Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[shinhed-echi]

Are we talking Shantae crossover possibilities?

Cause I wold LOOOOOOOOOOOVE a Shantae x Kid Icarus crossover.
Thinking about the similarities:

- Both have very entertaining voice acting (they even have similar dialogue screens, the interaction would be flawless)
- Both are supernatural beings, but there's something limiting their full potential (like Pit being an angel who can't fly on his own, or Shantae being a Half Genie).
- Both being really possitive, and just entertaining to watch. Plus I feel that they would make an excellent duo.
- They both love a good hot spring bath.
:D


Also... to think how much more lively Wayforward could make the already lively Kid Icarus cast.

(I can totally picture Dark Pit tempted by Risky Boots' lifestyle too).

 

[meleebrawler]

Those two would probably be really wholesome together. Two good beans.

I don't think she was oblivious. She has been kinda hateful and disappointed in Risky before that. She just doesn't see her as a threat then and points out that she would much rather be buddies than enemies.

So how do you guys think Shantae would play?
I'm guessing either zoner or bait and punish, but with her extensive list of moves it's hard to know. At least her back roll animation would probably be the backdash from Risky's Revenge.

More of a flexible all-rounder like Banjo & Kazooie. They have the tools to play in a variety of ways and so does Shantae, even if neither truly excels in any of them. She might lean a bit more towards speed and combos, though.

shinhed-echi That crossover idea used to be my favourite, but has since fallen to second in favour of Super Mario. The potential for comedy writing is there for Kid Icarus, but the issue lies in the huge power gap between the rosters. I don't really see how the Shantae gang can keep up with all the gods in Kid Icarus.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Platform Gals

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[SoupCanMafia]

I'm gonna be making a Smash Speculation Guess Who game
I just need to find a lot of characters to fill in the 24 cards.

 

[Morning Raven]

They should've called it an Arachne transformation. They also goofed up with the Harpy uhh..."Talon" in HGH.

It's weird seeing these kinds of mistakes in games that started out with English scripts to begin with.

I prefer using accurate names if available. So OG spider was the obvious spider and we get to officially welcome a new myth transformation since HGH spider works so differently.

Plus I really wish the HGH harpy used a "harpy feather dagger" item because the original feature Talon swipes. Really I liked attacking with those best, but I'd take the HGH stationed in mid-air update with the swipe for the best version.

I'm gonna be making a Smash Speculation Guess Who game
I just need to find a lot of characters to fill in the 24 cards.

Im thinking more of a bingo card. But start with the Sabi/Verge list, Master Chief and the higher speculated spirits and ATs. That should fill it up well.

 

[zferolie]

Platform Gals

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played a majority of those games, just not Gris, Dandara, or Momodora. I assume they are just as great as the rest?

Man who says the game industry doesn't have some star femalkes?

 

[meleebrawler]

I prefer using accurate names if available. So OG spider was the obvious spider and we get to officially welcome a new myth transformation since HGH spider works so differently.

Plus I really wish the HGH harpy used a "harpy feather dagger" item because the original feature Talon swipes. Really I liked attacking with those best, but I'd take the HGH stationed in mid-air update with the swipe for the best version.

Those old moves worked well in the classic with the really close-up zoom and when enemies used to flinch every time they were hit. Not so much in Half-Genie Hero where most don't. Let me tell you, it is really hard to attack stuff with Elephant and not get hurt in retaliation, especially in hardcore mode. And how about that mouse bite that's only good for an achievement in some versions of the game?

 

[MeteoRain]

So how do you guys think Shantae would play?
I'm guessing either zoner or bait and punish, but with her extensive list of moves it's hard to know. At least her back roll animation would probably be the backdash from Risky's Revenge.

I'm not entirely sure. She has transformations and spells at her disposal, but people often simply forget she's a nimble dancer with a fast disjointed weapon growing out the back of her head.

Ultimately it largely depends on what's emphasized, or whatever the community finds to be the most successful approach to winning.

 

[Morning Raven]

Those old moves worked well in the classic with the really close-up zoom and when enemies used to flinch every time they were hit. Not so much in Half-Genie Hero where most don't. Let me tell you, it is really hard to attack stuff with Elephant and not get hurt in retaliation, especially in hardcore mode. And how about that mouse bite that's only good for an achievement in some versions of the game?

The mouse is more of a mini game than a transformation. HGH was trying to test out ideas when they could, for better or worse.

And that's why I mentioned the extra aerial control but with the talon swipe. The harpy should be slippery on the ground but have great air control. And it's not like you cant just buff it by extending the swipe range using a directional slash line. That would make up for games being more zoomed out.

Also not sure what you mean by multiple old moves working better zoomed in. It's not any different than performing an attack in smash while on the other side of the stage as other fighters, you can see it. Only really large maps struggle visually with that. But none of the animal transformations have moves that wouldn't work zoomed out some. And the exaggerated animations would make the fighting moves look fine.

I can agree in the flinching. I don't think I could envision making the upper into drill kicks work in the present games if the enemy didn't flinch long enough to land. The elbow dash and tiara twirl I think fit fine though. Just use a different command than the button charge, whether or not the Nair like Tiara Twirl combos after it.

So how do you guys think Shantae would play?
I'm guessing either zoner or bait and punish, but with her extensive list of moves it's hard to know. At least her back roll animation would probably be the backdash from Risky's Revenge.

Whatever the general all around player is called, whose got some zoning, but some strong close range options. At least for a starting point.

And PC kick should be strong attack with Tiara twirl for Nair. Back dash obviously her roll. Rest of the OG fighter moves should at least be considered if not used.

 

[MilkCalf]

I honestly think that Half-Genie Hero was the weakest and least structured game. Yes worse than Risky's Revenge's backtracking. And personally also not a big fan of the new art style.

 

[MeteoRain]

I honestly think that Half-Genie Hero was the weakest and least structured game. Yes worse than Risky's Revenge's backtracking. And personally also not a big fan of the new art style.

Agreed, although my problem with Risky's Revenge wasn't backtracking. It was simply how short it was.

As for the HGH artstyle, it's not so much the artstyle itself but the choice in graphics. I think they should have stuck with pixels or try going full 3D action adventure with cel shading, as it currently sits it looks a tad too mobile for my taste. That might just be me though.

 

[MilkCalf]

Agreed, although my problem with Risky's Revenge wasn't backtracking. It was simply how short it was.

As for the HGH artstyle, it's not so much the artstyle itself but the choice in graphics. I think they should have stuck with pixels or try going 3D action adventure with cel shading, as it currently sits it looks a tad too mobile for my taste. That's might just be me though.

Mobile is a good description. It looks chaotic. Like different models were just copy pasted with little regard for overall cohesion. And there's a distinct lack of lighting and shading from what I remember. I also think it often kinda pops out with 2D models and 3D world. Like Paper Mario but obviously more accidentally and awkwardly. But I can understand that a new style is hard to get right first try. Indivisible actually seemingly does right what it does wrong from the little I've seen of it.

 

[Morning Raven]

Mobile is a good description. It looks chaotic. Like different models were just copy pasted with little regard for overall cohesion. And there's a distinct lack of lighting and shading from what I remember. I also think it often kinda pops out with 2D models and 3D world. Like Paper Mario but obviously more accidentally and awkwardly. But I can understand that a new style is hard to get right first try. Indivisible actually seemingly does right what it does wrong from the little I've seen of it.

It's at least still a good game if the weakest shantae game. And backtracking is less annoying when you plan ahead for it and make use of the warping, instead of going back every time you think of it.

Luckily, Seven Sirens is going back to full 2D, which will please most of the fanbase really.

 

[ChadTR]

The more I play the games and think hard about it, the more I think the best game in the series remains the first one on GBC. It was a little rough, lacked polish and was pretty hard. But it was groundbreaking for its time and system. The Pirate's Curse is a great metroidvania, and probably the best point of entry in the series, but it doesn't feel as revolutionary, especially since its gameplay is more traditional. Maybe that's only me though Of course, I love the Shantae series no matter what and I'm glad it's still cruising in the 2020s.

 

[MilkCalf]

It's at least still a good game if the weakest shantae game. And backtracking is less annoying when you plan ahead for it and make use of the warping, instead of going back every time you think of it.

Yeah I can't hate HGH. It's still the same Shantae goodness at heart.

Luckily, Seven Sirens is going back to full 2D, which will please most of the fanbase really.

OH! That's why I looked at the images and thought something was amiss. Now it makes sense and feels right.

The more I play the games and think hard about it, the more I think the best game in the series remains the first one on GBC. It was a little rough, lacked polish and was pretty hard. But it was groundbreaking for its time and system. The Pirate's Curse is a great metroidvania, and probably the best point of entry in the series, but it doesn't feel as revolutionary, especially since its gameplay is more traditional. Maybe that's only me though Of course, I love the Shantae series no matter what and I'm glad it's still cruising in the 2020s.

YEah it's pretty good and unique. It brought some things to the table other games forgot about. Had probably the most fun attacks, like the dive attack, and showed areas of the island we've since never visited. Not to mention the zombie caravan that you had to actually find.

 

[shinhed-echi]

shinhed-echi That crossover idea used to be my favourite, but has since fallen to second in favour of Super Mario. The potential for comedy writing is there for Kid Icarus, but the issue lies in the huge power gap between the rosters. I don't really see how the Shantae gang can keep up with all the gods in Kid Icarus.

Well against the whole roster of gods, yes.
But nerfing Pit shouldn’t be a problem. He could start out as he did on the nes title. (Heck, or use the power levels according to the 8-bit games).

But Mario is a great choice too.

[Reads everything regarding HGH]

... I don’t think the art style is all that bad, tbh?
It looks stunning to me.
Also, I love when they look more like cartoons. No disrespect to PixelArt, I love it too, and Wayforward is damn good at it. But I just hate the stigma that if a game has a Ducktales Remastered look its automatically categorized as “mobile-looking”. Or in the past “looks like a flash game”.

Good call on Risky’s Revenge though. I was tempted to fork over $11 for it on 3DS, but I guess I’ll stick to the steam version with its impossible to configure gamepad feature. It cost a buck, so I’m not complaining anymore.

 

[meleebrawler]

The more I play the games and think hard about it, the more I think the best game in the series remains the first one on GBC. It was a little rough, lacked polish and was pretty hard. But it was groundbreaking for its time and system. The Pirate's Curse is a great metroidvania, and probably the best point of entry in the series, but it doesn't feel as revolutionary, especially since its gameplay is more traditional. Maybe that's only me though Of course, I love the Shantae series no matter what and I'm glad it's still cruising in the 2020s.

Demon's Crest kind of did a lot of similar things to the first Shantae, minus being one big map. I would mostly credit the original for setting the style and being a technical marvel, but as a game I'm not tempted to go back to it.

I find it hard to directly compare HGH to the rest as it feels very different. It's easier to like if you don't view it as a metroidvania at all. It's also kind of like how Kirby Star Allies was received at first, many people slammed the main campaign for being too easy and streamlined compared to past games, but then more characters and modes came and it was discovered how fun speedrunning with them was. The DLC campaigns of HGH play to the level's strengths more, and not only did I play it more than Pirate's Curse, I was having more fun gunning for the special endings than I ever would have in others.

Wayforward, please stop making shop items count for 100% completion so that I have to powergrind gems, OK?

 

[Planet Cool]

I honestly think that Half-Genie Hero was the weakest and least structured game. Yes worse than Risky's Revenge's backtracking. And personally also not a big fan of the new art style.

HGH was my first Shantae game and I liked it a lot. The only thing I don't like is the mishmash of 2D sprites and 3D geometry. WayForward did that in DuckTales Remastered and it looked like garbage there too. I'm glad Seven Sirens is going fully 2D.

I'm playing Pirate's Curse now.

 

[MeteoRain]

The more I play the games and think hard about it, the more I think the best game in the series remains the first one on GBC. It was a little rough, lacked polish and was pretty hard. But it was groundbreaking for its time and system. The Pirate's Curse is a great metroidvania, and probably the best point of entry in the series, but it doesn't feel as revolutionary, especially since its gameplay is more traditional. Maybe that's only me though Of course, I love the Shantae series no matter what and I'm glad it's still cruising in the 2020s.

This is why I hope Nintendo plans on bringing Game Boy (Color) games to Nintendo Switch Online and WayForward let's them add Shantae to the initial list.

That would help rake in a lot more exposure, fans, and even bolster support if she's not in Smash yet.

That probably won't happen though, because it would be too smart of a move on both ends of that negotiation.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So how do you guys think Shantae would play?
I'm guessing either zoner or bait and punish, but with her extensive list of moves it's hard to know. At least her back roll animation would probably be the backdash from Risky's Revenge.

Shantae would definitely be a bait and punish type of character. Some of her Specials especially her Elephant head bash or stomp would probably be some of the strongest Specials in the game.

I honestly think that Half-Genie Hero was the weakest and least structured game. Yes worse than Risky's Revenge's backtracking. And personally also not a big fan of the new art style.

I agree that Half-Genie Hero is the weakest game in the series thus far. I also wasn't that big of a fan of the art style in HGH either. I honestly prefer the art style in Pirate's Curse which, I thought had the best artwork in the series.

 

[Wademan94]

I think PC’s artstyle is fine enough, I just think the anime-esque aesthetic is a bit overdone. I personally prefer HGH’s artstyle because it feels a lot more vibrant and expressive, especially the colors and eyes and there’s a lot less disparity between the sprites and the ingame artwork. It also feels like a modern take on Matt Bozon’s original artstyle and I think it just fits the series tone quite well. I can see why people would be upset with the stylization so I’m not gonna fault you for saying otherwise.

I think the gameplay was fine enough for what it was trying to do, like having a more Ducktales/Mega Man style, but I am glad it’s going back to it’s Metroidvania roots.

 

[meleebrawler]

I think PC’s artstyle is fine enough, I just think the anime-esque aesthetic is a bit overdone. I personally prefer HGH’s artstyle because it feels a lot more vibrant and expressive, especially the colors and eyes and there’s a lot less disparity between the sprites and the ingame artwork. It also feels like a modern take on Matt Bozon’s original artstyle and I think it just fits the series tone quite well. I can see why people would be upset with the stylization so I’m not gonna fault you for saying otherwise.

I think the gameplay was fine enough for what it was trying to do, like having a more Ducktales/Mega Man style, but I am glad it’s going back to it’s Metroidvania roots.

HGH's biggest mistake is structuring the main campaign like it still is a metroidvania. The result is a lot of inelegant forced backtracking, alleviated only by the warp dance and is especially noticeable on blind playthroughs. The later areas of Pirate's Curse actually kind of suffer from this too, being effectively long stretches of flat ground filled with enemies and little in the way of exploration, making them tedious to work through with the relative lack of fast-travel. Hopefully Seven Sirens maintains varied terrain and level design throughout, especially verticality.

Pirate Queen's Quest and the rest of the DLC modes play like the game it was truly meant to be.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

In my book, the artstyles from the first two games are still the best and most unique of them all.
Pirate's Curse is more anime-like and Half-Genie Hero and Seven Sirens more chibi-like.

 

[Wademan94]

In my book, the artstyles from the first two games are still the best and most unique of them all.

Uh, yep...

unique...

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Uh, yep...
View attachment 255877
unique...
View attachment 255878

And what is your point?
Got a problem with what I've said? -_-

 

[Wademan94]

And what is your point?
Got a problem with what I've said? -_-

Just saying.

Toothpick waists and derp faces.

 

[meleebrawler]

Uh, yep...
View attachment 255877
unique...
View attachment 255878

It's more of a Disney/Sailor Moon anime type style.

There's something to like in every style but a cuter, rounded and more expressive Shantae just seems to fit the character more.

Ocean-blue eyes are a subtle thing that represents both the world Shantae lives in and the elements at her disposal, in tandem with the rest of her attire. And they are the mark of a hero.

Spoiler

by kockatrice_king of aminoapps.com

 

[Jorichi]

I definitely like HGH's artstyle the most. To me it just fits the whole tone of writing and characters the best. Colorfull, playfull and energetic.
HGH was actually one of the biggest influences in my own artstyle.
But when it comes to Shantae, I see a kind of charm in her changing artstyle. The character-design is really strong and all the characters lend themselves really well to different artstyles. I'd personally encourage them to try different styles and explore the possibilities. They all look great to me though, but with strengths in different places.
They'll eventually find their signature artstyle, which would cut out the fun of wondering what kind of style we could see Shantae next... But whenever that becomes the case we'll always have the awesome fanart!

 

[Wademan94]

HGH's biggest mistake is structuring the main campaign like it still is a metroidvania. The result is a lot of inelegant forced backtracking, alleviated only by the warp dance and is especially noticeable on blind playthroughs. The later areas of Pirate's Curse actually kind of suffer from this too, being effectively long stretches of flat ground filled with enemies and little in the way of exploration, making them tedious to work through with the relative lack of fast-travel. Hopefully Seven Sirens maintains varied terrain and level design throughout, especially verticality.

Pirate Queen's Quest and the rest of the DLC modes play like the game it was truly meant to be.

Yeah I can see where this is coming from. I do hope they tone down the repetitive backtracking

Ocean-blue eyes are a subtle thing that represents both the world Shantae lives in and the elements at her disposal, in tandem with the rest of her attire.

I was more noting the Derp face than the eyes.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Just saying.

Toothpick waists and derp faces.

Again, what is your point?

 

[Wademan94]

Again, what is your point?

Nothing really. Just putting that out there.

 

[meleebrawler]

I was more noting the Derp face than the eyes.

I know, the eyes are just my personal point of fascination so I get slightly disappointed when they're de-emphasized, like in the original and Half-Genie Hero (it's there but you have to squint to see it). Luckily Seven Sirens has made them more vibrant than ever.

The elements Shantae has manipulated with spells over the years have been fire (red clothes), lightning (gold headdresses/bracers) and water (blue eyes).

 

[Wademan94]

I think we can at least all agree that Sky and Bolo’s outfits are better from PC onward though.

 

[meleebrawler]

I definitely like HGH's artstyle the most. To me it just fits the whole tone of writing and characters the best. Colorfull, playfull and energetic.
HGH was actually one of the biggest influences in my own artstyle.
But when it comes to Shantae, I see a kind of charm in her changing artstyle. The character-design is really strong and all the characters lend themselves really well to different artstyles. I'd personally encourage them to try different styles and explore the possibilities. They all look great to me though, but with strengths in different places.
They'll eventually find their signature artstyle, which would cut out the fun of wondering what kind of style we could see Shantae next... But whenever that becomes the case we'll always have the awesome fanart!

It's also fun to look at the changes in style characters have gone through in Smash's history, most noticeable with Pokemon, Zelda, Star Fox franchises and Bowser.

Edit: One last fun thing you could do with the eyes is masking a reveal. By having her appear in a form unused in any Shantae game, possibly even something from another game entirely. Like a Rathian, and you'd only know it was Shantae once she turns around and you see those ocean-blue eyes.

 

[Morning Raven]

Yeah it's pretty good and unique. It brought some things to the table other games forgot about. Had probably the most fun attacks, like the dive attack, and showed areas of the island we've since never visited. Not to mention the zombie caravan that you had to actually find.

Actually, quite a few areas not seen since the first game, appeared in the concept arts for HGH, like they were testing the direction using them. So they do remember them and might decide to return to them if logical.

... I don’t think the art style is all that bad, tbh?
It looks stunning to me.
Also, I love when they look more like cartoons. No disrespect to PixelArt, I love it too, and Wayforward is damn good at it. But I just hate the stigma that if a game has a Ducktales Remastered look its automatically categorized as “mobile-looking”. Or in the past “looks like a flash game”.

Good call on Risky’s Revenge though. I was tempted to fork over $11 for it on 3DS, but I guess I’ll stick to the steam version with its impossible to configure gamepad feature. It cost a buck, so I’m not complaining anymore.

HGH does look good. It's just sometimes hard to mentally see both old Shantae and current Shantae. But really it feels like a similar case to Wind Waker to me.

As for Risky's Revenge, you need to do 2 things for proper button functionality. You need separate buttons for menu "confirm" and "back". Can't be the normal ones set to jump etc. And you need to set the analog stick to the directions as if using buttons. The game can only register basic "move right" for the buttons and not diagonal like stuff. At least for inputs. Once you do that it will move like normal.

This is why I hope Nintendo plans on bringing Game Boy (Color) games to Nintendo Switch Online and WayForward let's them add Shantae to the initial list.

That would help rake in a lot more exposure, fans, and even bolster support if she's not in Smash yet.

That probably won't happen though, because it would be too smart of a move on both ends of that negotiation.

Or just remake it. Extend her ponytail hit box a little. Improve the warping system and make the squid babies earn you something else.

The game honestly needs to be redone somehow to get more accessibility. I'm really sick of how many fans use Pirate's Curse as a main means of identity for the series, and never played/watched let's plays of the original. Most just ignore it even when most of the music was redone into the themes everyone knows.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

It's also fun to look at the changes in style characters have gone through in Smash's history, most noticeable with Pokemon, Zelda, Star Fox franchises and Bowser.

Especially Bowser. Bowser in Smash 4/Ultimate feels almost like a completely different character from Bowser in Melee/Brawl. Yes, Bowser's moves are the same, but it feels different between Melee/Brawl and Smash 4/Ultimate. I think the big obvious difference is Bowser standing up straight and running like he is in a race in Smash 4/Ultimate instead of standing up hunchbacked and crawling running in Melee/Brawl.

This big change here led me to playing and maining Bowser. Back in Melee and Brawl, I barely touched him at all because of how slow he was.

 

[meleebrawler]

Or just remake it. Extend her ponytail hit box a little. Improve the warping system and make the squid babies earn you something else.

The game honestly needs to be redone somehow to get more accessibility. I'm really sick of how many fans use Pirate's Curse as a main means of identity for the series, and never played/watched let's plays of the original. Most just ignore it even when most of the music was redone into the themes everyone knows.

Oooh, I doubt they'd stop at mere tweaks if they were ever to return to the original. There are many, many things that would have to be changed to bring the game up to modern standards, such that addressing them would effectively be making a new game from the ground up. I'm not even sure they'll keep the old dancing method if they deem that fans prefer Pirate's Curse/Seven Sirens methods of transforming and movement. Just... giving the game the Zero Mission treatment you know? Maybe they'll include the unaltered original as a bonus, but either way I doubt a potential remake would ever feel the same.

From what I can tell, the NES Metroid is not particularly well-regarded these days, even by fans of the series, who seem to only recommend the game as a historical curiosity more than anything else. Just like we do not speak of Street Fighter 1. Sometimes first games in series are neglected for a reason.

 

[zferolie]

So think this week we will get a direct?

 

[ChadTR]

So think this week we will get a direct?

When would it be announced, at the latest?

 

[meleebrawler]

So think this week we will get a direct?

https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2020...n-now-be-pre-purchased-nintendo-switch-eshop/

Who knows, but it looks like we're coming into the home stretch.