Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[Makai Wars]

Okay so after listening through the James Montagana interview:

• James Montagana says he doesn't know anything about Smash in 2017
• "We (Wayforward) haven't heard anything from Sakurai in a while"
• "Doesn't seem too likely we'll see an indie character as a fighter"
• "I'd love to see indies happen as a trophy, but I don't see indies as fighters being feasible"
• "Western characters should probably get in line behind popular JP characters"

He mentions Shantae during the ballot voting season and Nintendo might consider using the ballot for...a trophy? This is is about as close as he gets.
A. didn't even know about Ultimate
B. hasn't been in contact with Sakurai as of January 2017 (?)

Then he said "you might be surprised!" So???
Overall I don't know you guys, this would technically break NDA right? While he never mentions Shantae and Smash in the same sentence he really sounds like he doesn't know what happening over at Nintendo. Would he lie? Would he just not know? I'm not feelin' so hot anymore all of a sudden.

 

[TheRandomCities4]

Okay so after listening through the James Montagana interview:

• James Montagana says he doesn't know anything about Smash in 2017
• "We (Wayforward) haven't heard anything from Sakurai in a while"
• "Doesn't seem too likely we'll see an indie character as a fighter"
• "I'd love to see indies happen as a trophy, but I don't see indies as fighters being feasible"
• "Western characters should probably get in line behind popular JP characters"

View attachment 166374
He mentions Shantae during the ballot voting season and Nintendo might consider using the ballot for...a trophy? This is is about as close as he gets.
A. didn't even know about Ultimate
B. hasn't been in contact with Sakurai as of January 2017 (?)

Then he said "you might be surprised!" So???
Overall I don't know you guys, this would technically break NDA right? While he never mentions Shantae and Smash in the same sentence he really sounds like he doesn't know what happening over at Nintendo. Would he lie? Would he just not know? I'm not feelin' so hot anymore all of a sudden.

Unless he isn't privy to the situation at all.

What if Matt Bozon, Christine Vee, and the music composer are the only ones in on the NDA/NCC? Is that possible?

 

[Stephano]

Okay so after listening through the James Montagana interview:

• James Montagana says he doesn't know anything about Smash in 2017
• "We (Wayforward) haven't heard anything from Sakurai in a while"
• "Doesn't seem too likely we'll see an indie character as a fighter"
• "I'd love to see indies happen as a trophy, but I don't see indies as fighters being feasible"
• "Western characters should probably get in line behind popular JP characters"

View attachment 166374
He mentions Shantae during the ballot voting season and Nintendo might consider using the ballot for...a trophy? This is is about as close as he gets.
A. didn't even know about Ultimate
B. hasn't been in contact with Sakurai as of January 2017 (?)

Then he said "you might be surprised!" So???
Overall I don't know you guys, this would technically break NDA right? While he never mentions Shantae and Smash in the same sentence he really sounds like he doesn't know what happening over at Nintendo. Would he lie? Would he just not know? I'm not feelin' so hot anymore all of a sudden.

Hol-up, while yes this is “concerning,” I don’t know man, there are some many pieces to this puzzle. There is so much evidence for her that I can’t help not to believe. However, if there is one piece of evidence against her.... I would have to say that it’s this. But there is still so much in her favor that I’m not ready to accept this. There would need to be a lot more to change my mind. Plus the “I haven’t hear from Sakurai in a while” is very interesting. Hmmm

 

[EarlTamm]

Plus, we know he did not know about Smash. From the sound of things on twitter, he freaked the geck out over it's announcement.

 

[Shadowknight1]

Unless he isn't privy to the situation at all.

What if Matt Bozon, Christine Vee, and the music composer are the only ones in on the NDA/NCC? Is that possible?

Well, I suppose the question is how involved IS he with the series? How much would he know? Because if he's close to the series then...would that not sink the ship for her altogether? Obviously he's somewhat wrong since he doesn't see indies in the game at all, yet we have ol' Shovel Knight, but still...

 

[TheRandomCities4]

Plus, we know he did not know about Smash. From the sound of things on twitter, he freaked the geck out over it's announcement.

Yes I remember this, while Matt Bozon actually seemed calm--even "calling out" James on his reaction, right?

 

[Stephano]

Yes I remember this, while Matt Bozon actually seemed calm--even "calling out" James on his reaction, right?

I take back what I said. Maybe it is possible that only a select few at WayForward know.

If I get board at school tomorrow, I may update that picture with more evidence lol.

 

[TheRandomCities4]

I take back what I said. Maybe it is possible that only a select few at WayForward know.

Isn't it better that way? The chances of leaks or the breaking of such agreements only increase with the more people you include.

 

[Makai Wars]

What if Matt Bozon, Christine Vee, and the music composer are the only ones in on the NDA/NCC? Is that possible?

He said he's been working at Wayforward for around 10 years so it'd be shocked if he somehow doesn't know. It's not an impossibility, I know the original composer of the Snipperclips song that got remixed for Smash had no idea it was getting a rearrangement till it actually showed up on the website, but like I think one song is totally different from a full on character.

And maybe you're right, James Montagana works on the Shantae games but he's a developer, not really one of their businessmen or an owner of either Wayforward or the Shantae IP. Technically speaking he's a Smash and Shantae fan like the rest of us and Matt Bozon is the sole owner of the Shantae IP, so really ONLY Matt Bozon would know about Shantae in Smash while literally everyone else at Wayforward would be in the dark as we are.
For example I'm working for a moderately popular indie dev studio myself and I have no idea what's happening on the business end of the spectrum, so maybe it's the same deal here.

At least...that's what I'm hoping, James Montagana said outright that WF hasn't heard from Sakurai so unless Sakurai is only talking to Bozon exclusively it's not looking so good..? I think??? I don't know, someone help

 

[Stephano]

He said he's been working at Wayforward for around 10 years so it'd be shocked if he somehow doesn't know. It's not an impossibility, I know the original composer of the Snipperclips song that got remixed for Smash had no idea it was getting a rearrangement till it actually showed up on the website, but like I think one song is totally different from a full on character.

And maybe you're right, James Montagana works on the Shantae games but he's a developer, not really one of their businessmen or an owner of either Wayforward or the Shantae IP. Technically speaking he's a Smash and Shantae fan like the rest of us and Matt Bozon is the sole owner of the Shantae IP, so really ONLY Matt Bozon would know about Shantae in Smash while literally everyone else at Wayforward would be in the dark as we are.
For example I'm working for a moderately popular indie dev studio myself and I have no idea what's happening on the business end of the spectrum, so maybe it's the same deal here.

At least...that's what I'm hoping, James Montagana said outright that WF hasn't heard from Sakurai so unless Sakurai is only talking to Bozon exclusively it's not looking so good..? I think??? I don't know, someone help

Calm down, calm down. What you said about Snipperclips may hold more weight than you think. From here I believe it’s best we try dig up similar instances like this and catalog them.

 

[Deleted member]

Woah did the ship just sink did that decrease her chances?

 

[SoupCanMafia]

Everyone needing some therapy, I got just the heckin' cute video for you gentlemen.

 

[Stephano]

Woah did the ship just sink did that decrease her chances?

NO, and here is why, what Makai Wars said about Snipperclips may hold more weight than we initially may think. I believe Nintendo knows about leaks and potential fake leaks. It would make sense for only the creator of a series to handle negotiations about a potential colaberation, especially one as secretive as Smash. To me, I believe only 3-4 people at WF know about her inclusion: Matt, Erin, Cristina, a composer. It would make sense for so little few people to know as to keep leaks at a minimum.

 

[TheRandomCities4]

I have a couple cents to add:

Remember how Sakurai is handling this Smash Brothers. He is having people work in, what he calls, "hype-proof conditions" where certain developers are working on certain characters. What if he would approach the Shantae/Wayforward situation in a similar manner, by contacting only the most necessary people behind the Shantae franchise?

 

[Stephano]

I have a couple cents to add:

Remember how Sakurai is handling this Smash Brothers. He is having people work in, what he calls, "hype-proof conditions" where certain developers are working on certain characters. What if he would approach the Shantae/Wayforward situation in a similar manner, by contacting only the most necessary people behind the Shantae franchise?

It makes the most sense to me.

Okay, at this point, our evidence is all over the place. We need a spreadsheet.

 

[Makai Wars]

I have a couple cents to add:

Remember how Sakurai is handling this Smash Brothers. He is having people work in, what he calls, "hype-proof conditions" where certain developers are working on certain characters. What if he would approach the Shantae/Wayforward situation in a similar manner, by contacting only the most necessary people behind the Shantae franchise?

You're right. Matt Bozon is one of (if not the) head of Wayforward and is the sole owner of Shantae, hypothetically speaking outside of Shantae's VA, no one else actually needs to know about Shantae being in Smash at all. This isn't a deal with like Pokemon, where Pikachu is owned by Nintendo, TPCI and Gamefreak. If Sakurai wanted Shantae he only needed to speak with Matt Bozon while the rest of Wayforward was in the dark. In regards to the NDA and silence from Wayforward's PR, all Bozon has to do is say "hey, don't talk about Smash on Twitter" and bam.

That being said, this interview actually has zero bearing on Shantae's chances in Smash. James Montagana didn't even know about Ultimate. The only way this interview would directly affect Shantae's chances is if this interview happened with Matt Bozon.

If Shantae DOES get revealed for Ultimate it will likely be at the shock of WF employees as well, this is probably a secret from everyone.
Sorry for freaking out, I lost my composure...

 

[TheRandomCities4]

Here's my opinion on these recent developments/understandings:

I don't think this causes Shantae's chances to be jeopardized at all.

I believe this "stress" we're experiencing is a result of us potentially getting closer to understanding exactly what's going on. We may be narrowing down our exact targets behind all our suspicion with WayForward/Shantae/Smash Ultimate. All of that evidence could be pointing towards those few candidates being in on everything.

After all, the WF twitter account (plus James' twitter account) could all be "silent" on Smash Brothers based on a company-wide PSA from Matt to "not answer anything on Smash Brothers this time around" or something like that. No one else has to "know" at all. They could be simply following an order from the head honcho himself to be silent regarding Smash Brothers. It could even be worded by Matt in such a way to not cause suspicion "within the ranks", so to speak.

This is all pretty exciting, IMO.

 

[LaBeteNoire]

NO, and here is why, what Makai Wars said about Snipperclips may hold more weight than we initially may think. I believe Nintendo knows about leaks and potential fake leaks. It would make sense for only the creator of a series to handle negotiations about a potential colaberation, especially one as secretive as Smash. To me, I believe only 3-4 people at WF know about her inclusion: Matt, Erin, Cristina, a composer. It would make sense for so little few people to know as to keep leaks at a minimum.

Particularly early on. When it came to getting permission and discussing move sets and representation, Sakurai would only need to discuss it with the people closest to the character.

By the time that interview happened, it's possible most people at Wayforward weren't privy.

But now, I imagine a lot of them have been filled in, or at least people in charge of pr have been told to avoid the subject of Smash.

 

[Shadowknight1]

Or we're blowing things way out of proportion and concocting patterns where none exist. But hey, it wouldn't be Smash speculation if not for tin foil hats everywhere! I still have faith that if she's not in the base roster or an AT, she has a chance as DLC.

That said, has James been quiet about Shantae for Smash since that interview?

 

[TheRandomCities4]

That said, has James been quiet about Shantae for Smash since that interview?

To my knowledge, apart from his reaction to when it was teased in March with Inklings, yes.

 

[Makai Wars]

This is all pretty exciting, IMO.

Ahahaha! I like that we said the exact same thing, but let's drive it home.
Who owns Shantae? Matt Bozon. Who's the founder and head of Wayforward? Matt Bozon again. Therefore, who would be the first person Sakurai would go to in regards to Shantae being in Smash? Again, Matt Bozon.
Next up, her lack of appearances in other games, guess who! Matt Bozon would be the absolute first name people would need to contact when it comes to her getting a cameo in another game, Matt Bozon could singlehandedly turn down any request for Shantae cameos himself without any need to get involved with legal tape. As Wayforward's big boss, he also has the executive power to tell absolutely everyone working at Wayforward, James Montagana included, that they cannot talk about Shantae in Smash in any capacity.

 

[Inoj]

The situation is very interesting indeed. There are so many puzzlepieces.

I also agree we need to concentrate our evidence and speculation into one source.
A clear separation and categorization should help.

1. Hard Facts
2. Circumstantial Evidence
3. Plausible Hypotheses/Theories
4. Conspiracy-level things

Something like that?

 

[Shinuto]

He said he's been working at Wayforward for around 10 years so it'd be shocked if he somehow doesn't know. It's not an impossibility, I know the original composer of the Snipperclips song that got remixed for Smash had no idea it was getting a rearrangement till it actually showed up on the website, but like I think one song is totally different from a full on character.

And maybe you're right, James Montagana works on the Shantae games but he's a developer, not really one of their businessmen or an owner of either Wayforward or the Shantae IP. Technically speaking he's a Smash and Shantae fan like the rest of us and Matt Bozon is the sole owner of the Shantae IP, so really ONLY Matt Bozon would know about Shantae in Smash while literally everyone else at Wayforward would be in the dark as we are.
For example I'm working for a moderately popular indie dev studio myself and I have no idea what's happening on the business end of the spectrum, so maybe it's the same deal here.

At least...that's what I'm hoping, James Montagana said outright that WF hasn't heard from Sakurai so unless Sakurai is only talking to Bozon exclusively it's not looking so good..? I think??? I don't know, someone help

Makai can yougive your icon picture in full?

 

[TheRandomCities4]

The situation is very intetestin indeed. There are so many puzzlepieces.

I also agree we need to concentrate our evidence and speculation into one source.
A clear separation and categorization should help.

1. Hard Facts
2. Circumstantial Evidence
3. Plausible Hypotheses/Theories
4. Conspiracy-level things

Something like that?

It would be nice if we had an updated graphic that is clearly categorized. Our current graphic, although nice, is a bit behind on our findings/speculation.

Unfortunately, I'm not that great at graphic design. I'm much better with word organization/clarity.

 

[Makai Wars]

Here's my timeline of what's happened in some Shantae-gets-in-Smash timeline:

Late 2015: Sakurai contacts Bozon about Shantae in Smash and Bozon gives the green light, meanwhile the rest of Wayforward has no clue.
January 2017: James Montagana conducts the interview, not knowing anything about Ultimate nor Shantae's inclusion of the game.
March 2018: Smash Ultimate is announced and Bozon alerts all his employees at Wayforward that they cannot talk about Smash in ANY capacity.
Today: We're...here I guess.

Sakurai is the one who decides everything about a character's appearance in Smash Bros, this is even a requirement for a character making the cut, henceforth he would not take any input from Wayforward about how Shantae is presented, he wouldn't need to, all he needs is the green light. Therefore there is no reason for anyone else at Wayforward BUT Bozon to know about Ultimate, meaning once again that James Montagana's interview has no bearing on her chances.

Makai can yougive your icon picture in full?

Oh, sure! I drew it after all

Spoiler

 

[LaBeteNoire]

Here's my timeline of what's happened in some Shantae-gets-in-Smash timeline:

Late 2015: Sakurai contacts Bozon about Shantae in Smash and Bozon gives the green light, meanwhile the rest of Wayforward has no clue.
January 2017: James Montagana conducts the interview, not knowing anything about Ultimate nor Shantae's inclusion of the game.
March 2018: Smash Ultimate is announced and Bozon alerts all his employees at Wayforward that they cannot talk about Smash in ANY capacity.
Today: We're...here I guess.

Sakurai is the one who decides everything about a character's appearance in Smash Bros, this is even a requirement for a character making the cut, henceforth he would not take any input from Wayforward about how Shantae is presented, he wouldn't need to, all he needs is the green light. Therefore there is no reason for anyone else at Wayforward BUT Bozon to know about Ultimate, meaning once again that James Montagana's interview has no bearing on her chances.

Oh, sure! I drew it after all

Spoiler

View attachment 166383

She looks so nonplussed. It's adorable

 

[Shinuto]

Here's my timeline of what's happened in some Shantae-gets-in-Smash timeline:

Late 2015: Sakurai contacts Bozon about Shantae in Smash and Bozon gives the green light, meanwhile the rest of Wayforward has no clue.
January 2017: James Montagana conducts the interview, not knowing anything about Ultimate nor Shantae's inclusion of the game.
March 2018: Smash Ultimate is announced and Bozon alerts all his employees at Wayforward that they cannot talk about Smash in ANY capacity.
Today: We're...here I guess.

Sakurai is the one who decides everything about a character's appearance in Smash Bros, this is even a requirement for a character making the cut, henceforth he would not take any input from Wayforward about how Shantae is presented, he wouldn't need to, all he needs is the green light. Therefore there is no reason for anyone else at Wayforward BUT Bozon to know about Ultimate, meaning once again that James Montagana's interview has no bearing on her chances.

Oh, sure! I drew it after all

Spoiler

View attachment 166383

cute!

 

[Deleted member]

Good job getting back together now that we have enough evidence that she is indeed a fighter the polls are regaining hope how happy this is!
I’m going to bed night night don’t let the krokodiles bite!

 

[TJKBird]

While it would depend on the contract, as far as I know an NDA doesn't preclude you from discussing topics related to the project you've signed an NDA for. For instance, for anyone who is a Game of Thrones fan, you would know that at the end of one of their seasons one of the lead characters died. The actor went onto Late Night shows and talked about the characters death and how that was the end for that character. Well next season rolls around and sure enough the character isn't dead.

WF and any of its employees presumably can freely talk about Smash and/or Shantae being in Smash, however they cannot come out and say "Yes she is in" or that they are working with Nintendo on it or any future projects.

 

[SoupCanMafia]

I feel like we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves here. What if the hand we're holding isn't a Royal Flush, but rather an Ace High hand with a bummer card replacing the 10 card? We might be getting a bit too into our own theories to see right.

 

[Deleted member]

I feel like we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves here. What if the hand we're holding isn't a Royal Flush, but rather an Ace High hand with a bummer card replacing the 10 card? We might be getting a bit too into our own theories to see right.

What do you mean? I’m scared

 

[Deleted member]

Oh we are back on James' interview source gaming again?
Yeah, Like other have said, there is a very small amount of people who would be privy to knowing if shanty in smash from the WF side. Primarily Matt and Erin, but I would also throw in some legal council, while Matt would undoubtedly let Sakurai do his thing with Shantae, you would be a fool to not have a lawyer look over the details of a contract. could be a personal lawyer for the Bozons or WF's legal)

And the only other potential need to know would be Christina, but that is assuming she is even needed to record (you could reasonably get by with what she has already recorded for past games.
And as far as Jake Kaufman is concerned, He would only know if he was asked to remix a Shantae song, he doesn't own the music.

 

[SoupCanMafia]

What do you mean? I’m scared

I feel that we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves in our speculating and presuming most stuff when there's not enough hard facts to definitively say that. The most definitive thing I'll say is try not to get your expectations up too high, because a lot of our theories and speculations could easily smack us right up our faces. I'll settle for Shantae definitely appearing in Smash in some form, but I won't go all the way to "definitely playable" yet.
Huh, so this is what it feels to be like a Hollywoodrok here. What an odd, yet empty sensation...

 

[LaBeteNoire]

I feel that we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves in our speculating and presuming most stuff when there's not enough hard facts to definitively say that. The most definitive thing I'll say is try not to get your expectations up too high, because a lot of our theories and speculations could easily smack us right up our faces. I'll settle for Shantae definitely appearing in Smash in some form, but I won't go all the way to "definitely playable" yet.
Huh, so this is what it feels to be like a Hollywoodrok here. What an odd, yet empty sensation...

I think there is a lot there that really only makes sense if she is playable. Yes, it all could be coincidence and you can never be so sure that it's impossible to be wrong. However, I think enough is there that being confident is reasonable.

Of course, none of us have any right to be surprised should we be proven wrong, but until that happens I think any of us can feel safe that she probably will be playable.

 

[WiredRM]

I'm coming from an Isaac support thread and wish you guys luck. Personally I would love to see our beloved half-genie hero get in alongside Isaac :D

What a hype reveal that would be! Thanks, it would be rockin' to play as Isaac too.

 

[Confirmation]

What a hype reveal that would be! Thanks, it would be rockin' to play as Isaac too.

Argh these puns

 

[Deleted member]

Huh, so this is what it feels to be like a Hollywoodrok here. What an odd, yet empty sensation...

Yeah remember that one time..........THAT ONE TIME?!?

I even found the page when you gave up from 128-135

(135 is the part where I save y’alls butts)

 

[SoupCanMafia]

Yeah remember that one time..........THAT ONE TIME?!?

I even found the page when you gave up from 128-135

(135 is the part where I save y’alls butts)

Huh... don't remember giving up, mainly just me stating the obvious, really...

 

[Dyllybirdy]

(135 is the part where I save y’alls butts)

you're starting to sound like link there

 

[LaBeteNoire]

you're starting to sound like link there

Dude, if Brentalfloss did a "What if Shantae... had lyrics?" using maybe "We love burning town" or one of the other more memorable ones, that would be awesome.