Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[Hollywoodrok12]

Guy I’m getting to exited about this are you?

Don't jump to conclusions just yet. (Not trying to be a pessimist, but) nothing's confirmed until Nintendo or Sakurai says so.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Guy I’m getting to exit

Just do that first part.

 

[Deleted member]

Don't jump to conclusions just yet. (Not trying to be a pessimist, but) nothing's confirmed until Nintendo or Sakurai says so.

Your right we must stay calm until sakurai/Nintendo give the word

 

[AEMehr]

At the very least it is possible she may appear in someway. It's definitely harder to say for Shantae than say K. Rool because she shares the name as her franchise. We can't really be certain if it's a license for the character or series.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

renewing of trademarks happen all the time. Even if the franchise isn't being used. so it could very easily mean nothing.

The fact that Shantae got her trademark renew around the same time as K. Rool and around the same time the base roster for Ultimate was finalize isn't just a mere coincidence my friend. Especially with all these Smash Bros. references in Jammies Mode and her not appearing in all these indie fighting games Shovel Knight has been appearing in which, I remind you all came out after 2015.

 

[KingofUSA85]

Are you seriously just going to ignore me and attack my character? That's pretty low bud.



Out of all of these the only ones that have any merit are WF silence and potentially the Indie fighter thing. Jammies mode is reaching as the phrase ultimate is pretty common when making something that is the best, or am I to assume that Thanos will be in Smash since Marvel referred to Infinity Wars as the "ultimate" crossover? Mimic's final words could just be a hint to a new Shantae in general and might not have anything to do with Smash. The "Warning" screen is a reference to Blaster Master Zero boss fights, a simple google search would have revealed that to everyone in here. I bet you can find a ton of other Trademarks that were submitted the same year as K. Rool or Shantae, am I to assume that each of those trademarks mean they are in Smash? And what about characters like Bayonetta or Simon, I can't find any trade marks around the same time for their inclusion in either Smash 4 for Bayo's case and Ultimate in Simon's case. As for the Indie fighters, just because there are Indie fighters doesn't mean Shantae has to be in them, it is entirely possible that WF was never approached for their inclusion and that is why they she isn't in either of them.

Now that isn't to say that Shantae isn't in or can't be in. I feel WF's silence is pretty evident that she is in this game or that WF has some part in it in some capacity. The question is what level of inclusion? If anyone can provide me links to actual statements from Game devs saying they reached out to WF to include Shantae in their games I will give more credence to the Indie fighters thing but as it stands the only real pillar we have to stand on is WF's silence, everything else could just be coincidental. People can find connections in anything if they want something hard enough, think of all of the people who have found Jesus in any number of things from clouds to toast.

Actually both the developers of Indie Pogo and blade strangers said they would be more than happy to have shantae in their games.

Again thesw things are meaningless when taken individually but in conjuction, there are simply way too many coincidences.

Yes there have been many characters whos copyright has been renewed in 2015 but how many of those characters have scored atleast decently in the ballot? How many of them have had their developers shill hard for them in smash 2015 only to go dead silent now? How many of them have a mode that was "coincindently" released after the announcement of ultimate and coincidently uses specific terminology like everyone is here and ultimate slumber party?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Actually both the developers of Indie Pogo and blade strangers said they would be more than happy to have shantae in their games.

Again thesw things are meaningless when taken individually but in conjuction, there are simply way too many coincidences.

Yeah, and WayForward isn't the type of company to just brush off Shantae to both fans and other companies that are willing to have her show up.

 

[Freelance Spy]

Ok so I went deep in the thread and found this and Matt and Erin the only important people sakurai would contact got the rights of shantae on 12/17/15 the month the roster was finalized that makes you wonder huh?

Ow that explosion hurt my eyes.

Which roster was finalized by the way? Did Sakurai mention Ultimate's finalized roster date?

 

[Stephano]

Ow that explosion hurt my eyes.

Which roster was finalized by the way? Did Sakurai mention Ultimate's finalized roster date?

I think he did at some point. If i remember correctly, it was shortly before the release of the final DLC characters

 

[Inoj]

I think what TJKBird wants is direct links to statements made by the devs of IndiePogo and Blade Strangers. I'd search for the tweets and KS FAQ, but I'm on a phone and at work so not enough time for that ATM.

 

[Deleted member]

Just do that first part.

I like your jokes your the best

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

I don't think the trademark means much.
Not that it has any bearing on Shantae's chances, which are still good.

 

[Stephano]

I changed the Main page on the Shantae Spreadsheet. What do y'all think?

 

[Welshy91]

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the biggest Shantae supporter for Smash, but I think there are worse options out there. That being said, I don't think this "mountain of evidence" means very much. Trademarks mean nothing because Rhythym Heaven and Golden Sun just got renewed and you don't see Chorus Kids and Isaac fans jumping for joy saying they're confirmed because being trademarked doesn't mean you're gonna be in Smash. Also, Shovel Knight being an assist trophy is bad news for Shantae, not good news. Shovel Knight is just as much NOT a Nintendo character as Shantae is, but he's WAY more popular. As for Wayforward being silent on Twitter? It might be uncharacteristic, but it doesn't prove anything. What I'm getting at is that I know what it's like to think the stars are aligning for a character you want to be in smash, but don't let it cloud your judgment to the point that "omg hair lady and monkey clinging to tree Shantae confirmed" is a thought that crosses your mind. Again, I'm not really for or against Shantae so I'm speaking with an unbiased perspective.

 

[Stephano]

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the biggest Shantae supporter for Smash, but I think there are worse options out there. That being said, I don't think this "mountain of evidence" means very much. Trademarks mean nothing because Rhythym Heaven and Golden Sun just got renewed and you don't see Chorus Kids and Isaac fans jumping for joy saying they're confirmed because being trademarked doesn't mean you're gonna be in Smash. Also, Shovel Knight being an assist trophy is bad news for Shantae, not good news. Shovel Knight is just as much NOT a Nintendo character as Shantae is, but he's WAY more popular. As for Wayforward being silent on Twitter? It might be uncharacteristic, but it doesn't prove anything. What I'm getting at is that I know what it's like to think the stars are aligning for a character you want to be in smash, but don't let it cloud your judgment to the point that "omg hair lady and monkey clinging to tree Shantae confirmed" is a thought that crosses your mind. Again, I'm not really for or against Shantae so I'm speaking with an unbiased perspective.

Popularity is not the only factor when a character is being chosen for smash. How many people have heard of Marth or Roy when melee was released. As for saying it bad news, I would disagree. Shantae is much more expressive and lively than Shovel Knight, Her series seems to have taken off much more oversees than shovel knight's has, and the relationship between WF and Nintendo has been strong for years, much stronger than Yacht Club's.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Shovel Knight is just as much NOT a Nintendo character as Shantae is, but he's WAY more popular.

Yes, Shovel Knight is more popular... In america.
But worldwide, Shantae has the lead in popularity.

And she especially has the popularity lead in Japan.

 

[Confirmation]

Yes, Shovel Knight is more popular... In america.
But worldwide, Shantae has the lead in popularity.

And she especially has the popularity lead in Japan.

Has Shovel Knight even been released in Japan?

 

[Deleted member]

Has Shovel Knight even been released in Japan?

Yes and it sucked

 

[ProtoTwi]

The fact that Shantae got her trademark renew around the same time as K. Rool and around the same time the base roster for Ultimate was finalize isn't just a mere coincidence my friend. Especially with all these Smash Bros. references in Jammies Mode and her not appearing in all these indie fighting games Shovel Knight has been appearing in which, I remind you all came out after 2015.

It very well could mean something As a whole, things do look suspicious, but we have to avoid falling for confirmation bias.

Renewing a trademark isn't really newsworthy. It's just something you have to do when you own IP. It could be for a number number of reasons, one could be smash, but it could also been (and probably the more likely scenario) for Shantae HGH, that was in development when the trademark was renewed.

So this really can't point in either direction so we cant really use it as "evidence"

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I wonder if there's non-compete clauses in platform fighters in general.

I ask because they went for Raiden in PSASBR rather than Snake and Rayman is showing up in Brawlhalla.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Why do people keep saying Shovel Knight is more popular anyways, when he only has that lead in the US?
Does the rest of the world not exist for you guys? :/

But yeah, either way.
We know now that WayForward has actively declined the offer of having Shantae in other fighting games.
At least, it was confimed with Indie Pogo and, more or less implied with Blade Strangers.
So the argument that the devs of these games never approached WayForward, is false.


And if you think about it, it wouldn't even make any sense.
Shantae is, at the very least, on par with Shovel Knight, in terms of popularity.
So why in the world would these devs put in characters from much lesser known indie-games, yet not bother with the big girl.

Shantae is even a highly requested character in these games.
So why would the devs straight up ignore such a call?!


I know I said before, that we shouldn't keep regurgitating the same arguments.
But I feel like I had to do it here, due to some of the anti-Shantae arguments, that were brought up here today...

 

[GoldLiger]

It very well could mean something As a whole, things do look suspicious, but we have to avoid falling for confirmation bias.

Renewing a trademark isn't really newsworthy. It's just something you have to do when you own IP. It could be for a number number of reasons, one could be smash, but it could also been (and probably the more likely scenario) for Shantae HGH, that was in development when the trademark was renewed.

So this really can't point in either direction so we cant really use it as "evidence"

How long does a trademark last anyway?

 

[Deleted member]

How long does a trademark last anyway?

10 years

 

[Stephano]

10 years

So....... can we find the last trademark before this one?

 

[Makai Wars]

f anyone can provide me links to actual statements from Game devs saying they reached out to WF to include Shantae in their games I will give more credence to the Indie fighters thing but as it stands the only real pillar we have to stand on is WF's silence

Dude c'mon, they're the first and second links in the spreadsheet everyone worked on.

Wayforward was approached by both studios and turned down both, Shantae is also the only character who got so many requests from the Indie Pogo devs that they had to make a statement about it, so it's not as if there's a lack of demand for her to appear in other games either. There is absolutely, undoubably, LITERALLY no reason for WF to turn down free publicity like this, so it's easy to deduce they might be under an NCC and Shantae is not allowed to be playable in other crossover fighters due to being in Smash.
Individually, this is kind of flimsy and would get someone laughed out of a room if this were the only piece of evidence, but it's not.

 

[LunarLiv]

I think we all know it's circumstantial evidence, and there's a real possibility that it could all be nothing, but I figure people here are still gonna be cautiously optimistic about Shantae being in 'cause we find certain actions weird and we like her.

PS. I'm really sick of the Shovel Knight argument.

 

[Stephano]

Here is a link to the breakdown of Shovel Knights Sales across the world.
https://yachtclubgames.com/2018/04/two-million-copies-of-shovel-knight-sold/

 

[GoldLiger]

10 years

So when did Shantae trademark started then? Her first game came out in the early 2000's right? If they trademarked her name in 2001 or 2002 then they would have need to renew that trademark in 2011 or 2012(3 to 4 years prior to the renewal of 2015).

 

[Swade]

I think we all know it's circumstantial evidence, and there's a real possibility that it could all be nothing, but I figure people here are still gonna be cautiously optimistic about Shantae being in 'cause we find certain actions weird and we like her.

PS. I'm really sick of the Shovel Knight argument.

Is it wrong to say you're not the only one?

 

[TJKBird]

I think what TJKBird wants is direct links to statements made by the devs of IndiePogo and Blade Strangers. I'd search for the tweets and KS FAQ, but I'm on a phone and at work so not enough time for that ATM.

Yes please, if we have them. I think the Indie fighters is honestly one of our biggest pieces of "evidence" towards her inclusion for reasons that have already been discussed. I can't see any reason WayForward wouldn't want her in them so if they specifically turned the offers down then I would feel more comfortable saying she is a fighter. But I can't find any statements from either company saying they approached WF for Shantae's inclusion.

 

[Makai Wars]

Here is a link to the breakdown of Shovel Knights Sales across the world.
https://yachtclubgames.com/2018/04/two-million-copies-of-shovel-knight-sold/

Here is a link to sales of Shantae: Pirates Curse by Region
http://www.vgchartz.com/db/game.php?id=85007

Sadly VGChartz isn't a very credible place to get sales data info since they have a reputation for making up numbers, plus I believe it only counts physical sales, Shantae has almost always had a digital release followed by a physical version later.

 

[SneakyLink]

Here is a link to the breakdown of Shovel Knights Sales across the world.
https://yachtclubgames.com/2018/04/two-million-copies-of-shovel-knight-sold/

Here is a link to sales of Shantae: Pirates Curse by Region
http://www.vgchartz.com/db/game.php?id=85007

Sales is not a great argument because I think VGChartz only tracks physical not digital.

 

[GoldLiger]

So does anyone have any information on when the "Shantae" brandname was trademarked?

 

[Stephano]

Sadly VGChartz isn't a very credible place to get sales data info since they have a reputation for making up numbers, plus I believe it only counts physical sales, Shantae has almost always had a digital release followed by a physical version later.

Sales is not a great argument because I think VGChartz only tracks physical not digital.

Ya, Something didn't seem right when i saw those numbers. I feel like it should be higher than that.

 

[SAMation]

Personally I don’t think sales really matter all that much in terms of who’s more likely or deserving to be in smash, Mother 3 isn’t the most popular game out there yet we got Lucas. In a perfect world I would’ve loved Shovel Knight and Shantae both in, however since Shovel Knight isn’t in I think Shantae has more of a chance not because of anything sales related, but more on the fact that she’s been more heavily linked to Nintendo for a much longer time than Shovel Knight. Also demand from fans, of course, but I’ve always thought the two were pretty close in how many requests they got.

 

[Moderately obsessed]

So when did Shantae trademark started then? Her first game came out in the early 2000's right? If they trademarked her name in 2001 or 2002 then they would have need to renew that trademark in 2011 or 2012(3 to 4 years prior to the renewal of 2015).

not to poopoo anything, but didn't they create her mid 90s? If they were getting serious about it they would've needed to copyright it as soon as possible so I'd say late 90s. If you beat the 1st game, you could possibly find it in the credits.

 

[Makai Wars]

Ya, Something didn't seem right when i saw those numbers. I feel like it should be higher than that.

We can't get exact sales numbers, however what we DO know is Shantae absolutely did sell well over there, she has a figure line and a cult JP fanbase. No one's saying she's anything more than a niche foreign character over there like how JRPG characters do okay-ish over here, but at the very least we know for a fact that Shantae did much better than Shovel Knight in Japan.

Spoiler: Here's Ken Sugimori playing Pirate's Curse if anyone hasn't seen it. Shantae went places in Japan.

 

[ProtoTwi]

So does anyone have any information on when the "Shantae" brand name was trademarked?

Don't have the original Trademark, but the Trademark page does list the first time it was used in commerce being 20020602 so June 2 , 2002 Shantae GBC release date.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Personally I don’t think sales really matter all that much in terms of who’s more likely or deserving to be in smash, Mother 3 isn’t the most popular game out there yet we got Lucas. In a perfect world I would’ve loved Shovel Knight and Shantae both in, however since Shovel Knight isn’t in I think Shantae has more of a chance not because of anything sales related, but more on the fact that she’s been more heavily linked to Nintendo for a much longer time than Shovel Knight. Also demand from fans, of course, but I’ve always thought the two were pretty close in how many requests they got.

Yeah, I know.
But since people keep thinking in arbitrary (made-up) rules, arguments like these will always be there.

 

[Stephano]

Personally I don’t think sales really matter all that much in terms of who’s more likely or deserving to be in smash, Mother 3 isn’t the most popular game out there yet we got Lucas. In a perfect world I would’ve loved Shovel Knight and Shantae both in, however since Shovel Knight isn’t in I think Shantae has more of a chance not because of anything sales related, but more on the fact that she’s been more heavily linked to Nintendo for a much longer time than Shovel Knight. Also demand from fans, of course, but I’ve always thought the two were pretty close in how many requests they got.

I agree. No-one here thinks sales matters. What matters to us is distribution. What percentage of sales went to a particular country.