Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[Motor Bug2005]

I know, right? What makes this worse is that this is a simple fake text leak that anyone and their grandmother could make. At least the ESRB leak had video, which was what made it credible. This is just another fake 4Chan text leak that should not be taken seriously.

It originated on SmashBoards, not 4Chan.

 

[SoupCanMafia]

It originated on SmashBoards, not 4Chan.

Oof! That'll hurt like a super scope shot.

 

[KingofUSA85]

This has probably been already discussed but:

While I also want Shantae in Smash, she isn't from a Japanese game right? (WayForward Technologies is American)
Since every single character in Smash so far is from one (unless I'm mistaking), does she still have a chance?

Yes, She has a chance. In fact, Her chances are BETTER because she's from and american Studio. Unfortunatly, Nintendo despite being a Japanese company has a long history of pandering to Western audiences. In fact, A relatively Niche American character like Shantae is more likely than Reimu an extremly famous Japanese video game Icon.

 

[Moderately obsessed]

I think there's a lot of compartmentalisation involved. Most of the big leaks only concern things that are all in the same trailer, ergo someone has see the trailer, not anything related to the game.

BTW, I fleshed out the chair theory part of the google doc. Don't believe it but no reason to not make sure it's documented.

can you add one thing for the Room Theory for me. I tried but I do this through my phone and its asking me to download apps and sign in. One thing that I think is huge is the books that are properly shelved with the spines facing out. In the E3 direct the spines were green, red, and brown (for KKR) but for this one they were purple, yellow, red, brown, blue, and orange(?) (for Shantae). They colors represent the color palette needed for the original model of Shantae.

 

[Kirbeh]

I'd say Sakurai tries to meet his Western/Japanese & Casual/Competitive fans in the middle, not necessarily pander to either or. If you want to argue how successful he is at doing so that's fine, but that all comes down to personal opinion.

Sakurai has however stated in the past that Smash is a good vehicle to celebrate and promote Japanese games. Given the focus of Ultimate however, I think now is Shantae's best shot of getting in. I tend to disagree on her being a lock, but I do think that if she's going to get into Smash, the situation surrounding this iteration is so far the most favorable.

All that said I do want to address the non-Japanese characters we've had in the games.

As others have pointed out, while Diddy, K. Rool, and Dark Samus are from the English Rare and American Retro Studios respectively, both are still Japanese franchises.

Third parties as trophies and assists such as Shovel Knight and Rayman while created by western devs, still had their games published in Japan directly by Nintendo.

Even Commander Video, the indie who got a trophy in Smash Wii U, had his games published by Aksys that while based in CA was still founded by a Japanese developer who is in regular contact with other Japanese devs hence their primary work on translations and close relationship with franchises such as Guilty Gear.

All that aside however, I don't think this bars western characters from getting into Smash, it just helps if there are some ties to boost Japanese exposure. And while it is a bit more of an uphill battle if they're not big with a Japanese audience, I believe the bigger key here is still the relationship with Nintendo, something Shantae and WF have had for years and their current relationship with another Japanese dev, IntiCreates (who also regularly develop games for Nintendo platforms), might prove useful as well.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Don't get me wrong, I really want Shantae in Smash. She would be a very original addition to the game.


From the fact every other character in Smash is from Japanese games. If Shantae makes it however, then as some others said everything will be possible. But for now...

That is not what you said though.
You said Shantae is a character not from Japan, so she has no chance.
But behold, Diddy Kong, King K Rool and Dark Samus, a bunch of non-Japan characters being in the game.

It may have been true that all the games featured in Smash Bros so far, have japanese roots.
But what law dictates it has to stay that way?


Seriously, get that stick out of your butt! <<

 

[meleebrawler]

I'd say Sakurai tries to meet his Western/Japanese & Casual/Competitive fans in the middle, not necessarily pander to either or. If you want to argue how successful he is at doing so that's fine, but that all comes down to personal opinion.

Sakurai has however stated in the past that Smash is a good vehicle to celebrate and promote Japanese games. Given the focus of Ultimate however, I think now is Shantae's best shot of getting in. I tend to disagree on her being a lock, but I do think that if she's going to get into Smash, the situation surrounding this iteration is so far the most favorable.

All that said I do want to address the non-Japanese characters we've had in the games.

As others have pointed out, while Diddy, K. Rool, and Dark Samus are from the English Rare and American Retro Studios respectively, both are still Japanese franchises.

Third parties as trophies and assists such as Shovel Knight and Rayman while created by western devs, still had their games published in Japan directly by Nintendo.

Even Commander Video, the indie who got a trophy in Smash Wii U, had his games published by Aksys that while based in CA was still founded by a Japanese developer who is in regular contact with other Japanese devs hence their primary work on translations and close relationship with franchises such as Guilty Gear.

All that aside however, I don't think this bars western characters from getting into Smash, it just helps if there are some ties to boost Japanese exposure. And while it is a bit more of an uphill battle if they're not big with a Japanese audience, I believe the bigger key here is still the relationship with Nintendo, something Shantae and WF have had for years and their current relationship with another Japanese dev, IntiCreates (who also regularly develop games for Nintendo platforms), might prove useful as well.

I mean... Nintendo's relation with Ubisoft right now is so good they're even letting their IPs feature in the latter's games. Nationality of all things has never been an obstacle in negotiations for them.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

I'd say it doesn't matter if the series has japanese origins or not.
A western character is a western character.

And there have been instances, where Nintendo outright ignored or even rejected the western side of their franchises.
Examples being "Metroid Other M" or Shigeru's flak against Donkey Kong Country.

So ultimately, the origin of the franchise doesn't even matter, if there is so much competition between the different studios, within the same franchise.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I think the only obstacles are language and timezones, not culture. Nintendo is not fully averse to western concepts.

I mean, if you think about it, Nintendo's always been a Japanese take on western concepts.

Donkey Kong: Their take on King Kong/Popeye
Legend of Zelda: Pseudo medieval Europe world (Link had a crucifix on his original shield)
Fire Emblem: It took until the last game for them to have a Japanese faction.
Mario: Is Italian.
F-Zero: Styled after Western comics
Mother: Japanese take on Americana-nostalgia
Metroid: Based off Alien
Star Fox: Based of the British Thunderbirds.
Kid Icarus: (very loose interpretation of) Greek Mythology
Kirby: Not exactly a typical Japanese name compared to Yoshi.

I think Pokemon's the most overtly Japanese of the Nintendo mainstays followed by the pre-localised Animal Crossing.

EDIT:

I'd say it doesn't matter if the series has japanese origins or not.
A western character is a western character.

And there have been instances, where Nintendo outright ignored or even rejected the western side of their franchises.
Examples being "Metroid Other M" or Shigeru's flak against Donkey Kong Country.

And I'd have to say, both times it did NOT work well. And both times they seem to go out of their way to rectify it (New DK series where the DK crew are a major element, giving Ridley robotic parts in a Metroid 2 remake to create continuity)

 

[Blobulle]

That is not what you said though.
It may have been true that all the games featured in Smash Bros so far, have japanese roots.
But what law dictates it has to stay that way?


Seriously, get that stick out of your butt! <<

It's not really me who should do that, but Sakurai (or whoever is in charge of selecting new characters for the game)

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

It's really not me who should do that, but Sakurai (or whoever is in charge of selecting new characters for the game)

And how do you know they think like that in the first place?
Did you speak with them?

 

[Blobulle]

And how do you know they think like that in the first place?
Did you speak with them?

No, I was just supposing since it's a trend they've been following until Smash 4.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

And I'd have to say, both times it did NOT work well. And both times they seem to go out of their way to rectify it (New DK series where the DK crew are a major element, giving Ridley robotic parts in a Metroid 2 remake to create continuity)

True. And they are trying to make up for their mistakes, I'll give em that.
But as far as I have seen, japanese people can be xenophobic in general.
And they don't seem to like it, if an outsider handles a thing they created, better than they do.

No, I was just supposing since it's a trend they've been following until Smash 4.

Aka, something you made up and somehow believe to be the truth.
Seriously, there are no rules. A developer can do whatever they want, within the technical limitations given to them.
And I don't think Shantae can't make it in, because of technical limitations, if you seriously were going to argue that next, because I brought it up...

 

[Deleted member]

True. And they are trying to make up for their mistakes, I'll give em that.
But as far as I have seen, japanese people can be xenophobic in general.
And they don't seem to like it, if an outsider handles a thing they created, better than they do.


Aka, something you made up and somehow believe to be the truth.
Seriously, there are no rules. A developer can do whatever they want, within the technical limitations given to them.
And I don't think Shantae can't make it in, because of technical limitations, if you seriously were going to argue that next, because I brought it up...

Don’t start this up again we already have lots of evidence in her favor as a fighter.

 

[Kirbeh]

A new user came in asking about Shantae's chances. Just give them the details we know, no need to antagonize them for being skeptical.

The passion some of you have for Shantae is great, but sometimes it's a double edged sword.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Don’t start this up again we already have lots of evidence in her favor as a fighter.

And I said otherwise...how...?

Seriously, I do believe Shantae has a very good chance, like most people here.
Especially with Sakurai fully acknowledging the western side and even respecting their votes.
Hence why King K Rool, Ridley, Dark Samus and SImon Belmont are in.
So why are you going against me?

 

[GoldLiger]

Yeah the whole "western characters can't be in rule" has long since been kicked to the curb with the introduction of Diddy Kong.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Ok well what about Shovel Knight? Granted he's not in the greatest spot you can put someone in Smash but the fact anything completely American owned became a part of the game at all speaks volumes.

EDIT: No, I don't support assist trophies if that's what anyone's getting from reading this.

It's a pretty good first step, but the only way for total victory to be achieved is if one can become playable (and, most importantly, appeal enough to Sakurai's eyes in regards to what they can bring to the table that can stand out from other fighters).

Tell me about it. They not only believe it but they think it has just as much validity as the ESRB leak despite it being just a simple text leak.

I know, right? What makes this worse is that this is a simple fake text leak that anyone and their grandmother could make. At least the ESRB leak had video, which was what made it credible. This is just another fake 4Chan text leak that should not be taken seriously.

All this just because they don't want to feel bamboozled like with previous roster leaks. To quote a certain reviewer: "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me three times and I'm a complete goddamn buffoon!" (pretty sure that was what was said in a review for God of War III, at any rate).

 

[Deleted member]

Is this fake? I want it to be fake.

 

[Makai Wars]

I think one thing we can ask is what are Shantae's chances compared to other Western characters? For example, even if Shantae has less overall history than Doomguy (Doom Marine? W/e) she also did way better on the ballot than him and would not need to be censored at all where as Doomguy's entire existence revolves around intense depictions of gore. Banjo+Kazooie is probably the character who passed Shantae in votes but considering how casual Microsoft/Phil Spenser has been about talking about him, they've technically broken NDA twice now if he's in the game so I think he'll be DLC.

Using this kind of reasoning we can compare Shantae's chances to other potential western characters and see if there's another potential bump in the road for us.

Is this fake? I want it to be fake.

Yes my son, anyone can make a leak thread on /v/, don't worry.

 

[Stephano]

Is this fake? I want it to be fake.

Yes, it’s a text leak. Leaks are dumb

 

[Deleted member]

Nope

So your saying it’s real?

 

[Teeb147]

Hi.
I saw that you guys talked about the James interview, and while we already talked about it in the past, it was different people at the time, and I'm proud how you guys handled it. We had a few people freak out about it, but generally it's not overly important because like was mentioned, only the top people need to know, and james is mostly a designer and doesn't need to know (at least at the time).

I think it does affect things a little bit, because it's a little odd that he was allowed to make the interview, but it's possible that it's better like this, because he is a pretty big gamer fan, and it would look odd if he were prevented from talking about smash as much as he has in the past. It might be moot but personally I would put her chances above 50% if it wasn't for the unknown of things around this. But that's the thing, we don't really know. It probably doesn't matter.


As for the leak(s), remember Veodok's list--don't believe text leaks.

Honestly, here's a couple of rules I tend to go by that keeps me grounded. I feel this thread deserve to see these things. I know I'll be quoting them in the future:

Vᴇᴏᴅᴏᴋ's Gᴜɪᴅᴇ ᴛᴏ Tʜɪs Tʜʀᴇᴀᴅ ​

1. Text leaks are always fake.

2. Until real, substantiable, and easily verifiable evidence is provided for any leak, consider them to be fake.

3. If there is reasonable doubt about the credibility or verifiability of a leak or leaker, then it's always best to air on the side of "false".

3. Not all "evidence" has the same weight. Some have more value than others, and every peice of "evidence" should be discussed to determine its worth.

4. Shantae's inclusion (or exclusion) from Smash Ultimate in any form should not reflect negatively on WayForward/Nintendo or any employee therein.

5. Don't make this thread the center of your life.

6. Check your headspace. If you can't handle dissapointment or hype, you probably shouldn't frequent this thread.

7. If you want to leave, don't attempt to bring people down with you. It has been seen to only cause problems.

8. Remember that this is a Shantae support thread, and it is an apparent rarity on the internet. Unwarranted pessimism only makes people upset. If you'd like to discuss why Shantae is not in Smash, you could simply look literally anywhere else on the internet and you'll find plenty of people with the same opinion. We know we could be blindly hoping for a character that wont happen, but frankly we don't care.

9. This thread is supposed to be fun, not stressful.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think one thing we can ask is what are Shantae's chances compared to other Western characters? For example, even if Shantae has less overall history than Doomguy (Doom Marine? W/e) she also did way better on the ballot than him and would not need to be censored at all where as Doomguy's entire existence revolves around intense depictions of gore. Banjo+Kazooie is probably the character who passed Shantae in votes but considering how casual Microsoft/Phil Spenser has been about talking about him, they've technically broken NDA twice now if he's in the game so I think he'll be DLC.

Using this kind of reasoning we can compare Shantae's chances to other potential western characters and see if there's another potential bump in the road for us.

Yes my son, anyone can make a leak thread on /v/, don't worry.

In terms of M-rated characters, I think Duke Nukem would be the easiest to include, since his first few games were kid-friendly (and he even had a GBC spin-off), so he wouldn't need much toning down. Hasn't gotten much attention lately, but curveballs are possible.

That being said, Shantae's greatest competition is undoubtedly Banjo-Kazooie, unless what you said does take them out of the race. Meanwhile, Lara Croft is a big icon indeed, but she hasn't gotten too much ballot support. Crash Bandicoot is another huge icon, who does have Japanese support on his side. Then there's Steve, the new kid on the block that might cause an equally big threat, unless Sakurai isn't able to come up with anything for him.

But let's be real, Shrek has no chance compared to everyone else, regardless of the memes.

 

[MajestyIndigo]

So your saying it’s real?

Don't pay attention to text leaks since even my grandmother could write them while baking a bloody cake xD

 

[Stephano]

So your saying it’s real?

My bad I read it wrong.

 

[Tybalt: Herbal One]

Is this fake? I want it to be fake.

I mean it is just text post. It is the equivalent to the kids at school who's uncles work at nintendo. Unless we see something like a switch screenshot (with the capture button) or a video of the person doing some fighting then you should probably disregard it.

 

[PichuMain]

Is this fake? I want it to be fake.

Yep. To many newcomers. The best way to do it...

Is to remember that on the official website, there's a total of 72.

so more than 4 newcomers, its fake. We're on 68. I think this is the best way to seperate them. But I'm sure everybody knows this.

EDIT: My memory SUCKS. Forgot to say this does not include echoes, but just keep an eye out.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

Is this fake? I want it to be fake.

He says it's real, so it must be, right?

Yep. To many newcomers. The best way to do it...

Is to remember that on the official website, there's a total of 72.

so more than 4 newcomers, its fake. We're on 68. I think this is the best way to seperate them. But I'm sure everybody knows this.

This updates every time a newcomer is added. Read the text right below: "Pokémon Trainer counts as one; number includes Echo Fighters." That's the current count, not the final count.

 

[SneakyLink]

Is this fake? I want it to be fake.

I am 99% certain all text leaks are fake.

 

[GoldLiger]

I just don't get it. In just a few days #Bowsette is trending in JAPAN alone with about 1.4 MILLION posts.

Damn it Nintendo what the heck have you done by introducing the Super Crown item?

Anyway back to Shantae: I will say this, that unless you have visual evidence(ie photo...even though the Ken one is fake since the shadow is shown not to belong to a character of that size lol) then do not believe any leaker. Even the ones that got it right. Remember they probably just had stupid luck.

Anyway Shantae has a great chance as always. Don't believe any leakers.

 

[PichuMain]

He says it's real, so it must be, right?


This updates every time a newcomer is added. Read the text right below: "Pokémon Trainer counts as one; number includes Echo Fighters." That's the current count, not the final count.

Ooh. Okay okay. Got it. I thought it was final. Always assumed this was what we should go to for reference.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I just don't get it. In just a few days #Bowsette is trending in JAPAN alone with about 1.4 MILLION posts.

Damn it Nintendo what the heck have you done by introducing the Super Crown item?

Anyway back to Shantae: I will say this, that unless you have visual evidence(ie photo...even though the Ken one is fake since the shadow is shown not to belong to a character of that size lol) then do not believe any leaker. Even the ones that got it right. Remember they probably just had stupid luck.

Anyway Shantae has a great chance as always. Don't believe any leakers.

Rule 63 Bowser has been around long before this flash-in-the-pan trend, and such older drawings tend to have more effort put into them than "Peach with Bowser features".

But yeah, leaks are fake unti proven otherwise. Anything that Vegetarian says doesn't change any of that.

 

[Teeb147]

I like the idea of the spreadsheet, but the 'hard fact' link about indie pogo 'officially' asking for shantae should be the actual evidence, not a link to a thread page that talks about it. (or maybe have both links if you want [suggestion])

We have evidence for Blade Strangers, but I have yet to see it for indie pogo.
(please inform if it's true?)

 

[Stephano]

I like the idea of the spreadsheet, but the 'hard fact' link about indie pogo 'officially' asking for shantae should be the actual evidence, not a link to a thread page that talks about it. (or maybe have both links if you want [suggestion])

We have evidence for Blade Strangers, but I have yet to see it for indie pogo.
(please inform if it's true?)

Looking for links is rather difficult. I’m very busy so I’m relying on others to fill in the gaps I have left out. All links hopefully soon will be filled with their proper links.

 

[GoldLiger]

Rule 63 Bowser has been around long before this flash-in-the-pan trend, and such older drawings tend to have more effort put into them than "Peach with Bowser features".

But yeah, leaks are fake unti proven otherwise. Anything that Vegetarian says doesn't change any of that.

Rule 63 is more like an actual female Bowser. Female version of Bowser would still look reptilian. What Bowsette is a power up that makes ANYONE into Peach(but with some features of their original state apparent).

So yeah let's continue supporting our Half Genie Hero, Shantae.

 

[Shadowknight1]

I just don't get it. In just a few days #Bowsette is trending in JAPAN alone with about 1.4 MILLION posts.

Damn it Nintendo what the heck have you done by introducing the Super Crown item?

Anyway back to Shantae: I will say this, that unless you have visual evidence(ie photo...even though the Ken one is fake since the shadow is shown not to belong to a character of that size lol) then do not believe any leaker. Even the ones that got it right. Remember they probably just had stupid luck.

Anyway Shantae has a great chance as always. Don't believe any leakers.

All it took was someone asking "What would Bowser look like with the Super Crown?" Fusions are a popular thing. Pretty sure I've seen one of Shantae and Peach.

See, I can bring irrelevant topics back on topic too lol

 

[SoupCanMafia]

Rule 63 is more like an actual female Bowser. Female version of Bowser would still look reptilian. What Bowsette is a power up that makes ANYONE into Peach(but with some features of their original state apparent).

So yeah let's continue supporting our Half Genie Hero, Shantae.

Huh... so how would Shantae with a Super Crown look like?

 

[GoldLiger]

All it took was someone asking "What would Bowser look like with the Super Crown?" Fusions are a popular thing. Pretty sure I've seen one of Shantae and Peach.

See, I can bring irrelevant topics back on topic too lol

I know but this one literally blew up the twitter trend IN JAPAN. I don't know when was the last time something like this happened.

 

[RetroMetalSonic]

I just don't get it. In just a few days #Bowsette is trending in JAPAN alone with about 1.4 MILLION posts.

Damn it Nintendo what the heck have you done by introducing the Super Crown item?

Hoo, boy, I didn't expect the Super Crown to spawn a popular fan creation like that... (I'm getting Eggette flashbacks...) Although now I'm nervous about what people will create... Next there'll be Yopeach or Peachful... (Oh no... WAPEACH.)

Back to the topic of Shantae... Does anyone know any videos that showcase Shantae's attacks and abilities? I wanna do some research for a moveset.