Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

Do you think shantae can make it?

  • Yes, as a fighter

  • Yes, as a assist trophy

  • No, not as a assist trophy

  • No, not at all


Results are only viewable after voting.

zferolie

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Velvet pfp = auto win.

From the little bit that I know about that thread, I won't bother looking since it's just a clusterf*** of bias from multiple people, and Shantae specifically being the current topic is bound to spawn fervent opposers.
its best to ignore them
 
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Not a lot of roadblocks left to stop Shantae, Geno and other spirits with skies as the limit. Only Sakurai, the Smash Team and the original creator are the ones to make the final call.

Shantae, there are those people still salvaging fan rules.
1. For Good Boys and Girls. We already know Mai's fighting style and clothing choice are the reason why she couldn't make it past CERO rating.
2. Indie can't be fighters since they are Mii Costumes and Assist Trophy. When does assuming mean the end for Indie Characters?

There may be more fan rules later on. Still, it is not over until Sakurai says it's over
Eventually it'll boil down to "because purple hair sucks" and thems gonna be fightin' words.
 
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From the little bit that I know about that thread, I won't bother looking since it's just a clusterf*** of bias from multiple people, and Shantae specifically being the current topic is bound to spawn fervent opposers.
Agreed.
Just looking at some of the posts is enough for me to lose some brain cells.

It's just a waste of time either way.
Whatever happens, happens.
 

kevinthedot

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1. For Good Boys and Girls. We already know Mai's fighting style and clothing choice are the reason why she couldn't make it past CERO rating.
I mean, it's also not like Nintendo's not above tweaking outfits of fighters to fit the ratings. They've already done that with others like Palutena. Mai's case I think is more that she would have been a background element and Sakurai didn't wanna bother tweaking/redesigning her outfit for that.
Back when the first DLC pass was being discussed, I argued a bit with some people about how her outfit affects her chances and put this together as a means to demonstrate how it's really not hard at all to tweak her clothes to be less rule breaking while not ruining the design of them.
shantae_outfit_tweaks.gif
 
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Velvet pfp = auto win.

From the little bit that I know about that thread, I won't bother looking since it's just a clusterf*** of bias from multiple people, and Shantae specifically being the current topic is bound to spawn fervent opposers.
In Comic Book Guy's voice: "Shantae isn't popular! There are BETTER Indies to choose from than her, and Shovel Knight is the much BETTER, much MORE SUCCESSFUL, much MORE POPULAR, and much BETTER CHARACTER than waifu genie girl."
 
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Dukefire

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I mean, it's also not like Nintendo's not above tweaking outfits of fighters to fit the ratings. They've already done that with others like Palutena. Mai's case I think is more that she would have been a background element and Sakurai didn't wanna bother tweaking/redesigning her outfit for that.
Back when the first DLC pass was being discussed, I argued a bit with some people about how her outfit affects her chances and put this together as a means to demonstrate how it's really not hard at all to tweak her clothes to be less rule breaking while not ruining the design of them.
Small change, but still sticking to her origins in Arabian culture. For my opinion, choice #2 is good.
 

zferolie

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I just had to make a huge rant on the rtc, getting sick and tired of people hating on her for no reasons, or because they are undertale fanboys who cant accept any other indie rep then their overhyped game
 

kevinthedot

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I just had to make a huge rant on the rtc, getting sick and tired of people hating on her for no reasons, or because they are undertale fanboys who cant accept any other indie rep then their overhyped game
As someone who adores Undertale, I don't understand why there's still Undertale fans that think it should have gotten a full fighter. Undertale's just not that kind of game. The core concept of it is the idea that violence isn't the only answer, so putting someone from it into a fighting game is already super off-putting. And even if they ignore that aspect of it, the overall charm and appeal of the game lies in the limited art and mechanics alongside the great character interactions. That stuff would be insanely hard to carry over to Smash. Sans' presence as a Mii Costume is more or less the extent it should go: a completely separated acknowledgment of the franchise and it's idea of letting people kinda put their own thoughts into it. Maybe could use some Spirit representation too, but overall it's really a terrible fit for Smash.
 
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zferolie

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As someone who adores Undertale, I don't understand why there's still Undertale fans that think it should have gotten a full fighter. Undertale's just not that kind of game. The core concept of it is the idea that violence isn't the only answer, so putting someone from it into a fighting game is already super off-putting. And even if they ignore that aspect of it, the overall charm and appeal of the game lies in the limited art and mechanics alongside the great character interactions. That stuff would be insanely hard to carry over to Smash. Sans' presence as a Mii Costume is more or less the extent it should go: a completely separated acknowledgment of the franchise and it's idea of letting people kinda put their own thoughts into it. Maybe could use some Spirit representation too, but overall it's really a terrible fit for Smash.
I really tried to get into Undertale, I just couldn't. I think I came in too late and I got way too over explosed and over hyped or something, as I just couldn't get into it.

But yeah I know its a great game, and them as a fighter, anyone from it, makes little sense and would be hard to fit while keeping undertales core gameplay and idea intact.
 
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Doesn't Deltarune make more sense anyhow? The demo for it makes the morality system moot this go-round.

That is, assuming the game eventually gets finished, haven't heard anything about it in a while...

Meanwhile, Inti Creates' characters keep getting ignored, even though they're indies too. Hell, Gunvolt is going on a third major installment.
 
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kevinthedot

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Hell, Gunvolt is going on a third major installment.
Yeah, a third installment where he's a side character in the game with his name on it. Which is hilarious.
I think the problem there is Gunvolt just sorta slides under the radar for most. More popular than say Dragon Marked For Death, but not nearly as high as the other contenders.
 

Shinuto

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HOLY **** GUYS..... OKAY REMEMBER THE MILK BOSATSU LEAK?!

DOESNT MIN MIN FIT THAT TO ********* T?!
 

Shinuto

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Even if it does match up, he claimed that a female fighter would be playable all the way back in December of 2018. There's no way Nintendo had already picked Min Min for a pass that didn't exist all the way back then.
Ah but Im also crack theory, there was speculation that the last characters of FP1 and the first character of FP2 were switched.
 
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Ah but Im also crack theory, there was speculation that the last characters of FP1 and the first character of FP2 were switched.
That is possible. I wonder what the reasoning for that would be other than a Fire Emblem character negatively affecting the sales of FP2.
 
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As someone who adores Undertale, I don't understand why there's still Undertale fans that think it should have gotten a full fighter. Undertale's just not that kind of game. The core concept of it is the idea that violence isn't the only answer, so putting someone from it into a fighting game is already super off-putting. And even if they ignore that aspect of it, the overall charm and appeal of the game lies in the limited art and mechanics alongside the great character interactions. That stuff would be insanely hard to carry over to Smash. Sans' presence as a Mii Costume is more or less the extent it should go: a completely separated acknowledgment of the franchise and it's idea of letting people kinda put their own thoughts into it. Maybe could use some Spirit representation too, but overall it's really a terrible fit for Smash.
Yeah, Undertale is all about empathy and non-violence. So having a full fighter for Undertale would be a massive disservice to the game itself.
The only character in the game, that I personally see as fighter-material, would be Undyne.

But I mostly cannot make sense ouf of the combat in that game.
Just how does the Shmup-gameplay translate into what the characters are actually doing?!
I mean characters like Toriel or Undyne are easy to figure out.
The former using fire magic and waves her hands to fire it, while the latter creates ice spears to shoot at you.
But all the other fights in the game, I can't for the life of me figure out what the characters are actually doing in combat.
So yeah, I can see why it'd be a doozey to make a Smash Fighter for Undertale.
 
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Maxie

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So Min Min is coming out very soon. I'm excited. Since she doesn't seem to like close range combat or fighters with high air speed, fighting her with Wario shouldn't be too hard.

As for tweaking Shantae's outfit for Smash, give her the Risky's Revenge pants, the vest from Pirate's Curse and make her chest size a bit smaller so her top covers it perfectly. Bam. Easy.

Since people are still using Mai as an example of her not making it in as a character because "Good Boys and Girls" Shantae's spirit is uncensored and if the "Good Boys and Girls" thing was an actual rule, Shantae wouldn't have even gotten a spirit at all.
 

GoldLiger

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I think based on Gameplay alone Shantae makes the most sense. She can be the character that returns the mechanic that was lost when Zelda and Sheik were made separate characters. The Transformation Mechanic. Shantae could be the character that will take that mechanic and be a lot more versatile with it.
 
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How many times do we have to keep bringing up that the reasons Mai most likely didn't get included have nothing to do with her boobs?

The Japanese ratings board have a habit of turning every female model in a game upside down to check for panty shots. If you recall, Mai wears a form of kunoichi dress that exposes both of her legs almost completely, and with how freeform the dress moves it could easily expose more. Doubling that on top of how inherently lewd she is personality-wise, it's no wonder Sakurai and his team didn't want to mess with that after the headaches they've had with CERO and Palutena.
https://sourcegaming.info/2015/09/18/cero-and-palutenas-censorship/

Shantae wears a form of bedlah attire, which depending on the art style can be slightly see through. She's never had a 3D model before, but considering that her games have never included sexual content or been rated anywhere near Adult in Japan, it's safe to say that Shantae's 2D sprite isn't enough to warrant any problems from CERO. I'd say just make her pants not see through at all and turn off the jiggle physics. There may not be a problem in the first place, and if there is it wouldn't be difficult to fix.
 
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How many times do we have to keep bringing up that the reasons Mai most likely didn't get included have nothing to do with her boobs?

The Japanese ratings board have a habit of turning every female model in a game upside down to check for panty shots. If you recall, Mai wears a form of kunoichi dress that exposes both of her legs almost completely, and with how freeform the dress moves it could easily expose more. Doubling that on top of how inherently lewd she is personality-wise, it's no wonder Sakurai and his team didn't want to mess with that after the headaches they've had with CERO and Palutena.
https://sourcegaming.info/2015/09/18/cero-and-palutenas-censorship/

Shantae wears a form of bedlah attire, which depending on the art style can be slightly see through. She's never had a 3D model before, but considering that her games have never included sexual content or been rated anywhere near Adult in Japan, it's safe to say that Shantae's 2D sprite isn't enough to warrant any problems from CERO. I'd say just make her pants not see through at all and turn off the jiggle physics. There may not be a problem in the first place, and if there is it wouldn't be difficult to fix.
We got that the first time.
Honestly, you're just wasting your time, if you repeat the same thing over and over again.
No matter how many times you do it, if people don't want to listen, then they won't listen.
Simple as that.

Which is why there is no point in reasoning with fools.
You could make the most logical statement ever, backed up by irrefutable evidence.
And even then, people will not listen.
 
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I think based on Gameplay alone Shantae makes the most sense. She can be the character that returns the mechanic that was lost when Zelda and Sheik were made separate characters. The Transformation Mechanic. Shantae could be the character that will take that mechanic and be a lot more versatile with it.
Pokemon Trainer does this already. I wouldn't want Shantae to try and emulate that with her comparatively move-limited forms.
 
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I just had to make a huge rant on the rtc, getting sick and tired of people hating on her for no reasons, or because they are undertale fanboys who cant accept any other indie rep then their overhyped game
I know people will think Isaac will be the next character to sit on the popularity throne after Geno get's in, but I kind of believe Shantae will be the one sitting on the popularity throne instead. I believe support for Shantae will skyrocket after Geno get's in as I met a lot of Geno supporters around the Internet that want Shantae as well. Of course, there are a lot of Geno supporters that will move on to support Isaac, but I feel like that will mainly be the older and JRPG crowds.
 

kevinthedot

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I think based on Gameplay alone Shantae makes the most sense. She can be the character that returns the mechanic that was lost when Zelda and Sheik were made separate characters. The Transformation Mechanic. Shantae could be the character that will take that mechanic and be a lot more versatile with it.
Pokemon Trainer does this already. I wouldn't want Shantae to try and emulate that with her comparatively move-limited forms.
Yeah, I agree that Shantae should have transformations but it shouldn't be like Zelda/Shiek. Her transformations should be more like Game & Watch in implementation: Shantae transforming single attacks before returning to her regular shape. Which is how they did her new transformations in Seven Sirens.

Gameplay-wise, I think Shantae would be a rushdown with most of her neutrals, with some either more damaging or mobility specials built around transformations/spells/items, and then give her slower but harder hitting smash attacks based on her transformations as well.
So like letting her get in with dash newt/monkey side B, rack up damage with lots of combo-ing hair whips and dancing tilts, then finish off with a side smash elephant ram.
 
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I know people will think Isaac will be the next character to sit on the popularity throne after Geno get's in, but I kind of believe Shantae will be the one sitting on the popularity throne instead. I believe support for Shantae will skyrocket after Geno get's in as I met a lot of Geno supporters around the Internet that want Shantae as well. Of course, there are a lot of Geno supporters that will move on to support Isaac, but I feel like that will mainly be the older and JRPG crowds.
Unfortunately I can't see that happening. Rayman will probably be the next one if Geno gets in first. Sora has been super popular the entire DLC cycle as well, and Crash is up there too. People keep overlooking Shantae just because she's indie and they will continue to do so until she finally proves them wrong.
 

Dukefire

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Yeah, the Indie status is what people keeps bring up to laugh her and other Indie character's chances off. So, it is one of the few hurdles left fans are still trying to enforcing as a rule.
 
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Yeah, I agree that Shantae should have transformations but it shouldn't be like Zelda/Shiek. Her transformations should be more like Game & Watch in implementation: Shantae transforming single attacks before returning to her regular shape. Which is how they did her new transformations in Seven Sirens.

Gameplay-wise, I think Shantae would be a rushdown with most of her neutrals, with some either more damaging or mobility specials built around transformations/spells/items, and then give her slower but harder hitting smash attacks based on her transformations as well.
So like letting her get in with dash newt/monkey side B, rack up damage with lots of combo-ing hair whips and dancing tilts, then finish off with a side smash elephant ram.
There are problems with this extreme too, though. Namely that with now 4-5 games of material to pull from, balancing them ad Shantae's character out across a standard number of moves could be really tricky. That's why I advocate the fluid transformations, paired with a dancing stance move that alters which transformations are used in different contexts.
 

GoldLiger

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Pokemon Trainer does this already. I wouldn't want Shantae to try and emulate that with her comparatively move-limited forms.
No, the Pokemon Trainer has a rotation mechanic that switches between 3 Pokemon. You can't CHOOSE which Pokemon to switch to. You can only go "Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard rinse and repeat" in that order. Shantae's transformation mechanic would be all player based as in YOU can choose what form she takes in at ANY time during battle. While Seven Sirens introduce short cut transformations it's not the core of Shantae's character mechanics. That is why if Sakurai is going to choose her then she would be as close to how she debuted gameplay wise. The ability to transform to a select form at anytime is what I am saying will happen.

EDIT: Also the forms they use will be the most iconic to the character herself. So you know one form which is the monkey form. The others will be based on the need. Does she need an extra jump to reach high places then the Harpy form or a tank then the Elephant. Things like that.
 
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No, the Pokemon Trainer has a rotation mechanic that switches between 3 Pokemon. You can't CHOOSE which Pokemon to switch to. You can only go "Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard rinse and repeat" in that order. Shantae's transformation mechanic would be all player based as in YOU can choose what form she takes in at ANY time during battle. While Seven Sirens introduce short cut transformations it's not the core of Shantae's character mechanics. That is why if Sakurai is going to choose her then she would be as close to how she debuted gameplay wise. The ability to transform to a select form at anytime is what I am saying will happen.

EDIT: Also the forms they use will be the most iconic to the character herself. So you know one form which is the monkey form. The others will be based on the need. Does she need an extra jump to reach high places then the Harpy form or a tank then the Elephant. Things like that.
Well, you never really made a choice between multiple forms with Zelda and Sheik either (it's still a rotation, just with two instead of three), so I'm not exactly sure how that comparison works.

Shantae's spirit battle having her use a sword and a gun-wielding fighter to accompany transformative items implies the devs do not see iconic things the way you do.
 
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Yeah, I agree that Shantae should have transformations but it shouldn't be like Zelda/Shiek. Her transformations should be more like Game & Watch in implementation: Shantae transforming single attacks before returning to her regular shape. Which is how they did her new transformations in Seven Sirens.
Yeah, this is what I'd like for Shantae's gameplay style to be like, as well.
 
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