Shining Force II Mafia || Game Over! Who lived happily ever after?

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

That's mah gurl!

We lynch Ditz today and if he flips town, we lynch RR tomorrow.

GG, no problem, no problem.

I'll note this for later.

 

[~Bleck Mang~]

Your funny.

You're *

 

[~Bleck Mang~]

It's really quite frustrating that after an entire Day of conflict and cases and such, nothing is going to be resolved if we have an Orbo lynch. Swiss is still going to push Dietz toMorrow, I'm still going to be on RR or Bleck Mang, pro-Dietz v. anti-Deitz showdown will continue going on, other people will still have their main scum picks unresolved and keep pushing them toMorrow, and still people are content to just go with this compromise lynch and accept the lack of information it will provide and the lack of substance the case is built on. /rant

This.

But July why is it so concerning if these guys are lying to themselves about their reasoning for the Orbo lynch? Admittedly, I WOULD rather other lynches (Dietz... RR...), but Orbo's lynch WILL gather information, WILL eliminate a total alibi, and besides we have a Night phase where shiz is BOUND to happen. About these guys lying to themselves, if player X is riding the Orbo wagon cuz he thinks he's scummy and posts it... and then later on goes back on that... you talk about how he said he thinks Orbo's scummy. I mean I get where you're saying about moral integrity... But *shrug* if some aren't as complacent, that's how I see it...

 

[vanderzant]

With 13 Alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Red Ryu has been Silenced, and any votes they cast will not be counted for the remainder of the Day!

Voting (9):
Orboknown (4): No Lynch, th3kuzinator, Bleck Mang, Jdietz43
Jdietz43 (2): Swiss, Ryker,
dabuz (1): Rockin
Swiss (1): Dark Horse
Red Ryu (1): July

Not Voting (4):
dabuz
Red Ryu
Orboknown
felipe_9595

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

This.

But July why is it so concerning if these guys are lying to themselves about their reasoning for the Orbo lynch? Admittedly, I WOULD rather other lynches (Dietz... RR...), but Orbo's lynch WILL gather information, WILL eliminate a total alibi, and besides we have a Night phase where shiz is BOUND to happen. About these guys lying to themselves, if player X is riding the Orbo wagon cuz he thinks he's scummy and posts it... and then later on goes back on that... you talk about how he said he thinks Orbo's scummy. I mean I get where you're saying about moral integrity... But *shrug* if some aren't as complacent, that's how I see it...

You would rather lynch Dietz, but you're not on the wagon when it would literally tie the votes?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

It would?

Brb.

 

[~Bleck Mang~]

It WOULD.

Unvote Vote: JDietz

J don't move this. I'm serious.

 

[Dabuz]

Vanz2gud

Mfw Dietz gets town reads from a claim in the SAME post that includes his gambit. And a miller claim at that.

Put RR as nulltown not town. Dabuz how did you read scum into the post I called him town for?

That post read scum to me for only one reason, RR asked for your opinions before listing his. I don't see why town should have reason to hide an opinion like that. I know RR said he doesn't want to "taint" your opinion, but that works both ways, and it is too easy for RR to sheep you if you put out your thoughts before RR places his. Albeit, he didn't sheep so I guess its a null point. It still unsettles me that RR wants to be so safe.

OK, so Jdietz has claimed miller.
Swiss why do we effectively have a cop guilty on him? Did not see anything of the sort while reading.
Rockin, the reason i was being scatterbrained while catching up is because monday/wednesday i have 11.5 hours of school, 8.5 ish of which are classes.

Would consider lynching dabuz if necessary.
UNsure on Rockin, but town lean
black mang am ok with for now,
but unsure as well on NL.

You know, explanations on your thoughts would be nice.

So his play doesn't match up with how he claimed.

If so, who is coaching him, from reading the full roaster I can think of 8 slots that could do it and 3 I would knock off immediately if he was scum.

Do you think anyone other than Kuz could be coaching him connection wise?

Once again, it unsettles me that RR says he has formed opinions, but doesn't want to be the first want to say what is on his mind. -_-

OK - without outing everything. This is not a gambit.

I have it mod confirmed there is no [to find scum] cop and that there is an indie.

Not a gambit.

Lynch Dietz, ffs.

>mfw someone claims cop as a counter gambit...just don't

If there is no cop - THERE WILL BE NO MILLER.

Is the crux of my case - should have mentioned that.

If Swiss is telling the truth, lynch Deitz

if there is a cop, CC right now!

we'll get 1 scum for sure in either scenario.

Role-fishing for cop if there is one...not good.

Setting up an ultimatum...not good.

Vote: Red Ryu

if there isn't a cop counterclaim by tomorrow morning, i'll throw my vote on Dietz.

Why...?

Make sure everyone has posted before hammering.

Why would you even consider the possibility of hammer with multiple IRL days left in this day?

Even after he claimed to have cheated last time as a part of his gambit? I suppose I can't stop you from trusting him, but there's no way I'm going to.

If he is, this is a case of "Mankind ill needs a power role such as you".

(the real joke is I was ready to try and stop the Swiss vs. Me nonsense today so we could focus on other people since everyone was viewing him as town... I guess that isn't going to actually happen)

*Reads post*
...
...
...
...
...
...
Unvote
Vote: Jdietz43

Yes he would. He's claimed miller to get the cop lynched when they had an inno on him. He wasn't subsequently lynched either.

Swiss is probably lying and should be ignored. Dietz still town. Agree with NL that most of the active posters seem townie. Dabuz and Orbo seem like good lynches. Maybe DH, Rockin or Felipe but I recall having town reads on their slots earlier in the game for some reason. Don't know whether J and Gorf are playing as polar opposites on purpose to try and mask someone from getting a read on the slot or their reads really are that incompatible.

All the people who you state are good lynches are the less inactive players. Can you give me a brief overview for these lynch picks?

And whereas RR blatantly told the cop to CC (something I don't think scum would be the first one to suggest), Orbo just kind of rode RR's sentiments. If anything RR's reaction, though gross, shows that he isn't worried about what other people think about him. He's not being subtle.

Orbo is.

Why WOULDN'T scum be the first to suggest a cop to CC? Town shouldn't be so willing to ask a cop to reveal thyself.

dabuz and Rockin, vote Orbi please.

No, do not agree with Orbi lynch.

 

[No Lynch]

Spoiler

DABUZ DABUZ DABOOOOOOZ

At first I was just completely wtf at that post, then i was like worst scum ever, then i was like TROLOLOLOLO, then I was like srs dafuq..............


Why are you voting dietz, someone you've had a town read on all game???? You quoted some random post but didn't even explain how it makes him scum at all. He's been posting stuff like that all game, yet you've had a town read on him all game lol wutttt.

Second, you've had dumb or scum on Orbo yet you're not willing to lynch him???? Not only this, but you're calling out Ryu for fishing for a cop claim as well as bringing an ultimatum, and ORBO DID THE SAME THING! Yet you're not willing to lynch him????

J, Ryker did dabuz do stuff like this in the game you played with him??? What do you make of this? What is going on here? O_OOPDPFEOfijpdl;o>_> <_< ;;ldfsojefiokldsfdslk,

You know what I don't even care. There is no way town could ever make a post like that....


Ugh Orobo you are lucking out

Vote: dabuz

 

[No Lynch]

double vote day kill vote block roleblock internet super sexy hot catz: dabuz

 

[No Lynch]

dabuz scum
Ryu scum

July or Bleck buddy? Maybe both??

 

[Jdietz43]

did Dabuz just vote twice in the same post...?

Ok, some of those opinions... Does SWF usually have a fool, or is that a rare role around here? Because I'd peg Dabuz as fool now... lol (half joking, half dead serious)

@NL: As weird as Dabuz is acting right now I think July (and Swiss) have a point when they say we'd gain more from a RR lynch today than an Orbo (and most likely Dabuz as well). I'm rather inclined to agree with them on that point. You and many others, myself included, seem to have either a scum read on him or don't mind his lynch today. I think we should heavily consider this and leave Dabuz and Orbo to the Vig, I don't think we're going to have enough support for Orbo or Dabuz lynch today with Felipe and DH being a constant no-vote

(Unvote: Orbo)
Vote: Red Ryu

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Every popular wagon, Zen, all of them.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

For the record, Dabuz scum is highly possible. I came off with the impression that he was intelligent before I bussed the **** out of him for something in Ragnarok mafia.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I come across as not wanting to put my foot in the door there. I disliked Dabuz's post as much as you. He can have a heart to heart with a hungry bear, but only after Dietz dies and RR gets a brick between the teeth.

 

[July]

July what do you suspect is the case with RR being roleblocked/voteblocked?

Voteblock I strongly feel was a town action. Idk why scum would voteblock RR, but as town, keeping RR from voting is one way to make sure he's not as much of a liability toDay. Voteblocking/silencing I'm guessing go together/work as one ability, it would be unlikely for him to get voteblocked and silenced by two different people.

Did he say that he was roleblocked? I only remember voteblocked/silenced and those were the ones that are mod-confirmed.

That's mah gurl!

We lynch Ditz today and if he flips town, we lynch RR tomorrow.

GG, no problem, no problem.

I really don't want to lynch Deitz but I hate the Orbo lynch and No Lynch has his vote on dabuz now which isn't much better. I'll think about it.

This.

But July why is it so concerning if these guys are lying to themselves about their reasoning for the Orbo lynch? Admittedly, I WOULD rather other lynches (Dietz... RR...), but Orbo's lynch WILL gather information, WILL eliminate a total alibi, and besides we have a Night phase where shiz is BOUND to happen. About these guys lying to themselves, if player X is riding the Orbo wagon cuz he thinks he's scummy and posts it... and then later on goes back on that... you talk about how he said he thinks Orbo's scummy. I mean I get where you're saying about moral integrity... But *shrug* if some aren't as complacent, that's how I see it...

Because why lie about? Especially Kuz, who's only other strong push toDay has been Dietz, and now this strong push on Orbo like it's the best lynch ever and voting RR is clearly the wrong direction compared to the Orbo lynch which boils down to: he's a sheep. And No Lynch has had strong reads all game and he's a town leader, he could back those reads up and get strong support for a lynch that will actually accomplish something, settle some reads and give us a good chance of catching scum and yet he's throwing his support behind a shot in the dark.

We might get some good information from an Orbo lynch, but I'm mostly concerned about the ****storm of unresolved reads that will still be floating around toMorrow because Orbo is no one (except maybe Kuz's) top scum pick.

Spoiler

DABUZ DABUZ DABOOOOOOZ

At first I was just completely wtf at that post, then i was like worst scum ever, then i was like TROLOLOLOLO, then I was like srs dafuq..............


Why are you voting dietz, someone you've had a town read on all game???? You quoted some random post but didn't even explain how it makes him scum at all. He's been posting stuff like that all game, yet you've had a town read on him all game lol wutttt.

Second, you've had dumb or scum on Orbo yet you're not willing to lynch him???? Not only this, but you're calling out Ryu for fishing for a cop claim as well as bringing an ultimatum, and ORBO DID THE SAME THING! Yet you're not willing to lynch him????

J, Ryker did dabuz do stuff like this in the game you played with him??? What do you make of this? What is going on here? O_OOPDPFEOfijpdl;o>_> <_< ;;ldfsojefiokldsfdslk,

You know what I don't even care. There is no way town could ever make a post like that....


Ugh Orobo you are lucking out

Vote: dabuz

dabuz scum
Ryu scum

July or Bleck buddy? Maybe both??

I feel like you were either drunk or high while making these posts o_O

Spoiler

I also feel like you are the reason I just watched 4 episodes of One Piece

Care to explain the connection theories in that last post?

And if you think RR is scum then why not have your vote on him instead of dabuz? -_-



No Lynch, you've been one of my strongest town reads, why have you stopped pushing actual lynches and real scum picks and started pushing vig fodder? You're one of the few people who can actually rally a lynch at this point on a worthwhile wagon and instead you're floating around the inactive pool.

 

[Dabuz]

Spoiler

DABUZ DABUZ DABOOOOOOZ

At first I was just completely wtf at that post, then i was like worst scum ever, then i was like TROLOLOLOLO, then I was like srs dafuq..............


Why are you voting dietz, someone you've had a town read on all game???? You quoted some random post but didn't even explain how it makes him scum at all. He's been posting stuff like that all game, yet you've had a town read on him all game lol wutttt.

These 4 posts seem...contradictory. First post says you only have town or null reads. Second post accuses Swiss and Ryker of scum. Third post just states a dislike, kind of a step down from accusing someone of scummery. Fourth post literally says the opposite of the Second post. Unless I misinterpreted that second post, Dietz is now leaking out scum to me.

You must of not read well, because I said in the above quote that Dietz is leaking scum.

Second, you've had dumb or scum on Orbo yet you're not willing to lynch him???? Not only this, but you're calling out Ryu for fishing for a cop claim as well as bringing an ultimatum, and ORBO DID THE SAME THING! Yet you're not willing to lynch him????

Not willing to lynch Orbo because: His lynch doesn't give much to follow up on, his inactivity means I don't see as much that pegs him as scum compared to RR and Dietz.

RR will give me more info, and he has posted more to support my scum read.

Is that enough explanation for you?

J, Ryker did dabuz do stuff like this in the game you played with him??? What do you make of this? What is going on here? O_OOPDPFEOfijpdl;o>_> <_< ;;ldfsojefiokldsfdslk,

You know what I don't even care. There is no way town could ever make a post like that....


Ugh Orobo you are lucking out

Vote: dabuz

Is there anything else you saw as horrid in my post?

 

[Dabuz]

Also, forgot to add that I haven't been paying a lot of attention to Orbo. Can you show me where he fished and brought the ultimatum?

 

[Jdietz43]

Except you never actually read my explanation of those 4 posts apparently... My reads have been nothing but consistent, you only have yourself to blame if you couldn't keep track.

(and saying you haven't been paying attention to Orbo probably isn't a great thing to be saying right now, hell you even quoted him in your last post)

 

[Jdietz43]

("last post" meaning the one NL was voting you for)

 

[Jdietz43]

Also, forgot to add that I haven't been paying a lot of attention to Orbo. Can you show me where he fished and brought the ultimatum?

And do you mean RR, not Orbo?

 

[No Lynch]

@July, yes he did claim that he was roleblocked and that the mod told him so in the same message he got that he was voteblocked.

You would lynch dietz over Oro? I don't get why you're saying it's a shot in the dark? He is scummy. He was trying to act like Swiss' gambit was real. He essentially was aiming for a cop cc and a lynch ultimatum just like RR. He also made contradictions earlier, asking why people would blindly follow Swiss, and then later blindly follow Swiss. Another thing about that post is the fact he assumed that following Swiss blindly was effective (this was during the DH push). Furthermore he has claimed to have fully caught up and has yet to give some legitimate input. All he had was some onelined reads without any explanation. I don't get why you're not even willing to get some pressure on him. Or why you have the thought that he is a shot in the dark.

-Regarding the dabuz connections #1205 explains Bleck.

-As for RR, his last post had to be protecting either Ryu or Orbo. It's a matter of which one. There's no other reason scumbuz would all the sudden switch to dietz despite the "town" read he's had on him. There is some possibility that he is trying to protect Orbo over Ryu. The Orbo wagon gained momentum fast. Ryker offered away out, when he got Gord to switch over to dietz, so I can see dabuz taking this opportunity to get someone else lynched over his buddy. The only thing against this is how strongly he came out and said he was against the Orbo wagon. But that's not much. There's more in support of them being buds than against it.

Still I sense Ryu as a stronger possibility for his partner. This is due to the fact that he voted him in the same post that he switched to dietz. It's like he was just trying to get some distance between them before moving his vote.

Now where you come in on this is your connection to Ryu. Your unvote on him earlier still doesn't sit well with me. Your explanation doesn't really line up to me. I feel like you were attempting to get your vote off of him at an opportunistic time (the time in which I unvoted), but your reasoning didn't really line up and you were called out on it. That's the only reason I think you're pushing him hard now to make up for that. Another thing is that when Ryu interacts with you it's so weird, like when he randomly told you you didn't have to listen to Ryker near the beginning of the day. The only motivation I can see from that, it trying to get some sort of interaction with you. So yeah that's pretty much where that post came from.

These are all circumstantial though and without them, both you and bleck have been playing pretty townie to me. Like I wouldn't lynch either of you at all at this point.

Now as for why I haven't had my vote on Ryu. I've been saving him for the last wagon of the day (At least the Zen side. Soup kind of got some towniness from Ryu's reaction to our push). I realized earlier when I had my vote on him and he got all mad that I wasn't going to get anything out of him. It seemed like a dead push. There is so much time in this d1 so we've been trying to get all that we can out of it. Hence why we have been putting our vote in so many places. There is so much scumminess between the people who haven't been posting as much. I feel that you're assuming we are voting them just because they have been inactive, but they are really scummy too. I'd be willing to lynch any of them. You're focused on connections (even willing to lynch a strong town read such as dietz) where as I'm focused on ridding of lurking scum.

So yeah as I said, I pretty much planned on coming back to Ryu (after soup approved it which he did). But dabuz is now my top choice. I don't think it's even possible for town to make such a post that he just made. I am very shocked that you're not seeing this tbh, July.

I want him dead today as much as Swiss and Ryker want dietz.

 

[Jdietz43]

@NL: How do you rate our chances of nabbing a Dabuz lynch over an RR lynch?

@July: (I c u thar lol): What are your current feelings on Dabuz wrt the fact it seems he has the attention span of a goldfish when it comes to making sense of posts and stances

 

[Dabuz]

Second, you've had dumb or scum on Orbo yet you're not willing to lynch him???? Not only this, but you're calling out Ryu for fishing for a cop claim as well as bringing an ultimatum, and ORBO DID THE SAME THING! Yet you're not willing to lynch him????

And do you mean RR, not Orbo?

I mean Orbo.

Except you never actually read my explanation of those 4 posts apparently... My reads have been nothing but consistent, you only have yourself to blame if you couldn't keep track.

(and saying you haven't been paying attention to Orbo probably isn't a great thing to be saying right now, hell you even quoted him in your last post)

I read the explanation, doesn't mean you magically aren't a scum possibility in my mind anymore.

"I haven't been paying A LOT OF ATTENTION to Orbo" The key words here are: A LOT. I pay attention to him, but it's very possible I missed Orbo fishing and bringing an ultimatum.



NL, ill get to your new post soon.

 

[No Lynch]

if there isn't a cop counterclaim by tomorrow morning, i'll throw my vote on Dietz.

s i have.
im not saying i believe it, but like ryu said, if it is wrong then swiss dies tomorrow.

dabuz here^

 

[No Lynch]

NL, ill get to your new post soon.

If you mean the last one, that's in response to July so you don't have to answer to that.

I'm curious as to why that quote in #1248 made you vote jdietz. Also why did you vote Ryu in the same post? You had already quoted all of the posts and read all the posts so you knew already that you were going to vote jdietz so why did you try to make it look like you were going to join the Ryu wagon?

 

[No Lynch]

Spoiler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdietz43

Pretty much you three were the backup list since I have town or no read on the rest of the people playing this game, and you three were the least helpful of the nulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdietz43
1) You wish scum. You two are the ones I have pegged most, I'm not about to spell it out for you if you haven't figured it out already.

2)
@Mod: Is that legal? I thought we weren't supposed to talk about the mafia game to each other anywhere but in the thread unless you gave us a quick topic thingy to talk in

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdietz43
But I don't even believe you didn't... lol

It would certainly explain the fact that you and Ryker seem to be on the same page without talking in thread

Also, if anything I dislike you even more now

(what the other's ninja'd)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdietz43
Yeah, I'm sure I will lol, but I want to make sure it's not just the people I'm most suspicious of baiting me


Swiss: This isn't about you being scum. This is about you being a bad player.
These 4 posts seem...contradictory. First post says you only have town or null reads. Second post accuses Swiss and Ryker of scum. Third post just states a dislike, kind of a step down from accusing someone of scummery. Fourth post literally says the opposite of the Second post. Unless I misinterpreted that second post, Dietz is now leaking out scum to me.

These 4 posts seem...contradictory. First post says you only have town or null reads. Second post accuses Swiss and Ryker of scum. Third post just states a dislike, kind of a step down from accusing someone of scummery. Fourth post literally says the opposite of the Second post. Unless I misinterpreted that second post, Dietz is now leaking out scum to me.

As dietz said, you're taking these posts out of context. In his first post he was elaborating on his inactives picks that he was asked about. He had already said that he felt Swiss/Ryker were scum. So when he said that everyone else was null/town, he was refering to everyone but the inactives and Swiss/Ryker. So it doesn't contradict any of the other quotes you quoted. With the third post you claim that disliking someone more is a step down, but it's not. That's pretty much semantics. The fourth post you claim contradicts that second, but he isn't saying that he doesn't think Swiss is scum in that post. He was talking about a specific thing (I think one of Swiss' gambits) that didn't have to do with Swiss being scum. He wasn't saying that he didn't think Swiss was scum as whole, he was saying that the gambit had nothing to do with his read.

You misinterpreted these. You agree? If so, you should now be unvoting dietz unless you can explain why that last post you quoted warrants you keeping your vote on him.

Also dabuz I'd like you to explain the reasons you had dietz pegged as town before the above quoted post.

/me doing dietz' job.

 

[Swiss]

Orbo sheeped ******** logic, but he was open and patient about it. RR clearly came at it from a different angle.

Ryker iirc I agree with you on every stance but dabuz, whom I quite like.

 

[Dabuz]

I voted Ryu in that post for two reasons: to show that I would be for his lynch, and I thought it would be kinda comical to have 2 separate votes in one post. Also, if Red Ryu had the bigger votecount on him, I would of switched off Jdietz and ended with my vote on Ryu instead. Both of their wagons are fine with me.



What made me vote for Jdietz based on that quote was:
-It gave me a really bad vibe all around.
-I was surprised how Jdietz implied he thought Swiss was on the chopping block today when he has played really townie (IMO)
-The last sentence (the one in parenthesis) read to me an ATE with the purpose of a desperate attempt to throw off attention from himself.

Those reasons+previous things I found scummy about him are why I put down the vote.

 

[Dabuz]

EBWOP: Also, ended with my vote on Jdietz because he had the bigger wagon. NL, Getting to your other post now.

 

[Swiss]

NL why advocate a Dietz lynch then persuade people to vote elsewhere.

What. Are. Your. Stances. You called out bleck for less earlier.

AND LYNCH DIETZ

 

[Dabuz]

NL why advocate a Dietz lynch then persuade people to vote elsewhere.

What. Are. Your. Stances. You called out bleck for less earlier.

AND LYNCH DIETZ

In this case, I think he is just trying to find inconsistency in me. *Still working on responding to NL's post*

 

[No Lynch]

What made me vote for Jdietz based on that quote was:
-It gave me a really bad vibe all around.
-I was surprised how Jdietz implied he thought Swiss was on the chopping block today when he has played really townie (IMO)
-The last sentence (the one in parenthesis) read to me an ATE with the purpose of a desperate attempt to throw off attention from himself.

Those reasons+previous things I found scummy about him are why I put down the vote.

...

-That's not a reason. Doesn't count.
-Huh? He didn't say anything about Swiss being on the chopping block in that post? Even if he did how would it make him scum?
-Hm ok I guess that's an ok reason.

This is all pretty weak though.. Since I showed that your previous reasoning for thinking he is scum was a misinterpretation, I don't think you really have enough to have a scum read on him just from this. The last reason is the only true reason you give.

NL why advocate a Dietz lynch then persuade people to vote elsewhere.

What. Are. Your. Stances. You called out bleck for less earlier.

AND LYNCH DIETZ

Double u Gee aye Tee?

Like I ever wanted to actually lynch dietz lol.

 

[Dabuz]

I am bad because I never play better than bad.

I was really just wondering whether your style involves being condescending, controlling, and intimidating.

My reads are:
RR scum
NL as town
Ryker leaning town
DH leaning town
Orb is dumb or scum
Dietz town
Kuz is leaning scum
Everyone else is null
I'm watching Swiss in particular because my opinion on you keeps changing.

Oh, guess I misread :/ If Jdietz is playing up the noobcard, it will become reeeeeally obvious after a couple days.

This is when I had the town read on Dietz, I didn't list reasons (Lazy much -_-) But there really wasn't much reason, got the vibe of him being noobtown. Even so, I expressed suspicion of him by saying it will become obvious if he is playing noob card in a couple days. Playing noob card=scummy. So basically, I labeled him as town, but noted that could change very quickly if it becomes obvious he is just acting like a noob.

Am I the only one bothered by this?

(look at 928 for what I am referring to)

Suspicion of Jdietz.

Dietz- After reading the arguments again, he is null for me. There is just too much mix between scum and town play. I do not want him lynched though, like I said before, he will become very obvious in a couple days if he is scum.

Here I stated he is now null for me because he had both town and scum play. You can read the posts following up to get where I got the idea that he is playing both scummy and town.

Informed miller seems like such an odd role, don't you think? Isn't the point of miller to be the player not knowing he is a miller?

I can't find the post, but earlier you stated that you weren't unsure of what to do with your role. You also stated that bread-crumbing seemed like a good idea with a miller? Make up your mind! *Rage*

These 4 posts seem...contradictory. First post says you only have town or null reads. Second post accuses Swiss and Ryker of scum. Third post just states a dislike, kind of a step down from accusing someone of scummery. Fourth post literally says the opposite of the Second post. Unless I misinterpreted that second post, Dietz is now leaking out scum to me.

First part is just me noting the oddity of Jdietz role. Not a scum-tell really, but definitely looked bad in my eyes.

Second part is Jdietz contradicting himself, definitely a scum-tell.

Third part we have already gone over/ you have pretty much discredited me in this case.

 

[Dabuz]

...

-That's not a reason. Doesn't count.
-Huh? He didn't say anything about Swiss being on the chopping block in that post? Even if he did how would it make him scum?
-Hm ok I guess that's an ok reason.

-"Not a reason in your opinion."
-Implied. Its scummy because...know what? your right.
-:l

 

[No Lynch]

Alright you're looking a bit better. Thanks for putting that together.

Second part is Jdietz contradicting himself, definitely a scum-tell.

That's not a contradiction though >_>..... Say I was vig. Say I breadcrummed it. That doesn't mean I would know how I should be playing it? Should I be playing in the background? Should I shoot night 1? See there's no contradiction there. Him breadcrumming his role doesn't have anything to do with knowing how to play his role.

So again your only reason that stands is that he was using AtE to throw attention of himself. This is your one and only reason, which isn't really all that strong. You agree that your other post was wrong, and the above post is wrong too. Since you have ACTUAL reasons to think Ryu is scum, will you vote him now? There is no reason your vote should be on dietz instead of Ryu since you have some stuff against him, while all you have against dietz is the AtE thing.

 

[No Lynch]

Bleck: Opinion on dabuz?
July: Current opinion on dabuz? Would you lynch dietz over dabuz? Would you lynch orbo over dabuz?
Orbo: Opinion on dabuz?
Dark Horse (wait shouldn't he and felipe be replaced?): Opinion on dabuz?
Felipe: Opinion on dabuz?
Ryu: You said you support a dabuz lynch right? More than Orbo? Who are your top 3 scum picks at the moment?
Kuz: Will you lynch dabuz with me? Also I don't think you ever answered if you think Swiss is scum. Also you're probably going to die tonight. Get all your thoughts out before the end of the day.
Rockin: Oh sweet, I didn't even know you were voting dabuz. You would lynch Ryu as well right?
dietz: I wouldn't be voting him if I didn't think he could be lynched. I don't know why you asked that. If you were scum who would you say would be your scumbuddies based on today's events? Take a look at it from an outside perspective and assume you are scum.

 

[Dabuz]

*Sighs* I'm really bad at mafia >.>

Vote: Red Ryu

 

[July]

@July, yes he did claim that he was roleblocked and that the mod told him so in the same message he got that he was voteblocked.

Ah kk, for some reason I thought it was silenced/voteblocked in the same pm, but I'll take your word on it. Roleblocked/voteblocked/silenced all on one person seems really excessive o_O Idk what to think of all those actions on one person in one Night tbh.

You would lynch dietz over Oro? I don't get why you're saying it's a shot in the dark? He is scummy. He was trying to act like Swiss' gambit was real. He essentially was aiming for a cop cc and a lynch ultimatum just like RR. He also made contradictions earlier, asking why people would blindly follow Swiss, and then later blindly follow Swiss. Another thing about that post is the fact he assumed that following Swiss blindly was effective (this was during the DH push). Furthermore he has claimed to have fully caught up and has yet to give some legitimate input. All he had was some onelined reads without any explanation. I don't get why you're not even willing to get some pressure on him. Or why you have the thought that he is a shot in the dark.

The thing is that most of those actions fall under his affinity for sheeping he's so aptly exhibited: Believing the Swiss gambit (following Swiss) and aiming for cop cc and lynch ultimatum like RR (following RR) are both sheepiness. The fact that he is following Swiss after asking why people would follow Swiss is a good point. His catch up post isn't substantiated, but neither is the rest of his play. I think he's a shot in the dark because he's just as likely to be sheepy, apathetic, inconsistent town as sheepy, apathetic scum. And the bolded isn't true; idc if you put pressure on him, but Kuz acted like Orbo was god's gift to the lynch pool and clearly believed he was the lynch for toDay and you were asking me to put him to L-2 which inferred to me you were serious about him as the lynch toDay.

-Regarding the dabuz connections #1205 explains Bleck.

-As for RR, his last post had to be protecting either Ryu or Orbo. It's a matter of which one. There's no other reason scumbuz would all the sudden switch to dietz despite the "town" read he's had on him. There is some possibility that he is trying to protect Orbo over Ryu. The Orbo wagon gained momentum fast. Ryker offered away out, when he got Gord to switch over to dietz, so I can see dabuz taking this opportunity to get someone else lynched over his buddy. The only thing against this is how strongly he came out and said he was against the Orbo wagon. But that's not much. There's more in support of them being buds than against it.

Still I sense Ryu as a stronger possibility for his partner. This is due to the fact that he voted him in the same post that he switched to dietz. It's like he was just trying to get some distance between them before moving his vote.

Ah kk, that's fair enough. Bolded seems like a pretty strong stance without having either one's flip yet but other than that I can see solid reasoning.

Now where you come in on this is your connection to Ryu. Your unvote on him earlier still doesn't sit well with me. Your explanation doesn't really line up to me. I feel like you were attempting to get your vote off of him at an opportunistic time (the time in which I unvoted), but your reasoning didn't really line up and you were called out on it. That's the only reason I think you're pushing him hard now to make up for that. Another thing is that when Ryu interacts with you it's so weird, like when he randomly told you you didn't have to listen to Ryker near the beginning of the day. The only motivation I can see from that, it trying to get some sort of interaction with you. So yeah that's pretty much where that post came from.

Also fair enough, although wrong. It's the same thing I have with Bleck, where some of their posts don't feel genuine and therefore I see scum rather than town intent in them.

Now as for why I haven't had my vote on Ryu. I've been saving him for the last wagon of the day (At least the Zen side. Soup kind of got some towniness from Ryu's reaction to our push). I realized earlier when I had my vote on him and he got all mad that I wasn't going to get anything out of him. It seemed like a dead push. There is so much time in this d1 so we've been trying to get all that we can out of it. Hence why we have been putting our vote in so many places. There is so much scumminess between the people who haven't been posting as much. I feel that you're assuming we are voting them just because they have been inactive, but they are really scummy too. I'd be willing to lynch any of them. You're focused on connections (even willing to lynch a strong town read such as dietz) where as I'm focused on ridding of lurking scum.

I can't read your mind so I didn't know that your intentions were to ever go back to the RR wagon. In some ways I feel like you've been focused on pushing people like dabuz/orbo because they are inactive, but I got in a tizzy because I thought you were voting them with the intention of lynching them too. My rant about not lynching a shot in the dark was partially aimed at you, but it was mostly a reaction to Kuz who I genuinely don't believe thinks that Orbo is as scummy as he's saying he is. The fact that you say you'd be willing to lynch either one infers to me that it's still somewhat a shot in the dark in that you find both slots to have scummy qualities and you are willing to lynch both but I highly doubt you think both are scum together. So saying you'd lynch either one is like saying your willing to shoot and hope you hit the scummy acting scum lurker and not the scummy acting town lurker. And I still find the accusations levied against dabuz/Orbo to be weak suspicions compared to all the other suspicions thrown around this game.

And I'm concerned with making toDay productive, trying to find scum and trying to find connections. I said I would think about voting for Dietz, I haven't agreed to it and I haven't made my mind up yet if it's worth it, so don't say I have. Clearly an RR lynch fulfills those three things I want from a lynch while a dabuz/orbo lynch does not. AND there is a chance lurker scum will get taken out by a vig toNight so there is no reason to minimize our productivity, ability to find connections, and chances of hitting scum when we can leave them as vig fodder.

So yeah as I said, I pretty much planned on coming back to Ryu (after soup approved it which he did). But dabuz is now my top choice. I don't think it's even possible for town to make such a post that he just made. I am very shocked that you're not seeing this tbh, July.

I want him dead today as much as Swiss and Ryker want dietz.

I went back and reread his posts, your reasons for voting him, then did a rough ISO. First of all, this is wrong:

Spoiler

Why are you voting dietz, someone you've had a town read on all game???? You quoted some random post but didn't even explain how it makes him scum at all. He's been posting stuff like that all game, yet you've had a town read on him all game lol wutttt.

This was his first post of reading giving a read on him:

My reads are:
RR scum
NL as town
Ryker leaning town
DH leaning town
Orb is dumb or scum
Dietz town
Kuz is leaning scum
Everyone else is null
I'm watching Swiss in particular because my opinion on you keeps changing.

Then I asked him to explain some of his reads and he said this:

Am I the only one bothered by this?




Do you get anything from a Felipe lynch? What will an Orbo or myself lynch do for you?



Why do you think this description of Kuz is wrong?

@Everyone: What do you think about the interaction between July and Black Mang? It feels like July is either tunneling a little bit or using suspicions on Black Mang to appear involved without being noticeable.

@July: What do you think about Swiss?

@july: Reasons behind my reads-
RR- His entire play this game is too safe and he doesn't bring discussion places despite posting a lot. I read his posts and think to myself two things: "Random commentary and not being relevant enough to continue discussion."

NL- They are active, do a lot of pushing, questioning, scum-hunting, and right now they have very obvious intentions in their posts.

Ryker- Feels like a lesser version of NL to me. Questioning, pushing, scum-hunting, ect. He just isn't doing so strongly. I'm not positive on him being town because I can't read his intentions yet.

DH- Had no problem putting his head on the chopping block early game in order to get us out of RvS, reminds me of Ragnarok where he was town. I don't see scum as so quick to get us out of RvS.

Orb- Very willing to just follow Swiss. Right now it doesn't look like he is ready to do thinking of his own.

Dietz- After reading the arguments again, he is null for me. There is just too much mix between scum and town play. I do not want him lynched though, like I said before, he will become very obvious in a couple days if he is scum.

Kuz- Posting style makes me uneasy all around, I don't know how else to explain it.

Everyone else just hasn't given me enough to make early reads.

Also, Swiss's latest posts reminds me of my own scum play in Ragnarok, however I have no clue yet if he really believes Dietzscum or wants to lynch a weak player. Definitely leaning scum to me.

AND then here (bolded are addressed at Dietz, best to read it in context with Dietz's quotes):

Why does NL looks bad to you?







The bolded part bothers me in this post. Looks like role-fishing to me, Jdietz isn't at L-2 yet so asking for a claim is really scummy.

Also, has your opinion on Swiss changed or do you still think he is scum?

The third to last sentence has a very...helpful tone to it. It reads to me that is RR telling Jdietz he can get townie points for claiming.





(Bolded part) I forget where I saw this tactic earlier, but the bolded part is RR not wanting to be the first to place his opinions. Thats TOO safe, RR is TOO concerned about being the first to post any opinions here.



Informed miller seems like such an odd role, don't you think? Isn't the point of miller to be the player not knowing he is a miller?



I can't find the post, but earlier you stated that you weren't unsure of what to do with your role. You also stated that bread-crumbing seemed like a good idea with a miller? Make up your mind! *Rage*



RR, do you think I am scum? If so, why?

Are you confident in Dietz town? If so, why?









These 4 posts seem...contradictory. First post says you only have town or null reads. Second post accuses Swiss and Ryker of scum. Third post just states a dislike, kind of a step down from accusing someone of scummery. Fourth post literally says the opposite of the Second post. Unless I misinterpreted that second post, Dietz is now leaking out scum to me.



What about RR's play seems scummy to you?





I like making my posts in different colors each time so the thread looks pretty~~~~ <3<3<3<3 ^.^ ^.^ ^.^ ^.^










Can you find a previous post where you stated your scum picks? I don't remember you mentioning anything about it earlier, especially adressing suspicion of me.

This post actually he actually has Dietz leaning scum, so your argument is invalid here.

The next point you make about Orbo, I've already addressed but Orbo has just been a sheepy sheep, RR is the one who instigated the cc and the ultimatum. As for him having Orbo as scum or dumb and not voting him, I'll just take your word on that because I can't find it, so I'll take your word on it and count that as a good point.

As for his actual points: RR points see fine, taking the Orbo "scum or dumb" thing as true I'd expect him to be harder on Orbo, JDietz vote is unsubstantiated but he did have a scum lean on him so not terribly scummy as I'm sure you saw it thinking he was town on him up until then, questions to Kuz are nice, I'd like him to answer that one about the active players, other one is a bit of a rhetorical question but still not a bad point. I don't see this post as terribly scummy as you made it seem.

 

[July]

Bleck: Opinion on dabuz?
July: Current opinion on dabuz? Would you lynch dietz over dabuz? Would you lynch orbo over dabuz?
Orbo: Opinion on dabuz?
Dark Horse (wait shouldn't he and felipe be replaced?): Opinion on dabuz?
Felipe: Opinion on dabuz?
Ryu: You said you support a dabuz lynch right? More than Orbo? Who are your top 3 scum picks at the moment?
Kuz: Will you lynch dabuz with me? Also I don't think you ever answered if you think Swiss is scum. Also you're probably going to die tonight. Get all your thoughts out before the end of the day.
Rockin: Oh sweet, I didn't even know you were voting dabuz. You would lynch Ryu as well right?
dietz: I wouldn't be voting him if I didn't think he could be lynched. I don't know why you asked that. If you were scum who would you say would be your scumbuddies based on today's events? Take a look at it from an outside perspective and assume you are scum.

20 posts, not much to go off of, probably like 12 with content in them that I thought was worth looking at/skimming, and his reads were all right. I don't see anything that stood out to me as having really scummy intentions, nothing that struck me as inherently towny, I can't muster strong feelings about him, he's asked some good questions of RR and Kuz, some reads are weak though, Jdeitz thing I didn't take as scummy as you did, I'm actually fine with his interactions with Jdeitz, read on him is null slightly town.

I would lynch orbo over dabuz. If I had to lynch between Dietz or dabuz I'd cry in a corner. Honestly I'm aggravated right now, I'm tired and spent like 7 hours on a paper right now, and a very big part of me really just wants the pro-deitz v. anti- dietz, dietz v. Swiss thing to stop, I want this Day to be productive and I'm going to be pissed if we come out of it with nothing resolved, but it feels wrong, he gives me such town vibes and if he flips town it will be like I just helped stab a baby seal through the heart. Meh. Whether you agree or not JDietz would be the better lynch for town, it's better information, **** gets done toDay and we can move on, and if by some chance he ends up flipping scum then there's a group of us who know we are very wrong on our reads and can adjust and if he flips scum then there are a group of people who know they are wrong and forced to reevaluate their reads and look elsewhere. dabuz lynch is only really beneficial to town on a scum flip, which I don't genuinely believe anyone is as convinced of as people are convinced of their opinion on JDietz, whether they think he's town or scum.

^worst paragraph ever but I'm soo tired I really don't care.

RR is still preferred lynch over JDietz, orbo, and dabuz.