Schools: Teaching abstinence vs giving condoms.

[Vorguen]

Private schools have the worse problems with these situations because they usually have the most faulty sexual education classes. If I remember correctly, in my private school there was hardly anything. In health class, I remember sex-ed was as simple as a two or three day talk lecture with a quiz at the end about what sex was, how it worked, and what diseases you can get. No talk of safe sex or contraceptives, only abstinence. I knew of like three girls who got unwanted pregnancies and actually, sad to say, I know they also got abortions. One of them aborted three pregnancies.

It is sad, but safe sex needs to be taught, more and more teenagers keep finding new ways of making very dumb decisions.

 

[.Marik]

It is sad, but safe sex talk needs to be taught, more and more teenagers keep finding new ways of making very dumb decisions.

This is true.

Religious/Private schools are very conservative upon traditions, and cultures.

So they fail to realize that in modern society, religion isn't that much of an important factor, and that the world is slowly becoming more liberal. So, while they only teach abstinence as to not breach their moral and religious code, nobody is even practicing that method anymore, due to the world becoming more liberal...

I mean, what's the harm teaching children more important methods of safe sex? Where I live, we talk about sex all the time. Right now in Science, we're discussing about the female reproduction system and menstruation.

Very informative, if I do say so myself... but that's beside the point.

It's not going to harm anybody, giving out condoms to youth. As for parental permission, I'm sure parents will say yes. If they say no, most likely kids are still going to have sex, protected or not.

 

[Vorguen]

That is the point. Kids will have sex regardless of what their parents, religions, and teachers tell them if that is what they have decided on already. Not that they won't be able to be influenced by them, and they might, but chances are the decision will come from within. That is why regardless of the setting students need to be informed of everything related to safe sex. If they want to make poor choices, at least they knew they had an alternative. What really makes me sad is when a teenage girl gets pregnant or a teenager gets an STD and they are scared because they didn't know that could happen. In that very scenario, being educated would have helped. Now if they intoxicated themselves to the point of recklessness, then it is their own folly.

 

[GwJ]

You can't have an "I told you so." ideal when it comes to sex, STDs, and children. Being educated isn't enough. I'm a teen, and I know for a fact teens are impatient and will find ways to do what they want even if they don't happen to have that item that's recommended. They're going to do it and if they think "Oh yea, I've got that condom still" then that's one problem prevented.

 

[Vorguen]

It's not a I told you so ideal. Parents are responsible for their children's safety and it is up to their discretion to allow their children to have condoms or not. If the child has unprotected sex because he was not allowed to have condoms, it is also partly the fault of the parent.

 

[GwJ]

I agree, but this is not a matter of whether or not they have access to condoms. This argument is whether or not we should be giving them to our children ourselves.

 

[M.K]

Condoms symbolize the safe idea of sex, however, if we encourage the act of sex (safe or unsafe), then we should be quick to inform the students of what "unsafe" sex can entail.
Handing a child a condom and saying "Don't have sex" is not a proper way of teaching sexual education. Sexual education is learning how the process works and the risks of the process.
Condoms are known to break/malfunction, so I believe we should first teach our children to abstain from all sexual behavior until marriage, and if that is not effective, strongly encourage the use of a condom at ALL times during sex.

 

[Vorguen]

Condoms symbolize the safe idea of sex, however, if we encourage the act of sex (safe or unsafe), then we should be quick to inform the students of what "unsafe" sex can entail.
Handing a child a condom and saying "Don't have sex" is not a proper way of teaching sexual education. Sexual education is learning how the process works and the risks of the process.
Condoms are known to break/malfunction, so I believe we should first teach our children to abstain from all sexual behavior until marriage, and if that is not effective, strongly encourage the use of a condom at ALL times during sex.

At least we are on the same page, that is exactly what I was stating earlier. It's like giving a teenager a bag with marijuana and telling him not to smoke it. Yeah, you didn't give him the lighter (or the other partner in the case of sex), but you pretty much got him ready. Giving out condoms encourages more sex in general. That is why having students be as informed as possible is the best course of action for schools, and having them equipped (or not) is left for the parents.

 

[GwJ]

Well I think that if the schools are teaching their students about the idea of safe sex they should be equipping the students for it. That's like going to college for dentistry and then living the rest of your days doing something else. Maybe not the best analogy. I just think that they should either do both, or none. Leave it all up to the schools or all up to the parents.

Also, I can really get used to debating here. This is making my trip to SWF much more enjoyable.

 

[Vorguen]

Schools teach math and give you no calculator. They teach chemistry and don't give you a Bunsen burner. They can easily teach you sexual education and not give you a condom.

 

[Wrath`]

Schools teach math and give you no calculator. They teach chemistry and don't give you a Bunsen burner. They can easily teach you sexual education and not give you a condom.

I don't know what school you've been to , our school let us borow calculators all the time, and in chem. we had the bunsen burner out for 90% of the labs we did.

As for a school not providing that stuff though, Calculators and bunsen burners are semi exspensive, condums are 50 cents or free if you go to birthright, so it's not like school scan't afford to give students condoms

 

[Vorguen]

Right, and I'm all for the school passing around a sample condom for students to look at and feel and maybe even put it on a broomstick. Just to make my last post more understandable for those who don't get it right away, I meant schools don't give away free calculators, Bunsen burners, and other equipment. They can have condoms to teach the necessary material, but not hand them out for students to keep. This has nothing to do with price either, I'm sure any school can afford to hand out condoms.

 

[ArcPoint]

I personally don't like the term "safe sex" because no matter what you do, if you have sexual intercourse, you are putting yourself at risk of having some sort of consequence. Using condoms plus other methods is just a "safer" sex


I'm all for informing people of the possibilities, just every side of the story, every option. But in no way should we encourage the act... just inform them of the consequences of said act.

 

[Vorguen]

There are such things as safe sex. Safety is a word taken in context. Either way, what about married couples having sex? Their sex is safe, especially if they are trying to have a child.

Technicalities aside, I think we are on the same page. Teach the students everything there is to know, but still discourage it. That is precisely why I am against handing out condoms, that goes hand-in-hand with encouraging it, even if it is going to be "safer" to your standards.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Some schools need to give out condoms, i live in san antonio and every other 15 year old is pregnant >_>

 

[ArcPoint]

And you think encouraging sexual behavior is going to reduce pregnancies?

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Giving out condoms is not "encouraging" sexual behavior. If that was the case then hospitals would not hand them out for free. Also think about it, there is no age limit for being able to buy condoms. The same kids can just go buy some if not given any.

That is up to the parents to "encourage" there kids, the school has really no power in that.

i also wanted to say that my post was more of a joke but in reality the schools i been to, someone should of gave them some condoms.

 

[ArcPoint]

If hospitals are giving them out for free, why not go there? The schools almost ARE encouraging sexual activity. If schools are trying to DISCOURAGE it, then why should we say "Hey, you're going to do it anyway, so here are the tools to having safer sex"

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Schools also tell you about STD's and such. What about that? That is some sorta encouragement to use condoms. Should they stop that?

 

[ArcPoint]

Informing, not equipping. Informing people about drugs is not encouraging that activity.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

But they are still encouraging them to use condoms IF they have sex.

same for them giving them condoms IF they have sex.

 

[ArcPoint]

But they are still encouraging them to use condoms IF they have sex.

same for them giving them condoms IF they have sex.

They're informing of possible consequences and courses of action. Not encouraging. They're just presenting options. Not GIVING them the tools to exhibit such an option.

 

[Vorguen]

Informing, not equipping. Informing people about drugs is not encouraging that activity.

I like that you used my line ArcPoint. My whole point as to giving out of condoms is the fact that it is violating the rights of the parents. It is stripping them of that authority and protection over their children. If kids want condoms, it is up to the parents to decide. If they want condoms bad enough to where they need to get them behind their parents back, they can go to a store or a hospital, not look to their schools. Schools should go in accordance to what parents want and think is best for their children, not against it, and not all parents would like their kids to be given condoms at school.

I know one thing, if my baby girl would come home with a condom from school, I would instantly remove her from there.

(this last sentence was merely a personal opinion sentence, not what I believe all parents should do)

They're informing of possible consequences and courses of action. Not encouraging. They're just presenting options. Not GIVING them the tools to exhibit such an option.

I could not have said it any better. Schools have one main responsibility, to educate the students.

 

[Wrath`]

I like that you used my line ArcPoint. My whole point as to giving out of condoms is the fact that it is violating the rights of the parents. It is stripping them of that authority and protection over their children. If kids want condoms, it is up to the parents to decide. If they want condoms bad enough to where they need to get them behind their parents back, they can go to a store or a hospital, not look to their schools. Schools should go in accordance to what parents want and think is best for their children, not against it, and not all parents would like their kids to be given condoms at school.

I know one thing, if my baby girl would come home with a condom from school, I would instantly remove her from there.

(this last sentence was merely a personal opinion sentence, not what I believe all parents should do)




I could not have said it any better. Schools have one main responsibility, to educate the students.

How is giving a comdum to a student violating a parents rights? Schools give out all sorts of things, pencils, bookmarks, ect. But the minute it has to do with sex it somehow violates rights? I laugh at authority of protection, you sent your kid to school, they are going to learn a lot of things you don't want them to, and to me condums are a good thing to learn, also if your kid does not know what a condum is by the grade they a school would most likely hand them out, then you some issuses.
And if you don't want your daughter to have the condum, THROW IT AWAY. Why go so far as to remover her from school()what if it was the only school in a 30 mile radius?). And what if she comes home with one, but told you she bought it? Is that just as bad as the school giving her one? Or worse? You couldn't protect what you think is right at the store.

 

[ArcPoint]

It doesn't violate parents' rights unless they don't have written consent (A signature for a permission form for example) My argument is simply that they shouldn't be encouraging sexual activity.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Schools handing out condoms are not encouraging sexual activity. It's more like "Hey if you are gonna have sex, be safe" it encourages people to be safe. Now if a school was like "Hey sex feels good and is fun" then that is something different.

Walmart selling helmets dont encourage you to ride a bike do they?

 

[GwJ]

I agree with Suspect. I can't really add much as he noted just about everything I think.

 

[ArcPoint]

If they're giving away free helmets (Not selling) , and their goal is to encourage not riding bikes, then yes.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Just like a school would be giving away free condoms, why would a school encourage sex?

 

[Miharu]

Schools handing out condoms are not encouraging sexual activity. It's more like "Hey if you are gonna have sex, be safe" it encourages people to be safe. Now if a school was like "Hey sex feels good and is fun" then that is something different.

I'm going to have to agree with this.

Ideally, in the eye of the public, schools should be doing a bit of both (teaching abstinence and giving out condoms). Abstinence isn't foolproof, and it's becoming less and less coming in today's world due mostly in part to the activities of the media.

The following passage is taken from my sociology text:

When it comes to sex among teenagers, the mass media is a powerful socializing agent but the school is not. According to recent research, teenagers, ages 12 to 17, who watch a lot of TV programs with sexual content are more likely to initiate sexual intercourse and other erotic activities as oral sex. It does not matter whether sex on TV is merely talked about or explicitly depicted. Both have the same impact on teen viewers (Conlon, 2004). Similar sexual content in other media---movies, music, and magazines---are also encourages teenagers to engage in sexual intercourse (Brown et al., 2006).

In recent years the school has been trying to persuade adolescents to abstain from sex before marriage in order to protect them against pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases. But a study ordered by U.S. Congress found that students who attended abstinence classes were just as likely to have sex and have similar numbers of sexual partners as students who did not (Freking, 2007)

So teaching abstinence doesn't do enough to stop teenagers from having sex. With this knowledge in mind, it's far from unreasonable for schools to hand out condoms as a safety measure.

 

[ArcPoint]

If the schools aren't encouraging it then what ARE they doing? Helping prevent it? Discouraging? Remaining neutral about it? A school is there to instruct, not give people the tools necessary to have sexual intercourse. It's essentially giving the school's approval of the act, which I disagree with.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

You dont have to have condoms to have sex.

 

[Wrath`]

If the schools aren't encouraging it then what ARE they doing? Helping prevent it? Discouraging? Remaining neutral about it? A school is there to instruct, not give people the tools necessary to have sexual intercourse. It's essentially giving the school's approval of the act, which I disagree with.

Proper tools, hell you have a *****. Thats the only tool nessacary, as suspect said, you don't have to out and have sex just because you have the tools.

(Sorry if a bit crude.)

Condums are a, "hey just in case you are about to do the deed, you have protection."

 

[Vorguen]

How is giving a comdum to a student violating a parents rights? Schools give out all sorts of things, pencils, bookmarks, ect. But the minute it has to do with sex it somehow violates rights? I laugh at authority of protection, you sent your kid to school, they are going to learn a lot of things you don't want them to, and to me condums are a good thing to learn, also if your kid does not know what a condum is by the grade they a school would most likely hand them out, then you some issuses.
And if you don't want your daughter to have the condum, THROW IT AWAY. Why go so far as to remover her from school()what if it was the only school in a 30 mile radius?). And what if she comes home with one, but told you she bought it? Is that just as bad as the school giving her one? Or worse? You couldn't protect what you think is right at the store.

Schools are institutions that are meant to educate us. I have explained to you that parents are the ones who need to decide on how to protect and keep their children safe, schools shouldn't be meddling in children's private lives. Also you are assuming if a student comes home with a condom you are assuming they would bring it to their parents attention. Chances are if the parent isn't okay with that, they will be keeping it from him. My point is in that scenario the school just aided the student in doing something against the parent's will. Yeah students have the choice to buy condoms at the store, but at least the school isn't the one handing them out.

This all revolves around schools getting way too involved in a student's private life. I had a friend who's mother (and she didn't have a father) moved three states away with her boyfriend and left her daughter alone in her house and just sent her money. The school found out and they told her she needed to find a relative or any other adult to live with or they wouldn't allow her to continue her enrollment in their school.

That is a huge problem, there is definitely something wrong with that. It reminds me of my high school, where we would get in trouble at school for doing anything wrong outside of school. They used the excuse that you were giving the school a "bad image".

It doesn't violate parents' rights unless they don't have written consent (A signature for a permission form for example) My argument is simply that they shouldn't be encouraging sexual activity.

Exactly. With a written consent to any of this the school is not violating the parents rights. If the schools find it absolutely necessary to have condoms they should have them in the nurses office and only hand them out to students with parental consent papers.

Schools handing out condoms are not encouraging sexual activity. It's more like "Hey if you are gonna have sex, be safe" it encourages people to be safe. Now if a school was like "Hey sex feels good and is fun" then that is something different.

Walmart selling helmets dont encourage you to ride a bike do they?

Handing a person out a condom facilitates their ability that much more to have sex. They can educate students on how to properly use them and where to find them as well. Handing out condoms is counterproductive to helping kids remain safe because it encourages them to want to use them, and if they don't have it with them or if they ran out, then what?

If they're giving away free helmets (Not selling) , and their goal is to encourage not riding bikes, then yes.

I agree to your point even though this statement is a little bit self-refuting. Would you encourage someone to not eat fast food and hand them out cheeseburgers?

I'm going to have to agree with this.

Ideally, in the eye of the public, schools should be doing a bit of both (teaching abstinence and giving out condoms). Abstinence isn't foolproof, and it's becoming less and less coming in today's world due mostly in part to the activities of the media.

The following passage is taken from my sociology text:



So teaching abstinence doesn't do enough to stop teenagers from having sex. With this knowledge in mind, it's far from unreasonable for schools to hand out condoms as a safety measure.

I understand teaching abstinence does not do this, and if you read above we are not against the idea of teaching safe sex. What we are disagreeing with is the handing out of condoms because of how it is affecting a parent's rights. It is unreasonable for schools to hand out condoms to their students. So if a school teaches a martial arts class they should hand out weapons to their students? As has been repeated a school is not supposed to give you the necessary tools for performing such acts that they are themselves trying to discourage.

If the schools aren't encouraging it then what ARE they doing? Helping prevent it? Discouraging? Remaining neutral about it? A school is there to instruct, not give people the tools necessary to have sexual intercourse. It's essentially giving the school's approval of the act, which I disagree with.

This statement summarizes my above explanation. It's like handing out someone hungry a cheeseburger and telling them they shouldn't eat it, your actions make the person feel the opposite of what you are saying.

You dont have to have condoms to have sex.

Right, and that is why the schools teach abstinence and safe sex, so that if they are presented in that kind of scenario they will make an intelligent decision.

Proper tools, hell you have a *****. Thats the only tool nessacary, as suspect said, you don't have to out and have sex just because you have the tools.

(Sorry if a bit crude.)

Condums are a, "hey just in case you are about to do the deed, you have protection."

You're right. Schools should hand out guns in high crime areas. That way if anyone is about to assault them they have the tools necessary to defend themselves.

 

[Wrath`]

Schools are institutions that are meant to educate us. I have explained to you that parents are the ones who need to decide on how to protect and keep their children safe, schools shouldn't be meddling in children's private lives. Also you are assuming if a student comes home with a condom you are assuming they would bring it to their parents attention. Chances are if the parent isn't okay with that, they will be keeping it from him. My point is in that scenario the school just aided the student in doing something against the parent's will. Yeah students have the choice to buy condoms at the store, but at least the school isn't the one handing them out.


Ok, so that means we should stop teaching evolution, I don't want it it interfearing with my child's private religous teachings.It might corrupt him/her.


You're right. Schools should hand out guns in high crime areas. That way if anyone is about to assault them they have the tools necessary to defend themselves.

Guns kill people, condums don't. It's not a great comparison at all.

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Guns dont kill people

people kill people

lol, sorry had to do it >_>

 

[Wrath`]

Guns dont kill people

people kill people

lol, sorry had to do it >_>

This topic need a bit of lightening up.

My final view on this is that if we are going to teach our kids sex-ed, we might as well give them some tools to use, if don't wan't your kids private lifes affected, homeschool them. The fact they they are out in public is going to affect private life views, I just think you are being overly sheltereitive(Is that a word?) Vorgun.

 

[ArcPoint]

Guns kill people, condums don't. It's not a great comparison at all.

The consequences both have life-changing attributes.

I concede that condoms aren't necessary to have sex, that was bad wording on my part ^_^.
I should have said the tools necessary for safe sex. Regardless, why stop at Condoms? Why not give them pills as well? Just in case the condom breaks. Why not demonstrate in class how to properly use one? Why not have designated sex rooms, so the teachers can monitor the students and see if they're doing it right... Bleh, I don't get the "They're going to do it anyway" logic. We should have a dumpster diving class offered at schools, because some people are going to become hobos anyway, so we might as well give them the right tools... >_>

 

[Vorguen]

This topic need a bit of lightening up.

My final view on this is that if we are going to teach our kids sex-ed, we might as well give them some tools to use, if don't wan't your kids private lifes affected, homeschool them. The fact they they are out in public is going to affect private life views, I just think you are being overly sheltereitive(Is that a word?) Vorgun.

If that was the case absolutely every kid would be homeschooled. I can assure you every parent has at least one complaint about the school their child goes to. It's not about going overboard with sheltering your children, this has to do with schools going to far. I explained to you how schools keep meddling more and more with their students' private lives and it is a huge disrespect to their parents. If parents can't make the decisions on a child's life and they see this, how are the children ever going to respect their parents then?

The consequences both have life-changing attributes.

I concede that condoms aren't necessary to have sex, that was bad wording on my part ^_^.
I should have said the tools necessary for safe sex. Regardless, why stop at Condoms? Why not give them pills as well? Just in case the condom breaks. Why not demonstrate in class how to properly use one? Why not have designated sex rooms, so the teachers can monitor the students and see if they're doing it right... Bleh, I don't get the "They're going to do it anyway" logic. We should have a dumpster diving class offered at schools, because some people are going to become hobos anyway, so we might as well give them the right tools... >_>

The hobos argument was kind of funny, but you bring a good point. You are correct even in your exaggerations. The logic behind "they are going to do it anyway" is based on the fact that some teenagers are still going to be doing it. What they forget to mention is not all of them will, and that some of them will listen. If you grab the teenager community as a whole yeah a big portion of them will still be doing what they want but it isn't the case with everyone.

 

[Wrath`]

The consequences both have life-changing attributes.

I concede that condoms aren't necessary to have sex, that was bad wording on my part ^_^.
I should have said the tools necessary for safe sex. Regardless, why stop at Condoms? Why not give them pills as well? Just in case the condom breaks. Why not demonstrate in class how to properly use one? Why not have designated sex rooms, so the teachers can monitor the students and see if they're doing it right... Bleh, I don't get the "They're going to do it anyway" logic. We should have a dumpster diving class offered at schools, because some people are going to become hobos anyway, so we might as well give them the right tools... >_>

I am not saying all are "going to do it", but a lot of teenagers do have sex, and this can lead pregnancy and all the other fun stuff that comes along with it. So, we give out condums in hopes to help prevent teen pregnancies and save some lives(in an emotinal way)

@dumpster diving class, damzn i can't think of anything to counter that.........

If that was the case absolutely every kid would be homeschooled. I can assure you every parent has at least one complaint about the school their child goes to. It's not about going overboard with sheltering your children, this has to do with schools going to far. I explained to you how schools keep meddling more and more with their students' private lives and it is a huge disrespect to their parents. If parents can't make the decisions on a child's life and they see this, how are the children ever going to respect their parents then?

But they really are not mediling by handing out condums, telling them t have sex would be interfering, but handing out condums is not saying to have sex, like handing out bookmarks is not saying for you to read, but if you do you are prepared. they are not forcing anything, so it is not an interference. Technicaly you make your own choices as you grow up, and by high school you are semi rebellious and you by then shouldn't be have]ing your parents making life descions for you. It is called responsibility



The hobos argument was kind of funny, but you bring a good point. You are correct even in your exaggerations. The logic behind "they are going to do it anyway" is based on the fact that some teenagers are still going to be doing it. What they forget to mention is not all of them will, and that some of them will listen. If you grab the teenager community as a whole yeah a big portion of them will still be doing what they want but it isn't the case with everyone.

Yes, some will listen, so how will handing out condums affect them in the slighest?