Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

Do you think shantae can make it?

  • Yes, as a fighter

  • Yes, as a assist trophy

  • No, not as a assist trophy

  • No, not at all


Results are only viewable after voting.
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We're probably not too far off thinking it could be a 3D render of her Half-Genie Hero/Seven Sirens sprite they'll do for Shantae if WayForward's insistent on it and while I would've liked the one from the Gameboy days to be the version we got in Smash, I wouldn't be upset with this choice either.
 
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The potential 3D model for Shantae, whatever it ends up being, will be incredible. The Smash team has consistently delivered the glow up job of the century for every character that has gotten into Ultimate. Hell, Ken from Street Fighter looks better than he ever has despite the dozens of games from various companies he's been in. I'm almost more worried that if Shantae does get in, Wayforward will never be able to model Shantae up to the Smash standard in case they decide to make a 3D platformer down the line.
 
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We're probably not too far off thinking it could be a 3D render of her Half-Genie Hero/Seven Sirens sprite they'll do for Shantae if WayForward's insistent on it and while I would've liked the one from the Gameboy days to be the version we got in Smash, I wouldn't be upset with this choice either.
The sprite decision for Seven Sirens seems more of a cost-cutting measure than insistence.

The character art direction in Smash runs the gamut from being primarily gameplay-inspired (Megaman) for nostalgia, boxart-based (Simon), recency or fame-based (Samus/Dark Samus, most of the Pokemon who've changed through generations, the space animals) or a hybrid of multiple designs (King K. Rool, Ridley).

I'd like the last option to have Seven Sirens eyes and skin tone and varying accoutrements from past entries.
 
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The potential 3D model for Shantae, whatever it ends up being, will be incredible. The Smash team has consistently delivered the glow up job of the century for every character that has gotten into Ultimate. Hell, Ken from Street Fighter looks better than he ever has despite the dozens of games from various companies he's been in. I'm almost more worried that if Shantae does get in, Wayforward will never be able to model Shantae up to the Smash standard in case they decide to make a 3D platformer down the line.
That is assuming they ever get the budget for it. A Hat in Time needed many years to look as good as it did, and that ran on the Unity Engine.

Though my only concern is unintentionally padding things out in the wrong way like with the first Yooka-Laylee.
 
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Here are the official art for shantae in her 5 games. Including the in game models. Also, she has changed after looking back the 18 years Shantae has continued to go forward.
Precisely my point. Mai's penchant for provocative and plunging performance wear was never preventing her participation. Rather it was the perpetually pendulous properties of her *ehem* personality.
 
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Previously my point. Mai's penchant for provocative and plunging performance wear was never preventing her participation. Rather it was the perpetually pendulous properties of her *ehem* personality.
Technically, anything that's exposed too far up the thigh gets censored. That Mai made *that* even more obvious was what led to CERO giving her the boot.

Seriously, thighs exposed near the, erm, sensitive parts really sets them off. Compare her to, say, Zero Suit Samus' alt, for instance.
 
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Here are the official art for shantae in her 5 games. Including the in game models. Also, she has changed after looking back the 18 years Shantae has continued to go forward.
Kinda funny how Shantae is essentially like KOF Athena Asamiya.
Always changing her appearance in each and every game. :p
 

Giga Man

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Personally, I've always felt like Risky's Revenge contained what should be (IMO) the 'universal' art direction for the Shantae series. With its 'anime, yet not TOO anime' aesthetic, If I'm being honest? I feel like Pirate's Curse went too far into the anime look and I'm not really a big fan of the chibi look she's been using since HGH.
I completely agree. Risky's Revenge was a natural evolution to the GBC original, and every iteration after has been drastically different.

Technically, anything that's exposed too far up the thigh gets censored. That Mai made *that* even more obvious was what led to CERO giving her the boot.

Seriously, thighs exposed near the, erm, sensitive parts really sets them off. Compare her to, say, Zero Suit Samus' alt, for instance.
The fact that Peach and the other princesses have a black void underneath their dresses is all you need to know. CERO literally asks the developers, "Could you show use all the female characters upside-down?"
 

etnoika

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Speaking of 3D models, by complete coincidence Youtube just happens to recommend me this old video about what a potential 3D Shantae game could look like in Unreal Engine. Tbh it doesn't look that good but for a fan made thing it's still dang impressive.
 

Dukefire

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Speaking of 3D models, by complete coincidence Youtube just happens to recommend me this old video about what a potential 3D Shantae game could look like in Unreal Engine. Tbh it doesn't look that good but for a fan made thing it's still dang impressive.
Her hair could use more work along with the appearance. The outfit is accurate to the artwork. For one person to build this model in UE4, it is impressive.
 
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I completely agree. Risky's Revenge was a natural evolution to the GBC original, and every iteration after has been drastically different.
Yeah. While I don't hate the games after Risky's Revenge or the art direction they use, I can't say that they feel like what her series should go with. If anything, I feel like Risky's Revenge was both a natural evolution of the original game's artstyle and what the series' artstyle should have stuck to. But that's just me.
 
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Yeah. While I don't hate the games after Risky's Revenge or the art direction they use, I can't say that they feel like what her series should go with. If anything, I feel like Risky's Revenge was both a natural evolution of the original game's artstyle and what the series' artstyle should have stuck to. But that's just me.
I guess you could say that they were really wanting to push a Japan influence so the audience from there could get into the series. Which seems to have worked so far, so one can't really argue with the results I guess. :drshrug:

Besides, seeing as they collaborated with Inti Creates for two games, it would have been a wee bit tough not to get influenced by them...

It's just hard to know what Matt gets to draw at all these days, if anything.
 
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Staarih

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Okay, this is kinda weird and borderline wrong imo, I can't imagine them having rights to use an image of Shantae like that (it's blatantly her!). But also kinda hilarious lol. WF should probably be contacted about this in any case haha.
 
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Okay, this is kinda weird and borderline wrong imo, I can't imagine them having rights to use an image of Shantae like that (it's blatantly her!). But also kinda hilarious lol. WF should probably be contacted about this in any case haha.
Stuff like this happens all the time with tiny little businesses like this (especially in AZ where people generally don't care to pay attention) I used to live in Phoenix and there was a tire shop with Warner Bros' Road Runner on their sign. Even the colors were the same, the only thing that was different was instead of feet it had wheels.

In the end, businesses generally don't care about tiny little things like this because the business infringing one the copyright isn't considered big enough to get the kind of exposure that would warrant legal action. Basically it's cheaper to just leave them be since them being around won't really cost you any money.
 
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Stuff like this happens all the time with tiny little businesses like this (especially in AZ where people generally don't care to pay attention) I used to live in Phoenix and there was a tire shop with Warner Bros' Road Runner on their sign. Even the colors were the same, the only thing that was different was instead of feet it had wheels.

In the end, businesses generally don't care about tiny little things like this because the business infringing one the copyright isn't considered big enough to get the kind of exposure that would warrant legal action. Basically it's cheaper to just leave them be since them being around won't really cost you any money.
Yeah and numerous high schools tend to slightly photoshop college sport team logos for themselves. It's a pretty common problem but I never expected to see Shantae picked for one of them haha.
 
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Yeah and numerous high schools tend to slightly photoshop college sport team logos for themselves. It's a pretty common problem but I never expected to see Shantae picked for one of them haha.
Seriously! Every school where the mascot is a bulldog has a design that is very loosely ripped off from Butch from the old Tom and Jerry shorts.
 

Shinuto

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So Question/Discusson Time:

Why did neither Shovel Knight, Cuphead, or Sans get in Smash at a true playable level?

Personally, I think the argument "It's because Nintendo doesn't view Indies as important enough" ignores much about their connections and support for indie gaming as a whole. All have made an impact with their success stories. Nintendo has been promoting indie titles for the better part of a decade now. Simple Eshop art at first but now we have full on directs focusing on them. We even had a crossover between the Crypt of the Necrodancer and Zelda.

These three are some of the most popular current indie titles. I personally think they weren't chosen due to being too recent. They have yet to cement themselves as long running popular series, for the most part they have one or 2 games to their name. I feel if one has to be chosen it has to be a character with decent popularity and has a legacy.

And the two indies I think fit that best are Reimu and Shantae. With Shantae fitting the best overall.
 
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So Question/Discusson Time:

Why did neither Shovel Knight, Cuphead, or Sans get in Smash at a true playable level?

Personally, I think the argument "It's because Nintendo doesn't view Indies as important enough" ignores much about their connections and support for indie gaming as a whole. All have made an impact with their success stories. Nintendo has been promoting indie titles for the better part of a decade now. Simple Eshop art at first but now we have full on directs focusing on them. We even had a crossover between the Crypt of the Necrodancer and Zelda.

These three are some of the most popular current indie titles. I personally think they weren't chosen due to being too recent. They have yet to cement themselves as long running popular series, for the most part they have one or 2 games to their name. I feel if one has to be chosen it has to be a character with decent popularity and has a legacy.

And the two indies I think fit that best are Reimu and Shantae. With Shantae fitting the best overall.
Don't forget about Quote. He is certainly the 3rd horse in this race.
 
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So Question/Discusson Time:

Why did neither Shovel Knight, Cuphead, or Sans get in Smash at a true playable level?

Personally, I think the argument "It's because Nintendo doesn't view Indies as important enough" ignores much about their connections and support for indie gaming as a whole. All have made an impact with their success stories. Nintendo has been promoting indie titles for the better part of a decade now. Simple Eshop art at first but now we have full on directs focusing on them. We even had a crossover between the Crypt of the Necrodancer and Zelda.

These three are some of the most popular current indie titles. I personally think they weren't chosen due to being too recent. They have yet to cement themselves as long running popular series, for the most part they have one or 2 games to their name. I feel if one has to be chosen it has to be a character with decent popularity and has a legacy.

And the two indies I think fit that best are Reimu and Shantae. With Shantae fitting the best overall.
I highly agree with the recency point. For Nintendo to include an indie character 1 of 2 possibilities come to mind:

1. An indie character is chosen to represent Nintendo's relationship with a particular company.

2. An indie character is chosen to represent Nintendo's strong relationship with indie developers.

With Reimu, yeah she's a popular character from a popular series, but Nintendo has never really worked with Team Shanghai Alice on games core to the Touhou series coming to a Nintendo platform. She doesn't represent Nintendo's relationship with indies, and unless they just want a Japanese cash grab she won't be chosen based on relationship with her parent company.

Quote has Nicalis to fall back on, but I can't see Nintendo coming up and saying: "We want to support our relationship with Nicalis." His other big negative is that he, like Shovel Knight, Sans, and Cuphead, only has one main game. Granted it's a really good game (good enough that Nicalis ports it to every Nintendo system ever), but I don't think it's good enough to justify his position as "the face of the nindies" like some think.

Shantae has a leg up over both of them in these categories. Yes, she may not be a household name in Japan or the West, but she's got legacy like Touhou and Cave Story, 5 games on Nintendo platforms, and Wayforward has multiple IPs and games all on the Switch. Hell, they've released more games for the Switch than ATLUS, and they got a character whose main game still hasn't made it to the Switch in Smash.

If Nintendo adds an indie to Smash and it isn't Shantae, I will be happy we finally get a playable indie, but ultimately disappointed because of how much Shantae has going for her.
 

Dukefire

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Not a lot of roadblocks left to stop Shantae, Geno and other spirits with skies as the limit. Only Sakurai, the Smash Team and the original creator are the ones to make the final call.

Shantae, there are those people still salvaging fan rules.
1. For Good Boys and Girls. We already know Mai's fighting style and clothing choice are the reason why she couldn't make it past CERO rating.
2. Indie can't be fighters since they are Mii Costumes and Assist Trophy. When does assuming mean the end for Indie Characters?

There may be more fan rules later on. Still, it is not over until Sakurai says it's over
 

logicandreason

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1. For Good Boys and Girls. We already know Mai's fighting style and clothing choice are the reason why she couldn't make it past CERO rating.
I think you mean lack of clothing choice. And we all know that doesnt apply to shantae since she's no more revealing than zss sports bra alt.
 

Dukefire

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I think you mean lack of clothing choice. And we all know that doesnt apply to shantae since she's no more revealing than zss sports bra alt.
That I can agree. Though, some people did argue for Mai having a more covering outfit in another KoF game. Of course, most people recognize her for the original outfit she had in over the years.
 

kevinthedot

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So Question/Discusson Time:
Why did neither Shovel Knight, Cuphead, or Sans get in Smash at a true playable level?
I'd say it's different for each of them.
For Sans, it's mainly cause his status as a meme precedes what he's meant to be. He shouldn't be a fighter, he's a punishment. The Sans fight was originally supposed to be a surprising brutal wall for those going down the Genocide path. Even Megalovania itself was meant to be a surprised treat since it's not even "Song that May Play When You Fight Sans" which was included in the Undertale OST to make the surprise hit that little bit more. I think if Sakurai truly wanted Sans to be the fighter, Toby wouldn't have given Sans' role and place in the game. That said, it was clearly in the public eye and a lot of people love Sans, so making him a Mii Costume with the song around the time Undertale came to Switch was just good marketing (even if it's still getting that spolier territory since he's got a Gaster Blaster for the skin).

Cuphead is more of an issue of scope. Sure, they can make the 3D model of him, but that sorta defeats the point. If they were to go with him fully, I imagine Sakurai'd want to keep the 2D aesthetic which would be really difficult. When you get into that kind of territory, the question rises if the difficulty would be worth the inclusion, and Cuphead, while popular, probably wouldn't have been worth it.

In both their cases, I also think there wasn't quite as much to work with as other characters as well, which also probably made them not as enticing.

Now Shovel Knight's a different story. Him alongside Shantae getting representation in the base game shows Sakurai recognizes the appeal of both. I think the only reason Shovel Knight got the AT position while Shantae has a better shot at getting the DLC one is simply luck and timing. Sakurai wanted to put Shovel Knight in to the point he made him an AT, but he didn't feel it worthy to make him a full fighter at the time.

Shantae only got in as a spirit cause I suppose they didn't even want to make her a model at that point. But now we're on the second DLC pass, after a huge outpouring of support for Shantae post-spirit appearance and spirits don't deconfirm. Also WF were in production of a new Shantae game around the time the second pass was being decided. Stars have sorta aligned in her favor from all this. If she gets in, now is actually a better chance then even back in base game. Still, it'll certainly take a lot of luck for her to make it through both Nintendo and Sakurai's pure whims to actually make the pass. All that's different now is that she's got a much better chance.
 

zferolie

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Who did you make your sig? I want to update my sigs look and I like your style

I said this in the RTC thread, but I think one of the biggest Pros in Shantaes favor is that she DOESN'Y work as a Mii costume, at all. A lot of top Indie contenders fit Mii costumes(Reimu and quote Gunner, The Knight Shovel Knight and Cadence as swordfighters, and Madeline as brawler) Because of that if Shantae was getting in she would have to be a playable fighter, where Nintendo or sakurai could just put other potential indies as mii costumes for representation
 
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