Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[Luigifan18]

The only thing I will add is just a follow up on what Door Key said. You say strict, but really that's all in the organization. Anonymity is powerful. Nintendo doesnt bug employees' home computers or conversations. If people wont get caught, then they are more prone to escaping the rules. You may have trouble understanding that because you give a lot of value to rules, but a lot of people dont (secretly).

Other than that I agree.

A lot of leakers would be motivated by the notoriety, and anonymity would just undermine that.

 

[Teeb147]

Again, Japanese people aren't as insidious and sneaky as Western companies.
Most japanese people, as far as I have seen, work with honor.
So things like these are much less likely to happen.

Plus, before you bring it up, High Voltage Games, was in fact a Western company.


In fact, now that you mention it...
Has anyone asked Forgive, if he can speak japanese?
If he doesn't speak japanese, we'd have another Red Flag on our hands...

You're right, but people are people. Japanese are much more repressed than western folk, and they have more crazy secrets than them. This is also why the stuff you see coming from them is the most ****ed up **** that exists on the internet. Appearances are appearances.

Also, in your last post you said that it's silly for developpers not to know things happening in the company (info or w/e), but you forget there's so many other departments. There's designers of all kinds, supervisers, testers, and much more.

..and translation is rarely a problem when so many can be middle persons. (a lot more people know japanese nowadays, or vice versa)

A lot of leakers would be motivated by the notoriety, and anonymity would just undermine that.

Well not really, almost no one gives out there personal info. People feel satisfactions like that even when they're anonymous.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Then tell me why they wouldn't know about certain content in the game (King K. Rool, Richter, etc.) or get details about them wrong (Isabelle).

Because they don't happen to know every last detail of the game, just parts of it??

SO if Shanty's in, would she be base game or DLC??? As the release date approaches the number for potential announced newcomers is getting smaller and smaller, and I REALLY hope the Chorus Kids get their chance this time, as well as there being Incineroar and some SE character following leaks.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

You're right, but people are people. Japanese are much more repressed than western folk, and they have more crazy secrets than them. This is also why the stuff you see coming from them is the most ****ed up **** that exists on the internet. Appearances are appearances.

Also, in your last post you said that it's silly for developpers not to know things happening in the company (info or w/e), but you forget there's so many other departments. There's designers of all kinds, supervisers, testers, and much more.



Well not really, almost no one gives out there personal info. People feel satisfactions like that even when they're anonymous.

But I'm sure you can agree, that the devs responsible for the fighters are probably also tasked with the balancing.
As such they need to know about all the fighters in the game, to properly balance the game across the board.

So if a leaker wants to know about what fighters are in the game, those people are the best address for it.
Given that, the idea about them not knowing about certain fighters (King K Rool, Richter) or getting key details about them wrong (Isabelle) is just not possible.


Also, sorry to say, Teeb.
But at this point, it feels like you just keep pulling out excuses, as a means to convince me that leaks are legit.

But the inconsistencies and lack of credibility remain for me.


Again, japanese people working with honor and respecting the company they're working for...
I just can't see them disrespecting their company, by deliberately leaking information.

And we know leakers claim to have inside sources, aka members of Nintendo or Sora actively providing them with information.
So the arguments "accidental leak by hype" or "word got around and picked up" (which would've been rumors, not leaks) are out of the question already.


So my personal point still stands:
It makes no sense for devs to leak information to a random stranger on the internet.
To one who isn't from Japan and probably can't even speak japanese to begin with.


Nintendo has shown how strict they are about leaks, considering they straight up killed Splatoon's predecessor mid-development because of a leak.
And I am damn sure employee's of Nintendo should know their strandards all too well.
So they'd think twice about opposing their company like that, if it's even conceivable for them in the first place.

 

[Teeb147]

But I'm sure you can agree, that the devs responsible for the fighters are probably also tasked with the balancing.
As such they need to know about all the fighters in the game, to properly balance the game across the board.

So if a leaker wants to know about what fighters are in the game, those people are the best address for it.
Given that, the idea about them not knowing about certain fighters (King K Rool, Richter) or getting key details about them wrong (Isabelle) is just not possible.


Also, sorry to say, Teeb.
But at this point, it feels like you just keep pulling out excuses, as a means to convince me that leaks are legit.

But the inconsistencies and lack of credibility remain for me.


Again, japanese people working with honor and respecting the company they're working for...
I just can't see them disrespecting their company, by deliberately leaking information.

And we know leakers claim to have inside sources, aka members of Nintendo or Sora actively providing them with information.
So the arguments "accidental leak by hype" or "word got around and picked up" (which would've been rumors, not leaks) are out of the question already.


So my personal point still stands:
It makes no sense for devs to leak information to a random stranger on the internet.
To one who isn't from Japan and probably can't even speak japanese to begin with.


Nintendo has shown how strict they are about leaks, considering they straight up killed Splatoon's predecessor mid-development because of a leak.
And I am damn sure employee's of Nintendo should know their strandards all too well.
So they'd think twice about opposing their company like that, if it's even conceivable for them in the first place.

Like usual, i partly agree
I do think that some of the developpers may be a bit better at the game now, but no I believe there are plenty of other testers. The gameplay footage we saw of k rool and dark samus (etc) wasn't played by the developpers or designers, they were other people, with quite a bit of experience. Though to be fair, those testers might only play them when they're close to being revealed, for extra balance.

The teams conists of a lot of people. Nintendo is a big company now.

I'm not pulling excuses at all, these are very real and legit facts that could be relatively easy to know about.
But to be fair, I mostly agree with some of what youre saying, I'm just adding a take to balance it out and provide info and views that help get to the truth.

I know it's hard for you to see differing views as something other than aggression-like countering towards yours, but please rest assured that's not the intention. If you weren't sensitive to it, you would be able to see that I agree with a lot of what you say, and am balancing it, as well as adding (especially for truth).

 

[zferolie]

Man so much cercumstancial evidence for Shantae, it would be shocking if she WASN'T playable haha.

With those few blog posts as possible hints to Shantae, its making me reconsider someone I thought would be DLC only, but if Shantae had hints in blog posts, why can't him? Anyway, my still set of upcoming Unique and Echo newcomers. I'm still gunning for 12 more fighters incoming, 6 of each.

1.

She's in. all this evidence is pointing towards her.

2.

The one I felt is probably DLC I am thinking could be more base roster. That 1 blog post with rathalos seems way too much like a Golden Sun Nod, and if Shantae can get one Isaac can as well.

3.

As much as I want another pokemon, Inceniroar just keeps looking more and more likely. I can Hope for Gardevoir and Meloetta as DLC

4.

The stars(HA) are in align for him. Its either him, Slime from DQ, or Sora as that SE character, and Geno seems the most likely with DQ right behind him.

5.

I feel like a Rhythm Heaven character is still Likely, and Rhythm Girl would be the best way to rep the full series.

6.

One of these three(or someone else i can't even think) As our surprise character. I don't think we have had one yet and Sakurai always includes one. I suppose Rhythm Girl could also count as that as well.

Echos:
1.

Medusa is the echo I am 100% sure is making it in. Villain, Female Villain, perfect echo choice, and from a Sakurai made game.

2.

Everyone is here, but the only fighting style not back is OG Ganondorf, and a Black Shadow Echo of Falcon is the best choice for that. He is a bit buffer then Falcon but I think that would be ok... I mean Lucina is a clone of Marth and thats a complete gender change in model.

3.

We know this is happening. Moving on

4.

Seems odd Namco Bandai, the assisting company, doesn't have another rep. Seems like Sakurai really thinks Pac man may be the only good choice, so why not an Easy echo with Ms pac Man, another video Game icon. She would either be a alt costume or an echo, and I see no sign of that costume...

5.

So all the other third parties are getting echos(except SE whos getting geno, and Platinum), so makes sense to add that easy echo with Shadow.

6.

FE, Mario, and Pokemon are all getting new reps, so Zelda should as well. Impa would be the logical and best choice, as an Echo of Shiek, and I think the skyward sword look would be best as the default, as all the other 3d Zeldas have rep(Ganondorf: OoT, Young link: MM, Toon Link: WW, Zelda: ALBW, Shiek: TP) Though her having an alt in the look of OoT is fitting.

And thats my updated realistic guesses. All have good strong chances of getting in. I still want Reimu but shes not as realistic as these.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Like usual, i partly agree
I do think that some of the developpers may be a bit better at the game now, but no I believe there are plenty of other testers. The gameplay footage we saw of k rool and dark samus (etc) wasn't played by the developpers or designers, they were other people, with quite a bit of experience. Though to be fair, those testers might only play them when they're close to being released, for extra balance.

The teams conists of a lot of people? Nintendo is a big company now.

I'm not pulling excuses at all, these are very real and legit facts that could be relatively easy to know about.
But to be fair, I mostly agree with some of what youre saying, I'm just adding a take to balance it out and provide info and views that help get to the truth.

I know it's hard for you to see differing views as something other than aggression-like countering towards yours, but please rest assured that's not the intention. If you weren't sensitive to it, you would be able to see that I agree with a lot of what you say, but am balancing it.

I didn't see them as aggression, but as reaching.
Like I said, it felt like you are pulling out excuses, rather than truly knowing what you're talking about.
No offense.

Of course, I don't know how the development team of Smash Bros Ultimate operates either.
But I am going with logic and the limited knowledge I have about video game development.


Also, Nintendo isn't developing the game.
Sakurai's own company, Sora Ltd, is.

 

[Teeb147]

I didn't see them as aggression, but as reaching.
Like I said, it felt like you are pulling out excuses, rather than truly knowing what you're talking about.
No offense.

Of course, I don't know how the development team of Smash Bros Ultimate operates either.
But I am going with logic and the limited knowledge I have about video game development.


Also, Nintendo isn't developing the game.
Sakurai's own company, Sora Ltd, is.

Ok, that's good to know.
On my side, it feels like I read, at least at times, stubborn sticking to ideas formed and overlooking or distrusting good points that would challenge those.

I do think that the company can be strict, but looking at one extreme example (pulling a game, which probably had other reasons in addition) is not a good basis for basing balanced ideas on how things probably run.
Also, the main point that was brought up to challenge the ideas was about anonymousity.

It feels to me like you underestimate the 'dark' side of humanity, I guess, and ability to blow over respect (and honor).
It really depends how strongly some employees feel about their company. Everybody feels differently, so we can't generalize and say they all feel the same.
Diversity is one of the most important facts of people in this case. Some people probably feel it like a home and will never transgress, while others dont, as many working places feel like work, and it's more about their secret lives than it is about their working lives.

I know it's hard to see things differently if you think that many people think in terms of similar lines of reason, but the truth is everybody is different, and so it can take to have more diversified reasoning to base ideas that can apply in many situations.

Well, that's from my experience, anyway. I dont know everything, and I try to get good sense in any case, and stay open..

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Um... guys. Apparently Slackerz is dumb. :/
He thought the friggin banner fanart was a leak.

 

[Wademan94]

3.
View attachment 169754
As much as I want another pokemon, Inceniroar just keeps looking more and more likely. I can Hope for Gardevoir and Meloetta as DLC

Could someone please explain to me why Incineroar is the most likely Pokémon when I’ve seen so much hate for it?

 

[Luigifan18]

Could someone please explain to me why Incineroar is the most likely Pokémon when I’ve seen so much hate for it?

Vergeben

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Ok, that's good to know.
On my side, it feels like I read, at least at times, stubborn sticking to ideas formed and overlooking or distrusting good points that would challenge those.

I do think that the company can be strict, but looking at one extreme example (pulling a game, which probably had other reasons in addition) is not a good basis for basing balanced ideas on how things probably run.
Also, the main point that was brought up to challenge the ideas was about anonymousity.

It feels to me like you underestimate the 'dark' side of humanity, I guess, and ability to blow over respect (and honor).
It really depends how strongly some employees feel about their company. Everybody feels differently, so we can't generalize and say they all feel the same.
Diversity is one of the most important facts of people in this case. Some people probably feel it like a home and will never transgress, while others dont, as many working places feel like work, and it's more about their secret lives than it is about their working lives.

I know it's hard to see things differently if you think that many people think in terms of one line of reason, but the truth is everybody is different, and so it takes to have more diversified reasoning to base ideas that apply in many situations.

Well, that's from my experience, anyway. I dont know everything, and I try to get good sense in any case, and stay open..

Why do you want me to believe leakers are legit so badly?

I mean I said why I have my doubts.
Am i not allowed to have them?


You are saying things I know already.
But frankly, I don't see how they are related to the topic at hand.

Vergeben

Actually, Incineroar is being demanded by GameFreak.
And depending on what the deal is, Sakurai may be forced to comply.

 

[zferolie]

Vergeben

pretty much, plus the anime is pushing him hard, and Ash will get one soon too i beleive. Plus I think it gets hate BECAUSE Vergeben is leaking him and people think the roster is ending on Inceniroar for somedumb reason

 

[Teeb147]

Why do you want me to believe leakers are legit so badly?

I mean I said why I have my doubts.
Am i not allowed to have them?


You are saying things I know already.
But frankly, I don't see how they are related to the topic at hand.

That's what I'm trying to say, I dont believe leakers, and i would never push that on anyone. You're reading into my intentions wrongly.

Doubting doesnt need to take the form of concrete ideas. it can be general doubting, and then the truth can be the truth. (to be discovered/uncovered)

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

That's what I'm trying to say, I dont believe leakers, and i would never push that on anyone. You're reading into my intentions wrongly.

Doubting doesnt need to take the form of concrete ideas. it can be general doubting, and then the truth can be the truth.

The truth that none of us know...

I will repeat what I said a while ago: If I see conclusive evidence that leakers indeed have legit sources, I will happily admit I was wrong.
But until then, i will stick to my own logic and doubts.

 

[Teeb147]

The truth that none of us know...

I will repeat what I said a while ago: If I see conclusive evidence that leakers indeed have legit sources, I will happily admit I was wrong.
But until then, i will stick to my own logic and doubts.

To get to closer to the truth, you must trek the path to it. (which includes openness to lots of possibilities)
How do you think detectives uncover crimes? Or how science uncovers dynamics through theories and experimentation?

Anyway, again, I dont believe leakers. So it's not about proving you or anyone that they're legit (why would I do that?), it's about being open to possibilities, and then finding what's closer to the truth. Sometimes that means stopping (at least temporarily) at some points and saying well this or that is likely (and yes we never really know, and that applies both ways)

I dont think they have legit sources for most, or some do here and there, but no 1 leaker will have all good info, it's pretty unlikely. (imo)

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

To get to closer to the truth, you must trek the path to it. (which includes openness to lots of possibilities)
How do you think detectives uncover crimes? Or how science uncovers dynamics through theories and experimentation?

Anyway, again, I dont believe leakers. So it's not about proving you or anyone that they're legit (why would I do that?), it's about being open to possibilities, and then finding what's closer to the truth. Sometimes that means stopping (at least temporarily) at some points and saying well this or that is likely (and yes we never really know, and that applies both ways)

I dont think they have legit sources for most, or some do here and there, but no 1 leaker will have all good info, it's pretty unlikely. (imo)

"Leaking" isn't a crime. And i am no detective and not setting out to be one.

This whole "leaking" things just feels fishy to me and I said why it does.
Simple as that.

 

[Teeb147]

"Leaking" isn't a crime. And i am no detective and not setting out to be one.

This whole "leaking" things just feels fishy to me and I said why it does.
Simple as that.

No I mean the processes that help uncovering truth. Like deduction, which detectives use. There's more too, there's inductive reasoning and all sorts of stuff. Pure logic helps with that too, and is interesting, it's often part of philosophy courses (which you dont learn in regular school, unfortunately)

And like all this time, I agree with you that the leaking is fishy.
It'd be a lot easier if you could accept people agreeing with you and still have differing views

Maybe this is a good time to leave it be for now, am i right?
let's take a break

 

[meleebrawler]

Could someone please explain to me why Incineroar is the most likely Pokémon when I’ve seen so much hate for it?

Vergeben

In both senses. Incineroar is seen as likely because of Vergeben, and is subsequently hated by anyone whose character isn't on his list. This thread has not exactly been innocent of the latter...

 

[Shadowknight1]

In both senses. Incineroar is seen as likely because of Vergeben, and is subsequently hated by anyone whose character isn't on his list. This thread has not exactly been innocent of the latter...

I dislike Incineroar because he's the most boring Pokemon they could possibly pick for that generation.

 

[Teeb147]

Even if he had more characters I like, for leaks, I still wouldn't think it's a good idea to believe a leaker.
But it's true some people hate some leaks because they dont have characters they'd like. (and may 'want' to believe ones that do)

The solution? Dont look to leaks for any of it. No one leaker will have all good info.
(And alot just run off the coattails of some others, so it means nothing when lots of leakers use the same characters)

 

[meleebrawler]

I dislike Incineroar because he's the most boring Pokemon they could possibly pick for that generation.

Thanks to Pokken, I know better than to doubt the potential of any mon. Almost all of them have literal giant movepools to pull from, and their translation into a fighting game environment is limited only by the imagination of the devs. And in the process they tend to be given personalities that they don't normally get to show in the main games, which can help endear them to those that overlooked them before.

 

[Teeb147]

Thanks to Pokken, I know better than to doubt the potential of any mon. Almost all of them have literal giant movepools to pull from, and their translation into a fighting game environment is limited only by the imagination of the devs. And in the process they tend to be given personalities that they don't normally get to show in the main games, which can help endear them to those that overlooked them before.

That's for sure, any character (including pokemon) can be made interesting, and given more personality.

I think the question is more is it worth it over another? And then if we look at popularity, incineroar is pretty low compared to some of the other liked ones. (though it got somewhat a boost thanks to the leaks)

 

[Shadowknight1]

Thanks to Pokken, I know better than to doubt the potential of any mon. Almost all of them have literal giant movepools to pull from, and their translation into a fighting game environment is limited only by the imagination of the devs. And in the process they tend to be given personalities that they don't normally get to show in the main games, which can help endear them to those that overlooked them before.

I'd prefer Lycanroc or Decidueye myself. I'd say Alolan Raichu, but he's already been shoved into a PokeBall.

 

[Wademan94]

Oh I’m not just talking about in terms of Smash I mean in general, I remember when he was first unveiled and people flat out hated Incineroar

 

[meleebrawler]

Oh I’m not just talking about in terms of Smash I mean in general, I remember when he was first unveiled and people flat out hated Incineroar

Oh that was probably just knee-jerk reactions from those expecting him to be another Fire/Fighting starter, though I suppose he evokes bad memories of them today all the same. Personally I don't really see how it'd be more interesting if it remained quadrupedal, particularly since the previous generation just gave us a quadrupedal feline Fire line (Pyroar).

Teeb147 That's why I remain largely indifferent to what kind of Pokemon we may get. Though there's always the case of Greninja, who got sold for Smash mainly for his concept alone, long before he even had a chance to become popular, so I guess the only true deciding factor is, once again, Sakurai.

It is odd that he never managed to get in Pokken despite becoming popular before it's release though. Perhaps they felt they couldn't do enough to differentiate him enough from Sceptile, who got a similar "ninja" motif.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Again, Incineroar is a safe bet, due to GameFreak's demands.

 

[Shadowknight1]

Oh that was probably just knee-jerk reactions from those expecting him to be another Fire/Fighting starter, though I suppose he evokes bad memories of them today all the same. Personally I don't really see how it'd be more interesting if it remained quadrupedal, particularly since the previous generation just gave us a quadrupedal feline Fire line (Pyroar).

Because tigers aren't bipedal and there hasn't been a quadrupedal Fire-type final evolution starting Pokemon.

 

[Teeb147]

Both Decidueye and Gardevoir were popular enough to get into Pokken, so they're still the ones I'd be intrigued to get in smash

Another thing I hadn't considered before one of the leaks is that.. what if nintendo feels that it's been finally enough pokemon (especially with ivysaur, squirtle and pichu coming back) that they just arent adding a new pokemon rep, to focus on other series'?

I just think it's possible, but either way I'm curious what we'll end up seeing.
Might be a different story when it comes to dlc :O

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Both Decidueye and Gardevoir were popular enough to get into Pokken, so they're still the ones I'd be intrigued to get in smash

Another thing I hadn't considered before one of the leaks is that.. what if nintendo feels that it's been finally enough pokemon (especially with ivysaur, squirtle and pichu coming back) that they just arent adding a new pokemon rep, to focus on other series'?

I just think it's possible, but either way I'm curious what we'll end up seeing.
Might be a different story when it comes to dlc :O

That would make sense.
But then again, when Sakurai himself said Fire Emblem had too many reps, his team convinced him to stop obsessing about numbers.
So I don't think that'll stop em.

Also, GameFreak seems to have a hand in what new Pokemon-rep appears.
I mean they're pretty much demanding Incineroar.
So Sakurai might be forced to obey...

 

[meleebrawler]

Because tigers aren't bipedal and there hasn't been a quadrupedal Fire-type final evolution starting Pokemon.

Neither are turtles. Or alligators. Or lizards. Or pigs. Or foxes. Why are we looking for realism in Pokemon again?

Both Decidueye and Gardevoir were popular enough to get into Pokken, so they're still the ones I'd be intrigued to get in smash

Another thing I hadn't considered before one of the leaks is that.. what if nintendo feels that it's been finally enough pokemon (especially with ivysaur, squirtle and pichu coming back) that they just arent adding a new pokemon rep, to focus on other series'?

I just think it's possible, but either way I'm curious what we'll end up seeing.
Might be a different story when it comes to dlc :O

Probably will depend on whether they're planning on a sequel to Pokken.

Also, GameFreak seems to have a hand in what new Pokemon-rep appears.
I mean they're pretty much demanding Incineroar.
So Sakurai might be forced to obey...

And where did you get this leak?

 

[Teeb147]

That would make sense.
But then again, when Sakurai himself said Fire Emblem had too many reps, his team convinced him to stop obsessing about numbers.
So I don't think that'll stop em.

Also, GameFreak seems to have a hand in what new Pokemon-rep appears.
I mean they're pretty much demanding Incineroar.
So Sakurai might be forced to obey...

They certainly would have a say. Though Sakurai's thought to make the final decisions for most of the stuff, so I just dont know what would come up on top.
My conclusion for now is just.. it could be anything (and am really curious to see the final result )

 

[Deleted member]

That would make sense.
But then again, when Sakurai himself said Fire Emblem had too many reps, his team convinced him to stop obsessing about numbers.
So I don't think that'll stop em.

Also, GameFreak seems to have a hand in what new Pokemon-rep appears.
I mean they're pretty much demanding Incineroar.
So Sakurai might be forced to obey...

I haven't been following the Wrestle Cat thing, What non verge evidence is there to point to him as opposed to any of the other 700+ pokemon?

 

[Teeb147]

I haven't been following the Wrestle Cat thing, What non verge evidence is there to point to him as opposed to any of the other 700+ pokemon?

Well, I dont think we need to talk about it too much in this thread, and maybe some could visit the incineroar thread for more info.

Also, I think that maybe it's good to learn more differences between sharing views on possibilities, and making outright claims about things. I mean, a lot of people have trouble with that at times, and I dont want to be rude, it's just good once in a while to look at how we deliver our views. Though I mean, this is the internet, too.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

I haven't been following the Wrestle Cat thing, What non verge evidence is there to point to him as opposed to any of the other 700+ pokemon?

Umm... none that I can think of.
But, I'm confused, why are we talking about him again anyway?

 

[Wademan94]

Umm... none that I can think of.
But, I'm confused, why are we talking about him again anyway?

My fault again, sorry

 

[Dyllybirdy]

My fault again, sorry

Nah, it's fine my man.

Well, anyway, if any of you actually do feel like discussing it further, here's the support thread.

 

[Teeb147]

My fault again, sorry

I dont think you did that much.
I think it's fine to talk about lots of different things that have to do with smash and all that, I just think we might not want to stick to a subject too long if it doesnt tie back to the main topics here ;p

 

[Deleted member]

Shantae in her jammies

SHE'S

SO

CUTE!

Btw I think there's a part 2 to jammies mode(reveal trailer)

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Shantae in her jammies

SHE'S

SO

CUTE!

Btw I think there's a part 2 to jammies mode(reveal trailer)

You really should have put that in a spoiler, that takes up way too much space.