Secrets of The Seven Sages: Link's Brainstorming Thread, Complete AT list and Combos

[Scabe]

Alright I've started recording and got tons of stuff.

The video's will be very basic for now just to show everyone what things look like. Once we get testing and know all details I'll make a better vid with tutorials etc.

Anyways Arizen made a cool name. "Gale Spike", Happens for those things like Dtilting the opponent in Gale return.

I've also started recording examples for the Bomb section of the AT's.

I think I've done Invincibomb (Ibomb), The Invincibomb Drop, C4, correctly. I'm not sure how to do slope bombing.

 

[Scabe]

Ugh I hate my internet and how it double posts I'll just turn this into a post.

For accurate full detailed testing I need some critieria. Here's some I got so far, I need your help to come up with some more, so in the future we know what to do when we're testing.

• What percents does this work on? Does it work at certain percents, does it still work at 999 percent?
• Test this on every character
• Test this on stages with platforms and without platforms. Better to test on every stage (preferably the viable ones)
• Confirmation of this actually happening in a real match. (Video proof is the best)

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I thought that would get people interested XD. Yes, this is happening, this is for real. Fox doesn't lie.
Let's see, I'll just answer everyone.

Wat Zair to Dtilt spike and a true combo!?

You betcha. I couldn't believe it myself when I did it, but I was able to re-create it many times and spike people off stage and on stage as I said. It's gotta be the most broken thing I've ever seen, the problem is getting it to work consistently.
In order for Link to True Combo out of Zair, you need to use it so the chain hits them just before you land (in other words, just hitting them with the chain and not the claw). It's not good for spacing, but it means that you can true combo out of it.

Edit: In the case of getting the D-tilt spike hitbox, it may not be a true combo. DI/SDI could affect it's consistency.

At points in which ive spiked before are the hilt or something touching Link, i think can be done backwards as well. Also can be done when striking someone with the center of the blade, which can actually spike people hanging on the ledge. I think i did it once in a 3 way ffa, i think scabe has the replay.

Also i think its also important to note that Dtilt Spike may be like Pits Dtilt spike, in that there are only a set amount of characters you can dtilt spike while they hang on the ledge. However, the middle of the sword spike may actually hit everyone. It something that may need to be tested.

Also as far as i can tell, for a spike to actually land. It seems to require you to hit the appropriate hurt box. For Pit its like the top and the bottom. I assume its the same for Link, as ive only been able to spike by hitting their heads or their feet just at the right spot with just the right spot of the sword.

Also it seems like Scabe's idea about Link's Move discussion could have actually help or atleast be a place to organize some of these things.

Yeah I'm pretty sure it's the middle of the sword that I was spiking with now that I look back on yesterday. The only reason that I may have thought it was near the tip is because Link just has such a long sword compared to Toon. My bad XD.
I'd just like to draw everyone's attention to this for a second "Also as far as i can tell, for a spike to actually land. It seems to require you to hit the appropriate hurt box. For Pit its like the top and the bottom. I assume its the same for Link, as ive only been able to spike by hitting their heads or their feet just at the right spot with just the right spot of the sword."
I think you are dead on here. This would explain a lot and could seriously help me out if I can get some confirmation or if it's already been tested. If it hasn't been tested, I'll test it. That's how it works around here.
Thank you for that insightful input.

From what I understand, the spike connects if you hit with the hitbox that is in Link's body or the hitbox that is the middle of the blade, not the hilt or the tip, and ONLY in the middle of the blade, because the other two hitboxes have more priority and override the spike if they also hit.

I'm not gonna lie, this is all nuts. I knew Link had a good bit of potential, but I'm finding all of this amazing. Is this for real? It all seems too good to be true.

This is good stuff here. Any info like this will help me out tremendously. And yes, this is for real.

Huggles, FiOD is a God. I worship him. This is true. ^_~

lolz, I just had to quote that. You never know when that sort of thing could come in handy. And for the record, I'm a direct decendant from one of the seven sages, we've been over this XD.

I combo Zair into jabs, Fsmash, and Dsmash, for some reason my grabs always miss.
That's interesting, I didn't know of any true Zair combos. Dtilt spikes are unlikely because the edge snap characters have, but they can'y edge grab when in hitstun. We should look into this further...

Great work people!

Great pic btw. I didn't quote it for space reasons, but that seriously helped me see what I'm trying to connect with. That middle spiking hitbox. And then on top of that I may have to factor in hitting certain parts of people and so on. There's a lot to do.
In order to get the grab after Zair, I find it easier if I dash forward a bit after the Zair and grab them out of mid-air with the hand hitbox of the grab (not the tip of the chain hitbox, which does not grab out of the air). Also, you need to keep in mind that all these Zair true combos have to be done in a certain way that Link isn't used to. You need to use your Zair later than usual in order for the Chain to hit close up and then cancel. I'm sure you understand.
The edge doesn't come into it. They are in hitstun from the Zair (as you said) and then they are D-tilt spiked before they can do anything. Not only this but it's usually too far away from the edge. The point is, it works. I've done it myself and seen it with my own eyes.
And don't worry, I'm gonna make sure this gets looked into further, just as soon as I get a spare 5 minutes that I'm bored enough to do some testing XD.

I'm not sure how to do slope bombing.

Haven't you seen me do it before? Anyway, you'll know that you've done it when the Bomb kind of slowly grinds (it's really just very fast and very small bouncing) down the slope and has that white aura I mentioned in the decription. You're better off going to Yoshi's Melee and trying it on the right side where that dirt slope is. Then you just need to Z-drop it at the right time, prefferably on the way up.
If you want, you can show the vid to me before you release it and I'll let you know if it's all correct. I got your back Scabe, so dw.






If anyone wanted to know what characters I've been able to get it to work on, yesterday (I haven't done any more testing since then), I tried it on Mario, MK, Fox and Snake. I was able to make it work on all of them on-stage and then I tried it on Fox off-stage and was able to make it work a few times. I was quite amazed at this point so I thought I'd let you know. I haven't tried it on anyone else on or off stage other than the characters already listed, so it's up in the air atm as to which characters this can work on or if it makes any difference if their off stage. It shouldn't, but I'm not going to jump to conclusions.

So that's it then. I'll let you know when I do some more testing on this. Feel free to check it out yourselves and report your findings. In the mean time, I'll try to answer any questions about it and we can continue discussing any topic in the OP or we can create new topics of discussion. Not that it should be a problem atm because I would imagine that people are still interested in this topic.

 

[Rizen]

In order for Link to True Combo out of Zair, you need to use it so the chain hits them just before you land (in other words, just hitting them with the chain and not the claw)1. It's not good for spacing, but it means that you can true combo out of it.


I'd just like to draw everyone's attention to this for a second "Also as far as i can tell, for a spike to actually land. It seems to require you to hit the appropriate hurt box. For Pit its like the top and the bottom. I assume its the same for Link, as ive only been able to spike by hitting their heads or their feet just at the right spot with just the right spot of the sword."2
I think you are dead on here. This would explain a lot and could seriously help me out if I can get some confirmation or if it's already been tested. If it hasn't been tested, I'll test it. That's how it works around here.

Great pic btw. I didn't quote it for space reasons, but that seriously helped me see what I'm trying to connect with. That middle spiking hitbox. And then on top of that I may have to factor in hitting certain parts of people and so on. There's a lot to do.
In order to get the grab after Zair, I find it easier if I dash forward a bit after the Zair and grab them out of mid-air with the hand hitbox of the grab (not the tip of the chain hitbox, which does not grab out of the air). Also, you need to keep in mind that all these Zair true combos have to be done in a certain way that Link isn't used to. You need to use your Zair later than usual in order for the Chain to hit close up and then cancel. I'm sure you understand. 3
The edge doesn't come into it. They are in hitstun from the Zair (as you said) and then they are D-tilt spiked before they can do anything. Not only this but it's usually too far away from the edge. The point is, it works. I've done it myself and seen it with my own eyes.4

A few notes:
1 the claw is the only Zair hitbox, you just have to start right before you land.
2 The Dtilt non-spike hitbubbles have priority, if those touch the move will launch up. Hitting a character's head or feet makes it less likely for non-spike bubbles to overlap but the only factor that determines the spike is the hitbubble.
3 A TLink does this to me. I didn't know it was a true combo for either character.
4 Cool, I was thinking by the edge it might also be a good gimp tool for Link because without Zair the edge snap ruins most spike KOs.

 

[IYM!]

Dtilt spike is dificult to do -F****** Sakurai, why nerfed Dtilt spike of link???? WHY???- ejem.... ,
i will try Zair Dtilt combo, maybe this work

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

@Rizen: 1, fair enough. We have to get these facts right.
2, I actually understand this now. When I posted that, I didn't know anything about the Spike, but I figured all that stuff out that you just said with a few simple tests. But thanks for clearing that up anyway. I spose it's just a confirmation of the conclusions I already came to. It probably could have saved me a bit of time if I had of known this earlier XD, but dw.
3, I don't know if it's a true combo with either for sure, but I can say that I'm fairly certian that if you do it correctly, it is. I just haven't tested it yet. That's actually one of the next things I'm going to test for Toon.
4, It is a fantastic gimp option. The spike seems quite powerful and I can see it being used as a killing tool and not just a gimping tool. Even at extremely low percents, with the added 'wtf factor', I can't see anyone reacting in time to recover. So yeah, no edge snap + decent spike + wtf factor = a killer combo.



Anyway, I did some more testing! And it's good news!
I tested it on every character to see who it would work on and I was able to make it work on everyone! The entire cast! But before you wet yourself, you must know that some characters are much harder than others and before you get all downcast, you must know that some characters are very very easy to spike.
It all depends on three factors. How far they get hit away with Zair. How high they get hit with Zair. And finally, where their hurtboxes are while they are getting hit away.

Before I go through the list of Char's, I think I'm in a position to tell you how to perform this. After all the testing, I found that the easiest way was to SH, drift towards them, Zair close to the ground, hit them as close as possible, continue to drift towards them until you land and then D-tilt asap. For some char's and for higher percents, you may need to continue to hold towards them for a little bit after you land so you can walk forwards a tiny bit and then D-tilt in order to close the gap better. Other then that, it's all just to do with getting a really good idea of where the D-tilt spike hitbox is. This just comes with practise.

I'm going to go through the list of char's and tell you what's going on with them.
Remember, I was able to combo Zair into D-tilt spike on everyone. As I found out, it does not make any difference whether you try it so you spike them into the ground to set up a Jab lock or if you spike them off stage. It still connects the same.

As I go through the list, unless I specify, it works on low to medium percents. Any higher and it would make things a lot harder (but not neccesarily impossible. It just means you have to walk forwards a tiny bit before you D-tilt.) I will at some point, go through the list and specify exactly at what percentages it works at for each char.


Mario: Fairly straight forward. Medium difficulty.

Luigi: Ditto.

Peach: A little bit harder because of floatiness. You may have to ever so slightly delay the D-tilt (it will still register as a TC.)

Bowser: Very Hard. For Bowser, because he only gets hit up a little bit and because he has a lot of hurtbox (he's fat), you need to get him to higher percents first (70ish) in order to get the rest of his body out of the way.

Donkey Kong: Very Hard. You need to hit his foot. You'll see what I mean. He sort of sticks his foot out in a nice spot to hit it, but you also have to avoid his other foot (otherwise it won't spike). (Works at the usual low to medium percents, just thought I'd clear that up, but remember, if I don't specify, it means it works at low to medium percents.)

Diddy Kong: Fairly straight forward. Medium difficulty.

Yoshi: Ditto.

Wario: Ditto.

Link: Ditto.

Zelda: Ditto.

Sheik: Very Hard. With some characters, it only seems to work at a certain percent. This is because there is something very wrong about the way they get hit, so that you need to get them to a certain percent when they change their hurtbox animation or they simply get hit high enough. Sheik is one of these characters. It's possible, it's just it only seems to work at a specific percent which I will go into in more detail when I test to see what percents it works on for each char. For all other char's, that this happens to, I'll say, "Same as Sheik."

Ganondorf: Fairly straight forward. Medium difficulty.

Toon Link: Ditto.

Samus: This was an interesting one. You might even say it doesn't work. But we can true combo spike her out of the Zair, just not in the same way as the rest of the cast. You see, she floats over the spike hitbos of the middle of the sword. So the only way I found to spike her was to get close enough and hit her with the arm spike hitbox of Link (you know, right?). So it's still possible, just different.

Zero Suit Samus: lolz lolz lolz!!! This one is easy! There are only two characters that I reckon are simply dead easy to perform this on and ZSS is one of them. It's because the only thing we can hit is her skinny foot. It's really easy because of the small hurtbox. Nothing gets in the way! So as long as you line up the Spike hitbox just right, this one is as good as done! Poor ZSS.

Pit: Fairly straight forward. Medium difficulty.

Ice Climbers: This one is as simple as the average chars, but it's different because obviously, there are 'two characters'. So I just thought I'd give a special mention that sometimes you spike them both and sometimes you only spike one. Useful? I don't know. Perhaps for gimping purposes, it would be better that they were seperated.

R.O.B: This one was a little bit hard but only because you had to hit the very corner of his base thing. Not too much to worry about.

Kirby: This one is actually a little bit harder because he's so small. You need to Zair closer to the ground, but by doing this it means you get less drift in their direction. So you need to Zair, walk a little bit then D-tilt Spike.

Meta Knight: Fairly straight forward. Medium difficulty.

King D3: You need to hit his foot just like Donkey Kong. Medium difficulty.

Olimar: You may need to walk forwards a little. A bit harder.

Fox: Very Hard. Same as Sheik.

Falco: Fairly straight forward. Medium difficulty.

Wolf: Very minimal drift is needed. He doesn't get hit very far by Zair.

Captain Falcon: Fairly straight forward. Medium difficulty.

Pikachu: lolz lolz lolz. Very Easy!!!! This is dead simple. He gets hit in such a way that his body gets right out of the way and his thin tail sticks down in a really easy to hit way in the perfect spot to D-tilt spike. You really can't miss.

Ivysaur: Fairly straight forward. Medium difficulty.

Charizard: Ditto:

Squirtle: Ditto.

Lucario: Ditto.

Jigglypuff: Hard to time. You need to slightly delay the D-tilt because she floats over it.

Marth: Fairly straight forward. Medium difficulty.

Ike: Very Hard. Same as Sheik.

Ness: Fairly straight forward. Medium difficulty.

Lucas: Very Hard. Same as Sheik.

Mr.G@W: Fairly straight forward. Medium difficulty.

Snake: Easy. Not as easy as ZSS and Pikachu, but easy.

Sonic: Fairly straight forward. Medium difficulty.




I g2g.

I'll explain things and whatever later on.

Have fun with that.

 

[Huggles828]

This would be very nice if it works for certain. Can this be SDI'd out of? And does the first hit of zair have set knockback to ensure it could be a combo at any percent? It sure seems to me like this would be something that could be avoided with good DI. I hate to rain on parades, but we need to make sure this thing is bulletproof before we label it a true combo since a true combo is a pretty big deal in Brawl.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Zair doesn't have set knockback so it won't work on any percent. This can also be a good thing though. Take Bowser for example. We are able to get it to work on him only when he has higher percents but if Zair did have set knockback, it simply wouldn't work ever.

SDI would make a big difference but I'm pretty sure that on lowish percents it'll still be good to go. I'd have to test it with another player. You are right to bring it up though, we can't get ahead of ourselves. Because of the nature of the D-tilt spike, (being very hard to hit with because things have to be perfect), I would imagine that any kind of DI would make things difficult to ensure a spike every time.
It's a bit of a grey area atm though. I'm not sure how much you could SDI something like Zair at low percents.

For now, I'm going to say that we shouldn't call it a true combo until it's been tested with another player. I'll edit it out of my previous post. I think I mentioned it once.....

Thanks Huggles.

Edit: But yeah, it's like this, on most characters I could presume that with or without DI or SDI, Zair to D-tilt would be a true combo (That's just Zair for you). The problem is getting the spike hitbox to connect and I could presume that DI and/or SDI would affect it's consistency because there's not much room for error. I'd need to test it as I've said, with another person.

 

[Scabe]

Wow great work as always Foxy. You are the best

Also it seems hard to get jab lock going when you spike them into the ground.

 

[IYM!]

i hope this combo works, this help link to change a little his metagame, give him a new gimp move

 

[Scabe]

It'll be hard to pull of because of how easily it is to see a misplaced Zair and shield grab Link.

 

[Ryos4]

Not to mention if they know its coming, they could probably SDI out of the Zair making it impossible to space correctly for the spike.

 

[Scabe]

Hardly anyone ever SDI's Zair.

 

[IYM!]

T.T uii

i forgot SDI, I'll try anyway

 

[Rizen]

It'll be hard to pull of because of how easily it is to see a misplaced Zair and shield grab Link.

Yeah...
We could landing punish.
@ Fox:
Great work!
Is the method the same against low aerial characters as grounded ones?

"Before I go through the list of Char's, I think I'm in a position to tell you how to perform this. After all the testing, I found that the easiest way was to SH, drift towards them, Zair close to the ground, hit them as close as possible, continue to drift towards them until you land and then D-tilt asap."
No fast fall?

 

[quirkynature]

It'll be hard to pull of because of how easily it is to see a misplaced Zair and shield grab Link.

Misplaced Z-air shouldn't be a problem assuming you hit with the tip Z-air. Of course, that'd off the spike, too, wouldn't it?

Edit: Assume approaching Z-air is shielded. Stationary Z-airs should keep Link out of shield grab range (barring D3) and keep shield pressure on, wouldn't it?

I don't mean to be a douche and kill the truly awesome work Foxy (dude, massive PROPS) has done, but how much practical use can you guys see in a tourney? I haven't been to a legit tourney but judging by the vids, IDK if it'll be a game changer for Link...

 

[Scabe]

You should still be able to pull this off, because you do hit with the first hit of Zair sometimes. I shouldn't have tried to shut this down.

 

[quirkynature]

You should still be able to pull this off, because you do hit with the first hit of Zair sometimes. I shouldn't have tried to shut this down.

Shut it down? Hardly! We found a loophole and plugged it. At least there's now a nice use for Link's formerly useless D-tilt.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Wow great work as always Foxy. You are the best

Also it seems hard to get jab lock going when you spike them into the ground.

Really? I don't seem to find it hard. If you do it properly and you D-tilt spike them and they don't tech it, they literaly can't escape the Jab lock. I've found that I can just stand still and Jab asap after the D-tilt, but maybe with some char's you need to walk forwards a tiny bit first. Either way, I can't see it being a problem.

@ Fox:
Great work!
Is the method the same against low aerial characters as grounded ones?

"Before I go through the list of Char's, I think I'm in a position to tell you how to perform this. After all the testing, I found that the easiest way was to SH, drift towards them, Zair close to the ground, hit them as close as possible, continue to drift towards them until you land and then D-tilt asap."
No fast fall?

Low aerial char's? Um, I don't know... I haven't tested that. I would imagine that for low aerial char's, some char's would be easilly able to escape simply because by the time hitstun is over from the Zair, they are still out of range of the D-tilt. But with other char's, I can't see it being a problem. If anything, with some char's it might be easier to Zair them when they are low aerial. I could test this next time I have some time.
And no, I didn't need to fast fall. Besides, we want to drift as close as possible to where they get hit before we land and D-tilt. If you fast falled, you'd probably need to walk forwards a little bit. It should work, but the above method is just the one I've been using. Maybe you could test that and tell me how it worked out?




Ok, so let's talk about setting this up. It is obvious to you all that a major flaw in this is getting that miss-spaced Zair right up close. Well, this is the brain storming thread, this is why we're here. Let's think of some solutions.
So how are we going to pull this off in a real game? In a tourney no less.
If I was to be completely honest and possibly not that helpful, I would just say, it really shouldn't be that hard. Toon's get this all the time. But let's be more specific then that.
How about punishing laggy moves. This includes anything laggy, just laggy actions in general.
Another idea? SH airdodge towards your opponent, dodging an attack and canceling the airdodge with the Zair up close.
Punishing landing lag. It's do-able but maybe not that practical.

It can't be too hard.

I think the problem is that it has it's problems. You have to work for it in order for it to work. I think this could make a difference to Link's meta game and it will definitely make him slightly better as a characters (not many characters can combo into spikes), but it's not what some people may have been hoping for. There's no win button. I can't help you there XD.

People pull off things that are possible to stop all the time, things that are much more unlikely than this. Let's take the regular Jab lock set up for example. You jump, throw the bomb down, footstool, fast fall Nair to Jab. Oh but they could just shield the bomb. Oh but they could just DI/SDI the Bomb blast so they can't get footstooled. And so on. And yet people do this all the time. Just because something is hard to pull off or possible to stop, it doesn't mean it won't work.

All we can do is make it as good and as possible, as possible.

I love rambling on. It's fun.

Any other suggestions or ideas for how we can make this work and pull this off in a real game?

 

[Ryos4]

Well to be honest, it seems like it would be really hard to pull off just in general.

Though i think there is a pretty decent way to set this up though its really situational. Though i figure the most effective and safe way to attempt a Zair>Dtilt spike would be to use it at the end of a jab lock in progress. If you can get them into a jab lock and walk them to the edge, let them stand up Zair>Dtilt and go for the kill, because they wouldn't be coming back from that.

 

[Rizen]

Ok, so let's talk about setting this up. It is obvious to you all that a major flaw in this is getting that miss-spaced Zair right up close. Well, this is the brain storming thread, this is why we're here. Let's think of some solutions.
How about punishing laggy moves. This includes anything laggy, just laggy actions in general.
Another idea? SH airdodge towards your opponent, dodging an attack and canceling the airdodge with the Zair up close.

I like this idea. I often combo Zair>smash to stop powerful moves like smashes/Falcon punch/etc, we could Zair>Dtilt spike to punish moves. Zair has great disjoint, even used close, and high piercing priority, it's also a projectile eater. Air dodge a move>Zair>Dtilt brings us nice and close, maybe a good Dtilt arm hitbubble spike vs in-air opponents.

Mario fireball approaches>Zair eats it and we spike.
Link's Zair and grab will not be affected (other than damage) by Mario's cape; in other words, no flip or stun no mater what. If we could time it right, Mario will have a terrible time recovering.

I want to say the spike is at a sharp angle that launches down and away; we can spike opponents past a grab-able edge from higher pass-through platforms. Stages like Delfino, Smashville, Rainbow Cruse, etc have these.
Zair attacks as Link drops through platforms as long as the claw doesn't land on the platform.
If the spike's off we can always Utilt or smash. Considering how much Link relies on Zair we can spike at close spacing opportunities, most opponents want to break through.

Note that sloped edges and ground (like Yoshi's Island Brawl) affect Dtilt's attack angle.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Yes! Rizen you da bess! We have a useful and helpful input! That just made my day.

You know what, I'm gonna update. Right now. And you can be sure as hell that your post will be in there.


Any other useful and helpful inputs?
Rizen has the right idea. Let's hear those ideas!

 

[Mota]

Wow I definitely have to see this, can't wait for vids.

Good to see FIOD still working his magic

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Hey Mota XD!

Nice to see you around man.



Oh and I'm done updating.....

 

[Rizen]

I tried to spike a few Lv9 CPUs, it's very hard. People will be even harder. Be ready to use another follow-up attack after Zair if the spacing's off. Air dodging down on SHing opponents>Zair>arm spike Dtilt might be easier than approaching, spacing-wise.
Also, on pass through platforms be careful not to accidentally fall through and Dair instead of Dtilt.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Hmm, I'm not so sure about using lvl nine cpu's to test it on, but that's just me. I just get the feeling that in some ways it would be easier, but in others it would be harder. They're just not normal, you know?
Still, any kind of testing helps. Has anyone tried to use it on a real person yet? And by 'use it' I don't mean spam it until it works. Like any move that is hard to hit with or situational, you need to set it up and use it only when the situation presents itself. Also, before you try to use it on someone, at least practise it a bit first so you know the timing and especially the spacing. Spacing and timing is the key to this move.

Come to think of it, how many of you guys have tried this yet? How many have been able to pull it off? (Here's the big one) How consistently were you able to pull it off?

 

[Ryos4]

Randomly back to "dropkick" combo. I was watching Rwan's combo video, Link the Legendary. There was a point where he does a dropkick>bair. Seeing as Bair can combo from zair, I'm thinking it might be possible for the dropkick>bair combo to be true as well. But then again i might be wrong.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Nah that's fine. You can go back to any topic at any point or create new ones.

Dropkick to Bair? I think I did try that, but I can't remember... I'll get back to you when I've tested it, but from memory it didn't work. I hope I'm wrong cause that would be sick. It's possible I tried it in the early stages of testing so I may have not tried it yet in the best way possible.

 

[Scabe]

Dropick > Back air, I don't think it's a true combo but it's a pretty safe move.

 

[Scabe]

Dropick > Back air, I don't think it's a true combo but it's a pretty safe move.

 

[Ryos4]

double posts everywhere.

Even if its not a true combo, i bet it works great against floaty characters like Samus or Rob.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Nah, as I expected, Dropkick to SH instant Bair is not a true combo.

But I figured I'd stuff around for a bit to see if I can find anything else so I don't leave you empty handed and I found something. Did you guys know that you can combo Zair into a SH bomb D-throw? If you can't see where I'm going with this, then allow me to explain further. You obviously have to do a Zair with a Bomb and you have to Zair up close, but then you can combo that into a SH Bomb D-throw, Footstool, Nair, Fast fall the Nair, Jab Lock. I'm sure you must have known about that, right?

Anyway, possibly char specific, I'd have to check, but it's pretty ****.

True combo? Possibly not if they SDI the Zair away from you. But it did register as a consecutive hit.

 

[Huggles828]

Ooh, zair to bombstool? Excellent! There are a ton of nifty tricks in here. Nice work, Foxy.

 

[Scabe]

Wow never thought of that. :O

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

(face palm XD) Really? I was sure it would be known. Wow.
Sweet, well I'll quote my post in the Zair discussion then. At some point I'll give the list of characters a quick run through, but I'm fairly sure it should work on everyone. I tested it on DK and MK to see how much size would affect it and they both worked just fine.

I'm just quite surprised that this wasn't known because it really is amazing. Bombstools or whatever you call them should be much easier to pull off in a real game now, or at least, there will be more opportunites to pull them off.

I'll let you know when I find stuff.

 

[Scabe]

Here's a vid of Zair to Dtilt Spike. Sorry this is taking long, it really shouldn't I've been busy with work and lazy too XD. More to come.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNT2fT8niRY

 

[quirkynature]

So THAT'S what it looks like. I paused a little too much between my Z-air and D-tilt. Awesome!!

Thanks Scabe and Fox!

 

[Scabe]

I'm just going to release vids day by day. Here's Gale Spiking with Throws. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FrM-DmZ_0k

Also check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJhJ7Kn4H48#t=6m36s

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Zair to D-tilt Spike vid looks great! I can see what you mean now about you having that problem with doing a Jab lock straight after. Normally, from my experience, the Jab connects, but apparently with some characters like Link, it misses. So for those characters, as I said a while ago, you may have to walk a little forwards first. You have time to walk forwrads a little bit and Jab and still have it as a consecutive hit, so it should still be posible even with characters like Link to get that Jab lock. I'll quote that post.


So that's what you meant by Gale spiking! The name threw me off. If anything was misunderstood in the OP, I'll go over it and fix it. It should be right though (edit: it was). I'll also get that quoted in the Gale return section (edit: and I'll quote it in the Jab lock section where it was also mentioned).

Super Ganon da bess.

 

[Huggles828]

Nice vids, Scabe. I'm still a little worried about that zair to dtilt spike; it looks promising, but it's risky. It looks like an all-or-nothing situation; that's even closer than I was thinking for the zair to hit to get the spike. It's almost point blank. It looks excellent if it hits, but if you whiff, your spacing will be all sorts of screwed. Still, it looks like, at the very least, a useful mindgame tool against someone who thinks you're going to be focusing entirely on spacing. There's sure to be a way to use this.