his range is decent.
Not many characters can shield grab through the hits.
You don't need to grab through the hits. Meta Knights aerial speed is so poor that he can't properly retreat. You wait until all hits connect and then grab him. The Shield Stun is next to nothing, so you can grab him immediately.
Betting is stupid and you just lost.
Read his entire post.
I'll read his post. I don't believe I'll be that impressed.
