Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[ProtoTwi]

Wait...wasn't the game finallized after the game got its rating? Games are usually finished by then, right? So wouldn't it be hinting to something else? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I can't remember.

not necessarily, games can be rated pretty much at any time. often games will get content they feel could bump the age range up done early so they can send it in to get rated, and adjust as needed.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

You have to be careful balancing transformations. If the monkey or any transformation is just as good at attacking as human Shantae, then that completely obsoletes being human.

Human form just needs to be treated like the others; it has things only it can do. For example, it would be the only one that could use other magic powers like pike balls and flame. Any time you face enemies that aren't specifically designed with a form in mind, human would be the best way to go. I'm sure there are other possibilities, too.

 

[Deleted member]

not necessarily, games can be rated pretty much at any time. often games will get content they feel could bump the age range up done early so they can send it in to get rated, and adjust as needed.

Dose she know what we’re doing?!?!?

Tinfoily stuff her boi’s

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

You can submit to the ESRB before the game is finished. Technically, it's possible to get a rating without any English dubbing being done.

As for the Disney World Thing, it's likely for this:

http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/AVATAR_Flight_of_Passage

Yeah It's that one. I listened to a few seconds of the pre-show and recognized her voice.

What I think happened is she sent out the "wrapped by the game" tweet, realized that we'd freak out, and mentioned that she was in a Disney World ride to distract us. She didn't say which to send us (or me, at least) on a wild goose chase to figure out what it was. If it wasn't anything big, why even bother doing anything to cover it up?

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah It's that one. I listened to a few seconds of the pre-show and recognized her voice.

What I think happened is she sent out the "wrapped by the game" tweet, realized that we'd freak out, and mentioned that she was in a Disney World ride to distract us. She didn't say which to send us (or me, at least) on a wild goose chase to figure out what it was. If it wasn't anything big, why even bother doing anything to cover it up?

What do you mean?

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

What do you mean?

About what?

 

[Deleted member]

About what?

What you said with the objection video

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

What you said with the objection video

"I got it!". Sorry if that was unclear. Maybe I shouldn't do compilations for one single clip.

 

[Dukefire]

I will say that this is us right now on the current status

 

[Deleted member]

I will say that this is us right now on the current status

How so?

 

[Dukefire]

How so?

The posts from Crisitana Vee and the re evaluation of evidence with the countdown clock being close to two months. Its starting to make people nervous.

 

[Deleted member]

The posts from Crisitana Vee and the re evaluation of evidence with the countdown clock being close to two months. Its starting to make people nervous.

But we have a spread sheet of evidence there’s no way she’s an AT

 

[ProtoTwi]

But we have a spread sheet of evidence there’s no way she’s an AT

To be fair. nothing we have is concrete proof shes in.

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

But we have a spread sheet of evidence there’s no way she’s an AT

Don't jump to conclusions just yet. It'll only make the potential disappointment if she's an AT worse. But I do agree to the extent that all this evidence being for an AT would be completely soul-crushing and a bit cruel on WF's part.

 

[EntropyKnight]

I am... super late to this show. Figured it's about time I sign up and put in my two cents alongside everyone else. Hi guys :o

But, the C. Vee post makes sense if we consider that the animations take the most time. Once the animations are there, she'll know what to put a voice to. Might also make sense considering the missing blog posts if they were supposed to be Shantae's; if she's in, it's entirely possible her animations weren't presentable yet by the time she would have been revealed.

Someone pass me a tinfoil hat. I'll take it off in November >.>

 

[TheRandomCities4]

Honestly this gif really sums up my emotions right now:

I'm really trying to have fun with this stuff (and I am having fun), but at the same time I feel like I'm starting to hold my breath. This situation is almost starting to get just a little "too real", in a way. I feel like I'm waiting for that one thing to completely deconfirm Shantae one way or another--but no such thing seems to be happening.

Ever get that feeling sometimes that our situation might be too good to be true?

 

[Shinuto]

I am... super late to this show. Figured it's about time I sign up and put in my two cents alongside everyone else. Hi guys :o

But, the C. Vee post makes sense if we consider that the animations take the most time. Once the animations are there, she'll know what to put a voice to. Might also make sense considering the missing blog posts if they were supposed to be Shantae's; if she's in, it's entirely possible her animations weren't presentable yet by the time she would have been revealed.

Someone pass me a tinfoil hat. I'll take it off in November >.>

For ****'s sake we dont even know if that post is related to Smash nor any evidence to prove it .

 

[SAMation]

To be honest I feel it’s more likely she’ll be in as DLC if anything. I’d absolutely love to be proven wrong though. Right now my guesses for the last base roster is Incineroar, Geno, Steve, Ken (e), Shadow (e), and Ninten (e), but anything different would absolutely get me hyped just as much, especially Shantae.

 

[TheRandomCities4]

For ****'s sake we dont even know if that post is related to Smash nor any evidence to prove it .

We only have that loose consideration of something similar happening with Shulk's VA back during Smash 4. Even then, it could still just be any other game she's known to have roles in (which seems to be the most likely case).

 

[Dukefire]

At this point, anything can tip the scale with just a little push.

All we can do is wait and prepare. Its the truth since we are walking on sakurai and wayforward's home field advantage.

 

[EntropyKnight]

This situation is almost starting to get just a little "too real", in a way. I feel like I'm waiting for that one thing to completely deconfirm Shantae one way or another--but no such thing seems to be happening.

Ever get that feeling sometimes that our situation might be too good to be true?

Too much of a good thing? All the time, my man. Sakurai already completed my wishlist at the Smash Direct, but the dream is pretty real still.

 

[ProtoTwi]

We have unearthed so many weird coincidences and I've tried my best to devils advocate here as much as I can to help avoid any confirmation bias. I've been keeping the phrase "Cautious Optimism" in my head as we have been doing our tinfoil hat shenanigans.

No matter what happens in regard to Shantae in Smash, I've already accepted that Ult is going to be great game.

 

[WingedSupernova]

Ever get that feeling sometimes that our situation might be too good to be true?

The only thing that would make it seem too good to be true for me is if she got confirmed.
My hype bar is set high so that I don't get disappointed.

 

[TheRandomCities4]

The only thing that would make it seem too good to be true for me is if she got confirmed.
My hype bar is set high so that I don't get disappointed.

It's like we're on the precipice of getting a beyond-godlike newcomer roster. We're pretty much there already, but could you imagine any of the other popular remaining characters getting in alongside Shantae...

My brain melts over the idea. Thinking about Geno alone just blows my mind, but adding Shantae, etc. would just feel otherworldly.

 

[PichuMain]

But, the C. Vee post makes sense if we consider that the animations take the most time. Once the animations are there, she'll know what to put a voice to.

Voice Overs are always done usually the animations. Its makes our lives, and the businesses lives easier. If its done AFTER, it will usually lead to unsynced lip movements, which usually means they have to pay animators MORE money to fix it. Yay, great for us, but its also a hassle for us too. Its also to keep an eye out for ANY improv that may come with the lines.

Its why they say that it feels such a long time ago. Because its always done first. Its the easiest to do. Never last. If it ever IS done lasts, (and there are times), the video would be stretched, and make the scene longer, and feel a little bit more slower than its suppose to. It happens, but yeah.

i'm not bashing you (I hope I don't come across that way), but its pretty annoying for us.

 

[Mango The Magician]

Imma be real with you guys. All the evidence we have is circumstantial. I want Shantae in Smash, but it's important to remember that there's nothing that's solid to state that she'll have any appearance and the same goes to popular characters like Issac and Bandanna Dee, as really the only evidence that may point towards characters are:

-Missing AND replaced ATs.
-Having had a Mii costume.
-What Sakurai has said in the past.

So only really get hyped for Shadow, Skull Kid, and maybe Geno.

 

[WiredRM]

I am... super late to this show. Figured it's about time I sign up and put in my two cents alongside everyone else. Hi guys :o

Welcome! You're not too late to ride the Shantae hype train. First time I've seen another Red Mage profile picture, that's pretty cool.

 

[LunarLiv]

Well, Mashpotatoe Samurai and Hideo Kojima have been good friends for literal ages, so its likely that this relationship is what caused MGS to appear on multiple nintendo consoles and not just the one on the NES

Ok but when do we take that friendship to the next level and get Norman Reedus in Smash

Also with that Cristina Vee tweet, she's in a buncha stuff, like a whole lot, it could be anything unfortunately. Sorry to be the bummer on this one. But lines can be recorded this close to release, I know that. Smash is less than 3 months away, it would make sense. I'm taking into account the things I've heard about Kingdom Hearts 3 where they're still recording dialogue now with 4 months to their release.

But I do hope that it turns out to be right, that's for sure.

 

[ProtoTwi]

Voice Overs are always done usually the animations. Its makes our lives, and the businesses lives easier. If its done AFTER, it will usually lead to unsynced lip movements, which usually means they have to pay animators MORE money to fix it. Yay, great for us, but its also a hassle for us too. Its also to keep an eye out for ANY improv that may come with the lines.

Its why they say that it feels such a long time ago. Because its always done first. Its the easiest to do. Never last. If it ever IS done lasts, (and there are times), the video would be stretched, and make the scene longer, and feel a little bit more slower than its suppose to. It happens, but yeah.

i'm not bashing you (I hope I don't come across that way), but its pretty annoying for us.

It really depends on the project and its needs.
A heavy dialogue game would absolutely needs VO before Animations, as the animators have to get proper lip sync done for thousands of lines a dialogue.

But a game like smash with very limited dialogue (mostly pain screams and battle cries) most audible in game dialogue is animated with simple mouth flaps. (seriously go back and look at taunts in smash 4, there is hardly any animation for it.)
So they could very easily get away with holding off VO work until later in development, maybe done as a defense against leaks? Maybe they need to get the final script from japan then get it though localization before they can starts other language VO recording?

 

[EntropyKnight]

Welcome! You're not too late to ride the Shantae hype train. First time I've seen another Red Mage profile picture, that's pretty cool.

:D Thanks! Great to meet you ^.^

Its why they say that it feels such a long time ago. Because its always done first. Its the easiest to do. Never last.
i'm not bashing you (I hope I don't come across that way), but its pretty annoying for us.

Touche. I hadn't really considered that angle. Not bashed at all, by the by. I came in pretty blind to the overall viewpoint - that's my bad.

 

[PichuMain]

It really depends on the project and its needs.
A heavy dialogue game would absolutely needs VO before Animations, as the animators have to get proper lip sync done for thousands of lines a dialogue.

But a game like smash with very limited dialogue (mostly pain screams and battle cries) most audible in game dialogue is animated with simple mouth flaps. (seriously go back and look at taunts in smash 4, there is hardly any animation for it.)
So they could very easily get away with holding off VO work until later in development, maybe done as a defense against leaks? Maybe they need to get the final script from japan then get it though localization before they can starts other language VO recording?

i should've mentioned I am coming from a cartoonist perspective. I can understand, so you have a major fair point.

Also, yeah, it DOES happen. They are kept quiet, but the Voice Actor's usually forget they even done it by the time.the game gets out. For localization, that makes more sense, but its smarter to hire them right after the translation is complete, not towards the end. (To be fair, she doesn't talk much, so this argument doesn't have much weight, but hopefully you get my gist.) For Smash, Sakurai does seem like the type to hold them under some contract to keep quiet.

Major fair point though. So you are right.

:D Thanks! Great to meet you ^.^


Touche. I hadn't really considered that angle. Not bashed at all, by the by. I came in pretty blind to the overall viewpoint - that's my bad.

No, its okay. I should've mentioned I am coming from a cartoonist perspective. So it COULD happen, but its very annoying, no matter the position.

 

[Makai Wars]

Hey everyone! Remember when I said I was gonna draw Shantae every day till Wayforward said something about Shantae and Smash Bros?

Well that didn't happen, HOWEVER

this did. I deliberately asked him about Shantae+Rottytops as an assist and while he didn't answer, he followed back? On one hand it's great to know we're not being straight up ignored, it means Wayforward+Matt are actively reading what we're saying, on the other hand, it makes their silence even more frustrating suspicious!!!

 

[Wademan94]

It really depends on the project and its needs.
A heavy dialogue game would absolutely needs VO before Animations, as the animators have to get proper lip sync done for thousands of lines a dialogue.

But a game like smash with very limited dialogue (mostly pain screams and battle cries) most audible in game dialogue is animated with simple mouth flaps. (seriously go back and look at taunts in smash 4, there is hardly any animation for it.)
So they could very easily get away with holding off VO work until later in development, maybe done as a defense against leaks? Maybe they need to get the final script from japan then get it though localization before they can starts other language VO recording?

Now that I think about it, if there isn’t anything that needs full voice acting from her, there’s even a good chance that Cristina wouldn’t even need to be brought in to record new dialogue for her since she’s already done more than enough for your average Smash fighter:

And before you say that they haven’t used archive clips for any of the 3rd parties before, they actually have,

 

[MajestyIndigo]

Hey everyone! Remember when I said I was gonna draw Shantae every day till Wayforward said something about Shantae and Smash Bros?

Well that didn't happen, HOWEVER

this did. I deliberately asked him about Shantae+Rottytops as an assist and while he didn't answer, he followed back? On one hand it's great to know we're not being straight up ignored, it means Wayforward+Matt are actively reading what we're saying, on the other hand, it makes their silence even more frustrating suspicious!!!

That's cool ! He really does have something to hide to be that silent ! Also, I'd love to see your drawings !! :D

 

[Makai Wars]

And before you say that they haven’t used archive clips for any of the 3rd parties before, they actually have,

I feel like Sonic is the exception rather than the standard, and even if it is possible for Shantae to have reused voice lines I simply don't see that happening considering the never really had a reason to upgrade Mario from his SM64 noises but did anyways. It's a matter of quality.

As for the dates of said voice work, I mentioned earlier that it would be strange for Vee to be doing Shantae voices only a few months before the game was officially released, however I then remembered something from Shulk's voice actor.

Done some VO on several very exciting games so far this year. I'll tell you what they are when I know my balls won't be cut off for telling.

— Adam Howden (@A_HOWDZ) May 19, 2014

He posted this in May and Shulk was revealed 3 months later in August (and Smash 4 came out a month later), clearly he was talking about Smash in his tweet and while he doesn't mention exactly when he finished voicing, it's easy to assume he was already finished voicing Shulk in Smash at this point. This could be the exact same situation with Cristina Vee, finishing her voice work on Shantae 3 months before Ultimate's release.

It's definitely a stretch but both of these tweets are similar in that they're both being nondesctipt about the game they're working on, on top of the timeframe between posting and release being similar. Overall I'd say this is another point for Shantae rather than something against her. Cristina Vee even specifically mentions a game so unless she's been doing a ton of work for FE stuff (in which case why post about it+be vague about what game) it's almost certainly Smash.

Also, I'd love to see your drawings !! :D

Sure! Here you go!

 

[LaBeteNoire]

Imma be real with you guys. All the evidence we have is circumstantial. I want Shantae in Smash, but it's important to remember that there's nothing that's solid to state that she'll have any appearance and the same goes to popular characters like Issac and Bandanna Dee, as really the only evidence that may point towards characters are:

-Missing AND replaced ATs.
-Having had a Mii costume.
-What Sakurai has said in the past.

So only really get hyped for Shadow, Skull Kid, and maybe Geno.

Although it is good to remain reserved, I think it's pretty safe to assume that she is involved in some way.

Jammies mode released shortly after the world found out that the net Smash game would be called Ultimate and that it's main tag line would be "Everyone is here"

That means that they conceived, scripted, coded and tested it all before anyone new anything about Smash Ultimate other than that Inklings would be in it. Yet they release a game mode in which the main character sets out to host the "Ultimate" slumber party and "everyone" is invited. Had she used just one of these words it might have meant nothing, but both were used and highlited or emphasis. That means one of three things...


1) It wasn't a reference to Smash and ended up being an amazing coincidence.

2) it was a reference, but they only new the game was coming out because of the Inkling tease and how no other knowledge, making their use of Ultimate and Everyone an impossibly lucky guess. Or...

3) A legitimate tease with knowledge of the Smash game that the general public didn't have.

To me, the third seems far more likely as it is the only one that doesn't rely on astounding odds.

So, we can assume she is in the game to some degree. Everything else is less solid, but with a little more assumption we can suspect that she is in the game to a greater degree than Shovel Knight is because of the whole indie fighting game situation. So, in the game, probably more than an assist trophy. It wouldn't make sense for a hero character to appear as a boss in a crossover game, so that can be ruled out.

After all that, fighter seems like the only option left that makes sense.

Now, it is entirely possible that Shantae not being in the indie fighter games isn't because of a NCC imposed by Nintendo, but rather discretion on part of WF or the Bozons. However that seems unlikely. I can understand for games that don't look terribly impressive (Like I totally see them saying no to Indi Pogo, sorry that game looks very uninteresting and a bot too silly) But Blade Strangers from a developer like Nicalis seems right up the alley on the kinds of games they do let Shantae guest star in.

Having her in Blade Strangers would be good publicity, good exposure, and money with no effort on their part, but they still haven't let her in the game.

It's important to keep guard of your expectations, but it is in no way unreasonable to see how all of this points to a very possible outcome.

 

[Wademan94]

I feel like Sonic is the exception rather than the standard, and even if it is possible for Shantae to have reused voice lines I simply don't see that happening considering the never really had a reason to upgrade Mario from his SM64 noises but did anyways. It's a matter of quality.

As for the dates of said voice work, I mentioned earlier that it would be strange for Vee to be doing Shantae voices only a few months before the game was officially released, however I then remembered something from Shulk's voice actor.

Done some VO on several very exciting games so far this year. I'll tell you what they are when I know my balls won't be cut off for telling.

— Adam Howden (@A_HOWDZ) May 19, 2014

He posted this in May and Shulk was revealed 3 months later in August (and Smash 4 came out a month later), clearly he was talking about Smash in his tweet and while he doesn't mention exactly when he finished voicing, it's easy to assume he was already finished voicing Shulk in Smash at this point. This could be the exact same situation with Cristina Vee, finishing her voice work on Shantae 3 months before Ultimate's release. It's definitely a stretch but both of these tweets are similar in that they're both being nondesctipt about the game they're working on, on top of the timeframe between posting and release being similar. Overall I'd say this is another point for Shantae rather than something against her. Cristina Vee even specifically mentions a game so unless she's been doing a ton of work for FE stuff (in which case why post about it+be vague about what game) it's almost certainly Smash.


Sure! Here you go!

And then they proceeded to use the same voice clips from Brawl for Mario in the last game and in this game. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to hear her provide new clips or even be part of a codec/Palutena’s Guidance fully voiced, I’m just saying if they weren’t going to do that last part it wouldn’t be bad if they reused her previous recordings considering she has more than enough clips for a Smash fighter

EDIT: the clip at 5:27 would be perfect for her Star KO

 

[Red Dead Redeemed]

OK.... let's not lose out heads YET, but uhhhhhh....

I’m wrapped on this game ✌🏼💪🏼💪🏼 pic.twitter.com/ZJqy7PhQSz

— Cristina Vee Valenzuela (@CristinaVee) September 26, 2018

I try to keep myself at a very reasonable level of hype and accept that the possibilities of Shantae as a fighter are not extraordinarily high and that this Tweet is probably for a different game, but Jesus is this tease of a tweet getting my tin foil hat charged up. Please don't be nothing please don't be nothing please don't be nothing...

As for the Disney World Thing, it's likely for this:

http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/AVATAR_Flight_of_Passage

Oh wow I never knew she did work for Theme Parks too! I've actually ridden on that one. Freaking amazing ride.

Anyways, to add my two cents on the whole Vergeben leaks situation, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned but hear me out for a bit. This is just me theorizing so I might be completely wrong but this is what I'm thinking based on what we know.

Putting my own doubts about his credibility aside and assuming he's 100% legit with his info, I'd still say that I have a feeling that he's gonna be smoked out soon if he hasn't already, or he's gonna go dark. Loz18 is another case where he had some very legitimate info but was later smoked out. With Sakurai's legendary hatred of leaks it makes sense that he would take every precaution available and compartmentalize his work. Whenever leaks of this nature happen I'd wouldn't put my bet on any of the development team actually being the leakers, they have their whole careers on the line if they break NDA and with no obvious financial or notoriety benefit from it, no one would risk it. I'd say that 99% of legit leaks come from people like janitors, coffee boys, minor assistants, etc, people that are below notice but can get close enough to snap a quick picture or see a juicy bit of the game for a quick second which is then reported to guys like Vergeben that compile and cross-reference them before anonymously sharing them online.

The problem with this is that Treehouse is constantly surveying every bit of relevant Nintendo info online and will catch on which leaks are legit or just ****posting. This will be reported back to Sakurai and he'll know exactly what department worked on what part got successfully leaked and suddenly security gets locked down and no one is beneath suspicion anymore. Once that happens I'd say that any chance of getting new info from that source goes down to nil.

Trying to piece together a timeline of events, it seems that Loz18 definitely got a hold of some good info, but once Sakurai's team figured out which department leaked what, he was fed purposely wrong info and got smoked out, probably after he got too bold and carelessly thought he could rely on the same sources without consequence. Vergeben seems to be far more careful and avoided it for now, but after Castlevania and Isabelle, it's inevitable that Treehouse is reporting all of this to Nintendo and they're working on figuring out what department(s) specifically leaked what info (if they haven't figured it out already). Once this happens only one of two things are gonna happen, either Vergeben is gonna get fed wrong info and get smoked out, or if he's as meticulous and careful as I think he is, he'll stop rolling the dice and go dark, getting only tiny amounts of info in a dripfeed if any at all.

If Shantae is in the game, I think a surprise as big as her (the first playable indie rep, that's huge) is gonna be carefully watched over by Sakurai personally, and if he wasn't ultra paranoid about leaks before I'd say he must be now. A lack of Shantae in online leaks is not surprising to me at all in that case, as it would mean that the info that Vergeben has so far is the only info he managed to grab a hold of before the Nintendo Ninjas start trying to sniff him out, making his work that much harder.

I guess what this TLDR post is meant to say is I don't think that Shantae is guaranteed for Smash, but at the same time, don't fret too bad about her lack of presence in leaks, cause even if their info turns out to be legit (a big "if" in my opinion), that does not mean they have a complete picture and Shantae could have been missed in the shuffle (assuming she's in the game of course).

 

[Tetiro]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UAfRhl4EkZ5Zx4FRNN7QpJzdb2IMBHwXLWQP8rL9ubU/edit?usp=sharing
One of our lovely people created a Google Doc to put all of our thoughts in one place. This is everything that everyone knows. It was brilliantly done. I hope this helps!

Huh that is a pretty good thread! While I don't believe in it all, there is a good chunk that I have to agree. Nice work everyone! Great investigation!

 

[ジョルノ ジョフラミンゴ]

Dammit, my finger slipped and I accidentally voted AT instead of fighter. Anyway I am absolutely convinced Shae-Shae is playable, there's way too many things adding up for it to just be coincidence. Also if she just ends up being an AT it will beg the question of why the hell she isn't playable in any other indie fighter.