Slugma128
really out here demonstrating that the desire for big boobs in video games has nothing to do with sexism.
To take on your first point, while this may not seem like much of an argument, it’s a video game. Video Games portray the unrealistic and this is just one instance. While I agree, stripping in the middle of a fight is dumb and unrealistic, it doesn’t hurt Bayonetta. We have characters in fighting games that definitely do unrealistic fighting methods, see Phoenix Wright in MvC who attempts to solve a court case in the midst of combat, or Incineroar in Smash as he leaves himself wide open for attacks when he does his wrestler motions. While I can see this as a point of how she’s unrealistic, that only hurts if you’re looking for realism, otherwise it is just a character trait made to make her distinct in a world full of plenty similar fighters who are boring and bring nothing distinct or new.
1. It's in Bayonetta's game also, not just in Smash, so it's not just about Smash's realism. It also belies the frequent claim that characters like Bayonetta "show that a woman can be strong AND sexy*". That's not a lesson that actually needs to be taught - women don't need a message that they can shoot guns and stick their boobs or ass out at the same time, that's a stupid lesson and it doesn't hold up in real life. The fact that it's totally unrealistic means that this is not a lesson, it's a fantasy. But it's a fantasy for men, IMO.
*Sexy in a particular way, such as being skinny in a way that suggests little muscle mass, having very large breasts, and wearing impractically revealing clothing during combat. You may, of course, find real life female soldiers sexy, but they aren't likely to be waifish and certainly won't be wearing thongs into combat.
2. There are far more female characters that are made "distinct" by having them be sexy and flirty (or girly/childish and frivolous, for that matter) than male characters. There are so many media franchises where there are male characters displaying various traits, and then there's the girl, whose power is that she's girly or sexy. Consider the Smurfs, where the male smurfs embody all sorts of character traits... and then there's Smurfette, whose personality is "girl".
3. The sexiness of Bayonetta,
particularly in her game, is often clearly aimed at
the player, not the other characters. Many of her poses work for the in-game "camera" but would not work for her opponents. If her opponent can't see her sexy poses, who are they for? They are for an audience that doesn't exist within the game. When the camera focuses on her crotch or butt, is it visible to her opponent? Or is it playing for a camera that doesn't exist within the game universe? When she's fighting non-humanoid monsters, who is she being sexy for? There would be no point to being sexy while fighting off a pack of wolves, for example. The notion that her sexiness is not aimed at the audience and makes total sense within universe is quite dubious.
And the way Bayonetta is/was marketed in many ways (often with pictures concentrating on her crotch or butt and exposed back) belies some of these defenses as well. They had an ad campaign where you literally stripped stickers off to expose that she was naked (covered only with her hair). It's about her powerful personality, yet the marketing concentrates on her body without any of that supposedly exonerating context.
But it's not just that any female character like this is automatically a problem (although there certainly are some that would be offensive in any context). It's also that this type of character is far more frequent for female characters. Male characters tend to display a larger range of personality types, while the lazy route for a female character is to make her distinct by making her sexy or girly/prissy. This pattern suggests that men have a full internal life, while women do not.
Hence you get misogynistic comments like "When it comes to women, it is all about their emotions."
I used Bravo as more of a personality type, to show that this sexual devil type character extends to both genders.
But the pure existence of male counterparts doesn't prove anything. The claim isn't that no male characters are portrayed this way, the claim is that women are portrayed this way
far more frequently, to a degree that is a problem.
I did bring up another character though that was more adult being Doctor Fate from the recent Suicide Squad Hell To Pay. He is eerily similar to Bayonetta, choosing to strip even when his life is in danger and having a more prominent sexual characterization.
[...]
The character basically fits Bayonetta, but on the other shoes. He’s made to be titillating, he has the body of a model, he has very similar ways of expressing his sexuality, and has god like powers that allow him to basically not care about anything.
Ok, let's consider some DC characters then... the Justice League cartoons, for example:
Superman, Batman, Martian Manhunter, Green Arrow, Flash... 5 male members
Wonder Woman, Hawkgirl... 2 female members
Of the male members, only Martian Manhunter exposes much skin, and he's a green alien and I wouldn't say he's portrayed as sexy. The rest are not even plausibly sexualized.
Of the two female members, both expose their shoulders, and Wonder Woman shows her whole legs. Both of them have unrealistically small waists, and despite being an adult woman, Hawkgirl is called "girl". The tiny waists/exaggerated hourglass figures on female characters are a common feature of DC animation in general (aside from the original Batman TAS).
In the movie you're talking about, there are several male members of Suicide Squad, all dressed in ways to protect their bodies, and the two female characters are wearing the lightest clothing, and Harley Quinn is wearing short-shorts and exposed shoulders. Again, it is only the female members of the team that are at all concerned with being sexy while on dangerous missions. More minor characters like Silver Banshee and Knockout are also dressed impractically exposed, Jewelee to a lesser extent (only her shoulders). Scandal Savage is dressed like a normal person. So you have Doctor Fate, while basically all the other male characters are not sexualized or dressed sexily despite going into dangerous situations. While for the women, you have Scandal Savage, with every other female character exposing their shoulders, midriffs, thighs, back, etc. while going into battle.
This movie is thus a good example of how men are really treated the same as women? Where the women almost all prioritize being sexy over safety, and almost all of the men dress for combat? Come the **** on.
This is sort of a thin ice comment. You have to remember that franchises have fans, fans that like things a certain way so changing things too radically will send a negative message to the audience.
This is just offloading responsibility onto the fans. At least that's better than offloading onto decisions made in the 80s.
The devs are responsible for what they put in the game. Full stop. Saying it's primarily anyone else's responsibility is just bad faith.
And anyway, what negative message would they be sending by having the female characters dress appropriately for the roles they have in their games? Did Brawl send a negative message by having ZSS not wear short-shorts and not wear high heels? What negative message are you talking about? This claim is incredibly vague and unsupported.
This idea is of changing things to avoid controversy or be progressive may actually be harmful as we’ve seen with Star Wars, Marvel, and so many other franchises.
Star Wars and Marvel movies are massive financial successes.
The Last Jedi, which is the most criticized on this basis (criticisms I disagree with), made $1.3 billion on a budget of $300m.
Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse, which I guess is sending a negative message somehow by showing non-white and/or female characters as superheroes (or maybe you don't intend this as a harmfully progressive film?) is the best reviewed Spider-Man ever and is a financial success with a sequel and spinoff already in planning stages.
You're going to have to elaborate on what supposedly has been harmful.