Sheik Frame Data

[East]

More to be added later.

How to read:

Total Frames: How many frames your attack will last without any hit lag.

Start Up: The amount of frames it takes before a hurtbox is present in the attack

Hit: The exact frame the hurtbox for an attack comes out

Ending Lag: The amount of frames it takes after an attack to be reset to a neutral position.

If you would like the Excel file with all of this information, PM me and I'll give it to you [.xlxs format ie. Excel 2007]

*Please make note of asterisks below some tables*​

How to read:

Charge: Least Frames: The least amount of frames of charging needle to get +1 Needle.

Start Up: The amount of frames before a needle is thrown [This is carried over from Charge: Least Frames. I technically count charging as start-up, if you don't want to read the notes at the bottom].

Thrown: The exact frame each needle is thrown.

Ending Lag: The amount of frames after needles to be reset to a neutral position

Total Frames: How many frames the attack will last.

*Please read the notes at the bottom of the table*​

How to read:

Start Up: The amount of frames it takes before a hurtbox is present in the attack

Hit: The exact frame the hurtbox for an attack comes out

Ending Lag: The amount of frames it takes after an attack to be reset to a neutral position.

Total Frames: How many frames your attack will last without any hit lag.

*Please read the notes at the bottom of the table*​

How to Read

Invulnerable: The exact frame in which the character is unable to be hit

Hit: The exact frame the hurtbox for an attack comes out

Reappear: The exact frame in which the character reappears. [I hypothesize that this is when the character can be hit as well.]

Ending Lag: The amount of frames it takes after an attack to be reset to a neutral position.

Total Frames: How many frames the attack will last.

*Please read the notes at the bottom of the table*​

Questions? Ask Below.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Good **** East. The pretty colours just make frame data all the more fun.

 

[saviorslegacy]

*sigh*..... no Chain......
Other than that good work. This helps with my footstool idea's.

 

[Tristan_win]

it's pretty and all but... it's been done already.

Thank you for making the data more presentable though

 

[East]

Note that there are some discrepencies between Ankoku's data and mine. We should probably get these situated.

 

[Zankoku]

Attack duration should not change. You're counting frames of hitlag, which you shouldn't be.

 

[Steel]

there's also no shield hit lag w/ advantages/disadvantages etc :/

 

[East]

Ankoku: You're referring to when your attack freezes and the percentage shakes at the bottom of the screen?

For example their are 5 frames of hitlag if you jab someone?

Steel2nd: I kind of follow you, but then you lose me when you say with advantages and disadvantages.

 

[Steel]

here:

ADVANTAGE FORMULA: SHIELDSTUN + HIT - SHIELDHITLAG - END (or IASA)

Marth's fsmash:

Forward Smash
Hit: 10
End: 49
Shield Stun: 13
~Shield Hit Lag: 6
ADVANTAGE: -32
Tipper Shield Stun: 16
~Shield Hit Lag: 17
ADVANTAGE: -40

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204825

 

[East]

*Updated*

Added all the worthwhile specials and adjusted everything according to what Ankoku said. I'll go back and do shield hit lag, and shield frame advantages and the like later.

 

[Zankoku]

Keep in mind you have to subtract those hitlag/freezeframes from the number for any later hits.

 

[saviorslegacy]

*Updated*

Added all the worthwhile specials and adjusted everything according to what Ankoku said. I'll go back and do shield hit lag, and shield frame advantages and the like later.

Whenever you use the chain what is the hit on?
ie You can make the chain hit every 1 or 2 frames.


:EDIT:
What is the frame for footstool?
I also want to know how many frames pass when you perform f-tilt to footstool on R.O.B. and Ike.

 

[East]

Ankoku: Dammit. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll take care of that later tonight

Saviorslegacy:

Question 1: I didn't check. I guess I'll check that as well. I think this will be kind of difficult to ascertain. I don't know why, but I just have a feeling.

Question 2: Doesn't this depend on the height of the character? I would assume that there wouldn't be a large [few frames] difference, but a difference none the less.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Ankoku: Dammit. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll take care of that later tonight

Saviorslegacy:

Question 1: I didn't check. I guess I'll check that as well. I think this will be kind of difficult to ascertain. I don't know why, but I just have a feeling.

Question 2: Doesn't this depend on the height of the character? I would assume that there wouldn't be a large [few frames] difference, but a difference none the less.

Probably.. so enjoy it.


It does, however for some reason it is really easy to perform on R.O.B. and hard to perform on Ike (fast faller + tall). What I want to know is how many frames it takes to perform the footstool. If it combo's on Ike then I can pretty much say that the only people that can get out of it are the really floaty like Jigg's (although I am pretty sure that Wario can't DI out either).

 

[Tristan_win]

^_^ That's more like it east but while your at it could you get the frame data on sheik crouch and for luls do the frame data on sheik running across FD.

The sonic boards have the running across FD and I always kinda wonder how fast sheik could do it, sonic can do it in less then a second if I recall correctly.

 

[Jski]

Dam sheik is fast i wander if she fast enofe to out attk any other character in the game hmmm? Any way do you guys have any frame data on dash attk 2 hits (i think there first hit that a sweet spot and a sower spot hit)?

 

[saviorslegacy]

Dam sheik is fast I wonder if she is fast enough to out attack any other character in the game hmmm? Anyways do you guys have any frame data on dash attack's 2 hits (I think there is a first hit that is a sweet spot and a sour spot hit)?

She can out speed people. That is one of her strong points.

There is 2 hits. #1 Is her hands and #2 is her head (the Ninja Headbutt).
Here is Tristans thread on the subject:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199727&highlight=ninja+headbutt

 

[Flamingo]

East is too good.

 

[East]

*Update*

Fixed Ending Lag for multi-hit attacks. Thanks Ankoku.

Some Other Info

• It takes Sheik exactly 91 frames to dash from one side of Final Destination to the other.
• I assume that because Sheik's chain has no hitlag, that it can it at earliest every 2 frames, however no matter what I tried the earliest I could get her to hit the opponent was every 4 frames.
• Frame [1-6]: Dash
  Frame [7]: Dash Attack
  Frame [8]: No Input
  Frame [9-10]: Up Smash = DACUS
  Frame [11+] Whiff

During the first 6 frames of a dash, you cannot put in the input for a dash attack or it will cancel the dash into a forward smash. On the 7th frame you can input dash attack. On the 8th frame you cannot put in any inputs [what I assume is start up lag]. You have between the 9th and 10th frame to input the Up Smash to get a DACUS. What that means is Sheik has 3 frames from your dash attack to input the Up Smash to get a DACUS. Which means if you input it too quickly, you'll whiff. If you input it too slowly you'll whiff.

Considering Brawl has 61 frames per second [which translates to 1 frame every [approximately] 16.4 milliseconds 16.4/1000] Citation Link that means you have just under 49.2 milliseconds [49.2/1000]to input the Up Smash itself; however you can't input it before 16.4 milliseconds [16.4/1000], which means you only have just under 32.8 milliseconds [32.8/1000] to do the Up-Smash.

Now a millisecond is a rather small frame of time, so let's break it down into something that people are a little more familiar with. How about 1/100th of a second [1 centisecond].

• 1 Frame = 1.6 centiseconds
• Time frame of DACUS = 4.9 centiseconds
• Time frame at the start of the dash attack where you cannot do the Upsmash = 1.6 centiseconds
• Time after start-up lag that you can do the Up-Smash = 3.2 centiseconds.

Now for a little overkill, let's go up a little further to deciseconds, which are 1/10th of a second.

• 1 Frame = .16 Deciseconds
• Time frame of DACUS = .49 Deciseconds
• Time frame at the start of the dash attack where you cannot do the Upsmash = .16 deciseconds
• Time after start-up lag that you can do the Up Smash = .32 deciseconds.

What does all that translate into? DACUS execution time for sheik is less than 1/10th of a second. In fact it's only 3/100th's of a second. Take that however you will, whether it be to flaunt your execution timing skills or some more hard factual evidence for reasons why you don't do the DACUS.

 

[sniperworm]

Nice DACUS info. So we have two frames to input the Usmash for DACUS, that's fun. I think you had a little too much fun with the unit conversions (I think most of us can go from milliseconds to centiseconds, deciseconds, and seconds), but it was good info nonetheless.

*Updated*

Added all the worthwhile specials and adjusted everything according to what Ankoku said. I'll go back and do shield hit lag, and shield frame advantages and the like later.

I can't wait for the shield advantages...

 

[Tristan_win]

****ing 3 frames... Good **** muscle memory, goooood ****ing ****.

 

[<π]

csn you press cstick down to instantly dash attack? o.0

Also needles... are you sure?

sheild advantage would be sexy But it's not like I have room to complain.

 

[East]

What part of the needles don't you agree with? I can retest it if you'd like.

 

[<π]

I thought needle throw times don't change...

err...

it takes the same amount of time to throw one needle as it does to throw all 6.

but... you said that and I can't read. no complaints

 

[East]

How to explain this...

the times don't change.

Throwing 1 needle has 36 frames of lag.

Because needles come out 3 frames after the last one, the time the other needles come out actually eats into the lag if that makes sense.

So let's say you throw two needles. They have 33 frames of lag.

1 Needle = 36 Frames of Lag
1 Needle = 3 Frames after the last one

1 Needles = 36 Frames of Lag - 3 Frames for 2nd needle = 33 Frames of lag.

No matter how many needles you throw, Sheik uses the same amount of total frames, however how many frames sheik has of action and lag differ by how many needles are thrown.

I hope that makes sense : X
If not, contact me on AIM.

 

[saviorslegacy]

The following is quoted from Hotgarbage:

Sheik's chain:
first hitbox (non-tipper) out on frame: 22
earliest tipper hit: frame 25
cooldown (time it takes to pull it back): 33 frames

Is there anything else you need to know about this move? I'm not very familiar with it so I may have missed something :X.

The fastest I got it to hit was every other frame.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I knew I forgot something!

non-tipper: 3 frames
tipper: 28 frames

I combined "hitstun" and "hitlag" in these figures, as since sheik doesn't go through any hitstun there's no reason to separate them.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sure thing

Sheik grabs the ledge/obtains invincibility on frame 4. Oddly enough it's the same regardless of how far away from the ledge she is.

Oh, and her tether grabs the ledge on frame 9.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh lol.

Tethers for characters in general work like this:
- Input is given
- Character sits there for 2 frames
- They reel themselves in. This takes 1-4 frames, depending on the character and how far they are from the ledge.

To answer your question, yes it is possible to use sheik's chain to keep them from reaching the ledge. I was able to do it against zss actually. I'm not sure how reliable this would be in a match though, since they're only vulnerable for 1-2 frames.

------------------------------------------------------------------------


To see the conversation (in case the above doesn't make sense) see here:
http://www.smashboards.com/converse.php?u=75883&u2=130576&page=2


I figured two heads were better than one, and some of the data in here you don't have.

 

[East]

Before I go through with this, If I were to do shield advantages what would come of it? Wouldn't every advantage be negative?

 

[Zankoku]

I believe so.

 

[East]

So then...

Moral of the story: Hitng Shiild r baaaad!

Well, I guess I've filled my research quota for the day.

 

[<π]

they'd probablly all be negetive, but! if you accounf for sheild drop you may see some advantages. I am never punished for ftilt on sheild unless I'm really close in front of them.

 

[Zankoku]

I'm rarely punished for autocanceled fair on shield because my jab hits on frame 2 and their fastest option is frame 6. Thus I need a frame advantage of -4 or worse to get punished.

 

[East]

I was not aware that dropping your shield took more than 1 frame. Tell me more.

 

[<π]

takes 7 frames for every character to drop sheild some options like grab, jump and upB can be done without dropping sheild.

 

[gm jack]

And dropping out of a perfect shield is also 2 frames IIRC.

However, Ftilt at full range is good shield pressure, as it leaves a very small margine for people to get out, and often I get a free Ftilt lock from it.

 

[Charoo]

do u think u can do me a favor and find out the frame for rolling, sidestep, shield, jumping, gran, and all that good stuff too?

Also, when u nair oos is it like

using peach's frame:

frame 6 to go airbone + frame 2 for nair to come out = 8 frame total

if that's true then it would be cool to know sheik's airbone frame. nair is 3 frame so maybe we jump fast enough to beat some grabs too. Frame 4 to jump = 7 frame total so peach can't grab up or something like that

 

[choknater]

I'm rarely punished for autocanceled fair on shield because my jab hits on frame 2 and their fastest option is frame 6. Thus I need a frame advantage of -4 or worse to get punished.

since ur autocanceling the fair, the fair should be a little high.. isnt there a little bit of time between teh fair and the jab in the little window ur in the air to punish?

 

[Zankoku]

Charoo: You're correct.
choknater: That's how it works, yes, but it's not exactly what I was talking about. I was pretty much just implying that autocancel fair to jab hits really quickly so it tends to punish even slightly slow reactions.

 

[-Mars-]

I'm starting to use fair more than I use any other aerial. It has surprising range and seems to be sort of disjointed? Maybe that's just me?

Anyways fair is so quick and leading into her jabs or an ftilt can destroy certain characters. I find myself f****** up the jab cancel and accidentally rapid jabbing more now though as I try to buffer this extremely quickly.

 

[choknater]

haha wow so champ ur staying use autocancel fair to fast nair? that sounds cool

 

[Emo^Wolf]

****n wheres ed?