Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Bakasquad5]

I'm really good at tech chasing, but for some reason when my opponent techs, all I can think of is dsmash.

Oxymoron?

Or just Drephen in disguise?

i do that a lot now too, drephen has corrupted me

 

[KirbyKaze]

Tech chasing for D-smash for guaranteed damage is fine and dandy but I prefer killing people when I grab them from single grabs so I often regrab a bunch of times or u-smash or keep doing stuff that continues to knock them over and force them into more stuff so I can keep homo-****** their body.

Grab is 7 / 8 frame startup. D-smash is 5. It's not a hard adjustment to make. And the payoff is better.

Unless they tech to the edge. Then it's D-smash all dai.

Obviously d-smash is amazing if you screw up because it's faster and whatever but like, regrab is just so gay. So is dash attack and whatever because it keeps knocking them over into more gay.

 

[LooksLikePit]

lolol what I meant to say is that when they don't tech, the only thing I can think of is dsmash. Are there any better options? Ending a possibly long string of grabs with a dsmash is kind of a waste, unless they're at higher %'s and it would lead to an edgeguard or something.

 

[Binx]

jab reset and grab them again. Or just wait for them to get up, you can shield if you think they will attack. Or at dash attack percents you can just do that, or like you said dsmash to edgeguard.

 

[LooksLikePit]

alright thanks for the advice! I'm gonna try this stuff out next time I play a fox...

 

[KirbyKaze]

Jab reset forces a slow get-up until 30 or so iirc.

After that, jab to forced get-up and react or alternatively u-smash or dash attack or d-smash. This percentage is tricky. Not super tricky, but they get more options, and this isn't known to a lot of people, so it blows their mind when they see a fox do get-up attack after jab reset. I don't know why, but it does.

Alternatively, you can shield and then react. If you see a slow get-up, u-smash or grab. Get-up attack is countered by shield grab and the rolls by simple wd. If they lie in place, you can often surprise them with an u-smash out of shield.

After a certain percent they can just DI up regrettably and foil jabs entirely. But by then you should be aiming to kill them anyways. I think for Fox it's like 71 but I don't remember and don't usually find myself in that situation, so I don't explore it as much as I should. Fortunately, I don't need to.

elvenarrow3000.

elven.

elvenarrow.

help will be here momentarily.

for fun, hiemie.

 

[soap]

forward smashing missed techs is kinda fun sometimes

alot of people seem to miss the following tech as well and it leads to dash attack

whatever u do avoid dsmash at low low percents like the plague. they get reset while u are still spinning and they grab u.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

...psh, whatever KirbyKaze, I don't search my own name. Anyway, jab resets, right?

The point where they can begin to do a different getup than stand is based entirely on the attack's launch power, which has been multiplied by their weight, so it follows the weight list in the same way.

Attacks like Peach's jab for example, which has a fixed knockback, will always allow Fox/Falco to Roll or Attack in addition to Stand on a forced getup with it, while it will always force CF to Stand regardless of what he holds/presses on forced getup. This is because the base knockback of her slap multiplied by Fox/Falco's weight puts the launching power beyond the needed amount to allow the additional options, whereas when multiplied by CF's weight the power is below the required amount.

Regardless of the options the attack's launch power allows, in order for them to get a forced getup in the first place they need to be on the ground following the attack after like 13 frames or something, which is a short animation where they lay back down following the ground hit. If they're still in the air when the animation completes they go into a neutral fall stance and simply land on their feet and can do whatever.


This is the damage they need to be at after the hit for Sheik's Needles and Jab to allow the extra Roll and Attack options on a forced getup. Below this they will always do the normal stand on forced getup.

They both seem to have the same damages so I suppose they have roughly the same power at that damage range. Non-fastfallers won't hit the ground again nearly as fast so they land on their feet instead easily when using a Jab. FFers do this too at higher damages or when they DI/SDI the Jab upwards at lower damage.

Bowser .... 45
DK ........ 44
Samus ..... 44
Ganon ..... 43
Yoshi ..... 43
CF ........ 42
Link ...... 42
Dr Mario .. 42
Luigi ..... 42
Mario ..... 42
Ness ...... 40
Peach ..... 39
Sheik ..... 39
Zelda ..... 39
ICs ....... 39
Marth ..... 39
Mewtwo .... 38
Roy ....... 38
Y Link .... 38
Falco ..... 37
Pikachu ... 37
Fox ....... 36
Kirby ..... 35
Jiggs ..... 33
G&W ....... 33
Pichu ..... 32


For the Jab, these are the faster falling and more relevant characters that don't get out of it easily. This is the percent after the hit that these characters will begin to land on their feet if they hold UP when jabbed off the floor.

Fox ....... 71
Falco ..... 43
CF ........ 33
Sheik ..... 25
Roy ....... 20
DK ........ 19

^^ If you're wondering why Fox's is so high there it's because of his fall acceleration being much higher than everyone else's.

 

[SPAWN]

XD I was just about to post that.

"Homo-****** their body" is such a lovely phrase. *stoled*


You can actually just react to fox's get up attack with a shield. It's pretty good stuff. Along with them rolling by boostgrabbing.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Yes. Boost grab with Sheik is probably one of her most broken things ever.

I remember when I first heard soap talking about it and was like "w/e jc grab and dash grab are better except in tech chase" but I was like 1000% wrong. It is so unbelievably gay. So so so so so gay. It's too good, it ***** dash dance camps like nothing you've ever seen when you space it and time it properly, it ***** tech rolls on tech chase, it adds crazy rapesies to Sheik's own dash dance game, and that's all I've been using it for so far but seriously that's a lot of really useful stuff right there. I bet you could probably find 2-3 more practical, common occurances that it helps with. The range boost is ********.

 

[SPAWN]

Yeah, seriously. I saw Tope boost grab in tournament and was like. o_O It like quadruples Sheiks range, it's so ridiculous.

 

[Cia]

daaaamn, that magus chart just improved my game by like.. 4%

i'm a jab resetting, tech chase w.hore. but i never knew the actual percents.

 

[soap]

im pretty sure u can change the length of the boost grab depending on when u cancel the dash attack.

i try to get it as late as possible so u get the full boost of the dash attack then tack on the dash grab

 

[KirbyKaze]

you're all doing it wrong

stop planning how you're doing things and the strategic advantage of making the lunge animation more obvious so they think you're going for dash attack you don't need that with sheik just press buttons and you'll win most of your matchups

people can be so stupid

 

[Binx]

whats the timing on the boost grab? I'm sure I could go find it somewhere else but... yeah.

 

[soap]

its kinda the same timing as the jump cancel grab, but like a fraction of a second later. and u hit A instead of jump

 

[KirbyKaze]

soap is so smart

*swoon*

 

[Binx]

okay, thank you. This will be fun to learn, apparently you need it for sheik dittos anyways haha.

 

[Teczer0]

I think boostgrabbing is cool =D.

I only thought so recently though.............

Yay for super homo tech chases.

Vaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanz plaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay me =D

 

[CanISmash]

omg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTGu-8niGrE&feature=channel 1:30 has to be one of sheiks gayest moment.

holy **** yo in retrospect that whole ****ing match is just ****.... =x lolol sorry.

 

[SPAWN]

Beautiful.

 

[Teczer0]

OMFG

m2k's sheik

Is ****in SEXY

God what a ***got

 

[soap]

ya, that was pretty cool. That super low double bair was pretty too

m2k is pretty good at gimping people and edgeguarding.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

m2k sheiks is ridiculous

m2ks everything is ridiculous

/meatride

 

[Luma]

y really is doing some incredible stuff, but his fair spaceing sucks ^^

 

[Tope]

That match wasn't that impressive simply because PC killed himself like every stock.

when you jab and they pop up in the air, just pivot boost grab!!!! soooo good

 

[Linguini]

im half maining sheik with ganon so can i get some tips vs marth? thenks

 

[KirbyKaze]

Do stuff that isn't tilts or jabs when he's on the ground because good Marth will CC grab you for all of those and **** you.

D-smash additionally is mostly ineffectual (especially on shields) unless it's high percent and you're looking for an edgeguard or something.

Beyond that, just use a lot of needles, dash attack, grab, and spaced aerials. Not so much on spaced aerials, but you will wind up using them probably. Waveshield is also very good / important against Marth.

Do stuff after grabs.

 

[Teczer0]

I think I should turn this thread into a "Ask KirbyKaze Questions" thread too LMAO.

I think I give up about the first page . *sigh*

 

[KirbyKaze]

Your sigs and stuff always make me happy.

edit: It's just me being lazy with school.

I might make a thread cataloguing the entirety of all the information dispersed amongst these various threads and archiving them together but probably won't happen until later.

 

[Spife]

Your sigs and stuff always make me happy.

edit: It's just me being lazy with school.

I might make a thread cataloguing the entirety of all the information dispersed amongst these various threads and archiving them together but probably won't happen until later.

Do it.
>.>
Random Link main, away! *wooosh*
also, come to MM14 yesterday. And to NY on the 7th. Plz.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I suck don't invite me to your American soil I might pollute the average skill level with my horribleness.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

i can compile if you don thave the time KK

 

[Spife]

I suck don't invite me to your American soil I might pollute the average skill level with my horribleness.

I suck too, and I main Link. I win in suckyness, so you cant' be that horrible. Suckyness MM?

 

[KirbyKaze]

I used to main Kirby so I'm pretty sure I remember how to suck harder than pretty much anyone.

junglefever, I'll compile later tonight after I read this horrible little piece of literature they've cleverly disguised as mandatory reading for my course. I want to get my essay done tonight, so I might try to fuse both days and then just sleep tomorrow 'cuz classes don't restart until tuesday I think.

 

[Spife]

I used to main Kirby so I'm pretty sure I remember how to suck harder than pretty much anyone.

Okay, you win, you can get your medal of suckyness in Nanuet, NY! >.>
I'm sorry I'm polluting this sheik thread.

 

[KirbyKaze]

*shrug*

Nobody really cares.

If someone else isn't violating the integrity of the Sheik boards then I am so oh well.

 

[Ryan-K]

yo whats with the usmash tech chase nonsense on space animals or w/e.

isnt it supposed to cover most of their options out of dthrow or have i been bamboozled?

i dont actually really know how to do it/the details lol X_x

 

[KirbyKaze]

If you time u-smash perfectly, you can cover Fox techs towards you, non-techs, and techs in place.

You have to do it kind of early.

I don't think it works on Falco.

I don't do it perfectly so hopefully someone better will stroll in here and explain it.

The way it works is that tech in place has 20 frames of invincibility iirc on a startup and I think tech rolls have the same. So if you time it, you can hit them through their tech roll, tech in place, and non-tech. So that's pretty awesome.

But I don't know when you do U-smash or how you do it either (ie. if you have to dash jc u-smash or something to get positioned and other crap depending on di and percentage, but hopefully someone else does know).

 

[Ryan-K]

yeah i was tryign to do it on my friend, and i was only able to get him when he teched in place and i even thhen i would usually usmash too early and it would miss so i just charged usmash a little and would let it go, im pretty sure i was ****ing it up though but whatever thanks, im trying to think of more fox questions but i cant think of anything atm x_X.