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I believe shantae is in the roster because of the room in the last smash direct and wf silence including her possible exclusivity contract just like k rool. in early 2016 after the interview which she cannot appear in any fighting games and wf dose not want to tell the company’s why. And it makes sense why she wasn’t shown with sk in the AT montage. And since AT don’t take that long YC might had an nda somewhere in mid 2017 after yc said he has a. 0.1 chance of making it in during an interview in 2017 While wf was talking only about the ballot in smash 4 only in 2016 and this game is making the fighters be more expressive I mean look at rob right now and shantae is more expressive than SK so yeah shantae has a huge chance!Well been trying to keep m mind positive with smash. With Dyl and the box theory, i just needed to think. warning this is a massive text post, sorry about that. I would normally make my own thread but i beleive thats frowned here. I am probabaly put this in the newcomer disscussion thread as well, but as I main her and Medusa threads I wanted to post this here first.
I am still pretty sure that box is just a mock up. quickly photoshopped together to show a general idea of what the box will look like. I am sure we are getting more then 2 fighters base. Very sure. In fact been thinking just how many, and I am still sure that our final base is 84, due to smash down.
However,, the question is, how many does smashdown, count characters? Does it count them by places on the character select screen, like the Box does(which is saying we have a total of 70 characters right now including isabelle) or does it count on how Sakurai is actually counting characters, shown on the about page on the smash website. Remember how I showed that it used to say we are currently at 71? Now look at the site.
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Now why is this different? well its the Mii Fighters. They use 1 box on the character select screen, but count as 3 fighters. Also, pokemon also is 3 characters in 1 slot, but counts as 1 fighter as you do get to play as all 3 fighters in 1, unlike with mii fighter
This could punch a hole at the box thoery that says 72 fits for smashdown, because if smashdown lets you use each mii fighter, with Ken and Inceniroar thats 74 fighters. But thats not why I brought this up.
I am going to assume Sakurai is going to end this game saying 84 fighters in the game on that screen there. so that means 12 more fighters. if we were gonna go with how everyone is saying we have 70 character slots currently(since mii fighter uses 1) that would have left us with 14 more characters coming, which is incorrect. 12 more are coming based on that number of 72 selectable characters are in the game.
Now, how many are echos, how many are newcomers, and how many are from returning series? I looked at 2 things: The stage selection screen(tied to Corocoro 108 stages plus 1 DLC button), and the music player screen. First, the stage selection as thats breif. we know hthere are currently 6 blank spots, and sakurai wouldn't just leave blank spots. He did on the 3ds but I assume thats due to hardware issues and saved those blank spots for the DLC, which it filled. He didn't do that in wii u, which DLC got its own button. This one I feel will follow the later, with, if we are gettin a create a stage back, becoming a tab like in Wii u
Now, newcomers that are from existing series have not gotten any stages tied to them. I think this will countinue to be the case, save for maybe Geno, who may count as a Mario character for music, which I will get more into. So, at most, 5 brand new franchises, if each got new stages, though a retro may not. still, lets go with 5 for this example.
Butwe can further how many newfranchises we can expect, by looking at the sound test screen. as sakurai stated. the music in the game is organised by series, but some series is placed in other if they don't have a stage, or they themselves don''t have much music tied to it. for the Later, ROB, Duck Hunt, and Ice Climbers all are in other). Knowing that, Here is the end of the screen.
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As you can see, there is room for 3 more series to fit. The pokemon new comer, and the retro I am sure we are getting, will most likely not get their own screen spot. Also, to help debunk the box theory, more so then the stage selection screen as we could get 5 stages not tied to newcomers, we have 32 music icons listed, which includes and all and 2 mario ones. why would Sakurai leave space open for 3 when he could have fit the 32 icons easily into a 4x8 layout, but instead he did a 5x7 layout. the only reason is we have 3 more series getting music selections, and the box theory cannot fit 3 more series, and verg's 2 picks would not give us 3 new series, in fact it gives us none. so we know for sure that 3 newcomers will be from new series, and retro would not be counted towards that.
So, with those thoughts out, that leaves us with newcomers: 1 new pokemon(looking to be inceniroar if Verg is correct), 1 new retro, and 3 new series fully. 5 new comers at the very least are still coming. The last bit is a bit less solid, but fits how Sakurai could work and whats he doing. If we end with 5 newcomers, that would give us 73 numbered fighters, since echos share numbers. Sakurai I don't feel would end on an odd number. Just feels... wrong almost. so 1 more newcomer will give us 74, and I feel that is were he will stop for the base game, in terms of full on newcomers that get their own number.
So that leaves us with echos, and thats easy. we said there should be 84 total selectable fighters in this game, and we needed 12 to hit that. with 6 Full newcomers, that leaves us with 6 echos to fill those out.
As to who those fighters are. I'll go into my predictions/wants. I do feel that Verg is probably right on Inceniroar and Ken, though I would rather have Gardevoir and Akuma. so first, my predictect/wanted remaining newcomers. as well as noting which is getting one of the stages and which 3 series have the new music icons.
1. Inceniroar. Getting it out since its most likely. While I would rather have Gardevoir, I can't argue he is popular, gamefreak is pushing him hard, and he could have a very unique moveset. He would not get a stage and already is in the pokemon music slot(odd mario has 2 slots yet pokemon only has 1 huh?)
2. Shantae. So many circumstancal evidence is pointing towards her in. I really feel like she will be in this game. She would get a stage and one of the music icons.
3. A Retro. Is so hard to predict what sakurai would pick but we can be sure he will put one in. My want is Donbe and Hikari but my money is on Lip or Mach Rider. Lip has had an item in the game since melee and the only series that has an item in every game but no character tied to it. There are smash only items bit lip's stick is from the Panel de Pon series. Mach rider though could be something sakurai wants to do to rep old racing games and have Excite bike tied into their attacks. They wouldn't have a music icon, but they could have a stage. Retro hasn't always had a stage so its possible this newcomer would not have one.
4.A Square Enix Character, Either Geno, or a Dragon Quest rep(with the other getting DLC most likely). Geno is a huge fan favorite and we know Sakurai wanted to add him into Brawl(he said so himself) so I think he has a super high chance of making it in. However, its not just Sakurai that has the word, he needs to work with square. While nintendo and square are so close now, and I can see them agreeing to Geno, its possible they may want to represent their other huge series. The grandaddy of all RJPG's, its biggest series in japan, Dragon Quest. So far most of the reveals have been very NA and EU focused, but a dragon quest pic would be a massive nod to the japanese audiance to the game. I can easily see them going this route, and putting geno as early DLC(to maybe help sell the DLC program) Even if they put Geno in base, a GQ rep would easily be a DLC choice. They would get a new stage, and would get a Music Icon(Geno and DQ music is probably a lot cheaper then FF music)
After basically finishing this long post I decided to change this to Geno Base roster. While I see it still happening, for this example i'm going with Geno, as it fits a bit better. I didn't want to delete what I wrote so I striked this and the last 2 original points out just to see my reasoning. With Geno he could get a stage, but not his own music Icon. I still feel though that Dragon Quest is a very high chance as DLC, as I'm sure they would want to push this series as its reputation and gaming legacy is unmatched.
5.Elma OR Bandana Waddle Dee. if we get any more new unique fighters from an existing series, it would be one of these 2. Elma , and the Xenoblade series is a favorite of Sakurai, and he may want to give X some love in this game, as XB2 was too early in development for Rex and Pyra(who I see easily as DLC) Elma has a high chance because of that. However, Bandana Waddle Dee's popularity is freaking massive it seems like, and is a Sakurai created character. its possible he could be in over Elma. My money is on Elma, but wanted to list Waddle Dee as I can see it. No new stage's for either and they already have series Icons.
6.Isaac, OR Banjo and Kazooie. This is such a hard choice for me to make, and some people may say, replace the 4th choice with one of these, but With the evidence shown I cannot(Unless certain things happen which I explain. If both of these get in, the would both need a music icon... and that would be 4 Music icons, when we only have room for 3. They would also both get stages, which would give us 6 stages, when we only have room for 5. HOWEVER, its possible the retro won't get a stage, and if its Geno he may not have a music Icon. if those things happen, then yes the 5th slot could be replaced with one from here. If I wasn't so torn on Geno or Dragon Quest character, I would do that. I just cannot ignore the fact that DQ could happen over geno for base game, but I would like either option..
As I stated in the other non striked part for 4, and with what I said in 6, gonna go with my gut after thinking it ou. I still feel like dragon quest is just as likely as a base game and geno as DLC, which would mean I would have to go with my original striked words, and thats why I left them there so you can see those thoughts. However, for simplicity sake and going the more likely route, i had to change. I'll quickly redo a shorter 5 and 6 below.
5. Isaac. Feel like this is super popular, underated game. Most likely was decently high in the polls, which is being looked at closely. plus Golden sun did get its copyright renewed earlier then normal for nintendo just doing their auto renewals.
6. Banjo and Kazooie. Would be the most hype way to finish, and with Verg talking about he keeps hearing about a likely Minecrafted themed stage or content, I see Sakurai getting the bear and the bird into smash as well. he Wanted them in Melee, and this would be a huge milestone for many gamers. Would have a stage and music Icon(the Mine craft stage coming as well but its music would be under other.
As for the echos.
1. Ken: While I want Akuma, I am accepting Ken is happening.
2. Shadow. Other then ken he just makes the most sense for an echo.
3. Dixie Kong. I know I may get crap but isabelle doesn't solidify Dixie as being unique. If she was going to be in as a unique she would have appeared with K Rool, and that end part of the trailer just screens "Start of dixie echo trailer". Plus, Isabelle is MUCH bigger then Dixie and I don't think Sakurai could make a character that important an echo. Dixie will have the chrom treatment.
4. Medusa. Another Villain, and our first female villain. Could be a super easy echo of Palutena, just replace down b with Heavenly light(but dakr of course), add dark and snake effects to some moves over the wings, and you are sold. Plus she is a Sakurai baby so it would be easy to get her in.
5. Black Shadow. Melee Ganondorf, but even more like falcon. same run pose, lose the unique tilt A and any other uniqe moves melee ganondorf had, and you got a Melee playstyle basically back, like with Pichu and Young Link.
6. Impa. If Mario and FE are getting an echo, Zelda is too. Impa is a staple of the series in multiple games, so her being a rep as a clone of shielk makes sense. Now what version they would use is anyones guess. I would love hyrule warrios looks but that may be somewhat tied to Techmo, so I can see either OoT look or Skyward sword look(as thats one of the main 3d zelda games not represented by a character design(Shiek still seems to be sporting the if she was in twilit princess look)
So, those are my choices, and the long reasons how I got to this number, and how the box theory is totally stupid and debunked in my eyes. sorry for the massive post... I needed to get that out there
Yeah the room. that is still improtant. I mean what other characters can it mean? I think everyone is set on skullkid as a boss, given LoZ18 vanishing and how the story mode will have bosses. The only other one is rayman on only the chairs point towards him.
I believe he is in but I don’t think the room was pointing to him they’re probably saving him as the final hype fighter. Banjo would be considered dlc due to phill
someone had the theory that the room represented Animal Crossing because everything was random like building a house... I don't know though. I've never played it.
I dont think it was. it was pretty much Arabian themed just like k rool was jungle themed in the e3 direct
That's a pretty good theory actually.
I can kinda see that lol. It is random, but could work in Sakurai's mind haha
Unfortunately, that sentiment even pervades the Ultimate thread, every single time IGuessItsOver brings her up. Bless his heart, he tries, but that's still akin to trying to part the ocean with a sword.
It's not like Yacht Club Games can afford to make any other games right now, so they go full-hog on advertising him elsewhere.Shovel Knight shows up in so much garbage it makes me dislike him which is unfortunate because SK is actually a great game
Seriously what the **** bro
I just read that haha. Nice work! I would have posted more on my rate there but spent so long working on a different post I burned myself out haha
This, 100 times. All these current fan polls are pointless as long as Nintendo has absolutely nothing to do with them.
Done and done. I appreciate you and everyone who went into that thread
Barring the lack of relevancy towards Nintendo, he bigger problem I have with these sort of things is actually how many people online seem to be too galvanized for/against characters to have any decent conversation. Whenever something like RTC comes around, it often invites especially passionate individuals--which isn't a bad thing, might I clarify. It's just that sort of situation is likely to create heated deadlocks where people on both sides of the argument only leave with headaches and little or no progress in meaningful discussion.
You know, it's no wonder most characters barely get any support, many people don't agree about them and just want what they think should be the popular picks instead. Some support groups are just metaphorical rams headbutting each other.
Exactly. This is where the bandwagon phenomenon comes into play as well. People tend to love the perceived popular picks. Nobody really wants to be on the "losing side" (as if there even is one to begin with).
Uhhhh huh the Monkey can also SCRATCH with its monkey claw....Jeez.
I keep telling myself this. If Minecraft Steve made it in, man will the Shovel Knight, Shantae, and especially the Banjo Kazooie fandom will have heated salt if this happens.
Sakurai's design skills have made me get over my deep seated hatred for Pac-Man, Ridley, playable MIis, Duck Hunt, and now King K. Rool.
Why would we be salty? Minecraft Steve doesn't affect our chances in the slightest.
You don't deserve ANYTHING!
It’s this feeling and a thought I had on one of my morning walks. You could say it’s a really stupid theory. It’s because Minecraft Steve at one point was the face of indies (don’t know if still is or not) and SK/Shantae are indie themselves, and for the Banjo part it’s because they’re own by Microsoft. Sort of a killing two birds with one stone effect...Then again people will just listen to the loud minority rather than the more larger and quieter minority. Sometimes I think way too much.
Subscribe me
I thought I wrote an essay in there, but damn you have sources and everything hahahaha.
I don't play around when it comes to my Shantae facts.
Yup. To me, anyone noteworthy enough should be approved (as long as they showed up on a Nintendo thing, anyway).
I kinda feel the same way. Besides a select few like Dante (INB4 people slam me [again] for actually thinking he has a chance), I'm not really opposed to anyone except if they hurt the chances of or steal the slot from my most wanted (Examples for Shantae would include Travis and Steve), considering how they (almost) all have legitimate fans with memories attached to the character and reasons why they'd be a good inclusion in the game.
Freelance Spy
's post on the RTC thread should be added to the OP so people who haven't been following Shantae news can know why others are rating her chances so highly.
You're still welcome on here, man! We're quite a bit frenzied about hoping that she'll make into Smash Bros, so we're semi-blind to viable options. ^^;It feels weird coming back to this thread since it feels like everyone here hates me for my comments on the RTC thread (where I gave Shantae a 1% regarding her chances as a fighter). For what it's worth, I was not aware of WF's secrecy whenever Shantae is brought up in Smash as well as the other hints like the jammie mode trailer and that exeggutor/warioware hint. I admittingly still think her chances as a playable fighter are pretty low even when learning of this and completely ignoring the whole SK argument; if I could change my chance% I'd probably make it either a 5 or 10 since third party slots are still extremely limited. That said, I think the main points from
Either way, I really want Shantae as a fighter regardless of her chances as I love the Shantae games and WayForward in general. I still remember hearing about Risky's Revenge in an issue of Nintendo Power (this one to be specific) and finally getting to play it along with Mighty Switch Force when I finally got my 3DS on the Christmas of 2011. I also made several Steam guides for a few Shantae games in the past (not sure if I'm allowed to post them) and created the Patricia Wagon support thread back in the SSB4 days in case anyone is doubting my loyalty to WF.
So uh... am I still welcome here?
No on hates you... at least not in publicIt feels weird coming back to this thread since it feels like everyone here hates me for my comments on the RTC thread (where I gave Shantae a 1% regarding her chances as a fighter). For what it's worth, I was not aware of WF's secrecy whenever Shantae is brought up in Smash as well as the other hints like the jammie mode trailer and that exeggutor/warioware hint. I admittingly still think her chances as a playable fighter are pretty low even when learning of this and completely ignoring the whole SK argument; if I could change my chance% I'd probably make it either a 5 or 10 since third party slots are still extremely limited. That said, I think the main points from
Either way, I really want Shantae as a fighter regardless of her chances as I love the Shantae games and WayForward in general. I still remember hearing about Risky's Revenge in an issue of Nintendo Power (this one to be specific) and finally getting to play it along with Mighty Switch Force when I finally got my 3DS on the Christmas of 2011. I also made several Steam guides for a few Shantae games in the past (not sure if I'm allowed to post them) and created the Patricia Wagon support thread back in the SSB4 days in case anyone is doubting my loyalty to WF.
So uh... am I still welcome here?
Not as pathetic as that time I tried to refute Gardevoir being Waifu-bait and they didn't even look at my point and doubled down.
I was tempted to put in a spiel about the history Shantae has had with Nintendo and how her games pay homage to theirs in various ways...
I use strictly male gardevoir only.
That was almost the exact point I used (If it is Waifu-bait, why do I currently have a male one on my team). Some people.
