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Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

Do you think shantae can make it?

  • Yes, as a fighter

  • Yes, as a assist trophy

  • No, not as a assist trophy

  • No, not at all


Results are only viewable after voting.

Teeb147

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Honestly, I want to see proof, that clearly proves Sakurai's words wrong.
Otherwise, I see no reason to accuse Sakurai of lying or twisting words.
Here's the interview:
https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2019...out-because-masahiro-sakurai-loved-persona-5/

"Joker will participate in Super Smash Bros. mainly because of the invitation from Sora Ltd.'s Masahiro Sakurai," said Hiraoka. "That is what led to this collaboration. Because Mr. Sakurai likes Persona 5 very much, and I personally like Super Smash Bros. a lot, my first thought when I received the invitation was 'Great!' I was very happy to establish a relationship for this collaboration."
 

Paragon-Yoshi

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Here's the interview:
https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2019...out-because-masahiro-sakurai-loved-persona-5/

"Joker will participate in Super Smash Bros. mainly because of the invitation from Sora Ltd.'s Masahiro Sakurai," said Hiraoka. "That is what led to this collaboration. Because Mr. Sakurai likes Persona 5 very much, and I personally like Super Smash Bros. a lot, my first thought when I received the invitation was 'Great!' I was very happy to establish a relationship for this collaboration."
Which doesn't disprove his earlier words at all.

Again, Joker could've been one of the characters Nintendo chose.
And Sakurai jumped at the opportunity, since he loved the character.

Also, it could've been "sweet talk into cooperation".


So again, no clear evidence exists that disproves the tweet.
Nintendo choosing a character and Sakurai loving a character are not mutually exclusive.
 

Teeb147

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Which doesn't disprove his earlier words at all.

Again, Joker could've been one of the characters Nintendo chose.
And Sakurai jumped at the opportunity, since he loved the character.

Also, it could've been "sweet talk into cooperation".


So again, no clear evidence exists that disproves the tweet.
Nintendo choosing a character and Sakurai loving a character are not mutually exclusive.
It contradicts what he said because it would mean that it was sakurai's selection, not nintendo.
They say it's what led to the collaboration.

But anyway, im not invested enough to argue with you, just showing you what smashers have seen and why some might think that it's not just nintendo's choosing
 
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Dukefire

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Again, the main focus for the E3 Smash Fighters Pass discussion spotlight are Banjo & Kazooie and Erdrick.

So, it will be a surprise and/or disappointment to some if another character does enter under people's radar.
 

Paragon-Yoshi

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It contradicts what he said because it would mean that it was sakurai's selection, not nintendo.
They say it's what led to the collaboration.
Of course, that's their side of the story.
And it's probably what Sakurai told them.

Nevertheless, this doesn't disprove the notion of Nintendo giving him a selection of characters.
 

Teeb147

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Of course, that's their side of the story.
And it's probably what Sakurai told them.

Nevertheless, this doesn't disprove the notion of Nintendo giving him a selection of characters.
Well, whether he told them that or told us the tweet, it still says that sakurai isn't 100% honest in one way or another.

It isn't always about proving or disproving. But i dont think people necessarily believe he's lying or anything, just weary about it being only nintendo's selection.
There's nothing to disprove it either side, so like always it's a bit open. You can treat it as the tweet being fully truthful if you want, but others might have their own way of thinking about it too. Personally im on the fence, i think it's probably true for the most part but that he still has a large part in it.
 

Shinuto

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It contradicts what he said because it would mean that it was sakurai's selection, not nintendo.
They say it's what led to the collaboration.

But anyway, im not invested enough to argue with you, just showing you what smashers have seen and why some might think that it's not just nintendo's choosing
He selected Joker from likely a huge list of characters that were selected by Nintendo.

"We've selected these 40, Sakurai please selecte from them 5 for the Fighter Pass"
 

Teeb147

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He selected Joker from likely a huge list of characters that were selected by Nintendo.

"We've selected these 40, Sakurai please selecte from them 5 for the Fighter Pass"
That's what some people think. The tweet sounded more like he was just deciding if the picks were realizable or not, but it might be more like that (just a list for him to choose from)
 

Dukefire

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I do want to add that Joker did enter was for him talking with altas (of course) and the beginning Menu for Smash Ultimate is based off of Persona 5's menu layout.
 

meleebrawler

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There's no real point trying to unravel the decision process. All the parties involved are known to be unpredictable. What we do know is how Smash 4 was developed with the assumption no DLC would be made for it (Mewtwo and Lucas trophies), and given Sakurai's recent words on his thoughts of DLC, that method is unlikely to have changed much for Ultimate.

Moving to something Shantae-related, just because Wayforward themselves won't be appearing doesn't mean their game(s) won't. I see Nintendo as the most likely to reveal 5 proper, but Microsoft could also surprise.
 

Shinuto

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There's no real point trying to unravel the decision process. All the parties involved are known to be unpredictable. What we do know is how Smash 4 was developed with the assumption no DLC would be made for it (Mewtwo and Lucas trophies), and given Sakurai's recent words on his thoughts of DLC, that method is unlikely to have changed much for Ultimate.

Moving to something Shantae-related, just because Wayforward themselves won't be appearing doesn't mean their game(s) won't. I see Nintendo as the most likely to reveal 5 proper, but Microsoft could also surprise.
Whaat? Microsoft doesn't have any connection or care to focus on Shantae.
 

Wademan94

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I dunno why people are trying to find logic in the DLC characters and how they were chosen,

We only know 2 DLC characters, PP and Joker, 2 points of data is not enough to form a pattern, and thats assuming there IS a pattern.

Our efforts in this board should of shifted the moment the DLC 5 were seemingly put in stone, We should all be focusing on doing our part in making Shantae a more recognizable name in the general gaming knowledge. Instead every time i come back its just people talking about "Leaks" and arguiing the mind of a known troll (Sakurai)
 

Paragon-Yoshi

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No one is trying to unravel the mysteries of the DLC Selection Process.
Since only Nintendo and Sakurai are privy to that knowledge.
Only them opening up would solve this... which they won't.


All I'm trying to say is: Don't accuse Sakurai of foul play without clear, decisive evidence.
And what little evidence was presented here, is flimsy at best.

Enough said.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I was always thinking Nintendo and Sakurai chose the DLC more as a team instead of one as a "give a list", but who knows what's really going on.

----------------

I was at work, so I couldn't really reply well earlier.

GoldLiger GoldLiger We knew he was already worked on since September(if not earlier. I think this is where the datamine was of the game, having September-related files? It might've been October or even August. September is what I remember the most). This doesn't prove he was meant for base roster. It proves he was... worked on before the game was released. We don't actually when they finished the other characters either. With nothing but tweaks at that point. The issues the game had on release suggests it's rushed, which also implies that they were still finishing up characters even by September. It is absolutely possible he was base roster, but we don't have enough details of when everyone was finished to really use the video as a good set of evidence he was for base roster either.

KirbyWorshipper2465 KirbyWorshipper2465 The Sakurai thing also makes an implication he never deviated from his core plan. Which could mean he had PP on standby for DLC while the rest were for base. Incineroar is the only exception, and it was made clear a slot was made for him. We only know why PP got in, not whether he was base or not, with circumstancial evidence that points in the direction of being planned for base. It all was good timing and information. Buttttttt it's possible to be a coincidence too. I mean, not saying you shouldn't believe he was intended for base roster. What I am saying is there's no way to confirm it here.

Until we find out when the last characters were finished at their core(as in, fully workable, where the rest of the time for them was spend on smaller gameplay tweaks and all), we lack a key piece of information; the exact timing. It's more than possible PP was started on after everybody was finished. Being done close to enough time to make for DLC. Why started so late? Could've been started late because he was always DLC. Could be started late because he was changed to DLC a bit later when they had too much to do for base. There's no way to tell at this point. As I said, we lack information and have some easy coincidences for us to believe he was intended for base. However, Sakurai's statements about DLC definitely make this unlikely; he does not make stuff to save it for DLC. He doesn't cut stuff for that purpose. That means he wouldn't just cut a character to move them to DLC. He already would have it that way. That's his main philosophy. It doesn't mean he won't start on a DLC character before the game releases either. They actually did start some work on Mewtwo in 4 before the final release of Wii U, so he clearly is willing to do some DLC work, but his only statements are clear that he never starts on DLC till the core game is finished(tweaks aside is about the best exception you could get).

I hope that explains it well enough why I don't consider PP being a cut base character very likely(I never was trying to say it was impossible, though).
 

Wademan94

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Funny, recently I have thought of a MVC style game that has Nintendo vs Indie instead. It would never happen of course, but it's fun to think about.
More indie fighting games would be fun, do you think like a huge indie crossover would fit the Capcom Vs. style or Smash style better? I started some ideas for the later before.
 

EarlTamm

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More indie fighting games would be fun, do you think like a huge indie crossover would fit the Capcom Vs. style or Smash style better? I started some ideas for the later before.
I think that style would fit very well. I don't know if this perspective is well agreed on, but I have yet to see an indie crossover game get a roster that really felt complete. And whenever a game would get close, it never seemed to have the gameplay depth desired for such a grand objective.
 

Wademan94

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I think that style would fit very well. I don't know if this perspective is well agreed on, but I have yet to see an indie crossover game get a roster that really felt complete. And whenever a game would get close, it never seemed to have the gameplay depth desired for such a grand objective.
Well still up in the air for the gameplay mechanics but how does this roster sound so far?
Here’s some updates to my indie fighting game roster:
Awesomenauts: Voltar the Omniscient
Axiom Verge: Trace
Azure Striker Gunvolt: Gunvolt, Copen
Bit.Trip
: CommanderVideo
Bloodstained: Miriam
Cave Story: Quote, Curly Brace
Dead Cells: The Prisoner
Dust: An Elysian Tail: Dust
Freedom Planet: Lilac, Carol, Milla, Neera Li,
Guacamelee!: Juan, Tostada
A Hat in Time: Hat Kid
Hollow Knight: Hollow Knight
Hyper Light Drifter: Drifter
Iconoclasts: Robin
Indivisible: Ajna
The Messenger: The Messenger
Mighty Switch Force: Patricia Wagon
Mutant Mudds: Max
Noitu Love: Devolution: Xoda Rap, Rilo Doppelori
Rivals of Aether: Orcane, Zetterburn, Wrastor, Kragg
Shantae: Shantae, Risky Boots, Rottytops, Sky, Bolo
Shovel Knight: Shovel Knight, Plague Knight, Specter Knight, King Knight,
Steamworld Dig: Rusty
Undertale: Frisk, Sans

Undecided:
Madeline (Celeste), Cadence (Crypt of the Necrodancer),
 

EarlTamm

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Well still up in the air for the gameplay mechanics but how does this roster sound so far?
Good, though for a Vs style game I would limit reps per franchise to around 3 at most.

Also, because it would fit and it would be hilarious to see among this sort of roster, I would also consider FNAF characters(Or character, as I imagine you would only need one). When the topic of extremely successful indies come up, very few rival FNAF.
 

meleebrawler

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I dunno why people are trying to find logic in the DLC characters and how they were chosen,

We only know 2 DLC characters, PP and Joker, 2 points of data is not enough to form a pattern, and thats assuming there IS a pattern.

Our efforts in this board should of shifted the moment the DLC 5 were seemingly put in stone, We should all be focusing on doing our part in making Shantae a more recognizable name in the general gaming knowledge. Instead every time i come back its just people talking about "Leaks" and arguiing the mind of a known troll (Sakurai)
Well if you're trying to raise Shantae brand awareness, there's better places to do it than a Smash-focused website. It'll also be easier to do once footage of 5 surfaces.

I think that style would fit very well. I don't know if this perspective is well agreed on, but I have yet to see an indie crossover game get a roster that really felt complete. And whenever a game would get close, it never seemed to have the gameplay depth desired for such a grand objective.
Having both quantity and quality would likely require one heck of a Kickstarter campaign or big company backing to pull off.
More indie fighting games would be fun, do you think like a huge indie crossover would fit the Capcom Vs. style or Smash style better? I started some ideas for the later before.
The vast majority of indies are 2D platformers would translate very smoothly to a Smash environment (especially considering Rivals Of Aether).
Funny, recently I have thought of a MVC style game that has Nintendo vs Indie instead. It would never happen of course, but it's fun to think about.
Nintendo vs. Capcom is still one of my biggest wants.
 

EarlTamm

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Having both quantity and quality would likely require one heck of a Kickstarter campaign or big company backing to pull off.
That's why I mentioned the idea of a Nintendo vs Indies. A company could pull something like that off, and with Nintendo being so chummy with Indies already...
Nintendo vs. Capcom is still one of my biggest wants.
Same. I would hope that the Nintendo side of the roster would not just be diet Smash however. You know, give other Nintendo characters a chance.
 

EarlTamm

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Which characters did you have in mind?
Well, I would love to see a diffrent variety of retro character's, like Takamaru and Mach Rider. Ganon would be great to have, and I think the nature of the Versus series would allow characters like him and Ridley to be much larger than they would be in Smash.
 

Wademan94

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Well, I would love to see a diffrent variety of retro character's, like Takamaru and Mach Rider. Ganon would be great to have, and I think the nature of the Versus series would allow characters like him and Ridley to be much larger than they would be in Smash.
Spring Man and Rex/Pyra would be interesting as well.

Also for the roster I shared earlier, it’ll probably be for more of a Smash style but do you think there’s any more series/characters I should incorporate?
 
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Kirbeh

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Spring Man and Rex/Pyra would be interesting as well.

Also for the roster I shared earlier, it’ll probably be for more of a Smash style but do you think there’s any more series/characters I should incorporate?
Skullgirls. A crossover indie fighting game with that expansive of a roster with no SG would be heresy. You'd already listed Indivisible on there so I was kind of surprised you skipped Lab Zero's first venture.
 

Wademan94

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Skullgirls. A crossover indie fighting game with that expansive of a roster with no SG would be heresy. You'd already listed Indivisible on there so I was kind of surprised you skipped Lab Zero's first venture.
Which ones should I incorporate? I was thinking Filia, Cerebella and Peacock at least.
 

Kirbeh

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Which ones should I incorporate? I was thinking Filia, Cerebella and Peacock at least.
Any of those 3 as their among the more prominent ones I suppose. At least Filia and Cerebella is you're narrowing things down as they're more or less the faces of the series. The rest of the cast still gets a decent amount of spotlight too so most could work as well. I suppose Parasoul and Fortune after the three you listed and possibly Squigly or Eliza as being the more prominent among the DLC characters
 
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Guybrush20X6

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17 years.
Wow, crazy to think it's been that long since it all began.

I first met Shantae in Official Nintendo Magazine when Risky's Revenge was being hyped up as DSiWare's first real game. Gotta say, it lived up to it.
 

Wademan94

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Any of those 3 as their among the more prominent ones I suppose. At least Filia and Cerebella is you're narrowing things down as they're more or less the faces of the series. The rest of the cast still gets a decent amount of spotlight too so most could work as well. I suppose Parasoul and Fortune after the three you listed and possibly Squigly or Eliza as being the more prominent among the DLC characters
I’ll put in those three and potentially Squigly as well, i was also considering Marie but I think she’d be suited as a boss, any other series/characters you can think of?
 

meleebrawler

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Well, I would love to see a diffrent variety of retro character's, like Takamaru and Mach Rider. Ganon would be great to have, and I think the nature of the Versus series would allow characters like him and Ridley to be much larger than they would be in Smash.
Firebrand is pretty much small Ridley, especially in his ''Ultimate Gargoyle'' appearance. Though, I still don't think the latter would be that much bigger for gameplay purposes.

I've had several pairings in mind, such as Wolf Link and Midna with Amaterasu (and Issun), Omega Pirate with Nemesis, Mechanica with Tron Bonne, Galacta Knight with Akuma, Bowser with Astaroth (Ghosts n' Goblins), Bowser Jr. with Devilotte de Deathsatan, Villager with B. B. Hood, Captain Rainbow with Viewtiful Joe, Tiki with one of the Breath Of Fire Ryus... and there's even more if you consider the Marvel part too.

I’ll put in those three and potentially Squigly as well, i was also considering Marie but I think she’d be suited as a boss, any other series/characters you can think of?
For Hollow Knight you may consider Hornet, she's getting her own DLC I think? Silksong?
 

Kirbeh

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I’ll put in those three and potentially Squigly as well, i was also considering Marie but I think she’d be suited as a boss, any other series/characters you can think of?
At this point none I can think of off the top of my head, at least not without going into the territory of even lesser known titles that aren't fantastic/notable but still enjoyable.

As for Nintendo vs Capcom though, one idea I've always been fond of was having Olimar and Amaterasu be (friendly) rivals.

Technically Olimar and the Pikmin are actually around Issun's size so perhaps they'd be partners in a possible story mode with Olimar's in-game excuse for being Mario size being the mallet from Okami (Or maybe it's Ammy who got shrunken down again). Plus seeing some interaction between Ammy and the Pikmin would be neat as well. Ammy digging them out of the ground, using Bloom on the Pikmin to make them go straight from leaf to flower, etc.

I know story modes in Capcom fighters are notoriously awful, but there's so much potential for really good character interactions between the Nintendo and Capcom cast. The shorts developed to advertise Marvel vs Capcom 3 were, and still are imo, the best and closest we've ever gotten to something of that effect.
 

EarlTamm

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I've had several pairings in mind, such as Wolf Link and Midna with Amaterasu (and Issun), Omega Pirate with Nemesis, Mechanica with Tron Bonne, Galacta Knight with Akuma, Bowser with Astaroth (Ghosts n' Goblins), Bowser Jr. with Devilotte de Deathsatan, Villager with B. B. Hood, Captain Rainbow with Viewtiful Joe, Tiki with one of the Breath Of Fire Ryus... and there's even more if you consider the Marvel part too.
I doubt the Marvel factor would come in, as that would then be a 3 way Verses game that, while cool in idea, would likely really cut the roster.

I decided to think about pairs as well, and I came up with Takamaru and Strider, Samus and Morrigan, Captain Falcon and Captain Commando, Luigi and Vergil(Just because it would be humorous), and Tetra and Ruby Heart. I am not super familiar with the Capcom side of things, but i think this is a good list.
At this point none I can think of off the top of my head, at least not without going into the territory of even lesser known titles that aren't fantastic/notable but still enjoyable.

As for Nintendo vs Capcom though, one idea I've always been fond of was having Olimar and Amaterasu be (friendly) rivals.

Technically Olimar and the Pikmin are actually around Issun's size so perhaps they'd be partners in a possible story mode with Olimar's in-game excuse for being Mario size being the mallet from Okami (Or maybe it's Ammy who got shrunken down again). Plus seeing some interaction between Ammy and the Pikmin would be neat as well. Ammy digging them out of the ground, using Bloom on the Pikmin to make them go straight from leaf to flower, etc.

I know story modes in Capcom fighters are notoriously awful, but there's so much potential for really good character interactions between the Nintendo and Capcom cast. The shorts developed to advertise Marvel vs Capcom 3 were, and still are imo, the best and closest we've ever gotten to something of that effect.
I think everyone would love to see interactions between some of the most iconic video game characters of all time, but let's see Capcom pull a good story mode first. Shorts would be great though. Part of the reason I paired Samus and Morrigan together was because I recalled Morrigans fight with Iron Man.
 

Wademan94

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A lot of great fan art has come out of Shantae's anniversary:
There was a problem fetching the tweet
Where’s the strap to her top?

At this point none I can think of off the top of my head, at least not without going into the territory of even lesser known titles that aren't fantastic/notable but still enjoyable.
I can think of a few other titles like Braid, Castle Crashers, etc. though I’m not entirely sure how to go about incorporating them yet
 

Dukefire

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With the places now set, the show is nearly about to start in 7 days/1 week coming up.

Last time I will say it, get the salt bunker ready.
Also to remember that other possible announcements can come at a later time throughout the year.
 

zferolie

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sorry for a tanget, but found this and wanted to share. A fight on Risky stage for smash

There was a problem fetching the tweet
 
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