Schools: Teaching abstinence vs giving condoms.

[Aorist]

Whoops, sorry, that was addressed to Cheapless Jared. I'll edit the quote in momentarily.

With regards to your point, though, Vorguen, I don't think the child should have to bear the problems caused by their parents' ill judgment. The safety restraints in cars aren't optional, based on what the parents believe the chances of their children getting killed are.

Why shouldn't the safety of children also be the responsibility of the schools?

 

[Vorguen]

Then why should parents even raise their children? Lets just have parents birth children and send them off to institutions to take care of them.

 

[Aorist]

I'm not even going to go near that ridiculous strawman. I'm just saying that we shouldn't rely on possibly untrustworthy parents for the safety of children. Parents provide a variety of things aside from safety, you know.

 

[Narukari]

Then why should parents even raise their children? Lets just have parents birth children and send them off to institutions to take care of them.

How does this have anything to do with whether condoms are available to students?

Because when you keep the school systems local, you can have an education system that reflects the values of the children's parents.

No it is the job of the parents to keep their children safe. They can then push the school to enact certain safety measures to further help out the students in their safety. So if they want to do that as well with condoms, they can sign a permission slip. All problems are solved, the school can hand out condoms on a permission basis now.

Schools are liable for anything that happens to the children while they are in school, so the law has decided that it is up to the schools to protect the children.

This is why some matters are not up to the parents in any way, shape, or form. If 90% of the parents said they don't think a crossing guard is necessary, because they raised their children to look both ways, the school probably wouldn't listen to them. This is because if a child gets ran over crossing the street, the school would be blamed for not having a crossing guard.

They can push the school to enact certain safety measures to further help out the students in their safety.

This is what I have been saying the whole time. Board meetings enable the parents to have a say in school policy. If something is happening in the school, for example a condom stand, parents could easy have a petition go around and one of them present it to the school board saying that 90% of the parents agree that they don't want a condom stand in the school. Outside of the law, a school board would rarely go against a majority of the parents in a case like this.

A permission slip system for condoms would be almost completely useless. Many parents think they have the "good kid" who would never have sex while he's young. However, if parents are faced with the same choice for ALL students in the school, I'm sure that some would believe that having condoms available for "those other kids" would make things safer when they did have sex.

I don't know why you think "permission slips" are the only way a parent can have any effect on their child's school.

 

[Cheapless Jared]

A permission slip system for condoms would be almost completely useless. Many parents think they have the "good kid" who would never have sex while he's young. However, if parents are faced with the same choice for ALL students in the school, I'm sure that some would believe that having condoms available for "those other kids" would make things safer when they did have sex.

I don't know why you think "permission slips" are the only way a parent can have any effect on their child's school.

This isn't suppose to be offensive, but a permission slip is probably the most stupid thing you could do. I don't need a permission slip to have a relationship, and if they just teach us abstinence, there's not a guarantee that we will actually do it. They just won't tell us what really happens, like premarital baby support is hard as hell. They just say that having sex overall is a sin unless your married. Or something pretty close to that. Anyways, I think it's at the people who have sex's discretion on whether they use a condom or not. I think that no one but those two should have any controll over any type of relationship they have,(that is unless they are parents), because if the schools are involved, it's becomes a huge invasion of privacy. if they honestly interfered with any relationship I had, I'd be pissed. I'm sure that some other people would be the same way.

 

[GwJ]

That, and if the others found out who actually got it signed and got condoms, they'd think they were sluts or sex-crazed people.

 

[Cheapless Jared]

That, and if the others found out who actually got it signed and got condoms, they'd think they were sluts or sex-crazed people.

Definitely either prostitutes or pimps. I don't need a permission slip to have sex! I'll do it when I please!

 

[Narukari]

This isn't suppose to be offensive, but a permission slip is probably the most stupid thing you could do. I don't need a permission slip to have a relationship, and if they just teach us abstinence, there's not a guarantee that we will actually do it. They just won't tell us what really happens, like premarital baby support is hard as hell. They just say that having sex overall is a sin unless your married. Or something pretty close to that. Anyways, I think it's at the people who have sex's discretion on whether they use a condom or not. I think that no one but those two should have any controll over any type of relationship they have,(that is unless they are parents), because if the schools are involved, it's becomes a huge invasion of privacy. if they honestly interfered with any relationship I had, I'd be pissed. I'm sure that some other people would be the same way.

I don't know why I would take offense to this, I'm advocating against the permission slip system.

Having condoms available for students to "discretely" pick up, is not an encouragement from the school to have sex. The school knows that teens are going to have sex and that there is nothing anybody can do about it. So they leave the proper safety precautions available so that the teenager can hopefully make the smart decision and use a condom to avoid some diseases and getting someone pregnant.

Schools are already involved with sex education for almost all kids who attend school. My school made if very clear that they did not advocate having any kind of sexual intercourse at that age. They then explained everything we needed to know about how to be as safe as possible when having sex.

edit: Also, you may say that you don't need a permission slip to have a relationship, but your parents are responsible for your actions until you are 18 years old. I do not believe anyone should be having sex until they have to suffer the consequences of their own actions.

editedit: Another thing I realize about how the permission slip system for condoms would be completely worthless, is that if one person gets their permission slip signed, he/she could distribute condoms to everyone else in the school when they wanted. This would just cause unnessicary paperwork that leads to the same outcome as if there was a condom stand in one of the hallways.

 

[yummynbeefy]

it doesnt matter if you ask me teaching abstinence will do NOTHING whatsoever giving out comdoms would at least make it sure that when they do do it it would be safer

 

[Vorguen]

There are people even if a slight minority who have been positively influenced by abstinence classes.

 

[Skrah]

Teaching abstinence does work. Sure, most of them will most likely still have sex, but it will raise awareness.

 

[w!zard]

teaching abstinence does not work

"What it found is that the teens in these programs were no more likely to delay their first sexual experience, have fewer partners, or use condoms than their peers who didn't have a sex-ed class."
http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/2007/12/19/a-debate-about-teaching-abstinence.html

it's about as effective as doing nothing

 

[Skrah]

Abstinence classes do work.

According to published research, abstinence programs are successful in delaying sexual onset and in helping sexually active teens choose to abstain. In Georgia, for example, teen pregnancy rates have been cut in half, dropping for 11 straight years since the state mandated abstinence education.

Source: http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/07/abstinence-work.html

 

[Vickey]

Teaching abstinence works, but it should be backed up by clear sexual education as well. Handing condoms should be up to the parents or the individual school districts, because it stomps on the rights of the parents. If parents in the community can come to agree with the policies in their school, then there should be no problem with it.

Abstinence classes shouldn't be simply based on teaching children about the immorality of sex. They should be taught about all that sexual education encompasses. Teenagers can buy their own condoms in stores, it is not the school's job to have the children ready for sexual encounters, but to educate them to make the right choices for them.



Sources:

http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAbstracts/ma?f=102282093.html

http://www.aegis.org/conferences/iac/2004/TuOrD1216.html

 

[Skrah]

Abstinence programs offer a holistic approach, teaching teens how to build healthy relationships, increase self-worth and set appropriate boundaries in order to achieve future goals. Abstinence education shares the realities of sexually transmitted diseases and the best way to prevent them. Accurate information about contraception is provided, but always within the context of abstinence as the healthiest choice. The realistic limitations of condoms are shared but without the explicit demonstration and advocacy that characterizes "comprehensive" programs.

So yeah, basically, abstinence programs do not only teach kids that abstinence is the safest way to go, but also teach the ways to be protected while engaging in sexual intercourse, without exaggerating the effectiveness of anticontraceptives.

 

[Vickey]

Abstinence courses are simply sexual education courses that offer an alternative. Schools are the institutions built to educate the youth in America, and both sexual education and abstinence contain much relevant information that needs to be taught to them.

However when giving condoms, you are taking away that choice. Schools are not responsible for anything but the education of children, and they should keep it at that. Giving out condoms to a student is like giving a gun to a criminal, it has no logic. The school is telling you of the problems related to sex with teenage pregnancy and the spreading of STD's, so they hand you a condom to encourage you to have it anyway. Teenagers don't walk around with condoms in their pockets all the time, they will have sex regardless, and having condoms in the school will not prevent any of the problems we are having.